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Author Topic: "Fixing" cards that you don't like  (Read 18484 times)

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Nic

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 05:31:08 pm »
+2

I was actually thinking about this yesterday; I like the idea of making it grab curses, but it feels like it has a niche as half of a combo; just that it's not worth the price otherwise. I was considering a house rule the next time they came up, which could be put on the card:

Scout                                             ACTION - $0*

+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed
Victory cards into your hand and the rest back in any order.
---------------------------------------
This card costs $2 more for each dual-type victory card in
the Kingdom, but not more than $4.


Would free scouts be OP if you were just using them to clean up your next hand and peek at your next cards? If so, $2/3/4 would work just as good as $0/2/4.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:35:40 pm by Nic »
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Nic

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2013, 09:46:06 pm »
0

I haven't played with Black Market, but I'm curious if the wonky rules are necessary for something. I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but I couldn't find any threads on it.

Black Market             ACTION - $3
+$2
+1 Buy
Reveal the top 3 cards of the Black Market deck.
You may buy at most one of them during your
Buy Phase
. At the start of Clean-up, put the unbought
cards on the bottom of the Black Market deck in any order.

(Before the game, make a Black Market deck out of
one copy of each Kingdom card not in the supply.)


It doesn't combo with Tactician anymore, and you have an actual +Buy rather than a virtual buy, but is it substantially different otherwise?
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liopoil

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2013, 09:49:11 pm »
+3

you can use that to buy two non-black market cards. (e.i., in the supply). This makes it strictly better than woodcutter.
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eHalcyon

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2013, 01:40:32 am »
+1

you can use that to buy two non-black market cards. (e.i., in the supply). This makes it strictly better than woodcutter.

But it is written that you can only buy "at most one of them".

I think it would get confusing if multiple BMs were played.  Let's say that you play TR-BM.  You reveal three cards, then you reveal another three cards.  What happens in the Buy phase?  Are you still restricted to buying just 1/6?  If you can buy 2/6, are you restricted to only buying one from each set of 3?  When you return cards to the bottom, do you have to do it in the correct order (that is, one set and then the next)?

It would make tracking difficult, and IRL it could end up requiring too much table space depending on how many BMs you manage to play in a single turn.
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Davio

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2013, 04:24:15 am »
+1

Black Market is a promo anyway even though it's considered canon. We get to thank Isotropic for that. :)
So in my view it doesn't need "fixing" as you can decide how to set up the BM deck to your own liking.

What does need fixing is, in my view, Scrying Pool.
+1 Action
Reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until revealing one that isn't an Action.
Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.

So I just removed the "opponent-Spy" part as I think it's mighty strong without it and it makes it even more cumbersome to play. Usually you can play a couple of them in a row and it would be better if you're not hindering opponents more than necessary.
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liopoil

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2013, 06:56:22 am »
0

I believe the "at most one" is reffering to cards in the black market deck. it would need to be at most one for both, which is easily remedied.
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eHalcyon

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2013, 03:07:36 pm »
0

I believe the "at most one" is reffering to cards in the black market deck. it would need to be at most one for both, which is easily remedied.

Oops, I misread your statement.  I thought you were saying you could buy multiple BM cards, not non-BM cards!  Nic's post already covered that though, since he mentioned that you would have a real +Buy instead of a virtual one.
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KingZog3

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2013, 06:40:17 pm »
0

The only fix I've seen here that's really needed are the Adventurer and Goons ones. Throne Room needs no fixing, especially not +$. Black Market could use fixing maybe, but I see it more as a card for a fun/wacky game, not a competitive game.

What does need fixing is, in my view, Scrying Pool.
+1 Action
Reveal the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until revealing one that isn't an Action.
Put all of your revealed cards into your hand.
I agree with this, but it's not a fix, more of a convenience. The Spy effect is weak, a only slows the game down. No one buys it for the attack, and would essentially never change a game with it taken out without weakening the card.
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Nic

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2013, 06:16:34 pm »
0

you can use that to buy two non-black market cards. (e.i., in the supply). This makes it strictly better than woodcutter.


I think it would get confusing if multiple BMs were played.  Let's say that you play TR-BM.  You reveal three cards, then you reveal another three cards.  What happens in the Buy phase?  Are you still restricted to buying just 1/6?  If you can buy 2/6, are you restricted to only buying one from each set of 3?  When you return cards to the bottom, do you have to do it in the correct order (that is, one set and then the next)?

It would make tracking difficult, and IRL it could end up requiring too much table space depending on how many BMs you manage to play in a single turn.

Okay, both of those are good points. Given the wording, I had figured it would work just like you said; lay down the cards in two rows of three, buy at most one card from each row, and return the leftovers in any order. But I see your point that it's not substantially simpler than just resolving the buy during your action phase.

I'm still curious as to whether a $0 Scout is balanced, though.
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soulnet

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2013, 06:49:05 pm »
+2

I'm still curious as to whether a $0 Scout is balanced, though.

I think having $0 cost piles makes three piling on megaturns too easy, especially with KC and a power +Buy card like Goons or Wharf or Bridge. I would rather just not use the card.
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gman314

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2013, 07:01:07 pm »
0

I'm still curious as to whether a $0 Scout is balanced, though.

I think having $0 cost piles makes three piling on megaturns too easy, especially with KC and a power +Buy card like Goons or Wharf or Bridge. I would rather just not use the card.

Well, with Bridge as your power + Buy, you were probably going to end up with some $0 piles anyways. :D
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soulnet

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2013, 08:09:50 pm »
0

Well, with Bridge as your power + Buy, you were probably going to end up with some $0 piles anyways. :D

Yes, that's true. Let's go with Wharf and Goons then.
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Schlippy

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2013, 11:36:21 am »
0

I think Transmute for $4 would be an awesome card.
How about leaving it at the $0/P cost and adding the line "In games using this, when you gain a Potion, you may gain a Transmute."?
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Asper

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2013, 06:10:14 pm »
0

I'm still curious as to whether a $0 Scout is balanced, though.

I think having $0 cost piles makes three piling on megaturns too easy, especially with KC and a power +Buy card like Goons or Wharf or Bridge. I would rather just not use the card.

How about:
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed
Victory cards into your hand and the rest back in any order.
---------------------------------------
Setup: If possible, add an additional kingdom card with the Victory type to the supply.

Edit 2: It's still not good... But at least it gets a chance to be a bit better.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 08:10:32 pm by Asper »
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2013, 06:52:09 pm »
+1

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2013, 09:36:18 am »
+1

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.
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eHalcyon

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2013, 12:50:18 pm »
0

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.

Is that a joke?  It would very much not be strictly worse...
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GendoIkari

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2013, 12:56:10 pm »
+1

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.

Is that a joke?  It would very much not be strictly worse...

Someone on F.DS is talking about Scout... and you have to ask if it's a joke?  ;)
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eHalcyon

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2013, 01:02:12 pm »
0

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.

Is that a joke?  It would very much not be strictly worse...

Someone on F.DS is talking about Scout... and you have to ask if it's a joke?  ;)

But it's talking about modified Scout!  Modified Scout is not Scout.  ::)

(Also, "strictly inferior/superior" are abused terms on f.ds.)
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Asper

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2013, 01:10:11 pm »
0

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.

Is that a joke?  It would very much not be strictly worse...

Someone on F.DS is talking about Scout... and you have to ask if it's a joke?  ;)

But it's talking about modified Scout!  Modified Scout is not Scout.  ::)

(Also, "strictly inferior/superior" are abused terms on f.ds.)

Strictly or not, it's worse than Great Hall on many occasions.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2013, 01:11:09 pm »
+3

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.

Is that a joke?  It would very much not be strictly worse...

He didn't say "Action/Victory"
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eHalcyon

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2013, 01:13:53 pm »
+1

I know other people have suggested it already, but I think my favorite fix to Scout is to make it a Victory card worth 1VP.

Well, it's strictly worse than Estate, but at least it's an improvement.

Is that a joke?  It would very much not be strictly worse...

He didn't say "Action/Victory"

Oh snap.
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Julle

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2013, 02:52:45 am »
+1

Here's my "fix" for Scout:

Scout

Action 4$
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Victory cards into your hand.
If none of the revealed cards were victory cards, put one of them into your hand.
Put the rest back in any order

So it's always at least a cantrip.
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GendoIkari

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2013, 09:32:14 am »
0

Here's my "fix" for Scout:

Scout

Action 4$
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Victory cards into your hand.
If none of the revealed cards were victory cards, put one of them into your hand.
Put the rest back in any order

So it's always at least a cantrip.

That's a VERY powerful card, actually....
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Mr Anderson

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Re: "Fixing" cards that you don't like
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2013, 10:46:10 am »
+1

In my opinion, Chancellor would be more powerful if he/she/it would be non-terminal, so:

Chancellor: 3$
+1 Action
+1 Buy


You may immediately put your drawpile into your discard pile.

Maybe this one would be better, though:
Chancellor: 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may...

So you do not waste a card in your hand to get to 5$, and Chancellor does not conflict with the other terminals you want to play more often because Chancellor is no longer a terminal.
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