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[spiritbears]

Well, all 8 players seem to think I'm scummy, so I can't disagree here.  I actually think all 8 players have said they would be okay lynching me, right?

Unofficially:

nkirbit (4): mail-mi, yuma, Robz888, spiritbears

I've stated willingness before (though I'm right now backpedaling 100% on an nkirbit lynch based on this recent string of events, this is much too supported to be scum, correct?). That's 5. Then there's:

lio

I see the Nkirbit case and could very well vote for him.

So that's 6.

mcmc

lol but really I like robz case on chairs and yumas case on nk, I'm thinking they are town and are making some good cases.

So that's 7.

chairs

Also, yuma, thank you for the post on nkirbit.  You make a very interesting and fairly compelling argument.  I'm not sold on switching my vote, but you've given me something to think about for sure.

So yeah. 8.

I declare this wagon on a townie. I now am viewing mcmc and nkirbit as town. I return to vote: yuma as my strongest read.

PPE: lots of posts.

I said this earlier and was shouted down...but I'm with you on this volt
vote yumas

[nkirbit]

I need to think about Yuma.  I'm not sure yet.

[liopoil]

So yeah. 8.

I declare this wagon on a townie. I now am viewing mcmc and nkirbit as town. I return to vote: yuma as my strongest read.

PPE: lots of posts.

That's nonsense!! there's no way that nkirbit's partner should he be scum is going to say that he isn't going to vote for nkirbit. Infact, what I said makes sense. If nkirbit is scum, from a neutral perspective, I could very well be his partner. You absolutely cannot declare it a wagon on a townie because of that.

that said, the case on nkirbit is mainly that he supported all the wagons at weird timings. That's not enough for me. I actually find Yuma suspicious for doing a similar thing if I remember correctly. He has seemed to be the starter of many wagons, mail-mi, nkirbit come to mind at first.

I also really don't like spiritbears voting for nkirbit at all, based on his previous stances.

So I think spiritbears and Yuma are my top two "people to look at" right now.

[Voltaire]

So yeah. 8.

I declare this wagon on a townie. I now am viewing mcmc and nkirbit as town. I return to vote: yuma as my strongest read.

That's nonsense!! there's no way that nkirbit's partner should he be scum is going to say that he isn't going to vote for nkirbit. Infact, what I said makes sense. If nkirbit is scum, from a neutral perspective, I could very well be his partner. You absolutely cannot declare it a wagon on a townie because of that.

Well, yes. That's why I'll FoS: chairs, mcmc, and lio for saying it but not voting it (perhaps hoping that I'd hammer).

I had a post with this FoS written, then decided it went without saying, then saw your post, then decided to say it.

[liopoil]

wait, why is that suspicious? that's only if he's scum, which you think he isn't...

[Voltaire]

wait, why is that suspicious? that's only if he's scum, which you think he isn't...

Do I have everything backwards? There's a chance I have everything backwards.

So how do you feel about everyone being willing to vote nkirbit then (and their relative intensities)? What's your read on nkirbit now?

[liopoil]

I don't think everyone being willing to lynch nkirbit means that nkirbit is town. however, I think the case is weaker than some other things we have, and nkirbit's reaction seems genuine. That's why I'm leaning town on him.

[spiritbears]

So yeah. 8.

I declare this wagon on a townie. I now am viewing mcmc and nkirbit as town. I return to vote: yuma as my Yuma ngest read.

PPE: lots of posts.

That's nonsense!! there's no way that nkirbit's partner should he be scum is going to say that he isn't going to vote for nkirbit. Infact, what I said makes sense. If nkirbit is scum, from a neutral perspective, I could very well be his partner. You absolutely cannot declare it a wagon on a townie because of that.

that said, the case on nkirbit is mainly that he supported all the wagons at weird timings. That's not enough for me. I actually find Yuma suspicious for doing a similar thing if I remember correctly. He has seemed to be the starter of many wagons, mail-mi, nkirbit come to mind at first.

I also really don't like spiritbears voting for nkirbit at all, based on his previous stances.

So I think spiritbears and Yuma are my top two "people to look at" right now.

Yes. I probsbly deserve that.  I was swayed by yumas timeline and a seeming lack of defense from nk.
But I did note whst was wrong with yumas unvote
And yes my view of nk has not been consistent. I have probably stood up for him more than Anyone. If he flips scum I'm sure it will hurt me.  But I have also been pretty consistently on yumas case.  Volts post made me take notice of just how big the wagon actually was....with yumabeing primarily responsible. If nk flips scum he deserves big credit. But if nk flips town...well you know how I feel about that already

[Voltaire]

I don't think everyone being willing to lynch nkirbit means that nkirbit is town. however, I think the case is weaker than some other things we have, and nkirbit's reaction seems genuine. That's why I'm leaning town on him.

Well, yes, leaning. I'm leaning town on nkirbit, if you're easier with me using that phrase. Everything is relative to D1. I'm also leaning town on mcmc, but the more he doesn't post the weaker that read gets (obviously).

[liopoil]

Oh, I have no problem with what terms of certainty you use. I don't think that everyone not being opposed (not quite true ; spiritbears), is a sign that nkirbit is town at all. See scum!kooshie getting lynched D1 of bankers. Nobody opposed her lynch, and 2 of her 3 buddies were on the wagon. I think that's null.

[Voltaire]

Oh, I have no problem with what terms of certainty you use. I don't think that everyone not being opposed (not quite true ; spiritbears), is a sign that nkirbit is town at all. See scum!kooshie getting lynched D1 of bankers. Nobody opposed her lynch, and 2 of her 3 buddies were on the wagon. I think that's null.

Isn't that bad play by scum then? I didn't follow that game, but I did read the ending out of curiosity due to all the referencing it got (and here they are again).

[yuma]

Oh, I have no problem with what terms of certainty you use. I don't think that everyone not being opposed (not quite true ; spiritbears), is a sign that nkirbit is town at all. See scum!kooshie getting lynched D1 of bankers. Nobody opposed her lynch, and 2 of her 3 buddies were on the wagon. I think that's null.

I disagree. Bankers was a large game. Bussing was possible there. This is a 9 player game with 2 scum. Bussing day1 just isn't a very good idea. Because then you are just one lynch away from a loss and have to get all the way to 2 town and 1 scum day3 and mislynch there to win. Bussing in a 9 player game is just bad, bad, bad day1.

So, yes this has become one of my biggest reservations regarding nkirbit.

And sb: yes, you are right that I want to be in control. I am the only person I can trust in this game thus far and I want to be in as much control as I want... I don't know why that makes me scummy though? Because to me... I want to be in control regardless of my alignment...

[yuma]

@ volt and sb...

your votes on me eariler were quite a while ago. Do you have anything to add to them after all of this text and time has passed or are they completely predicated on the same stuff as before. Either way can you remind me of what your votes are actually about?

[yuma]

@ volt and sb...

your votes on me eariler were quite a while ago. Do you have anything to add to them after all of this text and time has passed or are they completely predicated on the same stuff as before. Either way can you remind me of what your votes are actually about?

If I can ask, I would prefer spiritbears to answer this question first.

[Voltaire]

@ volt and sb...

your votes on me eariler were quite a while ago. Do you have anything to add to them after all of this text and time has passed or are they completely predicated on the same stuff as before. Either way can you remind me of what your votes are actually about?

Scum doesn't want to be seen as tunneling a townie. So scum tests the waters to see who they can get the town to mislynch. I feel you've been doing this. I've got at least one, if not more posts about this. See them before.

And based on my town read on nkirbit now, I see you as having successfully driven a wagon on a townie. It's not a slam-dunk case! But it's my strongest read, and so I want my vote there. I think sb has a problem with your unvote - I don't.

If I can ask, I would prefer spiritbears to answer this question first.

Until I think you're town, I won't follow-the-leader unless I see a darn good reason to. And I think you'd agree were you in my shoes.

I am the only person I can trust in this game thus far and I want to be in as much control as I want

[yuma]

@ volt and sb...

your votes on me eariler were quite a while ago. Do you have anything to add to them after all of this text and time has passed or are they completely predicated on the same stuff as before. Either way can you remind me of what your votes are actually about?

Scum doesn't want to be seen as tunneling a townie. So scum tests the waters to see who they can get the town to mislynch. I feel you've been doing this. I've got at least one, if not more posts about this. See them before.

And based on my town read on nkirbit now, I see you as having successfully driven a wagon on a townie. It's not a slam-dunk case! But it's my strongest read, and so I want my vote there. I think sb has a problem with your unvote - I don't.

If I can ask, I would prefer spiritbears to answer this question first.

Until I think you're town, I won't follow-the-leader unless I see a darn good reason to. And I think you'd agree were you in my shoes.

I am the only person I can trust in this game thus far and I want to be in as much control as I want

well I wanted sb to go first because from my memory he has twice now said... "good point voltaire" I agree adn then voted for me. I wanted to hear his logic first before you presented your case... but o well.

[Voltaire]

wait, why is that suspicious? that's only if he's scum, which you think he isn't...

Do I have everything backwards? There's a chance I have everything backwards.

OK, I think I finally figured out what I was trying to say!

"Traditional" scum placement on a D1 town wagon is 1 on, 1 off, right? So assuming 1 scum is already on the wagon, FoS those three for setting themselves up to be off-wagon if needed.

...that may not actually make sense. But it is what was in my head when I replied to your post.

[Voltaire]

You know what? unvote. I want to do a re-read of yuma so I don't feel like I'm recycling (reading him in ZM14 too, where I know he was town and chewed through mafia [though that game is obviously different with high odds of success and iffy scum play] so I have something to compare). And hopefully by that time more people have weighed in on the nkirbit circumstances.

[Voltaire]

(reading him in ZM14 too, where I know he was town and chewed through mafia [though that game is obviously different with high odds of success and iffy scum play] so I have something to compare)

Because if townYuma is as awesome as everyone says, I want to listen to townYuma! Just going to start with a Yuma I know is town...

[chairs]

(reading him in ZM14 too, where I know he was town and chewed through mafia [though that game is obviously different with high odds of success and iffy scum play] so I have something to compare)

Because if townYuma is as awesome as everyone says, I want to listen to townYuma! Just going to start with a Yuma I know is town...

I'd never thought to go back to games people had previously played to try to get a psych read on them.  I like this idea a lot!

[nkirbit]

After thinking about it, I would be absolutely opposed to lynching Yuma today.  We can't lynch the strongest voices.  If there are scum, we can hopefully have wagon analysis later to catch them, but I would much, much rather lynch a lurker today than someone who has been present unless someone makes a huge slip-up.

At this point, I have an advantage that the rest of you do not have:  I am able to do wagon analysis on a confirmed town member and see what I come up with.  The rest of you can do analysis, but you can't be sure that it's on a town member, but if you think I'm town, it's a good place to start looking.  I'm going to start looking in the near-future, and will be back at some point with what I find.

[Robz888]

Not sure what to make of this "let's buddy yuma to death!" thing everyone is doing, except note it.

[mcmcsalot]

I just haven't been around, vote: nrkbit I actually think 8 people stating votes and not doing it makes him way more likely to be scum. Scum would have jumped on it. Also volt(I think it was volt) just have town reads and fos on the same people very close I a row. Super scummy

[liopoil]

I hate this buddy yuma to death thing.

nkirbit, playing like that makes it super-easy for scum. All they have to do is talk a lot and they don't get lynched! We absolutely must consider lynching Yuma.

[nkirbit]

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.

Mail-Mi made this post about Mcmc after three people, (Lio, myself, and Robz, in that order) had voted for mcmc.

Am i still on Nk? If I am, I like yuma's case and would like to keep my vote there.

Mail-Mi made this post about me when three people (Himself, Yuma, Robz) had votes on me, and a fourth (Voltaire) had voted and unvoted because he didn't want to put me at L-1 so early.

In both cases, mail-mi thought that the person had done something suspicious.  In both cases, three other players had in quick succession agreed and either voted or announced their intention to vote.  Yet, mail-mi had wildly different reactions.  Why the inconsistency?