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Author Topic: Preview #4: Butcher  (Read 93853 times)

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theory

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Preview #4: Butcher
« on: June 06, 2013, 10:12:05 am »
+11



King Casimir only lived to be 60. Did he ever go bald? The wikipedia article doesn't say. If so though that would be in line with the 4th theme in Guilds: bald people. And one of those bald people is Butcher.

Butcher also fits the 5th theme of Guilds, which is, wordy cards. Take two coin tokens, you may trash a card, something something, gain a card, something something, man I'll just buy one, I'll figure out what it does when I play it. Butcher is a Remodel that you spend coin tokens to pump up. With enough coin tokens you can go straight from Curse to Colony. You can also just trade a card in for something at the same cost or less, while keeping the two coin tokens for later. There are a lot of ways you can go.

Butcher gives you a special use for coin tokens. That's not a theme of the set, that's just Butcher. It provides some coin tokens itself, so it's not like you have to have another Guilds card with it to make it do its thing. It's all been taken care of.
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brokoli

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 10:13:41 am »
+4

Guilds still have Ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly art. Sorry.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:14:50 am by brokoli »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 10:13:50 am »
0

So it's all optional after all.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 10:14:57 am »
+2

Ugly. Ugly. Ugly. Ugly art. Sorry.

It's a butcher.  They carve up murdered creatures for a living.
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jupiter

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 10:15:50 am »
+2

For those who can't read it:
Butcher - Action - 5
Take 2 Coin tokens. You may trash a card from your hand and then pay any number of Coin tokens. If you did trash a card, gain a card with a cost of the trashed card plus the number of Coin tokens you paid.
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ipofanes

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 10:16:13 am »
0

Slager!

Find edge cases where UpdateRemodel is better.

mumble mumble artwork mumble mumble the way he holds the hatchet mumble mumble
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:46:41 am by ipofanes »
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DStu

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 10:16:31 am »
+1

Remodel for $5 whose virtual +$2 can be saved AND increased by other coin tokens.  Sounds strong to me, especially if you have a Baker or something else to get tokens from.
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werothegreat

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 10:16:38 am »
0

Baker was whimsically anime.  Butcher is hella freaky.  Well played, Lynell Ingram - well played.
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 10:16:42 am »
0

I really like the card names.  We've got Butcher, Baker, Doctor and Journeyman thus far.  These are all in line with the theme of Guilds that could be formed within a Kingdom.  Props to Donald for that aspect of the expansion.
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massenburger

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 10:17:20 am »
0

Guilds still have Ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly art. Sorry.

I thought the artwork for Doctor was pretty good. Also, if you're buying Dominion for the card art, you're bound to be disappointed. Just set your expectations as low as they can go, that way you'll be pleasantly satisfied at worst.
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 10:17:44 am »
+4

Guilds still have Ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly art. Sorry.

I've tried to stop looking at the art.  It's not like I look at it on other sets.

Also, did anyone else get halfway through the text of the card before getting a headache?  There must be a better wording for this.
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 10:17:47 am »
+1

Another interesting card.  I suppose if you can play it frequently enough, you can upgrade some cards pretty dramatically.  Might be a little slow without trashing/some engine.

Seems like a decent HP+X terminal at first glance.  You can trash Estates or Silver in to HPs, and the tokens can of course be saved and cashed in later on.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:56:42 am by jsh357 »
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 10:18:46 am »
0

Find edge cases where Update is better.
Quote from: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Update
There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page.

compared to remodel, I don't see any edge-cases.  It's a non-mandatory Remodel if you spend your tokens directly, and there is nothing that can prevent you from gaining them.
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 10:18:52 am »
0

So it's all optional after all.

It's not all optional. If you trash a card you have to gain another card. (And you have to gain the 2 coin tokens too, but it's never an advantage not to gain those).
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Archetype

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 10:20:02 am »
+1

Looks like eHalc was right!

It seems alright without any other Coin Token Gainers in the kingdom, but this + Baker could be potentially powerful.
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 10:20:27 am »
0

My prediction I posted on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12505363#12505363

Quote from: michaeljb
Quote from: ColtsFan76
Butcher and baker.  We are getting a candlestick maker, right?

That will be the one that lets you overpay to buy it, turning each overpaid coin into a coin token.
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sherwinpr

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2013, 10:21:08 am »
0

Guilds still have Ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly art. Sorry.

I've tried to stop looking at the art.  It's not like I look at it on other sets.

Also, did anyone else get halfway through the text of the card before getting a headache?  There must be a better wording for this.

The wording "With a cost of up to..." sounds very strange to me.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2013, 10:21:23 am »
0

Remodel for $5 whose virtual +$2 can be saved AND increased by other coin tokens.  Sounds strong to me, especially if you have a Baker or something else to get tokens from.

First instinct is that this will be very strong if there's another coin-taker out there; a little strong if there isn't. Just replacing a card with a same-cost card and getting 2 coins will be great. How often do we use Remodel or even Expand to replace Province with Province?
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brokoli

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2013, 10:21:36 am »
0

Cornucopia, Seaside, Hinterlands and DA were all pretty good I think. In guilds we come back to the kind of art in intrigue and base.
I thought the artwork for Doctor was pretty good.
Well, I think Journeyman is fine but doctor is strange...

Weird art on this card.

I presume that is half of the patient's face we can see near the bottom left of the picture.... then moving up the left hand side of the image we see something that looks vaguely like a limp left hand lying on a dark green sheet.... then we see.... what? A knee sticking up under the sheet...? Yes it is a knee, let's just stick with that shall we...?

.... and the doctor is saying, "I'll just grind up a few more of these little blue pills for you"....
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:27:54 am by brokoli »
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2013, 10:21:47 am »
0

So does butcher affect the setup the same was as baker does? I guess not. So the setup-effect stacks with more cards like baker?
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2013, 10:25:52 am »
0

If you think about it, you juet need one more coin token to spend with Butcher and its already as good as expand.
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shark_bait

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2013, 10:26:17 am »
+3

I like that you can swap out unused cards like Lookout/Ambassador/Chapel that have served their early game purpose while still keeping the coin tokens.  I think that is a very powerful aspect of the card;  the ability to change your deck while still acquiring money from the card if you don't need to upgrade the cost.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 03:21:32 pm by shark_bait »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2013, 10:26:25 am »
+1

So does butcher affect the setup the same was as baker does? I guess not. So the setup-effect stacks with more cards like baker?

Butcher does not affect the setup
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2013, 10:29:15 am »
+1

King Court + Butcher and with the 3rd butcher you trash your estate, you use your 6 tokens and you gain a Province !
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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2013, 10:29:18 am »
0

Slager!

Find edge cases where Update is better.

mumble mumble artwork mumble mumble the way he holds the hatchet mumble mumble

Assuming you meant Upgrade:  Upgrade is a cantrip.  So many times that will be better.
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