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Author Topic: A few ideas, some sillier than others  (Read 4391 times)

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Warfreak2

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A few ideas, some sillier than others
« on: June 07, 2013, 06:12:14 am »
0

Quagmire, Victory, $6
Worth 2VP per differently named Victory card in the trash.
---
When you gain this, trash a card from your hand.


Convoy, Action/Attack, $5
Gain a card costing up to $7. Each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less.


Hidden Passage, Victory/Reaction, $3
Worth 2VP
---
When you reveal this, +1 Card


Chain Gang, Action, $2
Choose one:
- +1 Card, +1 Buy
- Chain Gang costs $0 this turn
- Trash this. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Action
Play a Chain Gang from your hand, making the same choice (or reveal a hand with no Chain Gangs).


Meteorite, Action, $2
Trash your deck and discard pile, then gain any number of Coppers.
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Asper

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 09:02:38 am »
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Convoy, Action/Attack, $5
Gain a card costing up to $7. Each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less.

"At most 2$ less" confuses me. I'd argue i can gain a card costing 0$ less, as it's "at most 2$" less.
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KingZog3

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 11:29:38 am »
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Hidden Passage, Victory/Reaction, $3
Worth 2VP
---
When you reveal this, +1 Card

There are essentially no cards that would allow you to trigger this on purpose. Crossroads with no VP, or a bunch of various attacks, but really not much.

And the Quagmire idea I've seen many times before, although this one seems a bit more plausible. I might put it at $5 to make it more accessible, since after all you'll have to buy and trash both Duchy and Quagmire at minimum to make this worth it. Would actually be better with Shelters too, which is nice for an atl-VP card.
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DStu

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 11:33:32 am »
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And the Quagmire idea I've seen many times before, although this one seems a bit more plausible. I might put it at $5 to make it more accessible, since after all you'll have to buy and trash both Duchy and Quagmire at minimum to make this worth it. Would actually be better with Shelters too, which is nice for an atl-VP card.

Paying $6 for 4VP is usually worth it, but still someone has at least to invest a Duchy, while the opponent can just follow track...
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pst

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 12:27:01 pm »
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Meteorite, Action, $2
Trash your deck and discard pile, then gain any number of Coppers.

With a big Copper pile that's a nice way to empty a third pile after you've put lots of Gardens on some mat!
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liopoil

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 12:52:00 pm »
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I was thinking that maybe you could:

buy meteorite. Play it, taking the whole copper pile. Go duchy-duke.
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Warfreak2

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 06:16:19 pm »
+1

Some responses:
"At most 2$ less" confuses me. I'd argue i can gain a card costing 0$ less, as it's "at most 2$" less.
Then you'd make the same argument about Saboteur, I suppose, since that's where I got the phrasing from (for consistency): "He trashes that card and may gain a card costing at most $2 less than it." I think it's clear what both cards mean.

There are essentially no cards that would allow you to trigger this on purpose. Crossroads with no VP, or a bunch of various attacks, but really not much.
There are lots of reasons you would reveal cards: Crossroads and Menagerie always reveal your hand, anyway how could you even play a Crossroads both with a Hidden Passage and also no Victory cards? Diggers (Rebuild, Scrying Pool, Golem, Loan, Venture, &c.) and filterers (Wandering Minstrel, Scout, Ironmonger, &c.) usually reveal cards for accountability, Wishing Well/Mystic too for obvious reasons, and you mentioned attacks (Cutpurse is the obvious one, Pillage is similar, but Rabble/Fortune Teller/Oracle/Spy/Scrying Pool again, Saboteur/Knights/Rogue/Pirate Ship/Thief/Noble Brigand, all cause you to reveal cards). There are more that don't fit into those categories - Harvest and Tribute, for example.

Tunnel occasionally has the problem that there's no discarding on the board, but it still matters because it's $3 for 2VP, that's easy to hit in the endgame and more cost effective than Duchy if you have the buys, and alt VP being available at all makes engines more viable. I think gaining a Gold when you discard it is better than drawing a card when you reveal it, but not strictly better.

Quote
And the Quagmire idea I've seen many times before, although this one seems a bit more plausible. I might put it at $5 to make it more accessible, since after all you'll have to buy and trash both Duchy and Quagmire at minimum to make this worth it. Would actually be better with Shelters too, which is nice for an atl-VP card.
In a typical game you will trash Estate and Duchy, and then it's $6 for 4VP, again better value than Duchy. Of course you have to buy and trash a Duchy, but you do that after getting as many as you can, so that you don't give your opponent a free ride. That means there could be a race for them while they are still worth only 2VP, because if you let your opponent piledrive them, they can make 56VP+. But if they split evenly or even 5/3, there's not much incentive to then trash a Duchy, so it's a Prisoners' Dilemma.

It's also intended as a counter to Rebuild, because let's face it, there aren't enough of those. At $5 I think it would actually help the Rebuild player more.

buy meteorite. Play it, taking the whole copper pile. Go duchy-duke.
This sort of thing is potentially a strong strategy with a clear first-player advantage, which is what makes this is one of the sillier cards. Gardens is a far better candidate, though - you won't be hitting $5 much after your next reshuffle. Either way it depends a lot on just how many Coppers you're playing with.

It's meant to fulfill either the role of Instant Chapel (play in the opening, take only enough Coppers to build up your deck), or Instant Three-Pile (end the game by taking ALL THE COPPERS). For both purposes it's important to note that it trashes your deck and discard pile, but not your hand; you can't trash away to a deck any smaller than what you drew with the Meteorite (and the Meteorite sticks around as a junk card, making Golem the worst card on the board), and conversely if you draw all your VP cards into your hand (Scout combo! I think that was the joke when I thought it up), they are safe.

But you are right, there are situations in which you do want to take all the Coppers at the beginning of the game. It is a silly card, after all (-: but I think in most games, it would not be particularly ridiculous.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 06:31:02 pm by Warfreak2 »
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SirPeebles

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 06:27:57 pm »
+3

*looks at hand*

Village, Masquerade, Possession, Meteorite, Scout
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Warfreak2

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 06:36:56 pm »
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Quagmire trashes a card from your hand when you gain it, not when you buy it. That potentially means your opponent can Ambassador you five Quagmires in a turn. However, the pin is strictly limited by the size of the Quagmire pile, and you won't be too sad about trashing your Province to it. I thought this would be OK.
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ashersky

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2013, 12:56:10 am »
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buy meteorite. Play it, taking the whole copper pile. Go duchy-duke.
This sort of thing is potentially a strong strategy with a clear first-player advantage, which is what makes this is one of the sillier cards. Gardens is a far better candidate, though - you won't be hitting $5 much after your next reshuffle. Either way it depends a lot on just how many Coppers you're playing with.

It's meant to fulfill either the role of Instant Chapel (play in the opening, take only enough Coppers to build up your deck), or Instant Three-Pile (end the game by taking ALL THE COPPERS). For both purposes it's important to note that it trashes your deck and discard pile, but not your hand; you can't trash away to a deck any smaller than what you drew with the Meteorite (and the Meteorite sticks around as a junk card, making Golem the worst card on the board), and conversely if you draw all your VP cards into your hand (Scout combo! I think that was the joke when I thought it up), they are safe.

But you are right, there are situations in which you do want to take all the Coppers at the beginning of the game. It is a silly card, after all (-: but I think in most games, it would not be particularly ridiculous.

I think liopoil's point was the copper pile is so big, you don't hit your next reshuffle before buying all Duchys and Dukes available.

Militia really screws up this plan, though.
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eHalcyon

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2013, 01:04:35 am »
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You would hit the reshuffle unless the opponent takes some Duchies/Dukes too.  Or if you're playing with an extra big Copper pile, like base+Intrigue combined.  But it's still strong.
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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2013, 01:45:59 am »
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*looks at hand*

Village, Masquerade, Possession, Meteorite, Scout
??
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2013, 11:43:53 am »
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*looks at hand*

Village, Masquerade, Possession, Meteorite, Scout
??

You play the Village, Masquerade your opponent the Meteorite, Possess them, and then play the Meteorite on their turn, which fails to permanently trash their deck, and makes you gain all the Coppers. Presumably, this helps you in some unspecified way.
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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2013, 11:47:25 am »
0

*looks at hand*

Village, Masquerade, Possession, Meteorite, Scout
??

I would have presumed:

You can play Meteorite to trash the rest of your deck.  Now your entire remaining deck is just powerful cards.  Most turns, you can play Scout, Village, Masquerade and Possession!  Scout being there might be a joke, or it might just be an actual suggestion on keeping the green out of your future hands or something, though I doubt it would work very well.  I don't know.
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Grujah

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2013, 11:53:38 am »
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Meteorite suggestion: max amount that can only take is half of the copper pile. It is still more powerful if you play it first (1p advantage) but less so.
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Awaclus

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2013, 02:17:25 pm »
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Hidden Passage, Victory/Reaction, $3
Worth 2VP
---
When you reveal this, +1 Card
When you reveal this, you may reveal this. If you don't, +1 Card.

[EDIT: My version] Doesn't work the way it's supposed, but at least it's silly.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 02:21:16 pm by Awaclus »
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Warfreak2

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2013, 02:53:16 pm »
+1

When you reveal this, you may reveal this. If you don't, +1 Card.
When you reveal this, you may reveal this. If you don't, well OK, see if I care.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 02:58:13 pm by Warfreak2 »
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Asper

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Re: A few ideas, some sillier than others
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2013, 03:19:30 pm »
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*looks at hand*

Village, Masquerade, Possession, Meteorite, Scout
??

I would have presumed:

You can play Meteorite to trash the rest of your deck.  Now your entire remaining deck is just powerful cards.  Most turns, you can play Scout, Village, Masquerade and Possession!  Scout being there might be a joke, or it might just be an actual suggestion on keeping the green out of your future hands or something, though I doubt it would work very well.  I don't know.

You could pass Scout with Masquerade, though that would actually harm your Possession.
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