Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Is border village a trap?  (Read 13995 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1855
    • View Profile
Is border village a trap?
« on: October 16, 2011, 03:44:29 pm »
0

Two banal observations:

1. Times one certainly buys border village: there's a card that costs less than 6 which you would prefer to gold if border village weren't on the board. Example: late game duchy, minion (often), wharf (often). Barring unusual circumstances (e.g. fear of emptying a pile), you'll always buy border village in these cases.

2. Times one certainly doesn't buy border village: there's no card on the board costing 5 or less such that you prefer (that card + village) to gold.

These are obvious.

The "trap" I'm referring to is for "in between" fives: cards you'd never consider taking over a gold, but might consider taking if they come with a free village. I've lost about a billion games within the span of the last day just by failing to compute which cards are worth picking up over gold (with a free village) and which aren't.

Any rules of thumb? My limited games so far suggest that in essentially all of these borderline cases, the free village isn't worth it, i.e., you shouldn't buy border village unless you're in case 1 above (buying something you'd already take over gold.)

Anyone want to argue a counterexample? This is a card that costs under 5, which you typically wouldn't buy over gold, but that you would buy over gold if it came with a free village.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 05:43:35 pm »
0

The border village is the new fishing village?
Logged

ChaosRed

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 387
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 05:46:26 pm »
0

I like it most for the late-game Dutchy grab, as I feel the village powers buffer me (somewhat) from gaining an additional Victory card. Border Village enables a Gardens deck nicely I feel, but I generally never look at any 6-cost action until I have at least two (maybe three) Gold already acquired. Minion is a card Border Village might prompt me to buy, even though I have no gold. As I feel Border Village and Minion blend fairly well.
Logged

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +442
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 06:00:54 pm »
0

I might take Gold over Rabble, but Border Village + Rabble over Gold.
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2746
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3668
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 06:07:33 pm »
0

I like it most for the late-game Dutchy grab, as I feel the village powers buffer me (somewhat) from gaining an additional Victory card. Border Village enables a Gardens deck nicely I feel, but I generally never look at any 6-cost action until I have at least two (maybe three) Gold already acquired. Minion is a card Border Village might prompt me to buy, even though I have no gold. As I feel Border Village and Minion blend fairly well.

Border village, like vanilla village, does nothing to buffer you against victory cards. If you ever have a hand where you don't use the extra action, it is essentially a nothing card. You draw the village instead of the card you would have drawn anyway.

As far as the OP is concerned, border village is worht taking over a gold when you'd like to have a complicated engine going, but the opportunity cost of getting the villages to run it is too high. I would imagine something like any variant on village/smithy would work. And I do agree with ChaosRed, it works wonderfully with minion. I don't always want to run a minion engine, but with border village and any halfway decent supporting terminal, I'd take border village over gold.
Logged

biopower

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • Respect: +4
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 06:14:59 pm »
0

What comes to mind as the best counterexamples to ehunt's statement are the cheap trash for benefit cards like Remodel and Salvager (and Remake and Upgrade if there are good $7 cards). Remodel gives you a province directly, and Salvager gives you $6, which is likely a province. Remake is more situational, but Upgrades are great simply because you can Upgrade an Upgrade into another Border Village or a Gold. I could also see people getting it for Bridges instead of Golds if spamming bridges were viable (i.e. there's a decent source of draw). Alternatively, with Forge on the table grabbing $2 cards to forge into provinces might be viable.
Logged

Saucery

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 93
  • Respect: +82
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 06:37:27 pm »
0

The new village idiot is the guy buying these and gaining non-terminals all day (Except if they're using trash for benefit cards)

I've already seen it spammed on festivals and labs
Logged

rrenaud

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 991
  • Uncivilized Barbarian of Statistics
  • Respect: +1197
    • View Profile
    • CouncilRoom
Logged

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1855
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 09:22:04 pm »
0

That's devastating data to my central thesis, especially since you would expect there to be an error toward buying border village too often in the first few days after the release of the card.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 09:48:10 pm »
0

It should be a good card. There are a lot of games where the border village is entirely an improvement on how you'd play without it, given that you'd buy a 5 cost card ahead of gold anyway. I played a fun 3 player scrying pool game earlier and there was no way anyone was going to buy a gold instead of a border village+festival (or harvest).

Logged

def

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 239
  • Respect: +166
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 06:38:58 am »
0

I had a nice game yesterday where I bought many border villages to gain council rooms and militia was available, too. Still, I almost lost to fool's gold (which was somehow countered and supported by my strategy), so you have to be careful when going for obvious, great looking combos.

That said, don't be fooled. When you'd normally buy a gold over a 5$-card with 6$, you shouldn't go for border village plus that 5 unless it's for a game-winning engine.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 06:48:46 am »
0

I had a nice game yesterday where I bought many border villages to gain council rooms and militia was available, too. Still, I almost lost to fool's gold (which was somehow countered and supported by my strategy), so you have to be careful when going for obvious, great looking combos.

That said, don't be fooled. When you'd normally buy a gold over a 5$-card with 6$, you shouldn't go for border village plus that 5 unless it's for a game-winning engine.
Well, your Council Rooms may have inadvertently triggered some of your opponent's FG line-ups...
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3840
  • Respect: +2219
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 10:43:04 am »
0

I could see BV being a great pick with Quarry in play. This means you can buy it with only $4, so you are spared the dilemma of choosing between BV and Gold.

Just don't make a mistake and play three Quarries and then buy a Border Village. I've never seen it happen, but I'm sure it'd be hilarious.
Logged
A man has no signature

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 11:01:31 am »
0

I could see BV being a great pick with Quarry in play. This means you can buy it with only $4, so you are spared the dilemma of choosing between BV and Gold.

Just don't make a mistake and play three Quarries and then buy a Border Village. I've never seen it happen, but I'm sure it'd be hilarious.
But if you buy BV for $4, you can only gain another card costing up to $3 or an action card that cost $5 originally. => No Duchy for instance.  :-\
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2011, 11:03:51 am »
0

I could see BV being a great pick with Quarry in play. This means you can buy it with only $4, so you are spared the dilemma of choosing between BV and Gold.

Just don't make a mistake and play three Quarries and then buy a Border Village. I've never seen it happen, but I'm sure it'd be hilarious.
But if you buy BV for $4, you can only gain another card costing up to $3.  :-\

As long as you already intended to gain an Action card with it, that's not a problem as they all cost $2 less anyway. If you want a Duchy or another Quarry or something with it, then yeah, it doesn't work.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaand you edited as I posted...
Logged

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3840
  • Respect: +2219
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2011, 11:25:09 am »
0

But if you buy BV for $4, you can only gain another card costing up to $3 or an action card that cost $5 originally. => No Duchy for instance.  :-\

Sorry, I meant that as implied, but I shouldn't have assumed that. I was thinking more for the early game when you have to choose between a Gold or a Border Village + $5 card. If you have Quarry in your deck, then your decisions are easier.

Though you both raise good points that you don't want to play Quarry in the late game if you plan on gaining Border Village + Duchy. Also hilarious.
Logged
A man has no signature

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +442
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2011, 01:18:41 pm »
0

Border Village isn't a trap, it's A-1 awesomesauce.

Fool's Gold, Mandarin, Trader, Nomad Camp, and possibly even Crossroads are all traps, though.  (Haven't played with the other two yet, but I bet they're both a little trappy.)
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

philosophyguy

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 575
  • Respect: +299
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2011, 06:18:55 pm »
0

Crossroads isn't a trap if there are more Victory-type cards in play (especially Great Halls, but Nobles and Harems work well too; haven't tried with Gardens yet). It's actually very effective—for $2 you get a decent engine card.

Trader is very useful in Ambassador games. You can either explode extra Estates into pairs of Silvers or make it so your opponent is sending you Silver. I think this might be the first card to make Ambassador not a must-buy opener.
Logged

ChaosRed

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 387
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2011, 06:34:52 pm »
0

I think on a lot of boards Border Village isn't a trap. The biggest trap card I think (so far) is Traders, although I love the card.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2011, 08:25:03 pm »
+1

Insert <admiral-ackbar.jpg>
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +442
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2011, 08:32:28 pm »
0

I love the title of Fool's Gold BTW.

It's straight up telling you THIS CARD IS A TRAP.  And people buy it anyway!  (Admittedly it can sometimes be a good buy.  But sure seems like it's usually a trap.)
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

ImperialStout

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2011, 10:09:35 pm »
0

It is frequently advantageous to buy Border Villages over Gold when:

-- You are going to most likely remodel, farmlands or expand the BV into a Province/Platinum.  The extra 5$ card is effectively free in this scenario.

-- You are going for a quick 3 stack win.  Exhaust the BV stack and another stack simultaneously.

-- Conspirators and peddlers.

Logged

Stoc

  • Alchemist
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2011, 11:42:31 am »
0

I got devastated by Border Village / Rabble in a game with no +buy. I thought my opponent was way over building their deck, but once my deck started to green it completely shut me down allowing him a huge comeback window.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 11:54:59 am »
0

Insert <admiral-ackbar.jpg>
Hehe, I can never read or hear someone saying this without thinking about it.

That's what memes do to you.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

ChaosRed

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 387
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Is border village a trap?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 01:22:50 pm »
0

Border Village + Wharf killed me last night.

I was dorking around with just Wharf and Tournament, I landed the Trust Steed, but it was way to late. He murdered me. Actually Tournament is a card I've NEVER won with. NEVER. Weird huh? Buying it too early I guess, or simply not reading the board right when its there.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.149 seconds with 20 queries.