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Author Topic: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion  (Read 598548 times)

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AdamH

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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #350 on: August 06, 2013, 01:38:53 pm »
+6

If Goko put resources into an arms race with extension developers, I'm sure they'd win, as they have full-time programmers.

You would think that, but look at all of the features our awesome people have made that they couldn't be bothered to do. There is no doubt in my mind that these people are much more competent programmers than those at Goko.

That being said, I think they would have legal grounds to stop the extension if they wanted.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #351 on: August 06, 2013, 05:00:45 pm »
+9

If Goko decided to be in an arms race, that would be stupid, because they could just put those resources into actually making the game better so we wouldn't need the extension.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #352 on: August 06, 2013, 05:02:13 pm »
+4

Goko has programmers? Seriously, I thought their stuff was all contracted out now to that Vietnamese (do I remember that right?) company.

Anyhow, IANAL, but I imagine they could deny you service for developing/using extension (though I doubt they would), but they can't really stop you from making it.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:30:57 pm by WanderingWinder »
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #353 on: August 06, 2013, 05:05:37 pm »
+7

If Goko put resources into an arms race with extension developers, they've already lost (perspective). Block an extension that people are making for free that turns your crap product into a playable one just because those people came out and said your product was crap? That sounds ludicrous. I know I wouldn't be using goko if the extension didn't work.
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ragingduckd

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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #354 on: August 06, 2013, 06:34:05 pm »
+8

Goko can thwart the extension any time they want to. It's running in their JavaScript namespace and they can even download the source code. We couldn't "win" an arms race with Goko while keeping the extension public, nor would I personally be interested in that fight. They can also deny you service for using the extension or for pretty much any other reason, according to their TOS. I don't think they're likely to get too aggressive on that front, though. Even ooksoo still has his account.

Other than the tag line (and yeah, that was probably a bit over the top), I can't really think of any reason for Goko to resent the extension. It doesn't provide an unfair advantage, nor does it draw additional server resources. Most of its features have been suggested on getsatisfaction and gotten responses like "yeah, that sounds nice and we might do it someday." If Goko started worrying about game mods, they'd do better to target unofficial ones, like a point counter that doesn't offer #vpoff or an exploit of the kingdom-fixing vulnerability michaeljb reported.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #355 on: August 06, 2013, 07:03:25 pm »
+2


1. Lobby unification. It turns out to be possible to trick the server into letting you join multiple lobbies without opening multiple tabs. It's a little harder to actually display all the tables simultaneously as though they were all from a single lobby, but I think it's doable.

In this case, wouldn't 50 users using this extension make ALL the rooms 'full', preventing regular users from entering?
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Polk5440

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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #356 on: August 06, 2013, 07:08:40 pm »
0


1. Lobby unification. It turns out to be possible to trick the server into letting you join multiple lobbies without opening multiple tabs. It's a little harder to actually display all the tables simultaneously as though they were all from a single lobby, but I think it's doable.

In this case, wouldn't 50 users using this extension make ALL the rooms 'full', preventing regular users from entering?

I am wondering this, too.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #357 on: August 06, 2013, 07:23:32 pm »
+3


1. Lobby unification. It turns out to be possible to trick the server into letting you join multiple lobbies without opening multiple tabs. It's a little harder to actually display all the tables simultaneously as though they were all from a single lobby, but I think it's doable.

In this case, wouldn't 50 users using this extension make ALL the rooms 'full', preventing regular users from entering?

We'll just all have to start meeting in Throne Room XIII.
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ragingduckd

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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #358 on: August 06, 2013, 07:27:09 pm »
0


1. Lobby unification. It turns out to be possible to trick the server into letting you join multiple lobbies without opening multiple tabs. It's a little harder to actually display all the tables simultaneously as though they were all from a single lobby, but I think it's doable.

In this case, wouldn't 50 users using this extension make ALL the rooms 'full', preventing regular users from entering?

Only if they're all seeking games simultaneously. Once you start a game, you can leave all the lobbies except the one your game was created in.
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GwinnR

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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #359 on: August 07, 2013, 12:57:56 pm »
+2

Feature request: Let me search for a person. As goko puts you in different rooms after a game, when the previous room is full, it is hard to find your opponent again. And sometimes you see someone you want to play against and then he disappears and you don't know where he went.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #360 on: August 07, 2013, 01:48:22 pm »
0


1. Lobby unification. It turns out to be possible to trick the server into letting you join multiple lobbies without opening multiple tabs. It's a little harder to actually display all the tables simultaneously as though they were all from a single lobby, but I think it's doable.

In this case, wouldn't 50 users using this extension make ALL the rooms 'full', preventing regular users from entering?

Only if they're all seeking games simultaneously. Once you start a game, you can leave all the lobbies except the one your game was created in.

This seems like the kind of thing that could potentially cause problems for goko and make them want to shut down the extension. How implausible is it that there are 50 extension users all trying to find a game at the same time. That doesn't seem like that many.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #361 on: August 07, 2013, 02:34:34 pm »
+1

This seems like the kind of thing that could potentially cause problems for goko and make them want to shut down the extension. How implausible is it that there are 50 extension users all trying to find a game at the same time. That doesn't seem like that many.

If there are 50 extension users all trying to find a game, shouldn't most of them get matched up with each other fairly quickly?
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #362 on: August 07, 2013, 02:45:01 pm »
+1

Since you're storing the automatch data outside goko, wouldn't it be possible to not even have to look into the rooms?  Unless I'm missing something, couldn't you have matched users automatically enter a lobby with no one in it and begin their game?
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #363 on: August 07, 2013, 03:05:14 pm »
+1

Since you're storing the automatch data outside goko, wouldn't it be possible to not even have to look into the rooms?  Unless I'm missing something, couldn't you have matched users automatically enter a lobby with no one in it and begin their game?

This isn't about automatch though, it's about being able to see all of the open games at once, not just the few in the lobby you're currently in.
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ragingduckd

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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #364 on: August 07, 2013, 03:09:11 pm »
+1

Since you're storing the automatch data outside goko, wouldn't it be possible to not even have to look into the rooms?  Unless I'm missing something, couldn't you have matched users automatically enter a lobby with no one in it and begin their game?

This isn't about automatch though, it's about being able to see all of the open games at once, not just the few in the lobby you're currently in.

Ninja'd.

This seems like the kind of thing that could potentially cause problems for goko and make them want to shut down the extension. How implausible is it that there are 50 extension users all trying to find a game at the same time. That doesn't seem like that many.

If there are 50 extension users all trying to find a game, shouldn't most of them get matched up with each other fairly quickly?

I think so. I don't really expect to run into the 50-user problem to happen, but I'll be cautious about the implementation anyway (e.g. set it up to join just one extra lobby, then see how that goes, etc). I could even make it throttle the number of extra lobbies you can join in accordance with the number of active extension users. For what it's worth, you can already do the same thing manually... just open up extra tabs and log in to every room. Goko doesn't seem to care.

If lobby unification really would end up filling up the lobbies, then one alternative is to have my server send a single observer to each room and report the available games and players to all the extension users. The disadvantages are that you'd be dependent on my server being up and that you might  be unable to join the already-full lobby where someone is offering the game you want. With client-side lobby unification, you'd already be in.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #365 on: August 07, 2013, 11:59:41 pm »
+1

There's actually a good reason why Goko would not want this extension implemented, and in my eyes, it's a pretty legitimate one.

The existence of the automatch function means that it's easier for players to find matches, and consistently play, without purchasing the card.

The 50 player lobbies are frustrating, but they're MUCH more frustrating to someone who has to find a game, rather than simply creating one. An automatch function makes it easier for players to skate by without purchasing the sets, thus potentially hurting Goko's profits. For a business, that's a pretty big issue.


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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #366 on: August 08, 2013, 02:32:31 am »
+2

There's actually a good reason why Goko would not want this extension implemented, and in my eyes, it's a pretty legitimate one.

The existence of the automatch function means that it's easier for players to find matches, and consistently play, without purchasing the card.

The 50 player lobbies are frustrating, but they're MUCH more frustrating to someone who has to find a game, rather than simply creating one. An automatch function makes it easier for players to skate by without purchasing the sets, thus potentially hurting Goko's profits. For a business, that's a pretty big issue.

If this was the only way to have fun on the Internet that might work. "This is frustrating! I'll pay some money to take away the frustration." But since it's not I think it makes better business sense to try to make it fun to begin with: "This is fun! I'll keep using it -- Hm, will it get even more fun if I pay some money?"

As for me I thought I would stop playing Dominion online earlier, but now, with several improvements, both in Goko itself, and with the extension, I am playing it and have for the first time considered buying some cards. If I knew they were thinking "oh no, he is having too much fun with our site. Let's take away some of that fun, because then we will surely pay us money" that would go away again.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #367 on: August 08, 2013, 03:43:07 am »
+7

2.1

New tagline, the title now includes "Dominion," and some less interesting backend code change stuff. There were some changes to the automatch, I don't believe it's all working yet, but wanted to do a release to settle down the tagline controversy at least :P

Also, something's probably broken, but I won't know that until tomorrow morning.
At least, that's how this release-late-at-night thing has usually worked out for me.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #368 on: August 08, 2013, 04:37:02 am »
+1

2.1

New tagline, the title now includes "Dominion," and some less interesting backend code change stuff. There were some changes to the automatch, I don't believe it's all working yet, but wanted to do a release to settle down the tagline controversy at least :P

Also, something's probably broken, but I won't know that until tomorrow morning.
At least, that's how this release-late-at-night thing has usually worked out for me.

I don't think this went through. The Firefox version is unchanged anyway.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #369 on: August 08, 2013, 05:50:31 am »
+1

2.1

New tagline, the title now includes "Dominion," and some less interesting backend code change stuff. There were some changes to the automatch, I don't believe it's all working yet, but wanted to do a release to settle down the tagline controversy at least :P

Also, something's probably broken, but I won't know that until tomorrow morning.
At least, that's how this release-late-at-night thing has usually worked out for me.

I don't think this went through. The Firefox version is unchanged anyway.

Chrome updated to 2.1, so it works there.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #370 on: August 08, 2013, 05:51:06 am »
+6

Feature request: pull out any and all code/circuits/wires that allow that horrendous theme song to play.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #371 on: August 08, 2013, 06:10:09 am »
0

Automatch submit button works in Chrome.  Haven't found a match, though.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #372 on: August 08, 2013, 09:13:09 am »
0

Question about Automatch.  When I specify the sets to play with, does that mean it's looking for users with those sets bought?  I own all the cards, so I'd prefer the randomizer to just choose from mine.
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Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« Reply #373 on: August 08, 2013, 09:20:34 am »
+1

OK, I think I got 2.1 into the Firefox store, not sure what I did wrong with that last night.
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Re: Goko Salvager Discussion
« Reply #374 on: August 08, 2013, 09:26:31 am »
+2

Since you're storing the automatch data outside goko, wouldn't it be possible to not even have to look into the rooms?  Unless I'm missing something, couldn't you have matched users automatically enter a lobby with no one in it and begin their game?

This isn't about automatch though, it's about being able to see all of the open games at once, not just the few in the lobby you're currently in.

Ninja'd.

I don't know how much load this would be for your server (and for your code), but couldn't the users of the extensions not just communicate on who is in which room? I mean, if there is only 1 user, they might enter 50 rooms, but if there are more, they could each enter different rooms and tell each other on what the lobbies look like?
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