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[Kirian]

Which reminds me!

I want to give a shout out here to ftl, bama, mail-mi, D Bo, and gman314, who all came into this round with three losses--and in a couple of cases their only win was a win by default or bye--yet stuck around to play (or try to play) their final matches.  Also to yed, who went into round 4 with just one point and played that match (he received a bye this round).

Thank you for continuing to play despite your losses, and therefore for making my math easier.

[gman314]

Sure, I could give up, but why would I give up a good excuse to play some Dominion? With good opponents too!

[mail-mi]

Sure, I could give up, but why would I give up a good excuse to play some Dominion? With good opponents too!

[soulnet]

Geronimoo?  Lespeutere?  Stealth Tomato?  Zauberererererer?  I'd hate for people to get bumped out of the finals for not playing the last match...

Edit:  Though I'm certain there are people with 3-1-1 records who wouldn't mind.

As one of the potential  beneficiaries of the situation (although I actually have 2-3-0), I feel obliged to ask, shouldn't they all receive draws if they could not schedule their match?

BTW, idea for next season, using "number of actually played matches" or similar as tie-breaker to give people less incentive to not play to get a draw.

[Kirian]

Geronimoo?  Lespeutere?  Stealth Tomato?  Zauberererererer?  I'd hate for people to get bumped out of the finals for not playing the last match...

Edit:  Though I'm certain there are people with 3-1-1 records who wouldn't mind.

As one of the potential  beneficiaries of the situation (although I actually have 2-3-0), I feel obliged to ask, shouldn't they all receive draws if they could not schedule their match?

BTW, idea for next season, using "number of actually played matches" or similar as tie-breaker to give people less incentive to not play to get a draw.

"For scoring purposes, a win, draw, or loss by default still counts as 2, 1, or 0 points.  For tie-breaker scores, a win by default counts as 1 point, and a draw or loss by default counts as 0 points."

There already is such a rule... I just never stated it mathematically.  I will be certain to do so next season.  By the rules as written, though, there are a pair of people who stand to lose by not having sent a PM, which gives a win-by-default to vault two people into the 8-point range.  It's an odd situation.

[SCSN]

I think it would be better to give us 1 weak and start quarterfinals in 1 weak, if you and the 6 people who already qualified aggree.

That's really not particularly fair to the people who scheduled their matches.  No one in the current top 8 has been involved in a default or missed match.

I'll think on it; something will go in the regs next season for final round problems like this.

What about giving them two more days, and if they still haven't played their match by then make them ties by default, even if someone had more time during those two days than the other?

[yed]

I think it would be better to give us 1 weak and start quarterfinals in 1 weak, if you and the 6 people who already qualified aggree.

That's really not particularly fair to the people who scheduled their matches.  No one in the current top 8 has been involved in a default or missed match.

I'll think on it; something will go in the regs next season for final round problems like this.

What about giving them two more days, and if they still haven't played their match by then make them ties by default, even if someone had more time during those two days than the other?

I think we should stick to the rules as stated before tournament.

[Tdog]

Heatthespurs Defeats Tdog 3-0 in 3 action packed  base games.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130520/log.505cb4ec51c3c35f7e45ae66.1369042750797.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130520/log.505cb4ec51c3c35f7e45ae66.1369043494224.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130520/log.505cb4ec51c3c35f7e45ae66.1369044260424.txt

[Kirian]

And a late thank you to Tdog and heatthespurs for also finishing their last match, again despite going in with just 2 points each.

Final Top 8, after accounting for tiebreakers and missed matches:

Mic Qsenoch
DG
Rabid
Polk5440
SheCantSayNo
kn1tt3r
Watno
RTT

Congratulations to the playoff participants, including some names we haven't seen at the top of a list like this previously.  I'll have a results thread posted shortly.  Matches will be based on seed:

MicQsenoch vs. RTT
DG vs. Watno
Rabid vs. kn1tt3r
Polk5440 vs. SheCantSayNo

[AdamH]

Me: "You're probably watching this video and thinking 'You moron, don't get a Develop! That's STOOPID!'"

25: Yes! that's exactly what I think about develop.

I lol-ed.

Also about the finals, I'm glad that people who didn't bother to play their round 5 match aren't getting there over people who did. Nice call, Kirian.

[shraeye]

Oh, me and Drowned Kernel are still in the middle of our match, he had connection issues last night.

[lespeutere]

In case everyone of these 8 has a better score than I have, there's obviously nothing to be said against it (I can't access the score result sheet atm). Otherwise, I'd like to ask: so the match against ST I "missed" was not counted then? I don't believe this is particularly fair, as it was (for me, at least) clearly not my fault it was not played. I don't know what I could've done more to have it been played. I waited for several hours, yesterday, and could've played this morning had I been contacted.

[soulnet]

Also about the finals, I'm glad that people who didn't bother to play their round 5 match aren't getting there over people who did. Nice call, Kirian.

so the match against ST I "missed" was not counted then?

Actually, there is a tie by default between lespeteure and Stealth Tomate, and both are not in the final eight. I think its fair given the posted rules, and I DO NOT suspect anything wrong has been done, but for next season, probably last round should give no draws by default.

The only thing I can add is "snif", but, hey, at least 2 of my drawn matches I could have won if I did not make stupid mistakes (assuming the rival mantained their stupid mistakes in place), so...

Thanks Kirian for the hard job putting this together.

EDIT: Ups, I've misinterpreted the rankings in the spreadsheet.

[AdamH]

Also about the finals, I'm glad that people who didn't bother to play their round 5 match aren't getting there over people who did. Nice call, Kirian.

Actually, there is a tie by default between lespeteure and Stealth Tomate, and both are in the final eight. I think its fair given the posted rules, and I DO NOT suspect anything wrong has been done, but for next season, probably last round should give no draws by default.

The only thing I can add is "snif", but, hey, at least 2 of my drawn matches I could have won if I did not make stupid mistakes (assuming the rival mantained their stupid mistakes in place), so...

Thanks Kirian for the hard job putting this together.

Going into the last round, I could have just been absolutely unavailable all the times my opponent could have played and gotten a draw out of the match. Due to my good tiebreaker score I would have a very good shot at making the finals with that outcome.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here actually did, and there a bunch of info I don't have, but that's a situation where giving people a tie might be unfair.

[soulnet]

Going into the last round, I could have just been absolutely unavailable all the times my opponent could have played and gotten a draw out of the match. Due to my good tiebreaker score I would have a very good shot at making the finals with that outcome.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here actually did, and there a bunch of info I don't have, but that's a situation where giving people a tie might be unfair.

Exactly my point, although there was no rule stating that something different than tie by default would be done for the last round, so I don't think its fair to do it after-the-fact. We are not JoaTs.

[Kirian]

Going into the last round, I could have just been absolutely unavailable all the times my opponent could have played and gotten a draw out of the match. Due to my good tiebreaker score I would have a very good shot at making the finals with that outcome.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here actually did, and there a bunch of info I don't have, but that's a situation where giving people a tie might be unfair.

Exactly my point, although there was no rule stating that something different than tie by default would be done for the last round, so I don't think its fair to do it after-the-fact. We are not JoaTs.

No, but there is a rule about tie-by-default being a technically worse outcome than an actual tie.  If we assign lespeutere and Stealth Tomato a tie by default, then both of them have a lower score than someone with 7 points from actual matches.  This was not spelled out mathematically, unfortunately; it will be next time.

The difficulty here is one of assigning "blame."  Is lespeutere to blame for not playing their match?  It would appear not (from his PM to me).  Is Stealth Tomato to blame for not playing their match?  It would appear not from lespeutere's PM to me... but of course lespeutere sees it differently, and I'll admit it's less clear.  It's similarly unclear for the zaubererer-Geronimoo match, based on the post in this thread.

So, do we assign wins by default--that is, blame one or the other player--or ties by default?  If we assign the former, then lespeutere and zaubererer go into the playoffs, and Watno and RTT get dropped out.  Which is the better player:  Someone with a 3-1-0 record, or someone with a (3+/-1)-(0+/-1)-(0+/-1) record?

Basically I had to make a benevolent dictator decision; in this case, I assigned ties by default.  This puts all four players below anyone else with 7 points.

I know this will make lespuetere and zaubererer annoyed with me; the other choice, of course, makes Watno and RTT annoyed with me.  Thankfully, this tournament is entirely for S&G, and there will be another one soon enough.  I hope that those who may be annoyed by this decision will play again next round; there will be a better mathematical decision before-the-fact next time, rather than an ambiguity in the rules.

[Kirian]

And of course as I post that I get a PM from Stealth Tomato offering a forfeit.  Damn it.

----

No.  Brackets are already posted; PMs are likely already flying between playoff contestants.  What's done is done

----

My apologies to lespeutere.  Someone will always feel slighted, whether by the luck of the cards, the math of the tiebreakers, or the necessary executive decisions.  The by-default ordering will be more clear next season.

[lespeutere]

Needless to say I do believe it's not a good way how things have been resolved.

Regardless of this personal view: if "Solk" is the first tie-breaker, how come there are people with less "Solk" AND people with more "Solk" than I have in the last 8? Do I miss something?

[zaubererer]

kirian, I believe your decision not to give the qualification to anyone from us 4 was right. But, i dont think there would be  a big problem with the organization of the tournamement if we had some more days to play. ( i would have prefered to lose from geronimo than losing the qualification because i didnt play). Moreover, it was dificult for me to play at the first days, but i would have if i werent so sure you would give us some more days. Nevermind, thx for the organization of the tournament, and good luck to all 8 qualifiers.

[Kirian]

BTW, idea for next season, using "number of actually played matches" or similar as tie-breaker to give people less incentive to not play to get a draw.

"For scoring purposes, a win, draw, or loss by default still counts as 2, 1, or 0 points.  For tie-breaker scores, a win by default counts as 1 point, and a draw or loss by default counts as 0 points."

There already is such a rule... I just never stated it mathematically.  I will be certain to do so next season.

In other words, there is a tiebreaker which was only intended for use in the last round, and therefore was not calculated explicitly in the rankings.  All of the players with 7 points and a default are behind those with 7 points and no defaults.

[lespeutere]

kirian, I believe your decision not to give the qualification to anyone from us 4 was right.

Not that it changes anything, but I don't think you can judge on ST's and my case as I tried to solve it via PM before today.

BTW, idea for next season, using "number of actually played matches" or similar as tie-breaker to give people less incentive to not play to get a draw.

"For scoring purposes, a win, draw, or loss by default still counts as 2, 1, or 0 points.  For tie-breaker scores, a win by default counts as 1 point, and a draw or loss by default counts as 0 points."

There already is such a rule... I just never stated it mathematically.  I will be certain to do so next season.

In other words, there is a tiebreaker which was only intended for use in the last round, and therefore was not calculated explicitly in the rankings.  All of the players with 7 points and a default are behind those with 7 points and no defaults.

Thanks, got it.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm sorry to report that shraeye had a number of scheduling conflicts and techincal difficulties and were unable to complete our match. We managed to get two and a half rounds last night going 1-1, but then my connection died during the third game and I couldn't log back into goko. We're going to have to call it a tie. Here's the games we managed to finish.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130519/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1369020143192.txt
Ironmonger shines with both nobles and harem on the board.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130519/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1369020767104.txt
A board with a lot of power cards. I focus on goons and try to strategically upgrade silvers into silk roads but it's not enough against a governor stack.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130519/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1369021660582.txt
The interrupted game. Shraeye goes for deck thinning while I try Count/Gardens. I have a lead when my connection dies but he was starting to pick up Provinces so who's to say.

Thanks for what games we did manage Shraeye, sorry this was such a mess and kind of an anticlimactic way to end the tournament. Good luck in future gokodoms!

[Stealth Tomato]

Going into the last round, I could have just been absolutely unavailable all the times my opponent could have played and gotten a draw out of the match. Due to my good tiebreaker score I would have a very good shot at making the finals with that outcome.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here actually did, and there a bunch of info I don't have, but that's a situation where giving people a tie might be unfair.

Exactly my point, although there was no rule stating that something different than tie by default would be done for the last round, so I don't think its fair to do it after-the-fact. We are not JoaTs.

No, but there is a rule about tie-by-default being a technically worse outcome than an actual tie.  If we assign lespeutere and Stealth Tomato a tie by default, then both of them have a lower score than someone with 7 points from actual matches.  This was not spelled out mathematically, unfortunately; it will be next time.

The difficulty here is one of assigning "blame."  Is lespeutere to blame for not playing their match?  It would appear not (from his PM to me).  Is Stealth Tomato to blame for not playing their match?  It would appear not from lespeutere's PM to me... but of course lespeutere sees it differently, and I'll admit it's less clear.  It's similarly unclear for the zaubererer-Geronimoo match, based on the post in this thread.

So, do we assign wins by default--that is, blame one or the other player--or ties by default?  If we assign the former, then lespeutere and zaubererer go into the playoffs, and Watno and RTT get dropped out.  Which is the better player:  Someone with a 3-1-0 record, or someone with a (3+/-1)-(0+/-1)-(0+/-1) record?

Basically I had to make a benevolent dictator decision; in this case, I assigned ties by default.  This puts all four players below anyone else with 7 points.

I know this will make lespuetere and zaubererer annoyed with me; the other choice, of course, makes Watno and RTT annoyed with me.  Thankfully, this tournament is entirely for S&G, and there will be another one soon enough.  I hope that those who may be annoyed by this decision will play again next round; there will be a better mathematical decision before-the-fact next time, rather than an ambiguity in the rules.

As noted in the PM I sent to you, I am totally at fault for our match not being played. There were tight time constraints but I agreed to work within them and then wasn't able to due to circumstances partially within my control. That's on me.

My apologies to lespeutere if this prevents him from having a shot at the final eight.