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[eHalcyon]

Has anyone checked out this game?  It's a drafting game like 7 Wonders, mixed with a bit of tile laying, sort of.  The KS campaign is for the first expansion.  It's highly praised by the Dice Tower, and it seems like it would be a good pick for anyone who enjoys 7 Wonders.  I went ahead and made it the first KS I've ever backed.  I am currently considering dropping in the extra $12 for the minis...

[Jimmmmm]

Somebody explain Kickstarter to me. This is an expansion we're talking about - the original game has already been published, along with at least two other games by the same publisher. This is an established publisher we're talking about, already accruing revenue from their previous publications. Why can't they use their own money to make this business investment? And surely this is a business investment; they would expect to make more money from this expansion than the cost to develop, manufacture, market and distribute it. Do they plan on reimbursing those who have contributed? I'm guessing not, which means any contributions to this project will end up being pure profit (minus the rewards) for the company.

Maybe I'm missing the point, in which case please explain it to me. But to me it seems like Kickstarter is designed for providing funding to people who have a great idea but lack the means to bring it to fruition, but is being used by companies who want their investments to be running a profit before they even start.

[DStu]

Somebody explain Kickstarter to me. This is an expansion we're talking about - the original game has already been published, along with at least two other games by the same publisher. This is an established publisher we're talking about, already accruing revenue from their previous publications. Why can't they use their own money to make this business investment? And surely this is a business investment; they would expect to make more money from this expansion than the cost to develop, manufacture, market and distribute it. Do they plan on reimbursing those who have contributed? I'm guessing not, which means any contributions to this project will end up being pure profit (minus the rewards) for the company.

Maybe I'm missing the point, in which case please explain it to me. But to me it seems like Kickstarter is designed for providing funding to people who have a great idea but lack the means to bring it to fruition, but is being used by companies who want their investments to be running a profit before they even start.

Anyway, I have read to many "They have money why don't they finance it themselfs?" in the last time.  Why should they? Should they risk there whole buisness on this one product if there is the possibility not to? You also buy things from people who already have enough mone, you usually do this all the time, and with people who have much more money than the average "wealthy kickstarter".  Usually, after all this a persons who spent much more risk to make a living than the average person, even if the latter invests $20 in a product that might never exist.  And they take the risks to make prodcuts happen that you like, so at least you should not call for the pitchforks if people give them money in the assumption that they will deliver.
 
Kickstarting as seen as something ugly, something that you only do as an emergency when you have no other choice in this argumentation, but why should it be seen like that?  Why shouldn't the fans of some product mitigate the risks for the producer, and often also given them more freedom in designing/developing their product if they don't have to report to some money--giver.  Because that in the end means that it is easier to produce that products, and that will mean there will be more of them.

@reimbursing: You get "only" the reward, but the reward usually is the product to a cheaper price. You can argue if the discount is worth the risk, on the other hand, if you give money to someone who already has a running buisness, it's less likely to fail because there is probably more experience and other streams of revenue if something happens.  Also, paying money back to kickstarters is not allowed under kickstarter rules and afaik also not under US law, at least not until recently.  But the latter will/has change/d.

[ftl]

Somebody explain Kickstarter to me. This is an expansion we're talking about - the original game has already been published, along with at least two other games by the same publisher. This is an established publisher we're talking about, already accruing revenue from their previous publications. Why can't they use their own money to make this business investment? And surely this is a business investment; they would expect to make more money from this expansion than the cost to develop, manufacture, market and distribute it. Do they plan on reimbursing those who have contributed? I'm guessing not, which means any contributions to this project will end up being pure profit (minus the rewards) for the company.

Maybe I'm missing the point, in which case please explain it to me. But to me it seems like Kickstarter is designed for providing funding to people who have a great idea but lack the means to bring it to fruition, but is being used by companies who want their investments to be running a profit before they even start.

It mitigates risk. Without kickstarter, you have to go out on a limb - make a product and try to sell it, and only then find out whether anyone will buy it. Kickstarter is a way of gauging whether there's enough interest for this to be a product worth doing, before actually having to spend any money.

Presumably, if they knew in advance there would be enough interest, they'd just make it then sell it. But what if they don't know? It's a game that seemed to sell well, but who knows whether people liked it enough to want to spend money on an expansion? Well, now they know - 606 people have effectively preordered it prior to production. (Specifically, 406 people ordered the expansion, and 185 people ordered base game + expansion.) (If you look at the kickstarter 'rewards', all of them are basically "a copy of the game plus shipping", priced approximately what that would cost anyway.)

For a buyer, participating in a kickstarter like this seems like a good deal. It's an established enough company that you're probably not worried about them not following through for some reason. You're not paying any more for the game than you would if you waited and bought it on release.

So it's a win-win all around.

[Jimmmmm]

Somebody explain Kickstarter to me. This is an expansion we're talking about - the original game has already been published, along with at least two other games by the same publisher. This is an established publisher we're talking about, already accruing revenue from their previous publications. Why can't they use their own money to make this business investment? And surely this is a business investment; they would expect to make more money from this expansion than the cost to develop, manufacture, market and distribute it. Do they plan on reimbursing those who have contributed? I'm guessing not, which means any contributions to this project will end up being pure profit (minus the rewards) for the company.

Maybe I'm missing the point, in which case please explain it to me. But to me it seems like Kickstarter is designed for providing funding to people who have a great idea but lack the means to bring it to fruition, but is being used by companies who want their investments to be running a profit before they even start.

It mitigates risk. Without kickstarter, you have to go out on a limb - make a product and try to sell it, and only then find out whether anyone will buy it. Kickstarter is a way of gauging whether there's enough interest for this to be a product worth doing, before actually having to spend any money.

Presumably, if they knew in advance there would be enough interest, they'd just make it then sell it. But what if they don't know? It's a game that seemed to sell well, but who knows whether people liked it enough to want to spend money on an expansion? Well, now they know - 606 people have effectively preordered it prior to production. (Specifically, 406 people ordered the expansion, and 185 people ordered base game + expansion.) (If you look at the kickstarter 'rewards', all of them are basically "a copy of the game plus shipping", priced approximately what that would cost anyway.)

For a buyer, participating in a kickstarter like this seems like a good deal. It's an established enough company that you're probably not worried about them not following through for some reason. You're not paying any more for the game than you would if you waited and bought it on release.

So it's a win-win all around.

Thanks, that helps.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm debating getting this -- has anyone played the base game before?

[eHalcyon]

I'm debating getting this -- has anyone played the base game before?

If you are still thinking about this, you could watch rahdo run through it here.  But make up your mind quick!  There are only 19 hours left in the kickstarter.  A whole bunch of stretch goals have been unlocked, including materials to accommodate a 5th and 6th player.  Not only that, but there is one last stretch goal that looks to be within reach.