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Author Topic: Preview #4: Butcher  (Read 57890 times)

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werothegreat

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #175 on: June 07, 2013, 04:10:43 pm »
+4




AHHHHHHHH.... FRESH MEAT
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shMerker

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #176 on: June 07, 2013, 04:17:51 pm »
0

Pretty close. If Iso had guilds, this would be the art for Butcher for sure.

I'm pretty sure Iso did have Guilds for playtesting, so there was art even if it wasn't visible to the public.
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Kirian

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #177 on: June 07, 2013, 11:09:41 pm »
0

I wonder if any players will hesitate to butcher, say, a Noble Brigand.  A Jester?  The Ambassador?  Maybe an entire Village?

Or Princess, or Harem.

Or, of course, Scout.  No one wants to see that dude harmed.
Great, Dominion meet cannibalism.
Butchering a Princess seems more logical than Butchering inanimate objects.

Which in turn is more logical than butchering things which aren't objects at all (I guess they aren't things either). How do you butcher an expand? What is 'an expand'? But eh, who cares.

"To butcher" can also mean to mess something up horribly.  Like, I really butchered that expansion job by expanding my Colony into an Estate.
Yes, but this entirely misses the point. Butchering an expansion - fine. Butchering an expand - wuzuhuh?

Yes, but you can take Butchering a verb to be butchering the process of performing the action corresponding to that verb.

In other words, someone butchered the naming of this card, and additionally butchered the English language in going so.
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Fuu

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #178 on: June 08, 2013, 12:21:40 am »
0




AHHHHHHHH.... FRESH MEAT

Man, Butcher is overpowered.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #179 on: June 09, 2013, 05:54:59 pm »
0

I wonder if any players will hesitate to butcher, say, a Noble Brigand.  A Jester?  The Ambassador?  Maybe an entire Village?

Or Princess, or Harem.

Or, of course, Scout.  No one wants to see that dude harmed.
Great, Dominion meet cannibalism.
Butchering a Princess seems more logical than Butchering inanimate objects.

Which in turn is more logical than butchering things which aren't objects at all (I guess they aren't things either). How do you butcher an expand? What is 'an expand'? But eh, who cares.

"To butcher" can also mean to mess something up horribly.  Like, I really butchered that expansion job by expanding my Colony into an Estate.
Yes, but this entirely misses the point. Butchering an expansion - fine. Butchering an expand - wuzuhuh?

Yes, but you can take Butchering a verb to be butchering the process of performing the action corresponding to that verb.

In other words, someone butchered the naming of this card, and additionally butchered the English language in going so.

Man, that just means this card name works on a metalevel.  DXV is, like, way over our heads, dude.  He sees the whole forest while we're just here pondering bark on trees.
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ipofanes

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #180 on: June 10, 2013, 03:53:42 am »
0

He sees forests where we see treeses. And bark up the wrong oneses.
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joel88s

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #181 on: June 10, 2013, 04:22:30 pm »
0

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

This is great illustration of why German is such a pain to learn. Anyone (non-German) want to memorize these for tomorrow and try to remember which is which?!
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Qvist

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #182 on: June 10, 2013, 04:27:19 pm »
0

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

This is great illustration of why German is such a pain to learn. Anyone (non-German) want to memorize these for tomorrow and try to remember which is which?!

Hm, German is a hard language to learn, but not being able to remember which one is which has nothing to do about the language. I'm German and I can't remember which one is which either.

GendoIkari

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #183 on: June 10, 2013, 04:42:58 pm »
0

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

This is great illustration of why German is such a pain to learn. Anyone (non-German) want to memorize these for tomorrow and try to remember which is which?!

Hm, German is a hard language to learn, but not being able to remember which one is which has nothing to do about the language. I'm German and I can't remember which one is which either.

I think it has a lot to do with the language... not sure why Joel limited his challenge to non-German speakers... seems the trick is that all 6 of them have very similar-sounding names, much more so than their English counterparts.
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Kirian

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #184 on: June 10, 2013, 04:49:29 pm »
+4

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

And now every time I play Develop, I will think of electron configurations.
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markusin

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #185 on: June 10, 2013, 05:29:03 pm »
+1

It's cool how the trashing option for Butcher is not mandatory, allowing this card to simply be the terminal silver's-worth-of-coin-tokens card.

As cool as it sounds to be able to turn an Estate or even a Copper into a Province, it's actually a pretty weak use of Butcher since you have the option of simply spending your coin tokens during your buy phase. Butcher trashing is good in the same situations as Remodel and Salvager trashing, not Altar trashing. The strength of Remodel and Salvager is to get value out of your good cards to get even better cards. If you use Butcher to trash a Copper and spend 8 coin tokens to get a Province in return, you essentially just played a Trade Route that gave 0$ coins.

Consider another example, where you have a hand of Copper-Copper-Copper-Butcher-Gold and you have 6 coin tokens. You play Butcher and gain 2 more coin tokens. Now, if you trash a Copper to gain Province with the 8 coin tokens, you can proceed to buy a Duchy during the buy phase, but if you trash the Gold and spend the 2  coin tokens to get a Province in return, you can use the remaining 6 coin tokens with the Coppers to buy a second Province.

I'm curious to know how much complexity coin tokens themselves bring into the game. They smooth out buys, possibly leading to LESS hesitation when say you have 6$, but you really want a 5$ card. I feel like the complexity involved in Guilds has to do more with allowing for more optimization, rather than Dark Ages which is complex based on the actual strategic choices and card interactions available in it.

Edit: I open the post saying how Butcher is at least a terminal coin-token silver, then forget that it's a coin-token silver when comparing it to Trade Route. Classic. You know, this card sort of solves the Remodel problem of what to do with it in the early game.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 01:15:41 am by markusin »
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Warfreak2

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #186 on: June 10, 2013, 06:55:33 pm »
0

I suspect that Copper->Province &c. will be useful in Coin token engines with no +buy.
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ftl

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #187 on: June 10, 2013, 07:16:29 pm »
0

I'm skeptical that coin token engines with no +buy are going to be very good in general. I mean, if you're using coin tokens as your primary source of income, they're not any better than just straight-up virtual money, right?

Or maybe I'm not understanding how you intend for a coin token engine to work. Can you give an example of what you mean by that?

[edit]Ohh, I get it, nevermind. You can use "Butcher Copper into Something" as a virtual +Buy, instead of just buying the Something. Got it. [/edit]
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bedlam

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #188 on: July 07, 2013, 07:10:21 pm »
0

I played a kingdom yesterday with Butcher, Peddler, Feodom, Horse Traders, Crossroads, etc. It was a very interesting mix where you could butcher a feodom into silvers and gain a feodom right back, or get a cheap peddler with plus buy and then butcher it into a province. A very fun kingdom to play. The rest of the kingdom was forgetable though. What cards do you think would add to the fun? Scout?
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Synthesizer

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #189 on: July 29, 2013, 05:59:05 am »
0

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

And now every time I play Develop, I will think of electron configurations.

I love this forum. I don't remember any I've visited where someone would actually get this joke, let alone where somebody else posts it! +1 for you!
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #190 on: July 29, 2013, 03:19:52 pm »
0

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

And now every time I play Develop, I will think of electron configurations.

I love this forum. I don't remember any I've visited where someone would actually get this joke, let alone where somebody else posts it! +1 for you!

It's not really a joke, is it?
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Synthesizer

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #191 on: July 31, 2013, 03:56:58 am »
0

this will probably be the first remodel variant which in the german version has not ***bau in its name

remodel - umbau
upgrade - anbau
rebuild - neubau
remake - nachbau
develop - aufbau
expand - ausbau
butcher - Metzger/Fleischer/Schlachter?

And now every time I play Develop, I will think of electron configurations.

I love this forum. I don't remember any I've visited where someone would actually get this joke, let alone where somebody else posts it! +1 for you!

It's not really a joke, is it?

typical thoughts:
Quote
de·vel·op  [dih-vel-uhp]  Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to bring out the capabilities or possibilities of; bring to a more advanced or effective state: to develop natural resources; to develop one's musical talent.
2.
to cause to grow or expand: to develop one's muscles.
3.
to elaborate or expand in detail: to develop a theory.
4.
to bring into being or activity; generate; evolve.
5.
Drafting. to transfer the details of (a more or less two-dimensional design, pattern, or the like) from one surface, especially one that is prismatic or cylindrical, onto another, usually planar, in such a way that the distances between points remain the same.

and/or

Quote
German to English:
Aufbau:
composition ; construction ; building ; arrangement ; classification ; disposition ; ranging ; position ; marshalling ; superstructure ; premises ; edifice ; structure ; lot ; textile ; fabric ; cloth

as opposed to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aufbau_principle
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SirPeebles

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Re: Preview #4: Butcher
« Reply #192 on: July 31, 2013, 11:39:40 pm »
0

But how is that a joke?  It's just the same word being used in the same way.  Or am I still missing something?
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