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Author Topic: roguelike games  (Read 272843 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #900 on: June 10, 2015, 02:45:46 pm »
+1

The game reminds me a lot of Spelunky, but less vicious.

Wait until you play as Aria.
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #901 on: June 10, 2015, 06:07:32 pm »
+3

That was not so much a comment about Necrodancer as it is a comment about Spelunky, the most rage-inducing game I have ever played.

Most games, Necrodancer included, throw increasingly hard stuff at you, and you try to survive despite the difficulty.

Spelunky gives you a level, a simple objective, and grins wickedly as it watches you kill yourself against your best judgment. Again, and again, and again.
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Grujah

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #902 on: June 11, 2015, 07:26:30 am »
+1

This is only really a roguelike in the way that XCom is, but Massive Chalice is out now. I backed it on Kickstarter and am really enjoying it. It's apparently free if you have XBox Gold, but I've been playing the Steam iteration.


Dang, I like it.
The tact-based combat part is fine but the managing of kingdom part is GENIUS.
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Jorbles

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #903 on: June 11, 2015, 12:58:35 pm »
+2

This is only really a roguelike in the way that XCom is, but Massive Chalice is out now. I backed it on Kickstarter and am really enjoying it. It's apparently free if you have XBox Gold, but I've been playing the Steam iteration.


Dang, I like it.
The tact-based combat part is fine but the managing of kingdom part is GENIUS.

I know! I'm glad you like it! If I had one complaint it's that it doesn't really explain how anything works in much detail and you really have to learn just by making mistakes and figuring things out (this is especially true with the kingdom management decisions), but I also really like that I just have to learn how to do things by making mistakes and diving in. The first time I played, I quickly realized that I hadn't built enough Keeps to support the hero population you need for running missions, when I had about 5 heroes who were all 50+ in my vanguard and no people old enough to take over for them when they died. Some years after realizing this, but not enough time to rectify this problem, I had to run a mission with only two decrepit senior citizens (who died) and then I had no heroes for 4 or 5 years in sight. It was a disaster, but it was a funny disaster.

The next time I played I had enough people, but I somehow quickly married all the Caberjacks (I think I only started with 1 or 2) into marriages where no Caberjacks would be born and had a band of heroes who had absolutely no tanks. We were all Hunter/Alchemist variants so every fight just involved me sniping at the enemy endlessly to win it. Which worked, but was a weird situation I'd put myself in. (I eventually lost my first Keep attack and restarted to my current game.)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 01:00:12 pm by Jorbles »
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #904 on: June 11, 2015, 10:52:32 pm »
+5

I take back what I said about Red Dragons, Red Dragons are fine, why did I ever complain about them. I hate Goblins Spiders Black Bats now.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 12:07:00 am by pacovf »
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #905 on: June 13, 2015, 04:14:03 pm »
+4

Dat Final Boss... was cool. Zone 4 was tough as nails though. Getting a crossbow really helps.

The Golden Lute is pretty busted. You don't realize it quite as much during the final boss because everything is so damn confusing, but then you try Melody and it's just crazy. I would have completed an all-zone run on my third try with her, if it weren't for the "you have to know what you are supposed to do or else you die" final boss.

And I can confirm now that no other song was as good as 1-2... although Konga Conga Kappa was similarly perfect.

EDIT: I've unlocked Aria... hahaha she's completely ridiculous. And she's not even the hardest thing the game has to offer! The devs are sadists.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 09:19:55 pm by pacovf »
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Grujah

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #906 on: June 13, 2015, 06:50:07 pm »
+1

I've just made a pretty dump move in Chalice. I was in combat, and right of the bat there are 3-4 lapses at spawn. So, I take my archer with Piercing Bow to take two of them. I forget that lapses explode on death, so they stun my whole team. Including my 2 exploding-armor wearing Alchemists. It was the start of the mission and they were all grouped. Than Exploding Armor started kicking in. And kicking in. So, I killed almost the whole team on turn 1. :D

OTOH, I've found out that Explosive Armor and Lifeleech Sponge are not fair together.
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Titandrake

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #907 on: June 13, 2015, 09:44:36 pm »
+2

Beat Mega Satan!

A dice room re-rolled me into Knife, Loki's Horn, and (annoyingly) Tiny Planet. I didn't bother figuring out how to aim my Knife and went full melee attacks. Had 10 red hearts, Wafer, 3 Pretty Flies, and a 2 of Hearts card going into the final fight. I facetanked most of the attacks and ended at 5 hearts left, with Wafer and using 2 of Hearts at the right time, so not the most impressive win.
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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #908 on: June 13, 2015, 10:39:09 pm »
+2

Has anybody ever tried Sil? I've been playing it a lot lately.

It's a lord of the rings themed roguelike with a really tight design. It fixes a lot of the things I dislike about crawl. Some unusual things are:
—No stat gain or hp gain as you level up.
—Extremely transparent combat system. You know exactly how much damage your weapon does, how likely you are to hit, etc.
—Extremely few escape options. If you are in trouble, you can't just read a tele scroll like in crawl.
—Smarter AI, with an interesting morale system.
—A lot of interesting mechanics with light and dark. You start out with a light radius of 1, and of course you want to increase that as fast as possible.

Also the skill and experience system is really unique and fun. Tons of options are available; apparently even a totally pacifist run is possible.

Normally I can't get into a game with ASCII graphics, but this one really hooked me.
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AHoppy

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #909 on: June 13, 2015, 11:36:49 pm »
+2

Spelunky gives you a level, a simple objective, and grins wickedly as it watches you kill yourself against your best judgment. Again, and again, and again.
Oh Spelunky... I've sunk way too much time into that game to only have completed it once...

pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #910 on: June 14, 2015, 12:04:11 am »
+3

Spelunky gives you a level, a simple objective, and grins wickedly as it watches you kill yourself against your best judgment. Again, and again, and again.
Oh Spelunky... I've sunk way too much time into that game to only have completed it once...

Oh Spelunky... I've sunk way too much time into that game to only have reached Zone 3 once... :P Number one case of death: "I'll just go get that one gem before heading out, should be easy enough...".

I'm tempted to give Aria's soundtrack to some other character, just so that I get to actually listen to it. So. Metal.
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AHoppy

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #911 on: June 14, 2015, 09:06:21 am »
+2

I completed or on the classic one, if that makes a difference. But yeah, I think I've found after zone one it's best to ignore treasure...

pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #912 on: June 16, 2015, 08:31:26 pm »
+2

Some questions about Necrodancer:

-Miner's Cap: Is it a trap? It looks like a trap. Not being able to dig to skip a beat hurts a lot, even with a weapon with a good area of effect.
-Ring of Phasing: I've gotten it a couple of times with the dagger of phasing just for the sake of trying the combo. In theory, you should be immortal in standard levels. In practice, I never last long. Is it just because I suck or is it because it's not as good as it sounds?
-Is there any reliable way for Eli to beat King Konga without suffering massive amounts of damage?
-What sort of items do you look for? I tend to go for a good rapier, an offensive ring, anti-ooze boots, and the best armour I come across, but will usually settle for whatever else I can get.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #913 on: June 16, 2015, 11:52:57 pm »
+2

Some questions about Necrodancer:

-Miner's Cap: Is it a trap? It looks like a trap. Not being able to dig to skip a beat hurts a lot, even with a weapon with a good area of effect.
-Ring of Phasing: I've gotten it a couple of times with the dagger of phasing just for the sake of trying the combo. In theory, you should be immortal in standard levels. In practice, I never last long. Is it just because I suck or is it because it's not as good as it sounds?
-Is there any reliable way for Eli to beat King Konga without suffering massive amounts of damage?
-What sort of items do you look for? I tend to go for a good rapier, an offensive ring, anti-ooze boots, and the best armour I come across, but will usually settle for whatever else I can get.

I pretty much never pick the miner's cap or ring of phasing, they seem to be attuned to specific style of play that I'm not used to. That said, the Coda runs I've watched seem to prioritize the ring of phasing.

Rapier and bows are weapons I tend to go for, although the whip is very good once you get use to it. I especially like it on zone 2 for killing armadillos. Offensive rings I also prioritize, especially the ring of courage, and the winged boots are usually a must-have. I tend to prefer the pick to any of the other shovels. Crown of thorns is probably my go-to headwear if I can find it.
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #914 on: June 17, 2015, 12:56:32 am »
+1

Things I dislike about the Necrodancer:
-He hardly dances at all.
-He likes stealing hearts.
-He animates deadly remains into a mockery of life all over the place.
-He has trapped you and your family inside a crypt full of deadly traps and deadlier enemies.
-He ignores the heavily armored nigh-unkillable challenger and throws everything STRAIGHT AFTER THE RECOVERING ONE OH MY GOD I HATE HIM SO MUCH.

I DON'T FIND THIS MOST AMUSING
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blueblimp

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #915 on: June 17, 2015, 01:11:34 am »
+2

Some questions about Necrodancer:

-Miner's Cap: Is it a trap? It looks like a trap. Not being able to dig to skip a beat hurts a lot, even with a weapon with a good area of effect.
-Ring of Phasing: I've gotten it a couple of times with the dagger of phasing just for the sake of trying the combo. In theory, you should be immortal in standard levels. In practice, I never last long. Is it just because I suck or is it because it's not as good as it sounds?
-Is there any reliable way for Eli to beat King Konga without suffering massive amounts of damage?
-What sort of items do you look for? I tend to go for a good rapier, an offensive ring, anti-ooze boots, and the best armour I come across, but will usually settle for whatever else I can get.
Miner's Cap: It's not great if all you want high survivability, yeah. For speedrunning certain characters though, it's such a strong item that it was banned from the recent Melody CoNDOR (a racing tournament). For me personally, on Cadence, dig-buffering is not super duper important, so I'll take Miner's Cap if I have nothing better for the slot and am going fast.

Ring of Phasing: This is a really hard item to use and I still don't take it. For speedrunning, it is elite level because it trivializes zone 4 if you know how to use it. Some have proposed removing it or reworking it for that reason (http://braceyourselfgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2926), but that seems unlikely to happen at an official level. What I've gathered by watching high level streams is that you want to be using bombs and/or fireball (blood magic if necessary) to kill minibosses from inside the wall, then scoot to the exit.

I've never seriously tried Eli, so no ideas there.

Items to look for: I've been practicing Cadence racing recently, where my current target is hitting times of about 10-15 minutes reliably without dying. For that, I like to ideally have: any armor that's chainmail or better; some sort of regen (ring of regen, crown of thorns, heal spell) or simply a ton of hearts; at least 2 damage, ideally boostable to 3 for opening crates (war drum is nice for this if your weapon is titanium); decent attack pattern (really anything except dagger, broadsword, and especially whip; though jeweled dagger is pretty good), with rapier often the best; any torch; ooze boots; Lucky Charm; 3 (ideally 4) bombs to accelerate the final boss. There are a lot of good rings, so that slot is contested: Ring of Courage, Ring of Regen, Ring of Peace, Ring of Mana (bonkers with Freeze, Fireball, or Shield).
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #916 on: June 17, 2015, 01:35:01 am »
+2

For me personally, on Cadence, dig-buffering is not super duper important

That's interesting. How do you deal with red bats / monkeys / ghouls / etc. when you are off-beat with them if you can't dig-buffer? Just accept the groove loss?


3 (ideally 4) bombs to accelerate the final boss

Does this mean what I think it means? I will try this on my next run.
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blueblimp

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #917 on: June 17, 2015, 02:09:30 am »
+2

For me personally, on Cadence, dig-buffering is not super duper important

That's interesting. How do you deal with red bats / monkeys / ghouls / etc. when you are off-beat with them if you can't dig-buffer? Just accept the groove loss?
For bats, Lucky Charm makes them not very dangerous. (Luck items cause bats to try to avoid hitting you if they can.) For the others, any non-dagger weapon can handle the parity mismatch without needing to buffer. If necessary, losing coin multiplier tends to be OK when playing for speed, at least once you have the Lucky Charm. There are also some things you can bump against that don't lose the coin multiplier, like crates and barrels. Off the top of my head, the most important uses of dig buffer are in zone 1 while not having a good weapon yet, and to lure the goblins in zone 3. Other than that, it can be handy but I can get by without.
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Jorbles

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #918 on: June 22, 2015, 01:05:55 am »
+2

I beat Massive Chalice! It has a nice ending. The final boss fight has some neat features to it as well.
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Jorbles

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #919 on: June 22, 2015, 01:05:13 pm »
+2

I wanted to elaborate on my last post a bit as I had a bit more time to write something up about the game. Massive Chalice was pretty fun throughout. It did get harder too as the game goes on though there's definitely a learning curve at the start. I enjoyed playing on Iron mode (no save scumming allowed) because it really stuck me with some decisions that I could have made better, but the game was more interesting when I took a level 9 Caberjack into a fight because he was a high level only to discover he was puny and had asthma making him a terrible frontliner. It was also sad to have an older character get struck by a Wrinkler for 2 damage only to immediately die of old age.

In the final fight, I had a Twitcher swap places on the first turn with my level 10 Trickshot who immediately got swarmed and killed. This made me think I might lose the final fight when I discovered that the Chalice would resurrect an ancestor of the dead hero to take his place, which was a super cool surprise. When his dad popped up taking his place I managed to explode a path through the enemies to get him out.
I also liked the defending of the Chalice against wave after wave of enemy minions because it was completely different from the regular missions. There really are too many minions for you to kill off so you have to pick and choose which ones can go through and hurt the Chalice, while you deal with the bigger threat. (Anything that can stun is the biggest threat, having a hero miss a turn is brutal.)


Also Bees, while not super effective, are a really funny thing to have out on the battlefield.
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Grujah

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #920 on: June 24, 2015, 06:47:09 pm »
+2

What difficulty? I've just beat, I think I played on Ironman Normal (I think, but definitely Ironman), and last mission was WAY too easy.

I had two relics, and Between my Caberjacks regaining action after each kill, Alchs being able to blast 3+ enemies twice a turn, and everybody having high enough damage to One-Shot-KO everything, I pretty much cleared the waves as soon as their appeared, Chalice only got hit once by a Seed (cuz I didn't know it would hit Chalice).

I did make quite a few blunders during my times, too.
Like mass stunning my whole team on T1, losing a Relic due to a lot of misstimed deaths, Having my main bloodline have Puny/Slow Learner genetic trait across many generations (And they were my Cabers), having no hunters at various points in game, etc.

Now I want  try the last mission and lose ;D
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Jorbles

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #921 on: June 24, 2015, 08:49:04 pm »
+1

I was playing on Normal/Iron difficulty too. Everyone had a relic on my team, but I think what made it hard was that I tried to time two level 10 Shadowjacks to make it for the last fight, but they died of old age before it happened (one to a couple wrinklers when he ran in and got a glancing blow and one to just general oldness even though I had researched Longevity and he was only 70ish >:() I had stopped creating Shadowjacks because I was counting on them so had to go in with level 8-9 Blastcappers instead. They leveled up late in the fight and became really good, but that was after the hard part.

Were you using a lot of the researched weapons? I didn't use them much because I wanted 5 relics. I had 5 relics, but maybe they weren't levelled as much as they could have been, they were good, but they didn't rule the game like I thought they would.
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Grujah

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #922 on: June 25, 2015, 05:48:58 am »
+1

My both Relic bearers had Longevity and the bonus research, and one of them was old but young at heart, so they both managed to live. Other 3 didn't have relic, (They had Boomsling, Explosive Caber and penetrating bow) but I think all 3 were recruits - as my families started to really get shitty as time progressed so I even emptied all my keeps when I was close to the ending.

One cool thing I think I did is that I got a guy with "Strength of the Walrus" from the quest and I immediately made him a Standard. So he passed that on on  all the Trainees, and I kept replacing him with others with the same trait, so the trait really took root.
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Jorbles

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #923 on: June 25, 2015, 12:30:12 pm »
+1

That's pretty cool, I didn't think to try and do that. I didn't get Strength of the Walrus quest this game, but did get Lash Lord. I wonder if you could pass on that trait? It's possible it would be too unfair to pass on a trait that makes heroes level 10 at the cost of having white hair.
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Jorbles

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #924 on: June 25, 2015, 12:38:04 pm »
+1

That's pretty cool, I didn't think to try and do that. I didn't get Strength of the Walrus quest this game, but did get Lash Lord. I wonder if you could pass on that trait? It's possible it would be too unfair to pass on a trait that makes heroes level 10 at the cost of having white hair.

I didn't even realize how low the chance of having a hero survive the Lash quest is. I was extremely lucky to get a success the second time I encountered it. I just looked it up.
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