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Author Topic: Preview #4: Butcher  (Read 52301 times)

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Slyfox

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2013, 10:55:46 am »
0

Oh, here is a fun trick.  Butcher a copper, spend one coin token.  Gain a card costing 1 coin, which is no card in most kingdoms.   So, if you draw it without a better target, you can still trash out a copper and get a coin token out of the deal.  Might not be the right play in all cases, but might make sense in some cases.

Won't work. The wording is 'up to' which there are cards which cost up to $1, namely copper.

Yep, you're right.  My bad.  I didn't read it closely enough.  I was thinking it was more like a variable Upgrade/Remake, but it is not.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 11:02:53 am by Slyfox »
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philosophyguy

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2013, 10:56:37 am »
0

Get an early Province. Butcher it for coins. You're draining the Province pile and simultaneously building up coins for a massive remodel of (less than $5)->Province.  Butcher provides a really interesting form of endgame acceleration.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2013, 10:57:05 am »
+1

Great card! You can swap out curses for copper and gain two coin tokens to save for latter. Turn estates into silvers and save a token or turn estates into a decent $2 card. This seems like a nice gainer card to me.

Ooh, Estate into Silver plus a token.  This will be really nice when you only wanted to Remodel up $1 anyhow, which is fairly common.
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DG

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2013, 10:57:16 am »
0

A chandler may have been a trader of candlesticks rather than the maker.

The butcher seems more complicated than a remodel and it might gives you more choice but it might be easier to play due to the flexibility. It operates under far less constraints than remodel. It might be particularly good when trashing an estate for a useful 2 cost card with the coins held over for a big purchase.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2013, 10:59:06 am »
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I also love the fact that you don't have to trash anything, so if you somehow get your deck thinned enough or all your good cards are in your hand, you can still gain two coin tokens.
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WheresMyElephant

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2013, 10:59:25 am »
0

Oh, here is a fun trick.  Butcher a copper, spend one coin token.  Gain a card costing 1 coin, which is no card in most kingdoms.   So, if you draw it without a better target, you can still trash out a copper and get a coin token out of the deal.  Might not be the right play in all cases, but might make sense in some cases.

You'd gain a card costing up to $1.  So probably just your Copper again, unless you're really eyeing a Ruin.
Although I'm a little surprised Donald X felt the need to take this option out,  even when the card text was so long already. It's not THAT strong of an option (pretty clearly weaker than Junk Dealer or even Upgrade trashing, unless coin tokens are way stronger than I think) and it does carry significant opportunity cost. Maybe there's some nasty interaction I'm not seeing?
I also love the fact that you don't have to trash anything, so if you somehow get your deck thinned enough or all your good cards are in your hand, you can still gain two coin tokens.
Yeah this is nice design. I would have been disappointed if there weren't a Coin token "Terminal Silver" here, but blending it with a Remodel variant is brilliant, especially in an expansion that has room for so few cards.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 11:04:37 am by WheresMyElephant »
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ipofanes

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2013, 11:00:02 am »
0

I'll be taking another look at Transmutes if there are desirable Potion cards in play.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2013, 11:00:58 am »
0

It's Candlestick Maker, and it's one of the $2 cards.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2013, 11:02:46 am »
0

Get an early Province. Butcher it for coins. You're draining the Province pile and simultaneously building up coins for a massive remodel of (less than $5)->Province.  Butcher provides a really interesting form of endgame acceleration.

You get two coin tokens when you play the butcher but you do not get coin tokens per 1$ the trashed card costs, you just remodel the card and add the amount of coin tokens you pay to the maximum cost.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2013, 11:03:01 am »
0

It's Candlestick Maker, and it's one of the $2 cards.

And, how do you know this?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2013, 11:06:46 am »
+2

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Quote from: michaeljb
Quote from: ColtsFan76
Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.

My question is, will it be called "candlestick maker" to fit with the silly rhyme, or will it be "chandler" to fit with what they were actually called?

I'll be there for you....
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Kirian

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2013, 11:11:19 am »
+3

It's Candlestick Maker, and it's one of the $2 cards.

And, how do you know this?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5806.msg251179#msg251179

That is really, really straining things.  Especially given there's one that doesn't fit.
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zporiri

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2013, 11:12:43 am »
0

you can trash a copper with this and pay one token and gain nothing (barring poor house isn't in the kingdom), then the next time you play it it's an expand. trashing coppers one at a time is slow (i.e. develop) but having an expand is pretty nice. or you turn a 4 into a 5 and have an expand the next time.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2013, 11:13:13 am »
0

Nobody has mentioned that this is a decent Copper trasher. Estate->Silver leaves you an extra token, with which you can Copper->Silver. Though it may often be better to save those coin tokens, especially if there is a better treasure trasher available.
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Kirian

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2013, 11:15:09 am »
0

you can trash a copper with this and pay one token and gain nothing (barring poor house isn't in the kingdom), then the next time you play it it's an expand. trashing coppers one at a time is slow (i.e. develop) but having an expand is pretty nice. or you turn a 4 into a 5 and have an expand the next time.

As noted above, since it says "up to," you cannot dump a copper and gain nothing.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2013, 11:15:44 am »
0

Nobody has mentioned that this is a decent Copper trasher. Estate->Silver leaves you an extra token, with which you can Copper->Silver. Though it may often be better to save those coin tokens, especially if there is a better treasure trasher available.

Chances are saving the coin tokens are better than trashing your coppers, but trashing your ruins and curses into coppers sounds like a plan while building up your coin economy. Of all the cards previewed so far, this is one I am looking forward to playing with the most.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2013, 11:15:51 am »
0

Oh, here is a fun trick.  Butcher a copper, spend one coin token.  Gain a card costing 1 coin, which is no card in most kingdoms.   So, if you draw it without a better target, you can still trash out a copper and get a coin token out of the deal.  Might not be the right play in all cases, but might make sense in some cases.

You'd gain a card costing up to $1.  So probably just your Copper again, unless you're really eyeing a Ruin.
Although I'm a little surprised Donald X felt the need to take this option out,  even when the card text was so long already. It's not THAT strong of an option (pretty clearly weaker than Junk Dealer or even Upgrade trashing, unless coin tokens are way stronger than I think) and it does carry significant opportunity cost. Maybe there's some nasty interaction I'm not seeing?
I also love the fact that you don't have to trash anything, so if you somehow get your deck thinned enough or all your good cards are in your hand, you can still gain two coin tokens.
Yeah this is nice design. I would have been disappointed if there weren't a Coin token "Terminal Silver" here, but blending it with a Remodel variant is brilliant, especially in an expansion that has room for so few cards.

It would be more work to keep the option in, because he would have to say "exactly" rather than "up to". That would be 2 extra characters!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2013, 11:19:56 am »
0

It's Candlestick Maker, and it's one of the $2 cards.

And, how do you know this?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5806.msg251179#msg251179

That is really, really straining things.  Especially given there's one that doesn't fit.

Ha ha! What's more likely? That Butcher, Baker, and Doctor coincidentally work out exactly right, including their costs? Or that Journeyman was a last-minute name change/card swap? There's skepticism, and then there's being obtuse.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2013, 11:27:11 am »
+2

Fun quote from BGG:

Quote
This is one I would definitely buy when Curses are in play. Exchanging a Curse for an Estate is worth 2 Victory points!!

Great card.

I just saw another one plotting to spend five coin tokens for a Mint to avoid to on-buy penalty.  Man, I always sort of thought the "penalty" was the primary reason to get a Mint.
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AJD

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2013, 11:27:51 am »
+1

Butcher it for coins.

I'm pleased that we've decided that Butcher is to be considered a verb, like Remodel and Expand and so on.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2013, 11:28:34 am »
0

Lastfootnote, this is the first I've seen of the BA, BU, CM, and DO.  Where did those come from?
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philosophyguy

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2013, 11:28:46 am »
0

Get an early Province. Butcher it for coins. You're draining the Province pile and simultaneously building up coins for a massive remodel of (less than $5)->Province.  Butcher provides a really interesting form of endgame acceleration.

You get two coin tokens when you play the butcher but you do not get coin tokens per 1$ the trashed card costs, you just remodel the card and add the amount of coin tokens you pay to the maximum cost.

Right. You Butcher Province->Province, which results in your deck being the same, the Province pile being one less, and you having an extra $2 in coins. Next time, you can Butcher $4->Province. Or, you can drain another Province, and the third Butcher play upgrades a $2 (!) to an Province.

This is like a Salvager with a Remodel effect that you can save up. That's massive for endgame acceleration.
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ipofanes

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2013, 11:29:29 am »
0

Butcher it for coins.

I'm pleased that we've decided that Butcher is to be considered a verb, like Remodel and Expand and so on.

But butcher is a verb in the English language already.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2013, 11:31:25 am »
+1

Butcher it for coins.

I'm pleased that we've decided that Butcher is to be considered a verb, like Remodel and Expand and so on.

But butcher is a verb in the English language already.

It's easy to butcher the English language regardless.
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