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Author Topic: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list  (Read 66945 times)

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HiveMindEmulator

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[spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 17, 2011, 04:59:55 pm »
+1

For those of your interested, Donald just posted this on the spoiler thread on bgg (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/712339/spoiler-german-rules-online/page/3)

Quote
So that there are no misunderstandings, here is the full text spoiler in English.


* * * 10 copies with the normal back, 1 with the randomizer back:

Border Village: Action, $6
+1 Card
+2 Actions
----------
When you gain this, gain a card costing less than this.

Cache: Treasure, $5, worth $3
$3 [large coin]
----------
When you gain this, gain two Coppers.

Cartographer: Action, $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.

Crossroads: Action, $2
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per Victory card revealed.
If this is the first time you played a Crossroads this turn, +3 Actions.

Develop: Action, $3
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it and a card costing exactly $1 less than it, in either order, putting them on top of your deck.

Duchess: Action, $2
+$2
Each player (including you) looks at the top card of his deck, and discards it or puts it back.
----------
In games using this, when you gain a Duchy, you may gain a Duchess.

Embassy: Action, $5
+5 Cards
Discard 3 cards.
----------
When you gain this, each other player gains a Silver.

Fool's Gold: Treasure - Reaction, $2, worth $?
If this is the first time you played a Fool's Gold this turn, this is worth $1, otherwise it's worth $4.
----------
When another player gains a Province, you may trash this from your hand. If you do, gain a Gold, putting it on your deck.

Haggler: Action, $5
+$2
----------
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a card costing less than it that is not a Victory card.

Highway: Action, $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
----------
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.

Ill-Gotten Gains: Treasure, $5, worth $1
$1 [large coin]
When you play this, you may gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
----------
When you gain this, each other player gains a Curse.

Inn: Action, $5
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
Discard 2 cards.
----------
When you gain this, look through your discard pile (including this), reveal any number of Action cards from it, and shuffle them into your deck.

Jack of all Trades: Action, $4
Gain a Silver.
Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back.
Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.
You may trash a card from your hand that is not a Treasure.

Mandarin: Action, $5
+$3
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
----------
When you gain this, put all Treasures you have in play on top of your deck in any order.

Margrave: Action - Attack, $5
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player draws a card, then discards down to 3 cards in hand.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
When you buy this or play it, each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, and discards the rest. If he didn't reveal a Treasure, he gains a Copper. You gain the trashed cards.

Nomad Camp: Action, $4
+1 Buy
+$2
----------
When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.

Oasis: Action, $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Discard a card.

Oracle: Action - Attack, $3
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, and you choose one: either he discards them, or he puts them back on top in an order he chooses.
+2 Cards

Scheme: Action, $3
+1 Card
+1 Action
At the start of Clean-up this turn, you may choose an Action card you have in play. If you discard it from play this turn, put it on your deck.

Spice Merchant: Action, $4
You may trash a Treasure from your hand. If you do, choose one:
+2 Cards and +1 Action;
or +$2 and +1 Buy.

Stables: Action, $5
You may discard a Treasure. If you do, +3 Cards and +1 Action.

Trader: Action - Reaction, $4
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a number of Silvers equal to its cost in coins.
----------
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Silver.

* * * 12 copies with the normal back, 1 with the randomizer back:

Farmland: Victory, $6
2 VP [large shield]
----------
When you buy this, trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $2 more than the trashed card.

Silk Road: Victory, $4
Worth 1 VP for every 4 Victory cards in your deck (round down).

Tunnel: Victory - Reaction, $3
2 VP [large shield]
----------
When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, gain a Gold.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 05:06:44 pm »
0

Doug Z cannot possibly get online soon enough. Even if he released these to Isotropic 5 minutes ago while I was reading these over at BGG, it would not be soon enough. YAYAYAYYAYAYAYAYAYYAYAYAAYAYAYYAAYYAYAYAYYAYAYAYAYAYAYYAYAYAYAYAYAAYY!!!!!!!!

Edit: I checked. He didn't :(
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2011, 05:14:18 pm »
0

Stables: the new best Lab?

Spice Merchant:  the new best Lab?

Both of those make Cache and Ill Gotten Gains look better in combo.

Scheme seems amazing for making a sustainable multi-card engine work.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 05:23:18 pm »
0

Stables: the new best Lab?

Spice Merchant:  the new best Lab?
Stables does sound really good, but spice merchant has the problem that it doesn't actually increase hand-size. It just clears out copper without decreasing hand-size, and can be used for a +buy when needed. It seems like a good opener, since you can use it to trash coppers without sacrificing much buying power or wasting a terminal, and then eventually use it for the buy; but a pure spice merchant deck is probably not all that great.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 05:26:46 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 05:25:27 pm »
0

There are some weird, weird cards in here. Snap thoughts:

- Many of these dynamics are going to make for tedious games. Oh well.

- Cartographer seems like it's going to be a very nice utility card.

- Haggler and Highway both seem like they will be burly cards. Haggler seems quite potent for building KC engines.

- Margrave also seems very strong, combining strong draw and +buy into a single card without the Council Room drawback (in fact with a slightly weakened Militia attack).

- Noble Brigand seems extremely close to Thief++; you can't use it on oddball treasures, but you're not going to clean up your opponent's deck with it either. Probably still not a very good card, but with the +$1 it at least seems plausible to look at.

- Scheme seems super-powerful for engine decks, or if there's an attack you're looking to play as often as possible. Doesn't work on durations, but I expect this is going to be a significant card.

- I like the idea of Stables making Copper useful - I guess this harmonizes with the other treasure gaining mechanisms in this set.

- A Tunnel/Warehouse or Cellar rush seems whoa, if I'm understanding it correctly.
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nomnomnom

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 05:28:03 pm »
0

Sheme seems like a superb Conspirator enabler. It is also nice for Peddlers.
Also Highway + Markets + some trashing might be really good.
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 05:44:46 pm »
0

Oh, yeah, I wanted to talk about Noble Brigand.  It very much feels like, "We really, really want Thief to work!  Here's an attempt at a fix!"

EDIT:  Nice theming, too.  He robs from the rich (Gold & Silver), and gives to the poor (if you only have Copper, here, have some more Copper!).  Of course, in Dominion, as perhaps in real life, you don't get effectively richer by getting more Copper.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 05:52:57 pm by Epoch »
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ftl

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 05:58:49 pm »
+1

gives to the poor (if you only have Copper, here, have some more Copper!). 

Actually, that's not quite right. You gain a copper if you revealed no treasure. (If you reveal a silver or gold, it gets stolen; if you reveal copper or other treasures, nothing happens; if you reveal only actions or victory cards, THEN you gain a copper).
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 06:04:01 pm »
0

Actually, that's not quite right. You gain a copper if you revealed no treasure. (If you reveal a silver or gold, it gets stolen; if you reveal copper or other treasures, nothing happens; if you reveal only actions or victory cards, THEN you gain a copper).

You're right; I misread.  Still the same theme, though: if you're so poor you don't have any treasure, here, have some Copper!  I don't know, I chuckled.
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 06:14:05 pm »
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Man, I wouldn't have expected a 2 VP card to be one of my leading contenders for most important card in the expansion. Tunnel seems really good.
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 06:15:53 pm »
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Man, I wouldn't have expected a 2 VP card to be one of my leading contenders for most important card in the expansion. Tunnel seems really good.

...Well, it seems really good if you're doing a lot of discarding.  Which...  I mean, in lots of boards, you aren't, right?

Seems likely to be absurdly good with Warehouse, though.  Like, really absurdly good.  Cellar, too, maybe.
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 06:19:51 pm »
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...Well, it seems really good if you're doing a lot of discarding.  Which...  I mean, in lots of boards, you aren't, right?

It's going to happen often. Warehouse/Cellar is most obvious. But as a reaction to Goons, Militia, Margrave, etc. Can Farming Village trigger it? I'm assuming that your opponent playing Spy or Pool cannot. Here are cards you can play in the new set alone that can trigger it: Cartographer, Duchess (weakly), Embassy, Inn, Jack of all trades, Oasis, Oracle (weakly). I think it's going to come into play surprisingly often, and the 2 VP for $3 is pretty good value in itself.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 06:21:26 pm »
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You've also got to buy Tunnel early for it to be of much use and you don't often want green cards early... Although Crossroads has something to say about that.
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 06:24:05 pm »
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You've also got to buy Tunnel early for it to be of much use and you don't often want green cards early... Although Crossroads has something to say about that.

Historically you didn't want greens early, but if you're chewing through them for golds then you'd love to take them early. Tunnel seems like VP you want to open with in at least several scenarios (the aforementioned Tunnel/Warehouse, Tunnel/Cellar, also Tunnel/Horse Traders). And even later on, it's substantially better price performance than Estate in terms of money spent to VP gained. It beats Duchy in that regard, although that's obviously not the only metric that matters.
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2011, 06:24:18 pm »
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It's going to happen often. Warehouse/Cellar is most obvious. But as a reaction to Goons, Militia, Margrave, etc.

Sure, though you have the "Moat problem" for those -- if you're discarding only relatively rarely, you've got an otherwise-not-very-valuable card that only gets good if it happens to coincide with your opponent hitting you with an attack just then.  Tunnel seems better to me than Moat, in the present of Militia/Goons/other discard attacks, but not game-changeingly awesome.

Can Farming Village trigger it?

It says "discard," so I assume so.

I'm assuming that your opponent playing Spy or Pool cannot.

I think it could: Spy says "discard" as well.  But, uh, why would it?  Your opponent doesn't need to make you discard it, and obviously shouldn't.

You could use those cards on yourself, of course.

Long story short on Tunnel: it's still a dead card if you draw it into your hand yourself.  If you can really consistently gain Gold from it (Tunnel/Warehouse), that's probably okay.  If you get it in response to your opponent opening Militia, then you've caused half the Militia effect to yourself once every shuffle, in return for a chance at getting some Golds.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 06:26:37 pm by Epoch »
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chwhite

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2011, 06:27:11 pm »
0

Tunnel is really exciting- even though its reaction is similar to Fool's Gold (gain a Gold if something bad happens), it's still somehow a lot more interesting.  But there will be games where it's impossible to trigger the reaction, so I'm not going to be buying it all the time.

Oracle!  I was totally going to post a fan card that was like a Spy but looked at more than one card.  I'm really glad this exists.

Noble Brigand- man.  It's basically an admission that "you know what, you're right: Thief is well and truly useless all the time".  So, hey, vindication for all the times I've ragged on Thief- but I bet I'm going to really hate games with this around.  Probably closer to "strictly better" than the Hunting Party/Lab duo.

Another interesting thing: Ill-Gotten Gains appears to be the only way to give out Curses in the entire set.  And it's a one-shot deal.  This is the least Cursy we've seen a set ever.  I almost have to wonder if we're running out of balanced and interesting ways to give out Curses.

I have every confidence that these cards are going to kick me around for a good long while- they're much harder to figure (and further from my comfort zone) than Cornucopia.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 06:32:00 pm by chwhite »
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To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2011, 06:27:40 pm »
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I think it could: Spy says "discard" as well.  But, uh, why would it?  Your opponent doesn't need to make you discard it, and obviously shouldn't.

It says when you discard it, not when it is discarded. That's why I'm pretty sure your opponents can toss it happily. You playing Spy on yourself to toss it should trigger it, I agree.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2011, 06:30:16 pm »
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^But "you" do discard it. At least that's how I read the spy card ("Each player reveals..."). The person who plays the spy doesn't reveal and discard other people's cards. He simply causes other players to do it.
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2011, 06:31:43 pm »
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I think it could: Spy says "discard" as well.  But, uh, why would it?  Your opponent doesn't need to make you discard it, and obviously shouldn't.

It says when you discard it, not when it is discarded. That's why I'm pretty sure your opponents can toss it happily. You playing Spy on yourself to toss it should trigger it, I agree.

Interesting parsing.  I hadn't thought of that distinction, but I'm not sure I agree with you.  The text of Spy:

+1 Card; +1 Action
Each player (including you) reveals the top card of his deck and either discards it or puts it back, your choice.

So, a close and technical reading of that sentence indicates that "Each player ... discards [the top card of his deck]."  Grammatically speaking, the subject of the sentence is the player who owns the card, not the player who plays the Spy (obviously, excepting the case where they're one and the same).
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ackack

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2011, 06:32:04 pm »
0

Yeah, after that post I went to look at some councilroom logs and I think you guys are right. Even better for Tunnel!
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Epoch

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2011, 06:34:06 pm »
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Yeah, after that post I went to look at some councilroom logs and I think you guys are right. Even better for Tunnel!

...But still on the gripping hand, the correct play of someone playing a Spy is not to have an opponent discard Tunnel.  So it seems moot.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2011, 06:34:45 pm »
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Heck, 2 VP on a 3 cost card isn't that bad for any reason. Really. It will totally change like every endgame.

You know, thief really isn't that bad. It's not. Like, given the choice, in a 2 player game, between big money and big money thief, take the thief and you'll win very often. With more players, it's quite strong. So I'm expecting Noble Brigand to be really good. You just need to know when to buy it.

guided

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2011, 06:35:17 pm »
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Listen. $3 for 2 VP is good, period. The reaction effect elevates Tunnel to stupidly good status.

edit: Beaten by WW. I was already clicking through from the "hay look new posts screen" so I didn't notice :-[
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 06:37:35 pm by guided »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2011, 06:35:32 pm »
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Yeah, after that post I went to look at some councilroom logs and I think you guys are right. Even better for Tunnel!

...But still on the gripping hand, the correct play of someone playing a Spy is not to have an opponent discard Tunnel.  So it seems moot.
...unless possession is involved.

biopower

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Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2011, 06:36:29 pm »
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Does Chancellor trigger Tunnel? It doesn't say to discard your deck, instead it states to place the deck in the discard pile, which would cause Tunnel to be discarded. It's a semantic distinction but still good to know.
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