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Author Topic: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 3)  (Read 97287 times)

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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #375 on: June 24, 2013, 03:52:08 pm »

I absolutely did not come into this game thinking "be wary of Yuma". I certainly have a high degree of respect for both your town and scum play. but I did not jump on your case early...I watched and waited patiently until I saw something stick out that really bothered me....it had nothing whatsoever to do with your meta...I hope you can appreciate that.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #376 on: June 24, 2013, 03:53:05 pm »

Yuma, thank you for taking the time to reply. I do understand why where you're coming from is frustrating. But I stand by my choices so far.

Quote
Are you "bringing things up and probing and trying to get answers" or are you just offering up subtle scummy wagons for the town to jump on? I lean toward the second. (Yes, you did state you think mcmc is town - that's your only town read that has stuck out to me). And as you admit, scumYuma would do the same thing.

why toward the second? what makes you think the second as opposed to the first? There must be something yes, but until you do, my automatic reaction is "tricky yuma syndrome" because it has happened repeatedly in the past.
Well, knowing that possibility about Robz, what do you think of him so far? Your opinions on chairs and mail-mi haven't changed lately, I assume (since nothing much new has come of those two lately).

Your attitude/tone is what has me leaning towards the second. I'm getting a "you [Voltaire/sb] can't do that" tone from your posts, and I don't see town advancing arguments that get boiled down that way. Think of it how Eevee (I'm pretty sure) has written he's best at reading emotions. Not saying I'm best at that, or even good, but it's where I'm coming from.

And yes, of course your meta is hurting you with me, I will freely admit that. When you were scum in ZM1 you were super-town and had me fooled until your hammer slip. And I myself have an established meta of voting for my top town reads (well, it's more complicated than that, but that's the best summary) under the theory that scum know playing scummy is obvscum so they play towny. That's why I've landed on you so far.

And Robz:
Quote
I would have to be really overwhelmingly convinced of your guilt to risk losing town you on Day 1, though. Maybe that's not fair to other players, but well, I want to win.
You understand our suspicions - do you see anything about yuma that makes you lean town or scum on him?
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #377 on: June 24, 2013, 03:53:43 pm »

Maybe that's not fair to other players, but well, I want to win.
If your wincon is the same as mine then it's totally fair to me.  ;D
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #378 on: June 24, 2013, 03:56:58 pm »

You understand our suspicions - do you see anything about yuma that makes you lean town or scum on him?

Honestly, I would just be guessing at this point.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #379 on: June 24, 2013, 03:59:02 pm »

You understand our suspicions - do you see anything about yuma that makes you lean town or scum on him?

Honestly, I would just be guessing at this point.

I mean I can elaborate more, I don't think it helps matters if I do, though. I'd have to really, really think yuma is scum to want to lynch him on Day 1. He's a really valuable player if he is town. And I think we will have better evidence regarding his alignment on a later day.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #380 on: June 24, 2013, 03:59:09 pm »

I absolutely did not come into this game thinking "be wary of Yuma". I certainly have a high degree of respect for both your town and scum play. but I did not jump on your case early...I watched and waited patiently until I saw something stick out that really bothered me....it had nothing whatsoever to do with your meta...I hope you can appreciate that.

absolutely I can appreciate that
Yuma, thank you for taking the time to reply. I do understand why where you're coming from is frustrating. But I stand by my choices so far.

That is fair.

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chairs

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #381 on: June 24, 2013, 04:31:12 pm »

i'll try to elaborate in a post a little later (snagging a quick "my thoughts in 30 seconds or less" moment) but right now the past few pages have made me trend towards scum!yuma (slightly, not as strongly as others seem to think, primarily due to town claim but also due to long argument with sb), scum!Robz (implicit town claim), and scum!sb (argument with yuma could also benefit scum!sb if it makes yuma look more scummy to the point he gets D1 lynched, especially if he's as valuable a player as town!Robz (assuming it's town!Robz and not scum!Robz) seems to believe).

I realize that's pretty short, and I know you guys scumhunt better than I do, but I don't think it's to my (or anybody else's) benefit to just sit under the table.

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #382 on: June 24, 2013, 04:32:49 pm »

i'll try to elaborate in a post a little later (snagging a quick "my thoughts in 30 seconds or less" moment) but right now the past few pages have made me trend towards scum!yuma (slightly, not as strongly as others seem to think, primarily due to town claim but also due to long argument with sb), scum!Robz (implicit town claim), and scum!sb (argument with yuma could also benefit scum!sb if it makes yuma look more scummy to the point he gets D1 lynched, especially if he's as valuable a player as town!Robz (assuming it's town!Robz and not scum!Robz) seems to believe).

I realize that's pretty short, and I know you guys scumhunt better than I do, but I don't think it's to my (or anybody else's) benefit to just sit under the table.

Your argument that I am scum is that I made an implicit town claim? I think you are misremembering. It was mcmc who did that.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #383 on: June 24, 2013, 04:36:15 pm »

i'll try to elaborate in a post a little later (snagging a quick "my thoughts in 30 seconds or less" moment) but right now the past few pages have made me trend towards scum!yuma (slightly, not as strongly as others seem to think, primarily due to town claim but also due to long argument with sb), scum!Robz (implicit town claim), and scum!sb (argument with yuma could also benefit scum!sb if it makes yuma look more scummy to the point he gets D1 lynched, especially if he's as valuable a player as town!Robz (assuming it's town!Robz and not scum!Robz) seems to believe).

I realize that's pretty short, and I know you guys scumhunt better than I do, but I don't think it's to my (or anybody else's) benefit to just sit under the table.
Yes, of course! Info/reads are better than none. But I am a bit confused by what you're saying - that yuma has a town claim. We all have a town claim...it's assumed that we've all mass-claimed town at the game's start. There's no advantage to town not claiming town, and no advantage for scum claiming scum, and no advantage for anyone to not claim alignment (all of this in a normal game, of course)...so I don't follow.
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #384 on: June 24, 2013, 04:38:47 pm »

For me, Chairs still has been the most obviously scummy person... he's done quite a few things that have raised alarms for me.  He's been overly agreeable, in the sense that he's changed views because others have asked him to (Posts #219, as one example, and also reminding us that he agreed to not no lynch because that's what we wanted), threw out a bunch of vague scumreads without initially backing them up, only backing them up when asked, finding a player scummy for something from outside of the game, etc.  Had any other player been doing the things Chairs did, I would find them very scummy.  BUT, chairs is a new player, so it is not necessarily as revealing in this case.  I still have my suspicions.

I don't at all buy the case on Yuma.  From my point of view, Yuma's doing things that both scum!Yuma and town!Yuma would do... how in the world are you supposed to determine if he's scum or town from that?  I have a very difficult time reading him, but nothing SB or Voltaire has said has convinced me he's scum instead of town.  I just have no clue at this point.

I'm reading SB as town.  If you go back and re-read the initial game with the thought "SB is scum", there are a number of posts that jump out at me as "oh, that makes sense".  I tried reading the new game with the same thought, and didn't come up with anything that would make sense as him being scum.  Maybe he got better with his quick practice, but I'd guess he's just town.

I'm not sure what to think about Robz.  His main view so far has been heavily pushing the chairs=scummy view.  It could be true, but I think it could easily not be.. I have no read on Robz at this point though.
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #385 on: June 24, 2013, 04:47:06 pm »

Mail-Mi is an interesting one to me.  He starts off with

From my quick reread I have a null to scummyish read on nkirbit. And the scummyish part of it is just because he hasn't had as much of a presence here than usual.

I think I'll Vote: nkirbit because of reasons stated before.

So he's voting me simply because I haven't had much of a presence.  Okay, I guess.

What's worrying me is the seemingly contradictory posts.  We had the one that Yuma pointed out earlier:

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.

Where the two sentences lend themselves to different conclusions.  We also have:

Ready, set, reactions!

Chairs wagon: meh. He doesn't strike me as super scummy. Also I agree with yumas stance.

My wagon: yep I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that.

Reads:

Right now, chairs is on the more scummy side and mcmc on the townier side, but only barely. don't know about Robz, he's always changing everything up.

Again, Mail-mi is saying two different things in the same post:  I think this person is on the scummy side!  I don't think this person is scummy!  If you think they're scummy, why would you earlier say that they're not?  If you think someone's scummy, you should want everyone else to think that, so they get lynched!  If you don't think they're scummy, you shouldn't say that they're scummy, because you don't want a mislynch!  It looks like you're trying to play both sides, and you've done it multiple times.

I know mcmc was JK in abandoned game, were there any others? Just curious.

Is this scum!mcmc fishing for info about how players play PRs?  I don't see why this is a topic town has a desire to discuss.
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #386 on: June 24, 2013, 04:48:30 pm »

Finishing off my reads, Voltaire, Lio, and mcmc are all pretty much null to me.  I don't have strong opinions on any of them.
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chairs

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #387 on: June 24, 2013, 04:49:16 pm »

Yuma, I think I agree that you seem MORE contrarian so far than usual. Their suspicion of you doesn't surprise me at all.

I would have to be really overwhelmingly convinced of your guilt to risk losing town you on Day 1, though. Maybe that's not fair to other players, but well, I want to win.

here's the implicit "I'm definitely town guys" post I mentioned.  I understand that we're all claiming town by default, but from a psychological standpoint if I find a way to say "I'm town" without SAYING "I'm town" and then you agree with the main thrust of my post, it will make you more likely later to think I'm more town-y... shouldn't it?  This is the reason I mention the implicit town claim.

I'm not saying you couldn't be town!Robz, but if I gather correctly we're supposed to be discussing our opinions (in hopes that scum!??? will make an argument that won't pass the sniff test, either now or later), and my opinion right now is that you are at least slightly on the scum!Robz side of things.  I've not played prior games with you, so I'm strictly basing this on how you've presented yourself this thread.

--

Unrelated to town/scum!Robz:

I see the argument you're making in your post, nkirbit.  I hadn't heavily considered a scum!mail-mi, but you make a good point.

yuma

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #388 on: June 24, 2013, 04:50:10 pm »

I don't at all buy the case on Yuma.  From my point of view, Yuma's doing things that both scum!Yuma and town!Yuma would do... how in the world are you supposed to determine if he's scum or town from that?  I have a very difficult time reading him, but nothing SB or Voltaire has said has convinced me he's scum instead of town.  I just have no clue at this point.

this is ultimately exactly what I was trying to ask both spiritbears and voltaire. The how? Both have answered that a little bit better and I see more where they are coming from whereas before I felt like they were saying, yuma is playing as his normal self (regardless of town or mafia) so I will vote him, just in case he is mafia... But the conversation has helped me see that this is less so...
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #389 on: June 24, 2013, 04:52:41 pm »

I don't at all buy the case on Yuma.  From my point of view, Yuma's doing things that both scum!Yuma and town!Yuma would do... how in the world are you supposed to determine if he's scum or town from that?  I have a very difficult time reading him, but nothing SB or Voltaire has said has convinced me he's scum instead of town.  I just have no clue at this point.

this is ultimately exactly what I was trying to ask both spiritbears and voltaire. The how? Both have answered that a little bit better and I see more where they are coming from whereas before I felt like they were saying, yuma is playing as his normal self (regardless of town or mafia) so I will vote him, just in case he is mafia... But the conversation has helped me see that this is less so...

I need to reread the last page or so more carefully to read their reasonings.. I admit having skimmed them at this point, am going back now.  Perhaps they can convince me!
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #390 on: June 24, 2013, 04:54:48 pm »

We also have:

Ready, set, reactions!

Chairs wagon: meh. He doesn't strike me as super scummy. Also I agree with yumas stance.

My wagon: yep I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that.

Reads:

Right now, chairs is on the more scummy side and mcmc on the townier side, but only barely. don't know about Robz, he's always changing everything up.

Again, Mail-mi is saying two different things in the same post:  I think this person is on the scummy side!  I don't think this person is scummy!  If you think they're scummy, why would you earlier say that they're not?  If you think someone's scummy, you should want everyone else to think that, so they get lynched!  If you don't think they're scummy, you shouldn't say that they're scummy, because you don't want a mislynch!  It looks like you're trying to play both sides, and you've done it multiple times.
mail-mi, this is a good point by nkirbit and something I hadn't noticed myself. What do you actually think of chairs and why?
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mail-mi

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #391 on: June 24, 2013, 04:57:12 pm »

Mail-Mi is an interesting one to me.  He starts off with

From my quick reread I have a null to scummyish read on nkirbit. And the scummyish part of it is just because he hasn't had as much of a presence here than usual.

I think I'll Vote: nkirbit because of reasons stated before.

So he's voting me simply because I haven't had much of a presence.  Okay, I guess.

What's worrying me is the seemingly contradictory posts.  We had the one that Yuma pointed out earlier:

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.

Where the two sentences lend themselves to different conclusions.  We also have:

Ready, set, reactions!

Chairs wagon: meh. He doesn't strike me as super scummy. Also I agree with yumas stance.

My wagon: yep I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that.

Reads:

Right now, chairs is on the more scummy side and mcmc on the townier side, but only barely. don't know about Robz, he's always changing everything up.

Again, Mail-mi is saying two different things in the same post:  I think this person is on the scummy side!  I don't think this person is scummy!  If you think they're scummy, why would you earlier say that they're not?  If you think someone's scummy, you should want everyone else to think that, so they get lynched!  If you don't think they're scummy, you shouldn't say that they're scummy, because you don't want a mislynch!  It looks like you're trying to play both sides, and you've done it multiple times.

I know mcmc was JK in abandoned game, were there any others? Just curious.

Is this scum!mcmc fishing for info about how players play PRs?  I don't see why this is a topic town has a desire to discuss.
On chairs: he isn't super scummy (like Robz is saying), he's just a little bit scummy.

PPE: volt: see sbove
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

shraeye

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #392 on: June 24, 2013, 04:57:35 pm »

Vote Count 1.6

mail-mi (2): yuma, liopoil
chairs (2): Robz888, nkirbit
Robz888 (1): chairs
yuma (2): Voltaire, spiritbears
nkirbit (1): mail-mi

Not voting: mcmcsalot

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Wednesday, July 3rd
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 03:47:54 pm by shraeye »
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #393 on: June 24, 2013, 05:09:44 pm »

Well that makes sense NK. (Jk!)
No really I do agree with you on chairs.
Acted very scummy. And latest confusing posy has done nothing to change my read.
In Any other game and if we didn't know robz, I would say he's acted even scumier...quickhits robz=towmrobz
Nk...*reads towni ish...need more, I want more , I  want more.....
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chairs

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #394 on: June 24, 2013, 05:30:37 pm »

Vote Count 1.6

mail-mi (2): yuma, liopoil
chairs (2): Robz888, nkirbit
Robz888 (1): chairs
yuma (1): Voltaire
nkirbit (1): mail-mi
yuma (1): spiritbears

Not voting: mcmcsalot

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is 10:30pm forum time on Wednesday, July 3rd


So is that 2 votes for Yuma, then?  I want to make sure (since I put somebody under the crosshairs earlier) that I understand where we are on votes.

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #395 on: June 24, 2013, 10:55:48 pm »

lull
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #396 on: June 24, 2013, 11:06:21 pm »

Vote: Mail-mi

He's the most suspicious character to me so far.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #397 on: June 24, 2013, 11:47:19 pm »

Vote: Mail-mi

He's the most suspicious character to me so far.

but why
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #398 on: June 24, 2013, 11:47:35 pm »

is it weird that I am becoming more suspicious of the two players who are on the mail-mi wagon with me? (lio and nkirbit)

I'll answer that... no, it isn't. Because really mail-mi isn't super scummy. He has done some scummy stuff, but it is pretty slight. While I think he could be scum, this also has the markings of an easy mislynch and who wants to join onto easy mislynches? Scum. Well at least sometimes they do. other times they want to stay far away from them.

This is hard because obviously I don't know mail-mi's alignment and a lot of it is dependent on whether or not he is mafia and whether in fact he is an easy mislynch or not. Mail-mi has been lynched in 75% of the games he has been in as town. He gets lynched. But that stat alone doesn't negate that he has done something scummy.

I am going to look at lio and nkiribt, but mostly at this point I wouldn't really expect either of these players to make "scummy" plays, so I don't know if I will find anything.

I feel like robz has right now... I just don't know what to look for to find mafia in going back and rereading... That is I don't know what I am looking for until I see it... Dsell's case on me in the recent blitz game, WinterSpartan in Samurai's... And right now I haven't seen it.

Anyone up for a random lynch? We haven't tried that in ages...
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #399 on: June 24, 2013, 11:55:32 pm »

Vote: Mail-mi

He's the most suspicious character to me so far.

but why

I posted why I find him suspicious like 8 or so posts before yours.
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