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Author Topic: When to buy a curse  (Read 2690 times)

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Marcory

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When to buy a curse
« on: May 24, 2013, 02:28:20 am »
+2

For my first post, I'd like to hear the edge-casers weigh in on when is a good time to buy (or voluntarily gain) a curse. I can think of two overall categories:
I) when a curse as such is the best card to obtain (voluntarily gain, or buy); and
II) when ANY zero-cost card (copper, curse, ruins) will do.
So here's my (hopefully not exhaustive) list:

Category I

1) to end the game on three piles
2) when Tortured
3) to deal out with Ambassador
4) to boost Fairgrounds
5) (much rarer) to boost Gardens
6) While possessing your opponent, use his +buy to get curses so that you can Watchtower them with your own hand and 3-pile
7)With watchtower in hand as the only trasher in the kingdom, buy the last curse so that your opponent doesn't curse you
8)In a draw-your-deck engine, workshop Curse to boost your Harvest
9) to deal out with Masquerade, when all the Masquerades are out (or maybe in some weird draw-your-deck/workshop/masquerade combo)
10) With Watchtower in hand as the only trasher and you know (via Bureaucrat or some such) that your opponent has a Mountebank in hand (so that you can top-deck the Curse and don't gain a copper as well)
11) When you know that your opponent has Sea Hag in hand, you can buy the last curse so that the curse goes to your discard instead of your deck
12) When you are ahead by a few points and one pile is already gone, to exhaust the Curse pile so that the opponent can't buy the last Duchy, Estate, or Alt VP card


Category II--(this will usually only happen if coppers (and ruins) are already gone)

1) With trader in hand to gain silver
2) When you have played multiple Goons (and coppers are out or you're trying not to 3-pile)
3) You know your opponent has multiple Goons and +action/+buy in hand, and the coppers are gone
4) When the coppers are gone and you play Haggler with no other cheap cards available
5) To add fodder for Junk Dealer or Rats (likely in a draw-your-deck engine)
6) With a Remodel type card, a draw-your-deck engine, and bridge/highway, to get a zero-cost card that can be then upgraded to the card you really need (maybe you don't want to lose any of the cards you already have)
7) With Watchtower in hand, to trigger Market Square

I've tried to think of all of the edge cases, but I'm sure there are many more. Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 02:40:00 am by Marcory »
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Awaclus

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2013, 02:43:48 am »
0

When the curse pile is low, you have played a single Goons and know that your opponent can play cursing attacks before you can play your own cursing attacks, you usually might not want to buy Copper in this situation for the VP, but since you're gaining the curses either way, you can at least negate the VP loss if you buy them.
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eHalcyon

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2013, 03:28:03 am »
0

Category I

#6 is just a special case of #1.  You don't necessarily need Watchtower and you can do it on your own turn just as well as on a possessed turn.

#8 would be extremely unlikely.  You're talking about Workshop here, so it's not like you're restricted to 0 cost cards.  Copper, Silver, Estate and Workshop itself are already 3 unique cards that Harvest can flip.  This is not to mention other dead cards that are likely to come into your deck, ranging from dead actions to other VP.

#9 is also unlikely to be a good strategy.  With Ambassador, you can overwhelm an opponent who has lost the Amb war, sending over more Curses than they can send back at you.  With Masquerade it is different because they also get to pass cards when you play it, and they may very well pass those Curses right back to you.

#12 doesn't quite work.  You can leave the single Curse there and the opponent STILL can't buy the last Duchy/Estate/Alt VP in the given scenario, because then on your turn you could just buy the Curse and end it ahead.



Category II

#2 is technically alright, but if you are buying Curses with Goons it is far more likely that you are trying to 3 pile, not trying to avoid it.  Copper should not be running out in most Goons games; they usually only get bought on a final turn (you've already 3 piled and are just milking the extra buys) or if you have Watchtower in hand.  Buying Coppers in the middle of a Goons game is usually a mistake because it slows down your own deck.

#3 is... meant to be a denial strategy?  Ehhhh.  It would be tough to create a scenario where that works, I think.  I suppose it is possible.

With #4, you also have to specify that you REALLY need to get that card, and you can't do it without Haggler... and that would be a rare situation indeed.

#5 and 6, Copper makes more sense for this unless you are trying to 3 pile.

#6 specifically, if you have a deck that can reliably reduce price for this trick, you should be able to just buy the more expensive card outright, or buy Estate or Silver for $0 instead of a Curse.


Overall, Category II is not so good because you will pretty much always prefer Copper.  So you should really come up with edge cases for why Curse is better.  And those would be:

- trying to (set up) 3 pile
- you're running a Venture (or Adventurer) deck which would get clogged up by Copper
- Copper is somehow low and you DON'T want to 3 pile (this is extremely unlikely)
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Davio

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 04:21:05 am »
+1

Miles EdgeCaseWorth to the rescue!

You know your opponent is holding a Torturer.
You're next hand will contain a Menagerie, a Curse and 3 other uniques.

If you take the last Curse now (with an extra Buy) you don't have to take it next hand, being unable to activate Menagerie, or discard down to 3.
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qmech

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 04:30:11 am »
0

More Torturer: you have a Cellar in hand and want to increase your hand size by 1 so that you can draw your KC/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge off the top of your deck (or less extreme cases).
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eHalcyon

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2013, 04:43:38 am »
+1

More Torturer: you have a Cellar in hand and want to increase your hand size by 1 so that you can draw your KC/KC/Bridge/Bridge/Bridge off the top of your deck (or less extreme cases).

Maybe you want the extra card so that Vault can still get Province if it only finds just a Silver!
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heatthespurs

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 04:45:25 am »
+1

Category I

7)With watchtower in hand as the only trasher in the kingdom, buy the last curse so that your opponent doesn't curse you

I think in general it is fairly common to buy curse with watchtower in hand, if you want to drill the curse pile quickly (for example, your opponent buy a curser and you opt not to)
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serakfalcon

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 05:08:01 am »
0

to activate city so you can pull off a KC-KC-KC bridge bridge bridge ++ turn
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DG

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 06:23:31 am »
+2

The time you would buy curses instead of coppers with goons in play is when the coppers are embargoed.

With a drawing from a card like tactician you have enough assured trashing to remove curses each turn but this will end if the deck expands too much. In this situation you might buy some curses early rather than gain them later buying cards from an embargoed pile.

The next player is using golems + smugglers and you feel lucky.
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Marcory

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 09:32:13 am »
+3

#12 does work. Say you are the second player, ahead by two points but with no money in hand. If you do nothing, the other player can buy the last estate. Then if you buy the last curse, the game will be tied. But if you buy the last curse, then the other player buys the last estate, you will win because you had fewer turns. (this is a slog where no one is buying Provinces and the Duchies are out).
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DG

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2013, 10:42:54 am »
+1

Building on Marcory's suggestion, in a multiplayer game you might buy a curse to specifically leave yourself 6 points ahead of the next player so they can end the game on a tie. This might be a better result than letting a player later in the turn order win the game outright.
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eHalcyon

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 11:08:44 am »
+1

#12 does work. Say you are the second player, ahead by two points but with no money in hand. If you do nothing, the other player can buy the last estate. Then if you buy the last curse, the game will be tied. But if you buy the last curse, then the other player buys the last estate, you will win because you had fewer turns. (this is a slog where no one is buying Provinces and the Duchies are out).

Ah, touche.
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Marcory

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 12:09:14 pm »
0

Oh, and of course Junk Dealer and its ilk don't need fodder if you've drawn your deck (though maybe you'd topdeck the Curse with Watchtower/Armory), but Mercenary does.
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eHalcyon

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 12:12:43 pm »
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Oh, and of course Junk Dealer and its ilk don't need fodder if you've drawn your deck (though maybe you'd topdeck the Curse with Watchtower/Armory), but Mercenary does.

Not sure what you mean.  Junk Dealer still makes you trash a card, whether you've drawn your deck or not.
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Marcory

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2013, 12:22:26 pm »
0

oh, right. my bad. I meant when you had played your deck, not just drawn it--in that case Mercenary would need fodder for the coin bonus.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 12:26:04 pm by Marcory »
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PSGarak

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Re: When to buy a curse
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2013, 01:23:39 pm »
0

Extra bonus Goons edge case: If you don't want to 3-pile the game, and Coppers are almost gone. I'll assume that you have an Outpost in play, so that you can score a few more points before your opponent picks up that last copper.
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