Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Pillage  (Read 19163 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Pillage
« on: June 04, 2013, 01:31:27 pm »
+2

        Since my Marauder article got up on the Dominion blog by Theory, I thought I would write another one. I put more time into this one, but Pillage is harder to write an article about. I'm sure there is lots that can be added, so make suggestions and I'll add if needed.

        When I first got Dark Ages and was looking through the cards, I saw Pillage and thought “This is the epitome of one-shot cards.” Everything about Pillage is temporary. It self-trashes when you play it, Spoils can only be used once and its attack hurts one hand. I had no doubt choosing what to discard was powerful, but is it powerful enough to spend $5 on to do it once? I can safely say that yes, it really is worth it. It’s not Witch, but not every $5 card can be the best.

One Use:
   The first thing that apparently makes Pillage weak is its one time use. Usually an attack card is good because it can be played over and over again. The one shot nature of the card means you have to take a different approach to it. The attack isn’t for a lasting effect, at least not directly. The goal of Pillage is to deny the use of key cards in your opponent’s deck. This could be important attack cards or money later in the game, or trashers early in the game. The Spoils allow you to pick up cards on your next shuffle that you missed when you bought Pillage. If you don’t deny important cards with Pillage, you’re more often than not simply slowing down your own deck improvement unless you can turn the Spoils into something permanent.
   If your opponent has a very thin deck, denying him one card may not make a huge difference if he’ll just pick it up next turn again. It may also hurt him a lot if you deny the trasher before the thin deck stage is reached, like denying the first play of Chapel can really slow down your opponent. For the most part though it won’t hurt thin decks that much.
   It also isn’t great against large decks. It requires a lot of luck to Pillage a hand with the Philosopher Stone in it. Pillage is probably best against mid-size decks that are building up an engine. Every card is important during the first few turns. Stopping your opponent’s big draw turn is really powerful, especially when he lined up the +Actions and +Cards for the first time. This means buying Pillage as your first $5 card is probably a very good move on a lot of boards, but buying it later isn’t.
        $5 gainers are also a great for Pillage. University is both +actions and gains you Pillage. Altar turns junk into Pillage. Graverobber and Rogue also gain used Pillages. Graverobber is better, as it topdecks the Pillage, but Rogue can be good too if there are not Pillages in the trash yet as it attacks, possibly hurting your opponent before you even start Pillaging.
   Also, if you’re aiming to hit attack cards in your opponent’s hand, you have to consider simply buying that card yourself. Don’t pass on Witch simply for a chance to discard the other player’s Witch. With good trashing though, you may consider otherwise, simply trashing the incoming curses, and use Pillage to slow down the barrage of Curses.

Spoils:
   This should probably be mentioned in an article on Spoils in general, but I’ll say a few things quickly. These Spoils are not renewable. Bandit Camp is non-terminal and Marauder can be opened with. Pillage needs to turn the Spoils into something useful much more than the other Spoils gainers do. If you get unlucky and draw Spoils with only a copper and nothing else, then you’re either mostly wasting the Spoils if you use them, or not buying anything. Also it should be said that the usual Counterfeit+Spoils combo is not great since the Spoils are not going to be consistently coming into your deck.
   That being said, the one shot spoils are great to buy real Golds, and the attack part should slow down your opponent enough that you can catch up on the time you spent buying and playing Pillage.

When not to go for Pillage:
   There are two things that hurt Pillage bad.
  • Hitting a hand that is already bad
  • Hitting hands where 1 card doesn’t matter
   The first problem is mostly luck based, but can also happen in alt-VP games. Hitting the turn where your opponent has 4VP cards and one Copper sucks so much, because you know his next turn is the one with all the good cards. The luck needed in a successful Pillage can make this card swingy enough to skip in many cases.
   The second reason is more common. Many setups have strong engines. A hand of 2 Villages, 2 Council Rooms probably isn’t hurt much by losing one of those cards. Strong engines are pretty resilient to Pillage, unless hit while they are being built. Also Duration cards should be mentioned, in particular Wharf, Tactician and Caravan. Pillage is strong because you can guarantee a bad hand. With Duration cards you have no idea what he’ll be picking up, so the damage is often of unknown strength, if not minimal.
        Pillage also does not work well with other discard attacks since it can only hit hands with 5 cards or more in them. Playing Pillage first solves the issue slightly, but still weakens the other discarding attack. Cutpurse and Torturer however, if played after Pillage, will still have their full potential because they are non-conditional.

Good with:
-   $5 gainers (University, Altar)
-   Throne Room, King’s Court (Gets more Spoils)
-   Cards that can use the self-trash ability (Market Square, Procession)
-   Watchtower (Getting into play faster, and the spoils faster)
Does not work with:
-   Engines that are faster to set up than Pillage.
-   Slogs or rushes
-   Ultra-thin decks or decks that aren’t hurt much by losing 1 card
-   Duration cards, specifically those that give +cards
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:58:02 am by KingZog3 »
Logged

gman314

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 589
  • Respect: +281
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 01:55:01 pm »
+1

Graverobber and Rogue definitely deserve mention.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 02:16:12 pm »
0

Graverobber and Rogue definitely deserve mention.

Of course. I totally forgot about them.
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3391
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 02:18:06 pm »
+5

I'm not sure I'd say it's "good" with Throne Room and King's Court, since the attack doesn't stack at all, and adding a bunch of treasure to your deck is a great way to ensure that your Throne Rooms and King's Courts will have trouble colliding with Actions in the future.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3391
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 02:19:51 pm »
0

Yeah, really it anti-synergizes with those cards. If you King a Pillage, you lose an Action card and gain 6 cards that you can't King!
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 02:20:10 pm »
+2

I'm not sure I'd say it's "good" with Throne Room and King's Court, since the attack doesn't stack at all, and adding a bunch of treasure to your deck is a great way to ensure that your Throne Rooms and King's Courts will have trouble colliding with Actions in the future.
Spoils are temporary, so they aren't really being added to your deck. You can buy action cards worth KCing with them, then they are gone.
Logged

achmed_sender

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • Shuffle iT Username: achmedsender
  • Respect: +202
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2013, 02:51:20 pm »
0

Mabe it's also nice in an engine which can buy some VP+Pillage every turn, then get $6+hand-reducing every turn...

I suppose Pillage is a quite decent card in early game, but maybe even on turn 1/2 in case of 5/2 start, because there the spoils do help massively, although the discarding is on the level of Cutpurse.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2013, 03:13:15 pm »
0

Mabe it's also nice in an engine which can buy some VP+Pillage every turn, then get $6+hand-reducing every turn...

I suppose Pillage is a quite decent card in early game, but maybe even on turn 1/2 in case of 5/2 start, because there the spoils do help massively, although the discarding is on the level of Cutpurse.

Not quite true, since there is a good enough chance to discard whatever the other player bought.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2013, 11:42:11 pm »
+2

   There are two things that hurt Pillage bad.
  • Hitting a hand that is already bad
  • Hitting hands where 1 card doesn’t matter
   The first problem is mostly luck based, but can also happen in alt-VP games. Hitting the turn where your opponent has 4VP cards and one Copper sucks so much, because you know his next turn is the one with all the good cards. The luck needed in a successful Pillage can make this card swingy enough to skip in many cases.
   The second reason is more common. Many setups have strong engines. A hand of 2 Villages, 2 Council Rooms probably isn’t hurt much by losing one of those cards. Strong engines are pretty resilient to Pillage, unless hit while they are being built. Also Duration cards should be mentioned, in particular Wharf, Tactician and Caravan. Pillage is strong because you can guarantee a bad hand. With Duration cards you have no idea what he’ll be picking up, so the damage is often of unknown strength, if not minimal.

(1) can be solved by playing Pillage every turn. This is possible both with the things that gain lots of Pillages, and generally just being able to draw your whole deck and buying something+Pillage.
(2) is more of a problem vs non-terminal draw. The Village+Council Room deck won't always have 2 Villages in hand. And if you cause one turn to be wasted for that deck, it's a big deal.

I think Pillage is good in the same situations most attacks are good: engines where you can play the attack a lot.
Logged

eliegel34

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +146
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2013, 03:04:04 pm »
0

I think Pillage is good in the same situations most attacks are good: engines where you can play the attack a lot.

As HME says, it is good when you can play it a lot.  I think Pillage is strongest if you are playing an engine vs. BM.  It can really allow you to buy time in the case of an engine that is either fairly week, or slow to set up.  Once you are playing Pillage every turn, it makes it really hard for a BM deck to get anywhere. 
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 03:28:40 pm »
0

I think Pillage is good in the same situations most attacks are good: engines where you can play the attack a lot.

As HME says, it is good when you can play it a lot.  I think Pillage is strongest if you are playing an engine vs. BM.  It can really allow you to buy time in the case of an engine that is either fairly week, or slow to set up.  Once you are playing Pillage every turn, it makes it really hard for a BM deck to get anywhere.

I see what you're saying. Maybe I don't use Pillage optimally then. Still, playing it every turn means spending $5 every time you use Pillage, and that's costly.
Logged

eliegel34

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +146
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2013, 03:41:36 pm »
+1

I think Pillage is good in the same situations most attacks are good: engines where you can play the attack a lot.

As HME says, it is good when you can play it a lot.  I think Pillage is strongest if you are playing an engine vs. BM.  It can really allow you to buy time in the case of an engine that is either fairly week, or slow to set up.  Once you are playing Pillage every turn, it makes it really hard for a BM deck to get anywhere.

I see what you're saying. Maybe I don't use Pillage optimally then. Still, playing it every turn means spending $5 every time you use Pillage, and that's costly.

It is expensive to buy it every turn, but in an engine deck that cost is well worth it for the attack.  Assuming you are drawing your deck every turn, the cost isn't as high as you would think since the spoils you get from it allow you to buy one next turn.  It costs 1 Action, the draw of 3 cards (Pillage and 2 Spoils), and supplies +1 Coin (2*3 Spoils -5 Coins to buy the next Pillage).
Logged

StrongRhino

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
  • Shuffle iT Username: StrongRhino
  • Respect: +247
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2013, 06:48:17 pm »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2013, 08:30:24 pm »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.

University is only only card that just straight lets you gain $5s. Otherwise you need to spend the $ to buy it again. But yeah, that deck sounds pretty strong to me.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2013, 08:44:03 pm »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.

University is only only card that just straight lets you gain $5s. Otherwise you need to spend the $ to buy it again. But yeah, that deck sounds pretty strong to me.

Altar... unless you discount it as "straight" because it requires trashing.  But then, you can play Altar with an empty hand and gain a card without trashing.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 09:57:34 am »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.

University is only only card that just straight lets you gain $5s. Otherwise you need to spend the $ to buy it again. But yeah, that deck sounds pretty strong to me.

Altar... unless you discount it as "straight" because it requires trashing.  But then, you can play Altar with an empty hand and gain a card without trashing.

Altar too. I mentioned it in the article.
Logged

platykurtic

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 04:21:35 am »
0

I don't think you mention that it goes badly with hand-size reduction attacks, your own or other players in 3+ play. It only attacks 5+ card hands, so if an opponent has fewer cards, they're immune.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 04:51:37 am »
0

Well, you just have to time Pillage before your Militia/Goons/Torturer/Margrave.
Discard their best card, now they have their 4 worst cards. Let them discard 1 from that and the net result is that they have discarded their best and worst card, still better than letting them discard their 2 worst.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

lespeutere

  • 2012 German Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 488
  • Respect: +390
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2013, 05:42:56 am »
0

Well, you just have to time Pillage before your Militia/Goons/Torturer/Margrave.
Discard their best card, now they have their 4 worst cards. Let them discard 1 from that and the net result is that they have discarded their best and worst card, still better than letting them discard their 2 worst.

Sure, but when someone has already played goons before, you have less players' hands to discard cards from.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2013, 09:59:20 am »
0

Well, you just have to time Pillage before your Militia/Goons/Torturer/Margrave.
Discard their best card, now they have their 4 worst cards. Let them discard 1 from that and the net result is that they have discarded their best and worst card, still better than letting them discard their 2 worst.

Sure, but when someone has already played goons before, you have less players' hands to discard cards from.

True. I added a bit about it. Cutpurse and Torturer though aren't really affected  if they are played after, which I also mentioned.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2013, 01:50:05 pm »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.

University is only only card that just straight lets you gain $5s. Otherwise you need to spend the $ to buy it again. But yeah, that deck sounds pretty strong to me.

Altar... unless you discount it as "straight" because it requires trashing.  But then, you can play Altar with an empty hand and gain a card without trashing.

Altar too. I mentioned it in the article.

And Horn of Plenty.
Logged

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2013, 03:43:04 pm »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.

That was probably this game against me.

Another game with University and Pillage I played on the same day. My opponent resigned once he realised that going forward I would be playing a Pillage every turn.
Logged

StrongRhino

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
  • Shuffle iT Username: StrongRhino
  • Respect: +247
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2013, 04:44:39 pm »
0

I recently lost to a deck that went University/Pillage.
Crushed my hands with Pillage and easily had enough cash from spoils to win.

That was probably this game against me.

Another game with University and Pillage I played on the same day. My opponent resigned once he realised that going forward I would be playing a Pillage every turn.
Yup that's me :P
The log says I didn't buy anything T1. I could've sworn I did.
Logged

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2013, 04:56:56 pm »
0

You had a 2/5 opening. The only things you could have afforded t1 would have been curse and copper.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1380
    • View Profile
Re: Pillage
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2013, 05:07:53 pm »
0

You had a 2/5 opening. The only things you could have afforded t1 would have been curse and copper.

He could have taken Estate. That 1 point could make all the difference in the end!
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.094 seconds with 20 queries.