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[mail-mi]

but ultimately it doesn't matter... what matters is that everyone can be just as likely to be scum, so I suggest we return to a regularly scheduled scum hunting...

mail-mi anyone?

Every day is Techno Free Tuesday! Not really, but that's what I feeling like. It never seems like he's around. I know that's not actually fair to him. I never notice him, and I don't know why, and he usually skates past me as scum. What has he said so far?

well there was the one post in particular I pointed out...

and then there is this:

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.

This screams to me of mail-mi trying to get on the town side of mcmc's future flip (I think he will flip town, I think mail-mi perhaps knows he will flip town) but at the same time slightly advocating the votes and the lynch by admitting that it was a suspicious post.. (it wasn't...)

which you said you disagreed with. Since then:

It was just a stream of thought. First thought: that wagon formed really quickly, I don't think mcmc is scum. Second thought: but that was a suspicious post. Hm.

Right now I have a townish read on mcmc because scum mcmc is calm cool and collecting. Town mcmc is more clumsy.

uses someone else's excuse for his post... nice and convienent. Has a weird read about mcmc, I don't remember mcmc being clumsy in this game...

Not clumsy, just more clumsy.

Ready, set, reactions!

Chairs wagon: meh. He doesn't strike me as super scummy. Also I agree with yumas stance.

My wagon: yep I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that.

Reads:

Right now, chairs is on the more scummy side and mcmc on the townier side, but only barely. don't know about Robz, he's always changing everything up.

For a reactions post... there is like nothing here. No commentary other than himself and chairs when there was other stuff going on.

The "yep, I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that"... well to me it looks like the "if I agree it is scummy maybe they will see that I have nothing to hide and stop looking at me" tactic.

And then super weak reads... everyone is null! except two really weak reads.

I was reacting to wagons.

And some more reads: you(ma) (for actually scum hunting, even though its on me) and volt (mostly a gut feel) are looking towny, SB's " mod eouldnt make newbie scum" is horribly horribly wrong. I think I'll Vote: nkirbit because of reasons stated before.

[spiritbears]

but ultimately it doesn't matter... what matters is that everyone can be just as likely to be scum, so I suggest we return to a regularly scheduled scum hunting...

mail-mi anyone?

Every day is Techno Free Tuesday! Not really, but that's what I feeling like. It never seems like he's around. I know that's not actually fair to him. I never notice him, and I don't know why, and he usually skates past me as scum. What has he said so far?

well there was the one post in particular I pointed out...

and then there is this:

Well that's too quick of a wagon for him to be scum. Although that was a suspicious post.

This screams to me of mail-mi trying to get on the town side of mcmc's future flip (I think he will flip town, I think mail-mi perhaps knows he will flip town) but at the same time slightly advocating the votes and the lynch by admitting that it was a suspicious post.. (it wasn't...)

which you said you disagreed with. Since then:

It was just a stream of thought. First thought: that wagon formed really quickly, I don't think mcmc is scum. Second thought: but that was a suspicious post. Hm.

Right now I have a townish read on mcmc because scum mcmc is calm cool and collecting. Town mcmc is more clumsy.

uses someone else's excuse for his post... nice and convienent. Has a weird read about mcmc, I don't remember mcmc being clumsy in this game...

Ready, set, reactions!

Chairs wagon: meh. He doesn't strike me as super scummy. Also I agree with yumas stance.

My wagon: yep I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that.

Reads:

Right now, chairs is on the more scummy side and mcmc on the townier side, but only barely. don't know about Robz, he's always changing everything up.

For a reactions post... there is like nothing here. No commentary other than himself and chairs when there was other stuff going on.

The "yep, I probably should have thought a bit more before posting that"... well to me it looks like the "if I agree it is scummy maybe they will see that I have nothing to hide and stop looking at me" tactic.

And then super weak reads... everyone is null! except two really weak reads.

This is almost entirely a copy of your case against him in mean girls.  You were wrong then as scum
You are wrong now too I think
vote yuma

[yuma]

which case in mean girls? At the end? I don't know... And I highly doubt it as this is a day1 case and is completely different from anything I would put together either as mafia or town on a later day (day4 or day5).

If you are referring to a day1 case on mail-mi in mean girls... I never put one together. I never voted for mail-mi day1.

[spiritbears]

Calling his reaction post weak and his reads mostly null...it's exactly what you pushed against him at the end....as scum

[spiritbears]

And I'm still kicking myself for buying it....

[yuma]

Calling his reaction post weak and his reads mostly null...it's exactly what you pushed against him at the end....as scum

well that is because it is... you guessed it!!! scummy!

It was an easy case to push then because it was scummy and you and others bought it. However, this game I am scum hunting. And he is playing scummy again.

The reason I think I am successful as mafia is because I create good cases that have merit as mafia and are very similar to my cases as town. In this game I am town and am scum hunting and again building, what I hope is, a good case.

So don't put down today's case just because yesterday's was created by scum. Take that into consideration when you view it, but don't just dismiss it because I was mafia last game.

[Voltaire]

Has a weird read about mcmc, I don't remember mcmc being clumsy in this game...

Actually I agree that mcmc has been clumsy, he sorta-claimed VT, then clarified he was claiming not-JK.

Though I do agree mail-mi has been meh overall. He's another wagon I don't like at this point.

[Voltaire]

In this game I am town and am scum hunting and again building, what I hope is, a good case.

I view it as a very weak case, as weak as the wagon on chairs. Then there's also your philosophy on Robz, which I actually do sorta buy, yet I find you scummy for it. I'm complex, I guess.

I'm comfortable leaving my vote on you right now. Robz, are you willing to vote for someone other than chairs?

And nkirbit, contribute more!

[yuma]

In this game I am town and am scum hunting and again building, what I hope is, a good case.

I view it as a very weak case, as weak as the wagon on chairs. Then there's also your philosophy on Robz, which I actually do sorta buy, yet I find you scummy for it. I'm complex, I guess.

I'm comfortable leaving my vote on you right now. Robz, are you willing to vote for someone other than chairs?

And nkirbit, contribute more!

of course it is a weak case! it is day1, like 3 days into day1. I have only had 1 case ever that was super, super strong day1. If I have a case that strong, don't worry, I'll let you know! But just because it is a weak case doesn't mean I shouldn't push it. It is the opposite because with time as I push it, it will either get stronger and grow or get weaker and die...

I am not sure what you mean about my philosophy on robz?

[Voltaire]

I am not sure what you mean about my philosophy on robz?

Just your "methinks he doth protest too much" theory that perhaps he rolled scum again.

[Robz888]

I'm comfortable leaving my vote on you right now. Robz, are you willing to vote for someone other than chairs?

Well, certainly.

[Robz888]

no way would shraeye reroll if a newbie rolled scum. No way.

You don't know that.
And who cares anyway. 
Chairs is not going to be lynched today no matter how scummy he acts.  That much is clear

I'll vote for chairs if I think he's scum, for sure. He could get lynched.

I'll ask shraeye, I think he might answer, and I'm pretty sure of what answer he will give:

Shraeye, would you, under any circumstances, re-roll the setup based on something like giving a newbie a good introduction to the game.

This is unnecessary. The answer is NO. It would unbalance the game if one person just was automatically town because you can't make a newbie a scum. I mean honestly, it's absurd. So no.

[yuma]

I am not sure what you mean about my philosophy on robz?

Just your "methinks he doth protest too much" theory that perhaps he rolled scum again.

Oh... that. Ok... although I am sure I never used the phrasing "doth protest too much." I am not really sure why you think it makes me scummy though. Like is said when I posted about it:

1. I get robz's frustration and I won't criticize it because I know how much he likes being mafia. However... I do wonder if it is possible that he is "playing it up" a bit. That is.... I wonder if he is mafia again and is faking the frustration and anger of no longer being mafia... Obviously not anything concrete because we don't know his current alignment, but his reaction to all of this does make me wonder...

I am not sure that it means anything, but felt that it was a valid concern and worth discussing... Again, you are finding me suspicious for bringing things up and probing and trying to get answers. Yes, scum!yuma does those things as well... but really it just feels like you are in "don't want to get tricked by scum!yuma mode" which is both a disservice to me as town and a disservice to the rest of the town if you are in fact town.

[spiritbears]

Calling his reaction post weak and his reads mostly null...it's exactly what you pushed against him at the end....as scum

well that is because it is... you guessed it!!! scummy!

It was an easy case to push then because it was scummy and you and others bought it. However, this game I am scum hunting. And he is playing scummy again.

The reason I think I am successful as mafia is because I create good cases that have merit as mafia and are very similar to my cases as town. In this game I am town and am scum hunting and again building, what I hope is, a good case.

So don't put down today's case just because yesterday's was created by scum. Take that into consideration when you view it, but don't just dismiss it because I was mafia last game.

I'm saying your case was bad then, your case is bad now....you either 1) don't read mai too well, or 2) are scum pushing a weak case or 3) are town pushing a weak bad case for some other reason
I'm going with 2 for now

[yuma]

Calling his reaction post weak and his reads mostly null...it's exactly what you pushed against him at the end....as scum

well that is because it is... you guessed it!!! scummy!

It was an easy case to push then because it was scummy and you and others bought it. However, this game I am scum hunting. And he is playing scummy again.

The reason I think I am successful as mafia is because I create good cases that have merit as mafia and are very similar to my cases as town. In this game I am town and am scum hunting and again building, what I hope is, a good case.

So don't put down today's case just because yesterday's was created by scum. Take that into consideration when you view it, but don't just dismiss it because I was mafia last game.

I'm saying your case was bad then, your case is bad now....you either 1) don't read mai too well, or 2) are scum pushing a weak case or 3) are town pushing a weak bad case for some other reason
I'm going with 2 for now

and what I am saying is that it wasn't bad then. It was a good case. It was good because it highlighted scummy play from mail-mi. It was wrong (obviously) but that doesn't make it a bad case.

What I am saying is that regardless of whether or not I am town or mafia I am going to build a good case, or at least try to. I might not be right as town... I certainly won't be right as mafia...

Both you and voltaire just seem to be stuck in "I won't let yuma trick me mode" which really makes me not want to scum hunt because anything I say will result in, "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" It is your job to actually look at my play and my behavior and see if it is scummy and not just assume that I am scummy because I am good at being scum.

[Voltaire]

Oh... that. Ok... although I am sure I never used the phrasing "doth protest too much." I am not really sure why you think it makes me scummy though.

You didn't use that phrase, someone else did to refer to your case, so I was just using their title for it.

Again, you are finding me suspicious for bringing things up and probing and trying to get answers. Yes, scum!yuma does those things as well... but really it just feels like you are in "don't want to get tricked by scum!yuma mode" which is both a disservice to me as town and a disservice to the rest of the town if you are in fact town.

Are you "bringing things up and probing and trying to get answers" or are you just offering up subtle scummy wagons for the town to jump on? I lean toward the second. (Yes, you did state you think mcmc is town - that's your only town read that has stuck out to me). And as you admit, scumYuma would do the same thing.

I mean, I'm not tunneling this (it's just D1, as you say) but for now I'm standing by it. It's a disservice to the town if I don't follow this wherever it may lead (if anywhere) and you turn out to be scum! If you're town as you say, then you understand.

[spiritbears]

Calling his reaction post weak and his reads mostly null...it's exactly what you pushed against him at the end....as scum

well that is because it is... you guessed it!!! scummy!

It was an easy case to push then because it was scummy and you and others bought it. However, this game I am scum hunting. And he is playing scummy again.

The reason I think I am successful as mafia is because I create good cases that have merit as mafia and are very similar to my cases as town. In this game I am town and am scum hunting and again building, what I hope is, a good case.

So don't put down today's case just because yesterday's was created by scum. Take that into consideration when you view it, but don't just dismiss it because I was mafia last game.

I'm saying your case was bad then, your case is bad now....you either 1) don't read mai too well, or 2) are scum pushing a weak case or 3) are town pushing a weak bad case for some other reason
I'm going with 2 for now

and what I am saying is that it wasn't bad then. It was a good case. It was good because it highlighted scummy play from mail-mi. It was wrong (obviously) but that doesn't make it a bad case.

What I am saying is that regardless of whether or not I am town or mafia I am going to build a good case, or at least try to. I might not be right as town... I certainly won't be right as mafia...

Both you and voltaire just seem to be stuck in "I won't let yuma trick me mode" which really makes me not want to scum hunt because anything I say will result in, "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" It is your job to actually look at my play and my behavior and see if it is scummy and not just assume that I am scummy because I am good at being scum.

That is such a cop-out. My reasons for voting for you have nothing to do with "Yuma being tricky". It's one thing to say you disagree with my case. It's a totally different thing to try and delegitimize it by by resorting to that kind of hyperbole.

[yuma]

sb: we are about to revert to an argument that will be pointless and distracting. So I am not going to continue in it. If you want to vote for me, go for it, I am just pointing out the flaws I see in your logic as to why I am scum. Take em or leave em

[spiritbears]

sb: we are about to revert to an argument that will be pointless and distracting. So I am not going to continue in it. If you want to vote for me, go for it, I am just pointing out the flaws I see in your logic as to why I am scum. Take em or leave em

Pointing out flaws is fine...claiming I'm only voting for you because you are so good st being scum is ...well not very nice

[Voltaire]

Both you and voltaire just seem to be stuck in "I won't let yuma trick me mode" which really makes me not want to scum hunt because anything I say will result in, "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" It is your job to actually look at my play and my behavior and see if it is scummy and not just assume that I am scummy because I am good at being scum.

This is not what I am doing. I am looking critically at your cases and finding them to be weak/wrong. There's a decent number of them. If you're town, then we'll see what happens if a proper wagon gets going on you. How you react is basically how I would change my mind. Maybe someone does something else I find scummier and I switch over to them if I'm more certain. But I am most certainly not making the sort of gut-based "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" case you claim, and that slanted summary isn't doing to any favors in my eyes.

[spiritbears]

Both you and voltaire just seem to be stuck in "I won't let yuma trick me mode" which really makes me not want to scum hunt because anything I say will result in, "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" It is your job to actually look at my play and my behavior and see if it is scummy and not just assume that I am scummy because I am good at being scum.

This is not what I am doing. I am looking critically at your cases and finding them to be weak/wrong. There's a decent number of them. If you're town, then we'll see what happens if a proper wagon gets going on you. How you react is basically how I would change my mind. Maybe someone does something else I find scummier and I switch over to them if I'm more certain. But I am most certainly not making the sort of gut-based "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" case you claim, and that slanted summary isn't doing to any favors in my eyes.

Exactly. Thank you volt.

[Voltaire]

and that slanted summary isn't doing to any favors in my eyes.

and that slanted summary isn't doing you any favors in my eyes.

[yuma]

to both of you then: maybe I am not understanding what you are saying then...

Voltaire seems to be saying:

I have a scumread on yuma. He's pushed Robz without voting and chairs without voting, right? I see that as yuma gently trying to start wagons.

pushing wagons...

But I also know that scumYuma is seven kinds of clever and would use this tactic to get something started as scum. It's my usual voting strategy (vote after moving through several levels of subtle) and I'm standing by it (for now). I do like what you're doing - your play has been helpful - but hasn't made you town in my eyes

doing what scum!yuma would do... "which has been helpful" but doesn't make me town. Yes, but it doesn't make me scum.

Are you "bringing things up and probing and trying to get answers" or are you just offering up subtle scummy wagons for the town to jump on? I lean toward the second. (Yes, you did state you think mcmc is town - that's your only town read that has stuck out to me). And as you admit, scumYuma would do the same thing.

why toward the second? what makes you think the second as opposed to the first? There must be something yes, but until you do, my automatic reaction is "tricky yuma syndrome" because it has happened repeatedly in the past.

spiritbears:

This is almost entirely a copy of your case against him in mean girls.  You were wrong then as scum
You are wrong now too I think
vote yuma

voting me for building a similar case as I did as scum. Maybe valid... but the point I am trying to make is that I play the same as town and mafia. So how do you separate the two? How is it that you think this is scum!yuma as opposed to town!yuma...?

I'm saying your case was bad then, your case is bad now....you either 1) don't read mai too well, or 2) are scum pushing a weak case or 3) are town pushing a weak bad case for some other reason
I'm going with 2 for now

you completely leave off the possibility of mail-mi being mafia... which is very possible because he has been scummy in this game. That doesn't make him auto-scum, but he has been. Robz and lio agree with me.


So while both are voting me for different reasons I see the underlying reasons as a distrust of me from the get-go. Not based off my actions in this game, but a distrust of my meta. Meta reasons are a way to vote, I think they are generally pretty lame... but this is going into a game thinking "I need to be wary of yuma" and then automatically viewing my posts and cases as either "bad" or "scummy" or both because of it. Sure, be wary of everyone. That is the point of this game, but I feel that I am being targeted based off my previous play. And look... I am not mad about it. That is what I get for having success, but it is frustrating because it ultimately means that my cases are not being listened to and my views are not going to be taken as strongly because of this. And as a town player where my main weapon is my voice and my vote, that impeads me and I think ultimately hurts town. So I am trying to show you that I think you are being distracted by my meta and allowing it to cloud your view of me.

maybe I am wrong... but that is where I am coming from.

[yuma]

Both you and voltaire just seem to be stuck in "I won't let yuma trick me mode" which really makes me not want to scum hunt because anything I say will result in, "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" It is your job to actually look at my play and my behavior and see if it is scummy and not just assume that I am scummy because I am good at being scum.

This is not what I am doing. I am looking critically at your cases and finding them to be weak/wrong. There's a decent number of them. If you're town, then we'll see what happens if a proper wagon gets going on you. How you react is basically how I would change my mind. Maybe someone does something else I find scummier and I switch over to them if I'm more certain. But I am most certainly not making the sort of gut-based "yuma is being tricky, stuff my fingers into my ears and vote for him!!!" case you claim, and that slanted summary isn't doing to any favors in my eyes.

Exactly. Thank you volt.

if it isn't what you are doing... it is what it appears you are doing in my eyes and from my perspective.

[Robz888]

Yuma, I think I agree that you seem MORE contrarian so far than usual. Their suspicion of you doesn't surprise me at all.

I would have to be really overwhelmingly convinced of your guilt to risk losing town you on Day 1, though. Maybe that's not fair to other players, but well, I want to win.