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Author Topic: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 3)  (Read 97247 times)

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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #625 on: July 01, 2013, 11:52:54 am »

That the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...

What?
What do you mean what...you only made one statement

I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different story
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #626 on: July 01, 2013, 11:55:01 am »

That the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...

What?
What do you mean what...you only made one statement

I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different story

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #627 on: July 01, 2013, 12:02:08 pm »

That the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...

What?
What do you mean what...you only made one statement

I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different story

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Again..."without explanation" is FALSE
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #628 on: July 01, 2013, 12:02:56 pm »

That the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...

What?
What do you mean what...you only made one statement

I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different story

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Again..."without explanation" is FALSE

Yuma, without explanation, signaled he was against lio.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #629 on: July 01, 2013, 12:03:31 pm »

it does come off as maybe you had an idea, weren't sure about it, but then Yuma validated that you were "right" kind of. Or maybe you're scum who didn't want to start the wagon, wanted to choose someone who you think you could get mislynched.

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Again..."without explanation" is FALSE
...he's saying that Yuma voted without explanation, which is TRUE.
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #630 on: July 01, 2013, 12:05:34 pm »

That the kindof uncareful thinking we are used to you promoting robz...or should I say scumrobz...

What?
What do you mean what...you only made one statement

I'm not promoting uncareful thinking.
Yes you are....as usual. Then when I point out how you're wrong (for promoting that I voted without "hearing a reason", hint: I already had my own (if you had bothered to read my interaction with lio)... you'd say, oh, that's legit....except thst if comes from me, you write it off...if it comes from someone else....different story

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Again..."without explanation" is FALSE

Yuma, without explanation, signaled he was against lio.
I think says much more about you....that you arent willing to admit you're wrong when I point it out....that or you're trying to twist it for your own scum purposes
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #631 on: July 01, 2013, 12:07:48 pm »

You and mcmc were clearly following yuma's vote, which carried no explanation. Mcmc's quick justification of the sheeping rings false to me. You, I tihnk, are merely wrong.
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #632 on: July 01, 2013, 12:08:34 pm »

it does come off as maybe you had an idea, weren't sure about it, but then Yuma validated that you were "right" kind of. Or maybe you're scum who didn't want to start the wagon, wanted to choose someone who you think you could get mislynched.

Right, I know that both you and mcmc have reasons, but you didn't vote until yuma signalled he was against lio--without explanation! Which is very interesting, and does not reflect well on either of you.
Again..."without explanation" is FALSE
...he's saying that Yuma voted without explanation, which is TRUE.
Lio this is just patently false. I voted after MC--. Gave a reason (and did so prior) and gave a mote detailed answer IMMEDIATELY after..
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #633 on: July 01, 2013, 12:12:37 pm »

You and mcmc were clearly following yuma's vote, which carried no explanation. Mcmc's quick justification of the sheeping rings false to me. You, I tihnk, are merely wrong.
Exactly how does MC (and me according to your twisted view) sheep Yuma when Yuma gives no reason for his vote???  You are claiming sheep vote when the people that came second and third gave reasons and the first did not!
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #634 on: July 01, 2013, 12:18:56 pm »

But you didn't vote until yuma did. You could have voted for lio earlier. You didn't. You felt that yuma had given you permission to do so. Even though for all we know--and I suspect this might be the case--he has nothing against lio and is trying to trap someone.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #635 on: July 01, 2013, 12:27:08 pm »

I believe the timings of both mcmc and SB's votes are suspicious, but mcmc's much more so because his came before SB.
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #636 on: July 01, 2013, 12:47:42 pm »

But you didn't vote until yuma did. You could have voted for lio earlier. You didn't. You felt that yuma had given you permission to do so. Even though for all we know--and I suspect this might be the case--he has nothing against lio and is trying to trap someone.
That's right robz....go ahead and tell me how I feel
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #637 on: July 01, 2013, 12:49:44 pm »

I am getting frustrated.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #638 on: July 01, 2013, 01:05:20 pm »

But you didn't vote until yuma did. You could have voted for lio earlier. You didn't. You felt that yuma had given you permission to do so. Even though for all we know--and I suspect this might be the case--he has nothing against lio and is trying to trap someone.
That's right robz....go ahead and tell me how I feel
Robz is making a decent point. You'd be best to counter it without appeal to emotions.

I find myself in a strange position where I tend to agree with sb on most of his reads but none of his reasoning. I'm town. Is he town arriving at the same conclusions in a different way? Or scum arriving at the same conclusions via invented reasoning? Either way, what does it say about my town play?

I have no constructive thoughts to offer at this point. I've re-read D1 and need to put my thoughts in order. Having 8 alive D2 is different. Never been in a game with that before.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #639 on: July 01, 2013, 01:09:04 pm »

Also, SB and mcmc seem to be basing their votes on events today. We really, really need to reread. My SB vote was based on the most obvious thing from yesterday, the hammer. I should look at everyone else's positions.
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #640 on: July 01, 2013, 01:16:57 pm »

But you didn't vote until yuma did. You could have voted for lio earlier. You didn't. You felt that yuma had given you permission to do so. Even though for all we know--and I suspect this might be the case--he has nothing against lio and is trying to trap someone.
That's right robz....go ahead and tell me how I feel
Robz is making a decent point. You'd be best to counter it without appeal to emotions.

I find myself in a strange position where I tend to agree with sb on most of his reads but none of his reasoning. I'm town. Is he town arriving at the same conclusions in a different way? Or scum arriving at the same conclusions via invented reasoning? Either way, what does it say about my town play?

I have no constructive thoughts to offer at this point. I've re-read D1 and need to put my thoughts in order. Having 8 alive D2 is different. Never been in a game with that before.
I think it's not a decent thing to do...telling other people how they feel
But if you want an answer volt, no I never felt that Yuma have me permission. That is just beyond silly. When have I ever looked to anyone else for permission to vote? You don't know me if you think that's even a possibility
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #641 on: July 01, 2013, 01:17:26 pm »

(Gave not have)
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #642 on: July 01, 2013, 01:21:04 pm »

But you didn't vote until yuma did. You could have voted for lio earlier. You didn't. You felt that yuma had given you permission to do so. Even though for all we know--and I suspect this might be the case--he has nothing against lio and is trying to trap someone.
That's right robz....go ahead and tell me how I feel
Robz is making a decent point. You'd be best to counter it without appeal to emotions.

I find myself in a strange position where I tend to agree with sb on most of his reads but none of his reasoning. I'm town. Is he town arriving at the same conclusions in a different way? Or scum arriving at the same conclusions via invented reasoning? Either way, what does it say about my town play?

I have no constructive thoughts to offer at this point. I've re-read D1 and need to put my thoughts in order. Having 8 alive D2 is different. Never been in a game with that before.
I think it's not a decent thing to do...telling other people how they feel
But if you want an answer volt, no I never felt that Yuma have me permission. That is just beyond silly. When have I ever looked to anyone else for permission to vote? You don't know me if you think that's even a possibility

I'm not voting you for doing it, I'm voting mcmc for doing it.
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #643 on: July 01, 2013, 02:06:01 pm »

I'm going to walk away from here...my appoligies to Shraeye. Your game was fun and I enjoyed it. But apparently I have made this game unfun for many of you here.  I'm sorry
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #644 on: July 01, 2013, 02:23:04 pm »

oh no.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #645 on: July 01, 2013, 03:04:35 pm »

I'm going to walk away from here...my appoligies to Shraeye. Your game was fun and I enjoyed it. But apparently I have made this game unfun for many of you here.  I'm sorry
Not true at all from me...frustration != unfun. But if you'll feel better not playing that's what you should do. Sorry to see you go.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #646 on: July 01, 2013, 03:05:49 pm »

yeah, I'm still having fun, even though you are frustratingly wrong about me :P
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #647 on: July 01, 2013, 04:07:07 pm »

vote: liopoil

Alas I do not have time to give complete reasonings as to why. I have been at work all day--following along via e-mail's--and will be there again tomorrow until evening when I will be able to post something a bit more substantial.

I'll let you all hypothesize as to why I am voting for him though, that sounds like fun...
well, okay...

nkirbit DID defend himself, I can quote his posts for you. I don't think it was his fault he got mislynched, it was the fault of the people on the wagon and the fault of everyone off wagon not defending him. No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance. This excuse it just way too convenient for spiritbears.
Hopefully the same reason I am going to vote: liopoil we just went over how much town needed to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this (bolded above) That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not  scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently.
no. it's the opposite:

"we just went over how much town needs to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this: (No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance.)"

I'M town shooting myself in the foot?(1) well if I'm town, why are you voting for me? more importantly, how do you know I'm town?(2) clearly you don't think I'm town though, so I don't understand why me "shooting myself in the foot" (which I only "am" according to you if I'm town) is scummy. Are you saying that if I'm town, I'm shooting myself in the foot, but if I'm town, I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot, so I'm scum? That would make perfect sense if I was shooting myself in the foot, but I'm not.

I say that town should never hammer their townread, which I believe to be true. Based on this, spiritbears, if town, wouldn't hammer his townread(3). because he did something I don't think would happen if he is town, I think he is scum. It's just logic, and I think it's valid logic and a quite strong reason for a lynch on D2.  The only potential flaw I see is that perhaps SB did shoot himself in the foot. It seems everyone thinks that he did. I am giving him the assumption that he would not do what I see to be a mistake.

"That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not  scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently."

I don't think it is weak. I think it is a good line of reasoning. It's scumhunting, because I'm town who thinks SB is scum. I'm theorizing about what town would and wouldn't do. the reason it has not worked for town is that town has been playing badly and doing things that town shouldn't do. If town started acting like town it would be a lot easier to lynch scum.

mcmc, why do you think I am scum? the only line of reasoning I can sort of find in your post is that "If liopoil is town he is shooting himself in the foot, he wouldn't shoot himself in the foot, so he's scum". And that, as it happens, is the exact same reasoning I am using to find SB to be scum, which you disagree with yourself.

This is the sort if thing that makes me think you are scum and I really need to remember after this game so I can improve my reading of you.

Let me clarify what I meant and why I thought you were scummy.
1) I don't think you are town shooting yourself in the foot I think generally townies have been shooting themselves in the foot by lynching based on this "town shouldn't do X" logic. Now seeing as we just had that discussion I think it is more likely scum!liopoil pushes the wagon that "town shouldn't do X" than that town!liopoil actually thinks spiritbears is scummy for hammering a town read.

My second issue with this is that it is a completely safe legitimate unprovable wagon which I am being extra cautious of. I mean yes sb had a town read yes he hammered him, I don't think that means he is any more likely to be scum, so you saying he did that is safe and in my opinion pushing a townie lynch, so I find you scummy for it.

2) this is something else I find really scummy, you decide I have a bad reasoning for finding you scummy and say I think your townie(I wasn't saying that) then piggyback onto the same statement that I a scummy because "how do I know your town" I mean really that is so much of a jump to an advantageous position for yourself and it something I find scum more likely to do(it's very similar to the tactic ash used against me previously) you sweep my argument under the rug and exclaim I'm scummy in the same breath without any response or reason.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #648 on: July 01, 2013, 06:07:12 pm »

Is chairs still V/LA?
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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #649 on: July 01, 2013, 07:43:14 pm »

vote: liopoil

Alas I do not have time to give complete reasonings as to why. I have been at work all day--following along via e-mail's--and will be there again tomorrow until evening when I will be able to post something a bit more substantial.

I'll let you all hypothesize as to why I am voting for him though, that sounds like fun...
well, okay...

nkirbit DID defend himself, I can quote his posts for you. I don't think it was his fault he got mislynched, it was the fault of the people on the wagon and the fault of everyone off wagon not defending him. No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance. This excuse it just way too convenient for spiritbears.
Hopefully the same reason I am going to vote: liopoil we just went over how much town needed to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this (bolded above) That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not  scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently.
no. it's the opposite:

"we just went over how much town needs to stop shooting itself in the foot with statements like this: (No way should town EVER hammer somebody they have a townread on under any circumstance.)"

I'M town shooting myself in the foot?(1) well if I'm town, why are you voting for me? more importantly, how do you know I'm town?(2) clearly you don't think I'm town though, so I don't understand why me "shooting myself in the foot" (which I only "am" according to you if I'm town) is scummy. Are you saying that if I'm town, I'm shooting myself in the foot, but if I'm town, I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot, so I'm scum? That would make perfect sense if I was shooting myself in the foot, but I'm not.

I say that town should never hammer their townread, which I believe to be true. Based on this, spiritbears, if town, wouldn't hammer his townread(3). because he did something I don't think would happen if he is town, I think he is scum. It's just logic, and I think it's valid logic and a quite strong reason for a lynch on D2.  The only potential flaw I see is that perhaps SB did shoot himself in the foot. It seems everyone thinks that he did. I am giving him the assumption that he would not do what I see to be a mistake.

"That is way too weak a reason to push a D2 wagon and is not  scum hunting or analyzing its theorizing about what is "towny" which has not worked for town recently."

I don't think it is weak. I think it is a good line of reasoning. It's scumhunting, because I'm town who thinks SB is scum. I'm theorizing about what town would and wouldn't do. the reason it has not worked for town is that town has been playing badly and doing things that town shouldn't do. If town started acting like town it would be a lot easier to lynch scum.

mcmc, why do you think I am scum? the only line of reasoning I can sort of find in your post is that "If liopoil is town he is shooting himself in the foot, he wouldn't shoot himself in the foot, so he's scum". And that, as it happens, is the exact same reasoning I am using to find SB to be scum, which you disagree with yourself.

This is the sort if thing that makes me think you are scum and I really need to remember after this game so I can improve my reading of you.

Let me clarify what I meant and why I thought you were scummy.
1) I don't think you are town shooting yourself in the foot I think generally townies have been shooting themselves in the foot by lynching based on this "town shouldn't do X" logic. Now seeing as we just had that discussion I think it is more likely scum!liopoil pushes the wagon that "town shouldn't do X" than that town!liopoil actually thinks spiritbears is scummy for hammering a town read.

My second issue with this is that it is a completely safe legitimate unprovable wagon which I am being extra cautious of. I mean yes sb had a town read yes he hammered him, I don't think that means he is any more likely to be scum, so you saying he did that is safe and in my opinion pushing a townie lynch, so I find you scummy for it.

2) this is something else I find really scummy, you decide I have a bad reasoning for finding you scummy and say I think your townie(I wasn't saying that) then piggyback onto the same statement that I a scummy because "how do I know your town" I mean really that is so much of a jump to an advantageous position for yourself and it something I find scum more likely to do(it's very similar to the tactic ash used against me previously) you sweep my argument under the rug and exclaim I'm scummy in the same breath without any response or reason.

I really REALLY like mcmc coming back to give us this more detailed explanation.  I wish I'd gotten it in the first post (that Robz is poking at originally, albeit half-heartedly).  The clarity he adds here is very interesting, and does make a good argument for scum!liopoil.

Overall, despite the strong argument from mcmc on D2, I'm going to stick with my instincts following my D1 vote.  vote: Robz
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