Topic: Combo: Scheme/Conspirator (Read 4225 times)

sudgy · « **on:** May 24, 2013, 05:20:02 pm »

This seems so obvious that I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been discovered, but you use two Schemes to always have activated Conspirators.

Schneau · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2013, 05:31:34 pm »

This has been mentioned before, long long ago, but I am too lazy to find where.

Schneau · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2013, 05:32:36 pm »

Nevermind, it was in the Scheme article.

jsh357 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2013, 06:02:29 pm »

I'm actually not a huge fan of this combo in most games, but I mean, if you have enough Schemes and no discard attacks to deal with, of course it's going to be powerful. Needs a good enabler like Ironworks or Armory to be SUPER good. If you've got good trashing, you can probably just stick Schemes back and probably hit your Conspirators without stacking them (and be guaranteed to put Schemes back the next turn).

sudgy · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2013, 06:05:03 pm »

You only need two Schemes, and a lot of Conspirators. It basically makes it so that your deck is full of activated conspirators.

jsh357 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2013, 06:53:02 pm »

Quote from: sudgy on May 24, 2013, 06:05:03 pm

You only need two Schemes, and a lot of Conspirators. It basically makes it so that your deck is full of activated conspirators.

If those are the only cards in your deck, sure, that would work, but they usually won't be. After you, say, buy a Province, your odds of hitting a lot of Conspirators go down. Needs trashing to be guaranteed with only 2 Schemes. And if you get hit by a Militia, you'd better have a backup plan.

eHalcyon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2013, 07:44:45 pm »

Quote from: jsh357 on May 24, 2013, 06:53:02 pm

Quote from: sudgy on May 24, 2013, 06:05:03 pm
You only need two Schemes, and a lot of Conspirators. It basically makes it so that your deck is full of activated conspirators.

If those are the only cards in your deck, sure, that would work, but they usually won't be. After you, say, buy a Province, your odds of hitting a lot of Conspirators go down. Needs trashing to be guaranteed with only 2 Schemes. And if you get hit by a Militia, you'd better have a backup plan.

Nah, the real killer is Minion.

RTT · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2013, 06:59:34 am »

and then again you play 10 activated conspirators and only have one buy. but any card with the +buy is in the way of conspirators chaining up. and without a gainer and trasher it takes very long to build this up.

dondon151 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2013, 09:13:38 am »

There's a lot of auxiliary enablers for this combo: Workshop, Warehouse, trashers with +buy, etc.

It's definitely an interaction to remember.

soulnet · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2013, 10:45:43 am »

There is also non-terminal +Buy: Market Square, Hamlet, Worker's Village. Although given those available, especially Hamlet, I would skip the schemes and buy lots of Hamlets to activate the Conspirators, just to void tempo loss.

rrenaud · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2013, 10:49:58 am »

Councilroom confirms it.

http://councilroom.com/supply_win?&targets=Scheme%2CConspirator&interaction=true&nested=false&unconditional=true

Conspirator is 5th best support for Scheme, Scheme is 8th best support for Conspirator.

soulnet · « **Reply #11 on:** May 25, 2013, 10:57:51 am »

Pirate Ship as a Conspirator enabler, being terminal and not-KC, is incredibly surprising. Then, the other non-terminal usual suspects are there, of course.

eHalcyon · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:05:12 am »

Quote from: soulnet on May 25, 2013, 10:57:51 am

Pirate Ship as a Conspirator enabler, being terminal and not-KC, is incredibly surprising. Then, the other non-terminal usual suspects are there, of course.

What do you mean by "not-KC"? If you mean you can't KC Pirate Ship... Well, you can.

Just a Rube · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:06:23 am »

Quote from: soulnet on May 25, 2013, 10:57:51 am

Pirate Ship as a Conspirator enabler, being terminal and not-KC, is incredibly surprising. Then, the other non-terminal usual suspects are there, of course.

But pirate ship makes virtual coins more powerful, so it's not really surprising. If I'm being attacked by pirate ships and can build a conspirator engine with conspirator and some nonterminal in the other 8 kingdom cards, I ignore the attack and get my coppers trashed, to increase my action density (the other weakness of conspirator).

soulnet · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2013, 01:57:23 pm »

Quote from: eHalcyon on May 25, 2013, 11:05:12 am

What do you mean by "not-KC"? If you mean you can't KC Pirate Ship... Well, you can.

Not, meaning that KC even while being technically terminal, is a logical Conspirator enable. Other terminals (maybe except TR and Golem for the same reason) are not that nice for Conspirators.

soulnet · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2013, 01:59:15 pm »

Quote from: Just a Rube on May 25, 2013, 11:06:23 am

But pirate ship makes virtual coins more powerful, so it's not really surprising. If I'm being attacked by pirate ships and can build a conspirator engine with conspirator and some nonterminal in the other 8 kingdom cards, I ignore the attack and get my coppers trashed, to increase my action density (the other weakness of conspirator).

Ok, I see, I haven thought about "enabled by the opponent". Not a really smart decision to play Pirate Ship against conspirator, you are going to get sunk hard.

WanderingWinder · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:07:46 pm »

Can someone explain to me how your own pirate ship in any way enables conspirators? Okay, any way other than the technical village+PS+conspirator=activation that you can have off of literally any action.

soulnet · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:20:58 pm »

Quote from: WanderingWinder on May 25, 2013, 02:07:46 pm

Can someone explain to me how your own pirate ship in any way enables conspirators? Okay, any way other than the technical village+PS+conspirator=activation that you can have off of literally any action.

If your opponent starts playing PS and you have conspirator and any cantrip, you are getting your Coppers trashed for free while having activated Conspirators all over. Add any kind of +Buy and you are getting double Province turns while the opponent think his ahead with his $7 PSs.

WanderingWinder · « **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:48:35 pm »

Quote from: soulnet on May 25, 2013, 02:20:58 pm

If your opponent starts playing PS and you have conspirator and any cantrip, you are getting your Coppers trashed for free while having activated Conspirators all over. Add any kind of +Buy and you are getting double Province turns while the opponent think his ahead with his $7 PSs.

You didn't answer my question.

Quote from: WanderingWinder on May 25, 2013, 02:07:46 pm

Can someone explain to me how your own pirate ship in any way enables conspirators? Okay, any way other than the technical village+PS+conspirator=activation that you can have off of literally any action.

soulnet · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2013, 03:07:36 pm »

Quote from: WanderingWinder on May 25, 2013, 02:07:46 pm

Can someone explain to me how your own pirate ship in any way enables conspirators? Okay, any way other than the technical village+PS+conspirator=activation that you can have off of literally any action.

That was my question too, then, but I thought it was answered as: "they don't, but that's not what the statistics suggest".

Quote

Δ Qual: The change in quality given the conditioned cards are available.

The statistic only say that Conspirators are effective given Pirate Ship available, not given that both are in the same deck.

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Author Topic: Combo: Scheme/Conspirator (Read 4225 times)