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Author Topic: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list  (Read 148107 times)

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ChaosRed

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #125 on: October 19, 2011, 01:49:30 pm »
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Scheme is a great card. It combos with a lot of things. I used it with a Minion deck, fairly well yesterday. It also has a great name and theme to it. It's cards like these that really make the game a pleasure to behold.
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #126 on: October 19, 2011, 02:13:54 pm »
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Scheme/Minion is nice if you get lucky, but if both sides are going Minions the problem is that all of the Scheming is for naught as soon as they discard the top. I had a Throne Room/Minion/Scheme game earlier where I managed to get 4 cards worth of Scheme, but 6 seems really hard and if you can't get that far it's probably not going to pay off.

I haven't had a ton of Scheme games yet, but I think my initial guess is probably right. It's fantastic in engines that have key pieces you want to get you started each turn (e.g. if you can scheme KC/KC/Smithy on a regular basis) or for trying to win attack races. And it's useful on itself to pass it from hand to hand until it connects with something important.
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guided

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #127 on: October 19, 2011, 02:24:45 pm »
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What about vault? Gives you the ability to discard Tunnels in hand, synergises well with Golds (one Gold + vault = Province), etc etc. You won't manage multiple province buys, but I imagine this can be pretty damn fast. Of course vault+tunnel alone is probably very strong.
Vault/Tunnel should be much better all on its own without any Golems involved.

You (or anyone else who has ideas) should test them!
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ChaosRed

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2011, 02:41:58 pm »
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I can't really get Tunnel to fire consistently. I've tried things that get it to 4 Provinces in 18 Turns, but one key problem is you really don't acquire Gold very fast early on, then you wind up acquiring too much later. Similarly, you really need Copper and other trash out of your deck, so the chance of milling and discarding a Tunnel increases.

I'll keep soloing, but I think Tunnel is a nice 2VP with a cute ability, but I am not yet convinced it builds a superior engine. I've tried Vault and Venture and Fishing Village, even Warehouse...it works, but so far I can't get to "wow".
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #129 on: October 19, 2011, 02:54:47 pm »
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Oracle seems like a real dog of a card, like serious contender for worst $3 bad. You get the drawing power of Moat (but not the defense!) coupled with a terminal Spy-type attack that is arguably not even better than Spy. Because your opponent can order the cards, it's not even really useful for setting up other types of attacks that care about the top card like Jester, Saboteur or Swindler. Any other candidates for worst card in the expansion?

edit: Okay, you get slightly better drawing power than Moat as you have the option of pitching total garbage. Still seems like this isn't going to be worth it very often.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 02:57:24 pm by ackack »
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Fangz

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #130 on: October 19, 2011, 03:04:14 pm »
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I can't really get Tunnel to fire consistently. I've tried things that get it to 4 Provinces in 18 Turns, but one key problem is you really don't acquire Gold very fast early on, then you wind up acquiring too much later. Similarly, you really need Copper and other trash out of your deck, so the chance of milling and discarding a Tunnel increases.

I'll keep soloing, but I think Tunnel is a nice 2VP with a cute ability, but I am not yet convinced it builds a superior engine. I've tried Vault and Venture and Fishing Village, even Warehouse...it works, but so far I can't get to "wow".

Maybe it works better in Colony games?

For oracle, I guess the point is that the fact you get to discard before you draw matters. It's a counter, therefore, to things like Rabble.

Worst card of the expansion for me is either Trader, or Ill Gotten Gains.
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ChaosRed

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #131 on: October 19, 2011, 03:18:49 pm »
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Trader kinda works for a Gardens strategy, or one early in a game with no trashers, but not much other utility that I've found yet, although I love the card. Ill-Gotten Gains just doesn't seem worth it to me, I think it might have narrow utility with certain other cards, but mostly seems too intricate to use effectively.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 03:22:37 pm by ChaosRed »
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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #132 on: October 19, 2011, 03:37:56 pm »
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The Council rooms doesn't sound like the best card for such a big deck. Maybe Salvager, Bishop or Remodel would do better.

Ironworks, to add tunnels?
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ChaosRed

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #133 on: October 19, 2011, 04:19:43 pm »
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Played a solo game with Lookout, Hunting Party, Tunnel, Farming Village and Inn and it rocked. So if you have two or more non-terminal discard cards, Tunnel works nicely, but I am not sure Farming Village is enough. Lookout really helps trim the deck early, to keep the Tunnel discard more likely, when you really need the gold. I bought no currency at all, and still thrived.

Inn+Tunnel have obvious synergy.
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Davio

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #134 on: October 20, 2011, 03:54:16 am »
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I like how Tunnel works subtly with non-obvious discarders, such as the deck-crawlers.

The obvious attacks:
- Militia
- Goons
- Torturer
- Ghost Ship
- Followers
- Margrave

Less obvious, but still attacks (could be self-helping attacks):
- Spy
- Thief
- Minion
- Pirate Ship
- Sea Hag
- Scrying Pool
- Jester
- Oracle
- Noble Brigand

Self-discarders:
- Cellar
- Secret Chamber
- Lookout
- Warehouse
- Navigator
- Tactician
- Vault
- Hamlet
- Horse Traders
- Young Witch
- Harvest
- Duchess
- Cartographer
- Embassy
- Inn

Deck-crawlers:
- Adventurer
- Golem
- Loan
- Venture
- Farming Village
- Hunting Party

Misc
- Tribute
- Envoy

Now that's quite a list, and I may have even forgotten something. Point is, Tunnel can be a quite nifty card in lots of setups, but you always have to ask yourself if you're willing to sacrifice some early tempo hoping that you can activate some Tunnels.

I think the general strategy is comparable with a Hoards-strategy. You willingly clutter your deck with green to grab some cheap Golds. Only thing is, if you overdo it, it's hard to get those Golds together. But 1 or 2 Tunnels may be enough to get a few Golds, with Hoard you have to keep buying VP cards.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 06:09:20 am by Davio »
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Tonks77

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2011, 04:11:14 am »
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I think Ghost Ship will not trigger Tunnel, because cards are not discarded but go back to the deck.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #136 on: October 20, 2011, 04:49:33 am »
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You're right about Ghost Ship. In one of my first games with Tunnel, I went for Tunnel + Farming Village. It didn't work very well and was kind of frustrating. I imagine something like Hunting Party with not too many unique cards or Golem without too many actions could work quite well.
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Geronimoo

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2011, 05:55:33 am »
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Jack of all Trades is a lot better than you might think. It does a lot of very mediocre things, but don't let that fool you. As long as you're not building some elaborate treasureless engine, this is an elite opener (it beats Envoy for instance and is almost a coin flip against double Mountebank)
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Davio

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2011, 06:29:39 am »
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Just played a game in which Tunnel was the bane card, that was funny.
Now there were two reasons to grab them, one to use with Young Witch and one to use against Young Witch. Only 3 Curses were dealt out during the entire game.

Oh, and Hunting Party was also present.
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Fabian

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2011, 06:42:44 am »
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Jack of all Trades is a lot better than you might think. It does a lot of very mediocre things, but don't let that fool you. As long as you're not building some elaborate treasureless engine, this is an elite opener (it beats Envoy for instance and is almost a coin flip against double Mountebank)

Based on the limited play I've seen with JoaT, this blows my mind. I'd have been inclined to agree with chwhite on this, for sure. Guess I'll need to give it a few more chances :)
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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2011, 08:35:49 am »
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The new standard is 4 Provinces by turn twelve and 6 by 15 on many Hinterlands boards.  You have been warned.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 08:39:29 am by Mean Mr Mustard »
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Fangz

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2011, 08:41:35 am »
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Uh, how? I can't see anything that powerful.
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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2011, 09:05:22 am »
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Come play some games with me and see.  Or you could sift my logs, and there are plenty of stinkers to sift through.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #143 on: October 20, 2011, 09:38:54 am »
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Just realised an awesome combo: Chancellor + Inn. Like, if you ever wanted a reason to buy a Chancellor, Stash is nice, Counting House can be cute, but Inn could be game-changingly powerful.

So you want to start doing this in the mid to late game, once you've got some nice action cards happening. Then, every time you get Chancellor + $3, flip your deck, buy an Inn, and set yourself up with your selection of action cards. Put two King's Courts on top with your best actions. Or put up a stack of Villages and Goons. Though you may need to be careful about the number of terminals you stack up, as you don't get to choose the order. If you're clever, you might throw up another Chancellor as well, although this will only work if you only use half your action cards at a time, or you have a Courtyard or Mandarin to make sure you can save your Chancellor for when all your action cards are gone from your play area.

Of course, most of the power here is in Inn's gaining effect. But this is by far best done when you're as close as possible to reshuffling, and Chancellor not only gives you more "chances" (I made a pun!) to get there, but it makes sure there aren't a stray card or two left on your deck when you buy the Inn.

Another nice thing about this is once you have some Inns in your deck, you can use it to discard anything you don't want this turn but want for your next megaturn.
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Copernicus

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #144 on: October 20, 2011, 09:41:27 am »
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Jack of all Trades is a lot better than you might think. It does a lot of very mediocre things, but don't let that fool you. As long as you're not building some elaborate treasureless engine, this is an elite opener (it beats Envoy for instance and is almost a coin flip against double Mountebank)

Yeah, I haven't figured out why it's good but it's very good.

What is the average turn for 4-Province you are getting in simulations?
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Geronimoo

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #145 on: October 20, 2011, 09:56:09 am »
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Jack of all Trades needs 13.7 turns to get 4 Provinces (Envoy needs 14.4). The bot buys 2 Jacks (1 is slightly slower).

Btw I hope to get all the programming done by tonight so you can all simulate the new cards yourself.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #146 on: October 20, 2011, 10:08:58 am »
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Just took Jack (BMU + 2 Jacks) for a test-run. Fourth Province on turn 12. Sixth on turn 16, followed by 2 Duchies, a Province and 5 more Duchies.
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guided

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #147 on: October 20, 2011, 10:31:43 am »
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it beats Envoy
Pardon my French, but holy shit.

I've only played with it a couple times and it struck me as quite good. But I didn't realize it could be THAT good :o
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jonts26

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #148 on: October 20, 2011, 10:58:19 am »
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Yeah, I've been quite surprised by how good Jack of all Trades is. It's also even more resistant to cursing attacks than most other BMU + action strategies. I recently played a game where my opponent opened sea hag, I opened Jack and completely ignored the hag. And I think my strategy was the right choice.

I imagine it will also be more resistant to discard attacks, too.
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DG

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #149 on: October 20, 2011, 11:44:43 am »
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The jack of all trades certainly lives up to his name. He appears to provide a staggering amount of defence to most attacks; swindler, saboteur, minion, militia, sea hag, fortune teller, spy, maybe even ambassador. He probably needs to since a silver/copper based deck is more vulnerable than most.
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