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[Robz888]

Part of my suspicion on nkirbit is that he IS playing well. He's handling pressure well, not panicking, etc. And I know he's relatively knew but I think he has the makings of a great player. So I'm looking for some decent newbie scum play from him, and I think I may be seeing it.

[nkirbit]

We haven't heard from lio in awhile. Other than that I think everyone's checked in recently...right?

Mcmc as well.

[nkirbit]

Yuma:  I don't see why you see a trend in me that you don't see in Robz.  Both Robz and I voted for mcmc, for the exact same reason, one post after the other.

I voted for mail-mi after you had, and Robz voted for myself after you had.

I voted for Chairs after Robz had, but Robz hadn't voted until I had applied some pressure on Chairs and made it clear that I was suspicious of what Chairs was saying.  I guess it's important that Robz voted for chairs before I did, but I think you're incorrect in saying that there's a trend for me where there isn't for Robz.  We're both acting in a similar way.

Which makes me suspicious of Robz for finding me suspicious for something he himself is doing.  Hm.

Now that I've cleared up some pronouns, what do you think about this, Robz?  For me, there are two things:

1)  Robz finding me suspicious for something that he himself did.
2)  Yuma finding me, and not Robz, suspicious for something that we both did.

This is independent of whether or not you find my defense scummy or good or whatever.

Do you find it odd that Yuma singled me out?  Or does it make sense for town!Yuma to do that?

[nkirbit]

I guess by the time Yuma had voted for me, you had yet to vote for me, obviously, so there's a little issue with the timeline in there that you should keep in mind.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1.7

mail-mi (2): liopoil, nkirbit
Robz888 (2): chairs, spiritbears
nkirbit (3): mail-mi, yuma, Robz888

Not voting: mcmcsalot, Voltaire,

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Wednesday, July 3rd

[Robz888]

Yuma:  I don't see why you see a trend in me that you don't see in Robz.  Both Robz and I voted for mcmc, for the exact same reason, one post after the other.

I voted for mail-mi after you had, and Robz voted for myself after you had.

I voted for Chairs after Robz had, but Robz hadn't voted until I had applied some pressure on Chairs and made it clear that I was suspicious of what Chairs was saying.  I guess it's important that Robz voted for chairs before I did, but I think you're incorrect in saying that there's a trend for me where there isn't for Robz.  We're both acting in a similar way.

Which makes me suspicious of Robz for finding me suspicious for something he himself is doing.  Hm.

Now that I've cleared up some pronouns, what do you think about this, Robz?  For me, there are two things:

1)  Robz finding me suspicious for something that he himself did.
2)  Yuma finding me, and not Robz, suspicious for something that we both did.

This is independent of whether or not you find my defense scummy or good or whatever.

Do you find it odd that Yuma singled me out?  Or does it make sense for town!Yuma to do that?

Ugh. I'm still having trouble deciphering this.

[Robz888]

Chairs's vote put someone to L-1.

My vote was only the second vote against someone (or so I thought). I liked yuma's case and wanted it to be taken more seriously, so I added my vote to it.

[nkirbit]

My votes were the second for mail-mi, the second for mcmc, and the second for chairs.  I made the mcmc vote because I was frustrated with him for making what I thought was a VT claim.  I made the votes for chairs and mail-mi because I found them both scummy and wanted to highlight why I found them scummy.  You had the second vote for myself because you found me scummy and wanted to highlight why you found me scummy.  You had the first vote for chairs because you found him scummy and wanted to highlight why you found him scummy.

I don't particularly see why Yuma is saying this:

But the difference is that in nkirbit there is a trend... 3 different wagons on 3 different players who kinda looked like they might be easy lynches. with robz and voltaire... not so much of a trend as this is more of a solitary incident.

When there doesn't appear to be much of a difference between your votes and my votes.  I don't see why I have a trend of voting this way when you do not.

[liopoil]

I'm here, catching up now!

[Voltaire]

I'm here, catching up now!

Bring mcmc with you. 

[spiritbears]

This had done nothing to change my reads...only strengthened them
Scum to chum
Robz
Mai
Yuma
Chairs
Volt
Mc
Lio
Nk

[chairs]

If nk is scum, he's being awfully calm about it.  Conversely, if "good scum" doesn't panic, and Robz plays good scum, then this is (slightly) town!Robz, because he seems alarmed.  But then we get into my new favorite acronym, WIFOM 

[mcmcsalot]

Okie dokie, I'm caught up. In all honestly you guys droned on and didn't talk about a whole lot. I've got scum reads on nk and chairs and town reads on robz yuma and sb. Not sure on volt or liopoil or mail.

[spiritbears]

Okie dokie, I'm caught up. In all honestly you guys droned on and didn't talk about a whole lot. I've got scum reads on nk and chairs and town reads on robz yuma and sb. Not sure on volt or liopoil or mail.

Hey mc. Welcome back
Tell me more about nk.  What do you see there? 

[mcmcsalot]

nkirbit:

he voted for mcmc pretty opportunistically for the VT claim.

Unvoted when mcmc got to L-1 and never really looked back at it.

He has slowly eased into the mail-mi vote starting off with a "I am not sure about this yuma..." to questioning mail-mi and then a "mail-mi has been kinda scummy" to an actual vote.

He has also been suspicious of chairs. Right now if this were a bastard game and everyone were town, I would say that chairs and mail-mi would be considered the easy mislynches. However, like I said before I don't know their alignments and if they actually are "easy mislynches" but it does make me more wary of them.

He has been open with his reads. yuma and sb town, voltaire, mcmc (now he is a null read!) and lio null.

Liopoil:

His LVS self referencing is a tactic that I could see as scum, but alone isn't enough to be suspicious of.

He was also on the mcmc wagon, but had started it up, but not for the VT stuff.

he has defended... well maybe not defended, but not found suspicious, chairs.

and also joined the mail-mi wagon after I did.

Of the two I find nkirbit the scummier. He is in a position where I would expect scum to be, kinda in the middle, not lurking not being extremely vocal. He has been on the three main "easy" wagons in mcmc, chairs and mail-mi but has stayed away from the more controversial votes (yuma, robz). I still think mail-mi is suspicious, but I am going to try out a vote: nkirbit

[mcmcsalot]

lol but really I like robz case on chairs and yumas case on nk, I'm thinking they are town and are making some good cases. I noticed the thing with you and yuma and your suggestion that yuma was making the same case he did as scum, I do 100% know yuma to be a similar scum player to me(which is why I think he often catches me) and he will make the same cases as town and scum. Its something scummy he has seen and thats decent for day one.

[spiritbears]

Yeah but yumas whole case on nk was his silly Vt vote on you...that's just not a case.  It's totally weaksauce, which is surprising you would follow it.  I realize it's yuma so it carries some weight....but it's really a bad bad case.

[nkirbit]

Yeah but yumas whole case on nk was his silly Vt vote on you...that's just not a case.  It's totally weaksauce, which is surprising you would follow it.  I realize it's yuma so it carries some weight....but it's really a bad bad case.

That wasn't yuma's whole case

[spiritbears]

Yeah but yumas whole case on nk was his silly Vt vote on you...that's just not a case.  It's totally weaksauce, which is surprising you would follow it.  I realize it's yuma so it carries some weight....but it's really a bad bad case.

That wasn't yuma's whole case

Yes it is....it's right there above this^^^  it is almost exclusively about your mc vote

[nkirbit]

Yeah but yumas whole case on nk was his silly Vt vote on you...that's just not a case.  It's totally weaksauce, which is surprising you would follow it.  I realize it's yuma so it carries some weight....but it's really a bad bad case.

That wasn't yuma's whole case

Yes it is....it's right there above this^^^  it is almost exclusively about your mc vote

No, it's not.  It's that I made a series of votes which, taken all together, can be viewed as scummy.  The vote on mcmc was one of them, the others were my votes on mail-mi and chairs.  I don't think he had a problem with any of those votes individually

[liopoil]

Okay caught up. thoughts:

And some more reads: you(ma) (for actually scum hunting, even though its on me) and volt (mostly a gut feel) are looking towny, SB's " mod eouldnt make newbie scum" is horribly horribly wrong. I think I'll Vote: nkirbit because of reasons stated before.

what? you say essentially, "Town reads on Yuma and Volt for being towny, SB is wrong, I'll vote for nkirbit". Which reasons stated before? And giving townreads for scumhunting is silly, everyone scumhunts! (especially yuma)

Spiritbears has a point about the case on mail-mi being similar to the one at the end of mean girls. However, it was actually scummy then and it is still scummy now, as Yuma says.

I'll ask shraeye, I think he might answer, and I'm pretty sure of what answer he will give:

Shraeye, would you, under any circumstances, re-roll the setup based on something like giving a newbie a good introduction to the game.

This is unnecessary. The answer is NO. It would unbalance the game if one person just was automatically town because you can't make a newbie a scum. I mean honestly, it's absurd. So no.

completely agree, just wanted confirmation. I don't need it now though, we're past that.

Yuma, what do you think about robz and Voltaire immediately voting for me after you posted your case?  Are you worried about their votes on me?

I definitely agree that this is a shout out for help.

nkirbit has also been on all the recent wagons, which while town does it, I have to believe that scum does it much more. Scum will accept any mislynch that they can get.

Mail-mi can be an easy mislynch. In Samurai and Ninja's, I realized this, and so was against his lynch on D2. the problem was, he was actually scum that time. So I am unsure how to read him now, but he's been scummy here, so I figured I'll treat him like everyone else, and vote for him. It's quite possible that he's the easy mislynch here again.

I have read all the posts now, but I feel a bit behind.  I see the Nkirbit case and could very well vote for him. I'll Unvote for now. Another person I'm wary of right now is spiritbears. He has defended nkirbit and mail-mi oddly, I am not sure yet it that's scummy or not.

[nkirbit]

I'm not sure what to think about SB, honestly.  I'm not convinced he understands Yuma's case.. he said it was mostly based off of my vote on Mcmc, which is not true.  I guess that's a part of it, but that's not what Yuma finds me scummy for.  He's looking at the bigger picture.

If SB is town, then he's simply misunderstanding a case.  From my point of view, I have to either decide if this is town SB misunderstanding, scum SB misunderstanding, or scum SB manipulating what Yuma said.  I don't think scum would try such a tactic to try and protect a town member (remember, this is from my point of view!).. it's just too risky to try that, I would think.  So I do think SB is just misunderstanding Yuma's case, and that's not a reason for me to find him scummy.

[nkirbit]

lol but really I like robz case on chairs and yumas case on nk, I'm thinking they are town and are making some good cases. I noticed the thing with you and yuma and your suggestion that yuma was making the same case he did as scum, I do 100% know yuma to be a similar scum player to me(which is why I think he often catches me) and he will make the same cases as town and scum. Its something scummy he has seen and thats decent for day one.

How is what mcmc doing here at all different than what I did?  I actually gave new reasons for why I had my views instead of completely adopting someone else's case?

[mail-mi]

Okay caught up. thoughts:

And some more reads: you(ma) (for actually scum hunting, even though its on me) and volt (mostly a gut feel) are looking towny, SB's " mod eouldnt make newbie scum" is horribly horribly wrong. I think I'll Vote: nkirbit because of reasons stated before.

what? you say essentially, "Town reads on Yuma and Volt for being towny, SB is wrong, I'll vote for nkirbit". Which reasons stated before? And giving townreads for scumhunting is silly, everyone scumhunts! (especially yuma)

Lurking a little. Then Yuma made a case and I thought it was a good one, so i kept my vote there.

Scumhunting: But yuma's one of the only ones actually doing it! besides, its just some towncred

[spiritbears]

I'm not sure what to think about SB, honestly.  I'm not convinced he understands Yuma's case.. he said it was mostly based off of my vote on Mcmc, which is not true.  I guess that's a part of it, but that's not what Yuma finds me scummy for.  He's looking at the bigger picture.

If SB is town, then he's simply misunderstanding a case.  From my point of view, I have to either decide if this is town SB misunderstanding, scum SB misunderstanding, or scum SB manipulating what Yuma said.  I don't think scum would try such a tactic to try and protect a town member (remember, this is from my point of view!).. it's just too risky to try that, I would think.  So I do think SB is just misunderstanding Yuma's case, and that's not a reason for me to find him scummy.

I don't know whst you're trying to prove here.  Yumas case is not complicated. Read the damn post.  2/3 if the case (which has been repeated ad nauseam) revolves around your mc vote unvote....he only breifly mentions mai, because there is nothing to talk about there.  And doesn't say anything about the chairs wagon...again bcsuse their is nothing there....but hell if you want to contradict that and get yourself lynched I will just get out of your way.....