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[juffowup]

I've been thinking about gender representation in the board games I own and I was thinking of calculating the answer to this question. I decided write down what my personal estimate was before counting, and figured it would be an interesting exercise to see what others thought as well.

Please answer this according to your best estimation right now and without consulting a resource.  Among Dominion cards that feature a single character, what percentage feature a woman?

For the purposes of this question, we only consider those cards with a single human who is the subject of the art, and only when that person's gender is visible.  For simplicity, each card counts once for each time it occurs in a typical complete collection--each knight/prize is one card, each standard non-victory kingdom card is 10 cards, each standard victory kingdom card counts as 12 cards.

[DStu]

Not exactly your question, but you might want to read

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1312.0

edit:spoiler over url doesn't work...

[elahrairah13]

I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

[yudantaiteki]

I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, but winning a tournament to gain a princess is a pretty standard medieval trope; is it really that offensive?

In any case the Princess is clearly a very skilled merchant or haggler, so she's going beyond her gender stereotype.   (More seriously, the card art seems less stereotypical than usual; is it just me or does she have some kind of weapons?)

[greatexpectations]

you also win 'followers' for winning a tournament. that doesn't mean that those individuals are now your slaves or any form of property because you 'won' them. they are simply impressed by your abilities in winning the tournament. might be reading a little too much into it here mate.

[Robz888]

I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

More offensive than Expanding a Trusty Steed into a Village? That's animal cruelty, man.

[Kirian]

I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

More offensive than Expanding a Trusty Steed into a Village? That's animal cruelty, man.

Talk about beating a dead horse.

[Qvist]

Hey, if I only could remodel a Sea Hag into a Harem IRL...

[theschizm]

I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

And Princess Jasmine agrees with you!

[Schlippy]

I voted for 10-15% but the more I think about it the more I am sure the number is actually quite a bit lower. Sure, there are Witches and some Dames, but besides them there's not a lot of cards, and a bunch of them don't even count because there is more than 1 character on it.

[elahrairah13]

Actually not sarcastic. Overstated though, yes (my biggest personal problem with messageboards is that I post in a hurry and sometimes say things in a pretty goofy way).

But here's my explanation:

My daughter likes Dominion (although we haven't played in a few months, so much going on)
 
I hadn't really thought about the implications of the card name until she played her first Cornucopia game and we played with Tournament. She really wanted to win a prize. She was 5. She didn't manage her deck very well, so it took her awhile.

She also really sees herself in the media she consumes. She prefers band with female singers. She prefers movies with female leads (and have you noticed how most kids' movies are dominated by male leads? random example: it took pixar 13 films to make one where the main character is female).

Many little girls her age are into the princess thing (not sure if it's big internationally or not, but in the US disney does a TON of branding of the 'disney princess' line), and so people are always talking about girls being princesses, calling them 'Princess', etc.
And we were playing Dominion, and I just had that 'huh' moment when it clicked in that Princess was a prize, like a bag of gold, a crown...

Yeah, I know it's a standard medieval storyline... but that doesn't mean I don't wince when I see it and generally aspire for media to have different storylines.
Dominion is generally pretty good about gender... females are depicted on cards (unlike Castle Panic for example). I know Donald has posted that he wanted ambiguous gender description (players described as "they" instead of "he") but that the publisher changed it.

Witch is one of her favorite cards to play with, even though she hates being cursed. I'm pretty sure it's because she wants to buy a powerful female card.

[lespeutere]

I voted for 10-15% but the more I think about it the more I am sure the number is actually quite a bit lower. Sure, there are Witches and some Dames, but besides them there's not a lot of cards, and a bunch of them don't even count because there is more than 1 character on it.

I understood 'single character' in a way that harem does not count (even if there was only a single woman on it), but witch does count (even if there were several witches on the card), so for me it depends on the card's name. A card named "witches" would not count then. Did I misinterprete anything here?

[Jack Rudd]

I voted for 10-15% but the more I think about it the more I am sure the number is actually quite a bit lower. Sure, there are Witches and some Dames, but besides them there's not a lot of cards, and a bunch of them don't even count because there is more than 1 character on it.

I understood 'single character' in a way that harem does not count (even if there was only a single woman on it), but witch does count (even if there were several witches on the card), so for me it depends on the card's name. A card named "witches" would not count then. Did I misinterprete anything here?

I think by "Witches" he meant members of the set {Witch, Young Witch, Sea Hag}, each of which has one woman pictured on it.

[Robz888]

Actually not sarcastic. Overstated though, yes (my biggest personal problem with messageboards is that I post in a hurry and sometimes say things in a pretty goofy way).

But here's my explanation:

My daughter likes Dominion (although we haven't played in a few months, so much going on)
 
I hadn't really thought about the implications of the card name until she played her first Cornucopia game and we played with Tournament. She really wanted to win a prize. She was 5. She didn't manage her deck very well, so it took her awhile.

She also really sees herself in the media she consumes. She prefers band with female singers. She prefers movies with female leads (and have you noticed how most kids' movies are dominated by male leads? random example: it took pixar 13 films to make one where the main character is female).

Many little girls her age are into the princess thing (not sure if it's big internationally or not, but in the US disney does a TON of branding of the 'disney princess' line), and so people are always talking about girls being princesses, calling them 'Princess', etc.
And we were playing Dominion, and I just had that 'huh' moment when it clicked in that Princess was a prize, like a bag of gold, a crown...

Yeah, I know it's a standard medieval storyline... but that doesn't mean I don't wince when I see it and generally aspire for media to have different storylines.
Dominion is generally pretty good about gender... females are depicted on cards (unlike Castle Panic for example). I know Donald has posted that he wanted ambiguous gender description (players described as "they" instead of "he") but that the publisher changed it.

Witch is one of her favorite cards to play with, even though she hates being cursed. I'm pretty sure it's because she wants to buy a powerful female card.

Eh... I don't really agree that that's the message. I mean, if you are interpreting it literally that Princess is a prize to be won from a Tournament, well, would it be any better if she was available to be bought from the supply?

The objectification is happening because the cards are literally objects, not because there is some deliberate theme of owning other people.

[Kuildeous]

I actually have been thinking of redoing the 'Princess' card. The idea that a woman is a prize to be won is one of my least favorite things about Dominion.

It's really not that big of a deal. I mean, she's in another castle.

[itchiko]

Actually not sarcastic. Overstated though, yes (my biggest personal problem with messageboards is that I post in a hurry and sometimes say things in a pretty goofy way).

But here's my explanation:

My daughter likes Dominion (although we haven't played in a few months, so much going on)
 
I hadn't really thought about the implications of the card name until she played her first Cornucopia game and we played with Tournament. She really wanted to win a prize. She was 5. She didn't manage her deck very well, so it took her awhile.

She also really sees herself in the media she consumes. She prefers band with female singers. She prefers movies with female leads (and have you noticed how most kids' movies are dominated by male leads? random example: it took pixar 13 films to make one where the main character is female).

Many little girls her age are into the princess thing (not sure if it's big internationally or not, but in the US disney does a TON of branding of the 'disney princess' line), and so people are always talking about girls being princesses, calling them 'Princess', etc.
And we were playing Dominion, and I just had that 'huh' moment when it clicked in that Princess was a prize, like a bag of gold, a crown...

Yeah, I know it's a standard medieval storyline... but that doesn't mean I don't wince when I see it and generally aspire for media to have different storylines.
Dominion is generally pretty good about gender... females are depicted on cards (unlike Castle Panic for example). I know Donald has posted that he wanted ambiguous gender description (players described as "they" instead of "he") but that the publisher changed it.

Witch is one of her favorite cards to play with, even though she hates being cursed. I'm pretty sure it's because she wants to buy a powerful female card.

I will play the Devil's advocate here a little but i think the problem may not be Dominion related.
The idea of offering the hand of the princess to the winner of a Tournament is a pretty common representation of the image of the courteous chivalry. It is also a clear reminder of the gender roles that are linked to it.

The problem you have here is more related to the fact that society is still conveying that symbol of Princesses to our children to this days.
The simple fact that your daughter identify herself as a princess is already a potential alteration of her personality construction in a more passive role (cf/ fairy tales, video games,...).
I know that Disney (and others Nintendo for example face the same issue) has tried really hard to change that representation in the last decades, trying to give them more active roles. I am thinking of "Brave" and "Tangled" for example, but there is other examples.

My 2 cents would be: don't avoid the subject and use that occasion to illustrate the history of Women's liberation. I am pretty sure you can at least explain it in simple enough concept that a five years old can understand.

But of course that's your daughter so your the one making the call here. Educate her the way you think is best. ^^

[Awaclus]

elahrairah13: If people are violently getting killed in movies, do you dislike those movies or do you just tell your daughter not to watch them until she's a little bit older?

[ftl]

Why not both?

[WanderingWinder]

Why not both?

Why not Zoidberg?!

[eHalcyon]

Eh... I don't really agree that that's the message. I mean, if you are interpreting it literally that Princess is a prize to be won from a Tournament, well, would it be any better if she was available to be bought from the supply?

The objectification is happening because the cards are literally objects, not because there is some deliberate theme of owning other people.

It's different in that, as a card from the supply, the metaphor is more that you have these people (Witches, Stewards, Margraves, etc.) within your dominion.  That the Princess is won from a Tournament hits on the medieval trope that, yes, is somewhat objectifying of women.  I am OK with it because it is thematic and historical.  If playing with a child, it does present a good opportunity to talk about gender roles and such.

[WanderingWinder]

Eh... I don't really agree that that's the message. I mean, if you are interpreting it literally that Princess is a prize to be won from a Tournament, well, would it be any better if she was available to be bought from the supply?

The objectification is happening because the cards are literally objects, not because there is some deliberate theme of owning other people.

It's different in that, as a card from the supply, the metaphor is more that you have these people (Witches, Stewards, Margraves, etc.) within your dominion.  That the Princess is won from a Tournament hits on the medieval trope that, yes, is somewhat objectifying of women.  I am OK with it because it is thematic and historical.  If playing with a child, it does present a good opportunity to talk about gender roles and such.

If you want to look at it this way, you can look at winning a tournament leading to winning the princess's heart - of course, this is also somewhat problematic, but probably more thematic in any respect.
I think it goes without saying that if we switch princess to prince and females to males, it's still quite bad.

[Robz888]

Maybe the Princess, noting that the player who won the Tournament was already the master of at least one Province, and a stack of other commendable resources, made the shrewd decision to join him and his superior engine of economic production?

[Robz888]

Then again, she has to be pretty cross about likely getting picked third, after the Tournament winner had prioritized a shiny new horse and a horde of glum followers.

If the Tournament winner is from the Cities, he even chooses a stupid piece of jewelry before he picks her!

[eHalcyon]

Then again, she has to be pretty cross about likely getting picked third, after the Tournament winner had prioritized a shiny new horse and a horde of glum followers.

If the Tournament winner is from the Cities, he even chooses a stupid piece of jewelry before he picks her!

Depends on how big the Cities are, I think.

[sudgy]

Then again, she has to be pretty cross about likely getting picked third, after the Tournament winner had prioritized a shiny new horse and a horde of glum followers.

If the Tournament winner is from the Cities, he even chooses a stupid piece of jewelry before he picks her!

Oh, that reminds me, one game I saw that the Tournament and Cities were in the supply so I made it my goal to play the diadem and the princess after a bajillion cities...  I only pulled it off once, and it ended the game.

[shMerker]

Also what about renaming it? Maybe something that relates to the "enabling trade" theme of the mechanically similar Bridge and Highway like...I'm struggling to find a good word here. Charter maybe?

[Just a Rube]

Also what about renaming it? Maybe something that relates to the "enabling trade" theme of the mechanically similar Bridge and Highway like...I'm struggling to find a good word here. Charter maybe?

It needs to be something that could conceivably be won at a tournament though.
Clearly the answer is "Sponsorship Deal"

[SCSN]

How many women do you think are on dominion cards?

Depends on the board.

[AJD]

So, at one point I played a game of "feminist Dominion" using only cards with women on them; what I had at the time was base, Alchemy, Seaside, Prosperity, and Cornucopia, and in those five sets there were just enough cards depicting women to make a kingdom. The frequency of women on cards has increased over time, though; base just has Witch, but fully a quarter of Cornucopia kingdom cards have a woman as the principal figure.

Feminist Dominion was actually a pretty fun kingdom, by the way:

Explorer, Fairgrounds, Farming Village, Forge, Fortune Teller, Peddler, Scrying Pool, Sea Hag, Witch, Young Witch (bane: Herbalist)

Young Witch / Silver opening, I guess. I seem to recall I got a lucky $7 hand and Forged my way into a loose Scrying Pool engine, using Herbalist to pick up Peddlers... it's probably not that hard to get to a point where double-Fairgrounds buys are better than Colony, though I don't remember if I actually pulled that off.

[Axxle]

Hey, if I only could remodel a Sea Hag into a Harem IRL...

If you spent two estates worth of resources into doing it, maybe it's possible?

[greatexpectations]

the first card out of guilds appears to have a woman on it. a step up in that it helps that ratio, or a step back because of a hint at traditional gender roles. you decide!

[qmech]

Has anyone actually counted this up to Dark Ages?  Calibration games are more fun if you get to check your answer.

[juffowup]

With Guilds cards coming out it seems to be time to check our answers...

Here's my count:  (Many are subjective, this is just my take.)  These are divided by 10, so victory cards count as 1.2 cards, prizes, knights and rats count weirdly.

Set:
[male lead]/[female lead]/[non-gendered]/[no clear human subject or multiples]



Base:
3/1/6/15.2
[Smithy, woodcutter, militia should be grouped as "male" but don't have a 'lead' character.]
Witch is actually almost neutral... no traditionally female indicators are present.  I'm not sure what's on the face there, but it looks lacy so I went with female.

Intrigue:
8.4/0/3/16.4
I'm marking Nobles as 'male' based on clothing, but I don't know enough about clothing to defend this claim.  Masquerade I'm leaving as ungendered... there's maybe a hint of stubble to argue otherwise with.  Either of those could vary; I feel okay with ruling one apiece.  Harem should be female, but again doesn't have a 'lead' according to the rules of the OP.

Seaside:
4/2/5/15.2
Is navigator definitely male?  I went with neutral.
Smugglers is all male but with no lead.  Bazaar has two male leads.

Alchemy:
3/1/3/5.2
Here, I'm calling scrying pool female, although it could probably go as neutral.

Prosperity:
3/2/0/20
Goons is all-male with no lead.

Cornucopia
1/4.4/2/6.3
I don't know why, but the woman in the foreground of Followers looks to me like the "subject" of the work, as does the man on the right in Horse Traders.  Either could've gone in the no-lead category.

Hinterlands
8/2/0/26.6
Weirdly, the name is the only thing that indicates that the Duchess is the subject of the work.  The (male?) baby seems to be more emphasized in the image.  But the name is Duchess, so I'll mark that as female.

Dark Ages:
16.5/1.5/4/22.2
I'm calling minstrel neutral.  Her or his arm is weird, right?  I called Armory male. 

According to the rules of the original post, my rulings bring this to 13.9 female to 36.9 male, so 27.4% female.  My personal vote was 20-25% so not too bad.  If we include the cards that have a primary gender (but no clear lead) it comes to 14.9 female to 42.9 male, which would put it at 25.8% female.

I was curious about the interplay between two staggering factors.  On the one hand, the assumption of male inclusion as "normal" and female inclusion as "not-normal" makes us notice female presence more, and rate it more highly in our memory.  I read a disturbing study about teachers who were asked to approximate what percentage of the discussion in class was occupied by the (half) female students, and teachers overwhelmingly thought the females were dominating conversations even when they were contributing equally.  (This might be more about perception of female silence rather than female presence.  Still, I was nauseated when I recorded a few classes I taught and gave myself this test.)

On the other hand, this is fighting against the tendency too look at an ungendered image (spy and thief come to mind) and assume it is male, because you know. 

The biggest surprise to me was finding that Dark Ages was such a sausage fest.  Maybe it's all the Dames, but I remembered it having more women than there were.  And yeah, Cornucopia is the only one with more women than men.  Like AJD, I thought the presence of women had increased over time, but no, this isn't particularly the case.  It's been pretty consistent the whole way with Cornucopia and Dark Ages the only outliers.