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Author Topic: roguelike games  (Read 81377 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1100 on: January 25, 2017, 04:56:02 pm »
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Hey guys have you tried crypt of the necrodancer, it's a cool new spin on rogue likes where you have limited time to make choices since you must move on beat.

If anyone else has played it, and probably none of you have, but if you have, are there some reasonable and rewarding achievements to be had with the more-powerful-than-default characters or do they mostly have a debug mode feel.
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1101 on: January 25, 2017, 05:22:08 pm »
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I have to assume you're being funny, but I still dug out a couple of posts.

Have you guys heard of Crypt of the Necrodancer? Just came out, $15 early access on Steam, but it's very playable and very fun now.

It's basically half roguelike half rhythm game. You and the enemies move on the beats of the music. So it's turn-based but also real time. Quite ingenious, and not as easy as it looks! It kind of feels like high-speed chess. You can even play with a dance pad if you want apparently!

I think it got mentioned way up but does anyone here play Crypt of the Necrodancer? I just started playing it and it's already a serious contender for my favorite game of all time.

Cleared Necrodancer zone 3 for the first time a couple days ago. (Just normal mode, not hardcore.) I like how zone 3 is swarmier while still being fair--perfect play should be able to handle nearly anything. The music IMO is not as good later on in the game as in the initial levels, though.

To answer my earlier wondering about whether the rhythm aspect would be developed more, it is a bit (minor spoilers): The speed of music is increased to increase difficulty, which is an interesting mechanic. Also, the King Conga boss omits every 8th beat.

So I finally got my hands on Crypt of the Necrodancer. I've only reached 2-4 yet and only seen two bosses, but I don't see how the game could possibly live up to 1-2's theme.

The game reminds me a lot of Spelunky, but less vicious.

Also screw those Red Dragons. Seriously.

Finally picked up Crypt of the NecroDancer when it went on sale this weekend. What a cool game, super innovative and hard enough to keep me interested. Beat first zone (Deep Blues as boss) and have been having a lot of trouble with second so far. I love how they integrated the music into the game though!

Most of the alternative characters are actually harder than Cadence, with the exception of Bard, and probably (light spoilers) Melody.
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Titandrake

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1102 on: January 25, 2017, 11:23:04 pm »
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Has anyone picked up Afterbirth+ yet? I haven't bought it yet but it's likely I'll pick it up eventually. I hear there were balance issues on release day, but it's been getting better after patches.
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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1103 on: January 26, 2017, 07:01:46 pm »
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it's good. they decided to make things difficult by just making modes with even less keys/bombs/heart drops &c, which is kind of just not fun, but there's also plenty of plain ol' new stuff
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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1104 on: January 28, 2017, 04:59:24 am »
+1

Crypt feels like rhythm game with light roguelike touches and not a roguelike that employs rhythm for sure.  Given the constraint that's kinda to be expected but theoretically I think with more emphasis on stuff like the spells and less emphasis on autoattacks it could get a bunch more of a roguelike feel.  But if the rhythm is still in, I can't guarantee that'd be as fun to play as necrodancer's approach.

I noticed one of the posters hinted that they wanted the rhythm mechanic explored more, and I really agree that it was a missed opportunity for fun factor to not add stuff like the conga boss to the core experience.  I actually used to do lots of ballroom dancing, and to me the funnest thing about ballroom dancing is performing an action that costs a certain amount of measures to get some effect, while still maintaining the rhythm.  In practical scenarios where you ballroom dance around other random people, this means performing a 1 measure or 2 measure pattern that allows you to turn a corner or navigate away from other dancers you might bump into (this nuance is lost by a Dancing with the Stars showcase).

It's not the execution barrier addition I'm interested in for a game like crypt, it's the beat cost concept that I think would be cool.  Imagine that you could buy an item from the shop that says if you skip two beats then press a direction, you deal 3 damage to everything in that direction.  Wouldn't that be cool?  If this gets introduced later, totally rescinded, but my current impression is that endgame content is going to be based on knowing the enemy patterns and dodging them really well, bullet hell style, while you chip away with tried and true autoattacks you've had since floor 1.

Like, imagine a remade version of crypt where there's a fast low HP enemy 6 cells away from you and a slower high hp enemy 6 cells away from you, and you have a charge staff that can be charged every other phase that does massive damage in an aoe around you, and a high cooldown move that pushes an adjacent enemy away from you.  So you move away from both parties, charge the former skill one phase, move away from them , charge, move away from them, charge, then the little fast one is too close, so you fan it away, then you move away again, then charge, then the slower one gets to you first because it wasn't fanned, and you kill it with your fully charged weapon, and then your tiny weapon is plenty enough to beat the annoying guy even if you dont have the fanning cooldown ready to go again yet.
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1105 on: May 15, 2017, 09:26:35 pm »
+1

So Crypt of the Necrodancer is getting DLC. It's still on Early Access, but I am mentioning it because Six Feet Thunder might be my new favourite piece from the game.
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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1106 on: May 20, 2017, 03:18:47 am »
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new roguelike fps on humble bundle.

It's ok.  I kind of hate fps as a genre.  So given the constraints of an FPS inherently I think I like it.
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sitnaltax

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1107 on: May 25, 2017, 08:33:11 pm »
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Are you talking about Ziggurat?

I was excited to give it a try, but after 10 or so plays, I'm losing enthusiasm for it. There's way too much filler in between the exciting fights, and the platforming challenges are miserable. (And they hide excellent treasure, so skipping them isn't great.)
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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1108 on: May 26, 2017, 12:01:22 am »
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I had a similar enthusiasm curve with a similar number of plays.

I found the platforming challenges trivial, I attempted like 9 and only took non-negligible damage on one of them.  It might help that I've played lots of first person shooters and third person shooters with platforming elements.  Although, I tend to agree with "don't jam another genre into your game of a totally unrelated genre" in principle.

It seems hard to say for sure what the problem with it is, since technically I guess it's the same deal as binding of Isaac in terms of, constantly upgrading character, dodge your opponents attacks and shoot them, you can take zero or almost zero from enemies once you git gud..  the amount of time your forced to spend in empty rooms is maybe a little lower in BoI, and the number of boss fights is slightly higher in BoI, but those shouldn't be making for a landslide difference.

This thing has all sorts of fancy graphics and sound effects, so if it was a matter of "get the numbers right", it's a damn shame they didn't get the numbers right.  Maybe more highly damaging enemies with less health or something.

If it's flawed in concept, I can't put my finger on it for sure.

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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1109 on: May 26, 2017, 12:50:58 am »
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I haven't played Ziggurat (I have played BoI though), but the difference between 1st person and isometric view is huge for the feeling of dodging attacks, because having a static background allows the game to move your character around much faster without losing the player (imagine playing Ziggurat with your character being able to go across the room as you can in BoI; you're going to get sick).

So the action can be made much more fast, reactive and visceral in an isometric game. That might be part of the reason? The price to pay is that 1st person feels more immersive and allows for three dimensions.
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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1110 on: May 28, 2017, 04:01:44 am »
+1

If it was rsp I would use the four letter word I want, but Scout immersion.
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sitnaltax

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1111 on: May 28, 2017, 07:49:18 pm »
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One of my gripes with Ziggurat is that the weapons are really uninteresting. Wand/spell/staff/alchemy is just pistol/shotgun/rifle/rocket, with not much difference within the type. Everything is a projectile, and most monsters are fought the same way. I wanted to be a wizard--waves of fire, bolts that penetrate to the monsters behind, DoTs that corrode a big threat while I shoot it with something else.

My other gripe is that it gets going too slowly and the first levels are uninteresting. I got to the point where I can wand my way through the first floor and not use many resources. That's fine, but it takes 10-15 minutes, and you can't skip any part because you'll miss the resources that you'll need in the future. Then death comes suddenly in a tight-packed Scavenge room and there's nothing you can do about it.
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