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Author Topic: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 3)  (Read 97294 times)

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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #150 on: June 18, 2013, 02:23:51 pm »

I'm actually concerned that people are forming reads a little too quickly (including on me). The thing is, I've found that once I've like publicly said "I think X is town" it takes more for me ot change that impression. And you know, pretty much everything we are basing reads on so far is very likely bogus. Hopefully not, but probably.

I think lio is a bit scummier than the rest. That's all so far.

Pleae share reads, but just be careful about going, Oh, yep, Robz, obvtown after like 5 posts," and then never ecosnidering it. There isn't enough data yet to make those kinds of assumptions!

Okay I think I see you are concerned with my town read on you more than the other things I said. It isn't like an obvi town irrevocable status, it's something I notice you do as town and you did here, that puts you town for now and will be used as I create a narrative for town!robz and scum!robz and then see which one makes more sense.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #151 on: June 18, 2013, 02:24:14 pm »

I'm not saying it's too early to have reads, but it's certainly too early to have accurate reads. As long as you keep in mind that you're probably almost entirely wrong in what you say, then go ahead and say it. I do think the reads lists are helpful for getting people on record and for generating conversation. Just don't put too much faith in them.

As for your argument "would this help scum yuma?" I argue that it wouldn't. Not meaningfully.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #152 on: June 18, 2013, 02:25:43 pm »

I'm actually concerned that people are forming reads a little too quickly (including on me). The thing is, I've found that once I've like publicly said "I think X is town" it takes more for me ot change that impression. And you know, pretty much everything we are basing reads on so far is very likely bogus. Hopefully not, but probably.

I think lio is a bit scummier than the rest. That's all so far.

Pleae share reads, but just be careful about going, Oh, yep, Robz, obvtown after like 5 posts," and then never ecosnidering it. There isn't enough data yet to make those kinds of assumptions!

Okay I think I see you are concerned with my town read on you more than the other things I said. It isn't like an obvi town irrevocable status, it's something I notice you do as town and you did here, that puts you town for now and will be used as I create a narrative for town!robz and scum!robz and then see which one makes more sense.

Well, I'm not concerned that you think I'm town. I am town. I'm concerned that you're a little too sure of your thought process for how you arrived at your opinions.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #153 on: June 18, 2013, 02:36:04 pm »

I'm actually concerned that people are forming reads a little too quickly (including on me). The thing is, I've found that once I've like publicly said "I think X is town" it takes more for me ot change that impression. And you know, pretty much everything we are basing reads on so far is very likely bogus. Hopefully not, but probably.

I think lio is a bit scummier than the rest. That's all so far.

Pleae share reads, but just be careful about going, Oh, yep, Robz, obvtown after like 5 posts," and then never ecosnidering it. There isn't enough data yet to make those kinds of assumptions!

Okay I think I see you are concerned with my town read on you more than the other things I said. It isn't like an obvi town irrevocable status, it's something I notice you do as town and you did here, that puts you town for now and will be used as I create a narrative for town!robz and scum!robz and then see which one makes more sense.

Well, I'm not concerned that you think I'm town. I am town. I'm concerned that you're a little too sure of your thought process for how you arrived at your opinions.

I am not sure, I do think your post against liopoil was weak(not wrong just a small reason) and didnt fully encompass what liopoil has done so far. I think this leaves open the opportunity for other players to respond to your post, they could attack you for a weak case(I would find this towny) they could join you and elaborate their own thoughts(I would find this towny) or they could join you and state that you reasoning is strong(I would find this scummy). I notice town robz doing things like this early on in a lot of games to help force players to do something that should shed some light on their alignment, so this leads me to believe you are town. But as more information comes I will continue to analyze whether you are town or scum.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #154 on: June 18, 2013, 03:25:25 pm »

****ing quotes.
I'm actually concerned that people are forming reads a little too quickly (including on me). The thing is, I've found that once I've like publicly said "I think X is town" it takes more for me ot change that impression. And you know, pretty much everything we are basing reads on so far is very likely bogus. Hopefully not, but probably.

I think lio is a bit scummier than the rest. That's all so far.

Pleae share reads, but just be careful about going, Oh, yep, Robz, obvtown after like 5 posts," and then never ecosnidering it. There isn't enough data yet to make those kinds of assumptions!
Yes!

Honestly, I have a null read on pretty much everyone so far.

But maybe town has caught scum already, and you're trying to shake us off! Yep, it's more jokey posts. I got nothing. unvote.

I would so editing others quotes is allowed...it honestly took me a good 5 minutes to figure out what you did and I was the one who posted, I have cut pieces of quotes out to point out what I want to quote but full on quote editing is I thought not allowed. You can completely confuse people.
To clarify I didn't edit anyone else's quotes...not sure what you're getting at, I did fail entirely to correctly format my post, my new content looked like someone else's, it was a mistake. Maybe I deleted something by mistake? The only intentional quote "edit" I've done so far is to place a [big snip] in your long post so that all that was left was your yuma vote and reasons, indicating lots of stuff was missing. Apologies if anything I've done has come off as dishonest, it's just been typing errors.
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #155 on: June 18, 2013, 03:29:53 pm »

Oh! I just figured out what happened. In an effort to fix my quote-mashed disaster of a post, I ended up replacing my name with mcmc's, making it look like what I said was said by him. Obviously not what I meant - my bad!
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Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2013, 03:32:09 pm »

I'm not saying it's too early to have reads, but it's certainly too early to have accurate reads. As long as you keep in mind that you're probably almost entirely wrong in what you say, then go ahead and say it. I do think the reads lists are helpful for getting people on record and for generating conversation. Just don't put too much faith in them.

As for your argument "would this help scum yuma?" I argue that it wouldn't. Not meaningfully.
I agree with this. I am thinking yuma may have been hoping it would start a (terrible) lio wagon, so then we could see who else would join it claiming it was a good idea.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #157 on: June 18, 2013, 05:20:32 pm »

I'm not saying it's too early to have reads, but it's certainly too early to have accurate reads. As long as you keep in mind that you're probably almost entirely wrong in what you say, then go ahead and say it. I do think the reads lists are helpful for getting people on record and for generating conversation. Just don't put too much faith in them.

As for your argument "would this help scum yuma?" I argue that it wouldn't. Not meaningfully.
I agree with this. I am thinking yuma may have been hoping it would start a (terrible) lio wagon, so then we could see who else would join it claiming it was a good idea.

Baisically I am saying I find that a credible reason for robz post, but yuma's falls on the other side of jining claiming its a good idea. This is because where do you draw the line? I think its credible to join if you give reasoning and advance the case, scum doesn't want to do that they just hop on which is what yuma did.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Voltaire

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #158 on: June 18, 2013, 05:23:06 pm »

I'm not saying it's too early to have reads, but it's certainly too early to have accurate reads. As long as you keep in mind that you're probably almost entirely wrong in what you say, then go ahead and say it. I do think the reads lists are helpful for getting people on record and for generating conversation. Just don't put too much faith in them.

As for your argument "would this help scum yuma?" I argue that it wouldn't. Not meaningfully.
I agree with this. I am thinking yuma may have been hoping it would start a (terrible) lio wagon, so then we could see who else would join it claiming it was a good idea.

Baisically I am saying I find that a credible reason for robz post, but yuma's falls on the other side of jining claiming its a good idea. This is because where do you draw the line? I think its credible to join if you give reasoning and advance the case, scum doesn't want to do that they just hop on which is what yuma did.
Yeah but isn't that patently obvious how scummy that is? It's a ton of wine for D1 for scum!yuma to go for it like that. He'd need, what, 3 more people to hop on and nobody to point out how weird his vote was.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #159 on: June 18, 2013, 05:25:29 pm »

I was hardly about to be lynched any time soon, and the odds are still pretty good that I will not be the lynch today (maybe slightly more than 1/9). It isn't the time to start actively trying to lynch people. I do not think that yuma was really trying to lynch me, more that he agrees with robz's point, and so voted to get some discussion going.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #160 on: June 18, 2013, 05:38:52 pm »

I was hardly about to be lynched any time soon, and the odds are still pretty good that I will not be the lynch today (maybe slightly more than 1/9). It isn't the time to start actively trying to lynch people. I do not think that yuma was really trying to lynch me, more that he agrees with robz's point, and so voted to get some discussion going.

Right. Exactly.
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shraeye

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #161 on: June 18, 2013, 05:43:56 pm »

Vote Count 1.4

mail-mi (1): chairs
liopoil (1): yuma
yuma (1): mcmcsalot
Voltaire (1): spiritbears

Not voting: nkirbit, Robz888, liopoil, mail-mi, Voltaire

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is 1:30pm forum time on Monday, July 1st
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #162 on: June 18, 2013, 05:52:07 pm »

I'm actually concerned that people are forming reads a little too quickly (including on me). The thing is, I've found that once I've like publicly said "I think X is town" it takes more for me ot change that impression. And you know, pretty much everything we are basing reads on so far is very likely bogus. Hopefully not, but probably.

I think lio is a bit scummier than the rest. That's all so far.

Pleae share reads, but just be careful about going, Oh, yep, Robz, obvtown after like 5 posts," and then never ecosnidering it. There isn't enough data yet to make those kinds of assumptions!

Okay I think I see you are concerned with my town read on you more than the other things I said. It isn't like an obvi town irrevocable status, it's something I notice you do as town and you did here, that puts you town for now and will be used as I create a narrative for town!robz and scum!robz and then see which one makes more sense.

Well, I'm not concerned that you think I'm town. I am town. I'm concerned that you're a little too sure of your thought process for how you arrived at your opinions.

I am not sure, I do think your post against liopoil was weak(not wrong just a small reason) and didnt fully encompass what liopoil has done so far. I think this leaves open the opportunity for other players to respond to your post, they could attack you for a weak case(I would find this towny) they could join you and elaborate their own thoughts(I would find this towny) or they could join you and state that you reasoning is strong(I would find this scummy). I notice town robz doing things like this early on in a lot of games to help force players to do something that should shed some light on their alignment, so this leads me to believe you are town. But as more information comes I will continue to analyze whether you are town or scum.
I for one am glad to have you here to help read robz...I think you get him much better than I do!
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #163 on: June 18, 2013, 05:55:31 pm »

And unvote
Volt seems to be genuinely scum hunting...(but I will keep an eye on him given his sqirmyness re:Yuma)
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #164 on: June 18, 2013, 07:34:02 pm »

I'm not saying it's too early to have reads, but it's certainly too early to have accurate reads. As long as you keep in mind that you're probably almost entirely wrong in what you say, then go ahead and say it. I do think the reads lists are helpful for getting people on record and for generating conversation. Just don't put too much faith in them.

As for your argument "would this help scum yuma?" I argue that it wouldn't. Not meaningfully.
I agree with this. I am thinking yuma may have been hoping it would start a (terrible) lio wagon, so then we could see who else would join it claiming it was a good idea.

This is absolutely not what I was doing. Because it isn't a "terrible" wagon. It was a vote because I agreed with what Robz said. I was interested in seeing lio's reaction, but mostly it is because I am a strong proponent of voting when you find something scummy.

I was hardly about to be lynched any time soon, and the odds are still pretty good that I will not be the lynch today (maybe slightly more than 1/9). It isn't the time to start actively trying to lynch people. I do not think that yuma was really trying to lynch me, more that he agrees with robz's point, and so voted to get some discussion going.

This is more of what I was doing, except I don't really care about starting discussion. I mean I want discussion, but I am not going to go out of my way to force it to happen. I am just going to play and the discussion will follow. If it doesn't then I am going to call people out on it and that will probably start a discussion. But I never post or vote just to start discussion. I vote because something is scummy and I am using my vote to say that I think it is and is worthy of a vote.

Now for mcmc's early "case" on me.

Does anyone see how similar it is to Dsell's case on me from last game's blitz? I sure do. In that game dsell basically created a case on me for "not having original thoughts" within the first few hours of the game. Mcmc is basically doing the same thing here. OMG! Yuma posted a vote w/o adding anything to the case!! No original thought!!! He must be trying to play it safe and get on the wagon early!

Maybe if we actually looked at the context. I have had one post in this game. One. Why? Because I am a busy man and sometimes dont' have time to post, last night was such a time. But post I did what I could. It was what 12 hours in the game? There was very little to add to what robz had said already. Anything else would ahve just been unnecessary words... fluff, useless.

What I am seeing here is the same thing I saw in dsell and the same thing I correctly called him out on. This--not trying to get on a wagon 12 hours into the game so mafia can play it safe--is a tactic that mafia uses. Creating a case that looks good but is based on... nothing but bad assumptions and distortions. Why do they do it? Because it moves the topic of conversation away from themselves and the longer that can be the case, mafia will prosper.

So here I am going to vote: mcmc. Again, just like in the blitz game. This isn't a OMGUS vote. It isn't. It is a vote because mcmc created a bad case on me, a case that I have seen scum use in the past--just last game for example. If mcmc had pushed this case on any other player I would have called it out as well in the same way I am doing now...
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #165 on: June 18, 2013, 08:01:32 pm »

I'm not sure I see the similarity Yuma.  And I hardly think mc is making a fake case. Your reaction to it is interesting though.  I don't see it as omgus, though....
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nkirbit

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #166 on: June 18, 2013, 08:08:32 pm »

Yuma, there is a difference between here and blitz.. Here, mcmc came after you more for sheeting another vote, which wasn't exactly what dsell did... He came after you for not being proactive, right?  Which is different
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #167 on: June 18, 2013, 08:18:40 pm »

I wasn't in the blitz game so can't comment on that. I disagree with all and any suspicion toward Yuma for agreeing with me on lio. That said, is mcmc scum trying to drive a case on Yuma? It's an interesting question. Well, I would say probably not. He's more likely to be misguided town, then some scum already trying to drive a bad lynch. Of course his whole theory is Yuma is scum doing exactly that. But I think he is wrong. For now, just wrong, not scum.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #168 on: June 18, 2013, 08:19:12 pm »

And unvote
Volt seems to be genuinely scum hunting...(but I will keep an eye on him given his sqirmyness re:Yuma)

In what way is volt scum hunting?
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #169 on: June 18, 2013, 08:20:14 pm »

I wasn't in the blitz game so can't comment on that. I disagree with all and any suspicion toward Yuma for agreeing with me on lio. That said, is mcmc scum trying to drive a case on Yuma? It's an interesting question. Well, I would say probably not. He's more likely to be misguided town, then some scum already trying to drive a bad lynch. Of course his whole theory is Yuma is scum doing exactly that. But I think he is wrong. For now, just wrong, not scum.
Youre saying town on town violence?  Could be
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #170 on: June 18, 2013, 08:21:09 pm »

I'm really buying Yuma's points on mcmc. I was thinking along those lines but couldn't quite put it together. I guess you could call this sheeping. I'll go back to my RVS vote, not RVS anymore:

Vote: Mcmcalot
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #171 on: June 18, 2013, 08:22:23 pm »

And unvote
Volt seems to be genuinely scum hunting...(but I will keep an eye on him given his sqirmyness re:Yuma)

In what way is volt scum hunting?
Active participation in the discussion. Putting reads out...doing the right thing basically...
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spiritbears

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #172 on: June 18, 2013, 08:23:30 pm »

I'm really buying Yuma's points on mcmc. I was thinking along those lines but couldn't quite put it together. I guess you could call this sheeping. I'll go back to my RVS vote, not RVS anymore:

Vote: Mcmcalot
Dang lio. Just when I thought you were settling in as town....this looks bad
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #173 on: June 18, 2013, 08:24:04 pm »

Yuma, there is a difference between here and blitz.. Here, mcmc came after you more for sheeting another vote, which wasn't exactly what dsell did... He came after you for not being proactive, right?  Which is different

No... In looking back his initial case on me was that I was flip-flopping on my reads. But once I called him out he changed it to "he hasn't had original thoughts" and "he isn't meeting his usual meta.

I had thought from memory that his initial case was that I didn't have original thoughts and then he switched from that... so I am a bit mistaken there. But I think my point still remains. Mcmc is trying to turn something that I did into a scummy action, when alone it wasn't. That is... he is trying to make a bigger deal out of it that it actually is... and to what purpose. If he is mafia... to manipulate town to having the conversation be about me and not about himself and his buddy(ies? Simple game right, 2 mafia... so buddy) and start up a lynch on what I consider (bragging warning) to be a pretty good and pro-town player. If he is town, then he is scum hunting... badly in my opinion... But I have seen these sorts of tactics often enough from mafia to be suspicious of it and call it out. Hence my vote.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXVI: Back to Basics (Day 1 start)
« Reply #174 on: June 18, 2013, 08:28:18 pm »

I'm really buying Yuma's points on mcmc. I was thinking along those lines but couldn't quite put it together. I guess you could call this sheeping. I'll go back to my RVS vote, not RVS anymore:

Vote: Mcmcalot
Dang lio. Just when I thought you were settling in as town....this looks bad
I am settling in. I feel good about that vote right now, I think it's the best we have currently.
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