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Author Topic: Victory card speculation  (Read 15214 times)

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pst

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Victory card speculation
« on: June 03, 2013, 12:43:44 pm »
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The obvious Victory card for Guilds would be one worth more the more coin tokens you have. I wonder if there will be one. If there is it has to be multiclassed so it can be used to get some coin tokens so as to not be pointless in many games. That means probably Action/Victory, but could be Treasure/Victory or even Victory/Reaction.

I think that could lead to hard decisions on when to spend your precious coin tokens.
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Grujah

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2013, 12:46:32 pm »
+1

The obvious Victory card for Guilds would be one worth more the more coin tokens you have.

Would be fun if it actually costs 7$.  ;D
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Taco Lobster

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 12:47:47 pm »
+3

Would be even more fun if you could only buy it by spending coin tokens...
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Watno

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2013, 12:50:21 pm »
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I don't think it will gove VP for coin tokens, that would counteract their purpose (spending them)
A Victory card that can't be gained with treasures in play sounds cool though
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mail-mi

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 12:57:32 pm »
+3

I don't think it will gove VP for coin tokens, that would counteract their purpose (spending them)
A Victory card that can't be gained with treasures in play sounds cool though
Or just a card in general.
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pst

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 01:00:11 pm »
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I don't think it will gove VP for coin tokens, that would counteract their purpose (spending them)

It would shift their purpose a bit. You probably wouldn't hoard tokens most of the game, but towards the end you'd better make sure you have something there. (Sort of how playing with Silk Roads doesn't mean you will buy Estates at every opportunity instead of improving your deck, but probably you will towards the end.)
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pst

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 02:08:34 pm »
+2

The obvious Victory card for Guilds would be one worth more the more coin tokens you have. I wonder if there will be one. If there is it has to be multiclassed so it can be used to get some coin tokens so as to not be pointless in many games.

False! It can have some other way of getting you coin tokens. We know that there are cards that give you something when overpaying for it. I think that's it! A Victory card worth more the more coin tokens you have, that gets you coin tokens when overpaying for it!

That can lead to interesting situations in several ways. If you can amass lots of $$$ but there is no extra buy maybe you should ignore Provinces and pump these up to the sky? Sometimes you would ignore the Victory part. Just buy them to get the coin tokens and then trash them for benefit later.
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Hockey Mask

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 02:34:29 pm »
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The obvious Victory card for Guilds would be one worth more the more coin tokens you have. I wonder if there will be one. If there is it has to be multiclassed so it can be used to get some coin tokens so as to not be pointless in many games.

False! It can have some other way of getting you coin tokens. We know that there are cards that give you something when overpaying for it. I think that's it! A Victory card worth more the more coin tokens you have, that gets you coin tokens when overpaying for it!

That can lead to interesting situations in several ways. If you can amass lots of $$$ but there is no extra buy maybe you should ignore Provinces and pump these up to the sky? Sometimes you would ignore the Victory part. Just buy them to get the coin tokens and then trash them for benefit later.
I like that idea.  Gives you a chance to catch up if the supply of Provinces/Duchies may be running low.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2013, 02:35:14 pm »
+1

Guildhouse -- $4
Victory
Worth 6VP
--------
You can't buy this if you have any Treasures in play.
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Archetype

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2013, 02:52:42 pm »
+1

The problem with having a Victory card that gives out points based on Coin Tokens - and probably one of the reasons why Donald didn't make a Victory card directly related to the trash pile for Dark Ages- is most likely because then that card has to give out Coin Tokens itself.

I think the Victory card is going to be one that can be overbought, and then the player earning 1 coin token per extra $ spent.


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Marcory

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2013, 02:54:30 pm »
+1

Workshop (or Ironworks/Armory/Smugglers)-Guildhouse would become the dominant strategy in any board that had it. Getting Gardens or Silk Road to 6 VP takes some doing; this would be way too easy.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2013, 03:01:24 pm »
+1

I don't think there will be a VP card tat relies on coin tokens. This makes them all VP tokens, or rather, VP tokens for every copy of the green card you have, which seems quite warping. Oh yeah, AND you can spend them at some point. Baker+that card even is just going to be bananas, and he's not going to let such a 2-card combo exist, particularly in the same expansion.

Gaining coin tokens for overspending IS something we might see, though I don't really see it being connected to a victory card - more likely you'd have a something like village that gives a coin token for every overspending you do on it, costing 4.

Robz888

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2013, 03:06:05 pm »
0

We might see a victory card that you can only buy with tokens, maybe.
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greatexpectations

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2013, 03:09:02 pm »
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I don't think there will be a VP card tat relies on coin tokens. This makes them all VP tokens, or rather, VP tokens for every copy of the green card you have, which seems quite warping. Oh yeah, AND you can spend them at some point. Baker+that card even is just going to be bananas, and he's not going to let such a 2-card combo exist, particularly in the same expansion.

how is that warping? you have to choose between spending the coin tokens or holding them for points. you can't do both in the end game. i'm not seeing it.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 03:10:34 pm »
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We might see a victory card that you can only buy with tokens, maybe.

But that runs into the same problem -- you need a card that gives coin tokens or else you could never buy that Victory card.  And worse, you can't put the token gaining onto the Victory card itself.
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Titandrake

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2013, 03:11:53 pm »
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Maybe a coin token pinata?

During your buy phase, you may trash this, if you do get +coin tokens.

But then, why put it on a Victory card when you could put it on an Action?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2013, 03:13:40 pm »
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I don't think there will be a VP card tat relies on coin tokens. This makes them all VP tokens, or rather, VP tokens for every copy of the green card you have, which seems quite warping. Oh yeah, AND you can spend them at some point. Baker+that card even is just going to be bananas, and he's not going to let such a 2-card combo exist, particularly in the same expansion.

how is that warping? you have to choose between spending the coin tokens or holding them for points. you can't do both in the end game. i'm not seeing it.

Well, you just don't spend them, and Jimminy Christmas that's a lot of alt-VP.

sudgy

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2013, 03:16:44 pm »
+1

Maybe a coin token pinata?

During your buy phase, you may trash this, if you do get +coin tokens.

But then, why put it on a Victory card when you could put it on an Action?

Actually, that makes me think of an interesting TfB: "Trash a card from your hand.  +coin tokens equal to how much it costs."
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eHalcyon

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2013, 03:18:06 pm »
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Maybe a coin token pinata?

During your buy phase, you may trash this, if you do get +coin tokens.

But then, why put it on a Victory card when you could put it on an Action?

Actually, that makes me think of an interesting TfB: "Trash a card from your hand.  +coin tokens equal to how much it costs."

That's just a Salvager variant, and you can get the same effect (plus more) from a card that converts unspent coins into coin tokens (in conjunction with Salvager).
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soulnet

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2013, 03:19:33 pm »
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I think I said the exact same thing (with less confidence, no obvious word or anything) about 30 minutes before this topic:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8294.msg249357#msg249357
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pst

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2013, 03:19:49 pm »
+1

I don't think there will be a VP card tat relies on coin tokens. This makes them all VP tokens, or rather, VP tokens for every copy of the green card you have, which seems quite warping.

Like Garden/Silk Road/Feodum is quite warping because all Xs become VP tokens? It wouldn't be one VP per coin token (obviously). What I wrote was "worth more the more coin tokens you have". I have no suggestion on the exact formula.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2013, 03:21:25 pm »
+1

I think Butcher is going to be the closest thing we see to a Salvager variant. Likewise, I think we're more likely to see a card that you can overbuy for coin tokens than one that converts unspent coins into tokens the turn it's played.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2013, 03:22:03 pm »
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I don't think there will be a VP card tat relies on coin tokens. This makes them all VP tokens, or rather, VP tokens for every copy of the green card you have, which seems quite warping.

Like Garden/Silk Road/Feodum is quite warping because all Xs become VP tokens? It wouldn't be one VP per coin token (obviously). What I wrote was "worth more the more coin tokens you have". I have no suggestion on the exact formula.

But this is more like the original Duke formulation - by the time it i strong enough that buying a few is something you might do, then just going for the whole stack is going to by enormous. Or if you make it where going for the whole stack isn't too strong, then nobody will ever buy just a few.

My point is that there is NO even-keeled formula.

pst

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2013, 03:26:24 pm »
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I think I said the exact same thing (with less confidence, no obvious word or anything) about 30 minutes before this topic:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8294.msg249357#msg249357

I hadn't seen that, but it doesn't surprise me as I indeed think the idea is obvious when thinking about what Victory card there could be in Guilds. I don't mean that it obviously will have such a card, only that it's an obvious idea that surely has been considered. And my guess is that it indeed would work, and that there probably is such a card, especially when I realized that it wouldn't have to be Victory/Action.
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shMerker

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Re: Victory card speculation
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2013, 03:30:22 pm »
+1

But this is more like the original Duke formulation - by the time it i strong enough that buying a few is something you might do, then just going for the whole stack is going to by enormous. Or if you make it where going for the whole stack isn't too strong, then nobody will ever buy just a few.

My point is that there is NO even-keeled formula.

Isn't this generally how variable-vp cards work though? Either ignore them entirely or go for the whole stack? I don't get what the problem is.
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