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[Awaclus]

Minion
$4 Action - Attack
+1 Action
+$1
Each player discards his hand and draws 4 cards.

I hate getting stuck with a 4-card hand that I don't like against Minion players while they're still playing their Minions. This should fix the "problem": at least now I can hope for a better 4-card hand, though it's now significantly weaker (it resembles Peddler) so I made it a $4. Another possible solution:

Minion
$4 Action - Attack
+1 Action
Choose one: +$2; or each player with 5 or more cards in his hand discards it and draws 4 cards and each other player may do the same.


Both cards are also interesting because they're Attacks even though they do the Attack part thing to all players.

[eHalcyon]

Minion
$4 Action - Attack
+1 Action
+$1
Each player discards his hand and draws 4 cards.

I hate getting stuck with a 4-card hand that I don't like against Minion players while they're still playing their Minions. This should fix the "problem": at least now I can hope for a better 4-card hand, though it's now significantly weaker (it resembles Peddler) so I made it a $4. Another possible solution:

Minion
$4 Action - Attack
+1 Action
Choose one: +$2; or each player with 5 or more cards in his hand discards it and draws 4 cards and each other player may do the same.


Both cards are also interesting because they're Attacks even though they do the Attack part thing to all players.

That first one doesn't work.  Sometimes you get a crappy 4 card hand and hope for a second Minion to give you a better one... but sometimes you will have a perfectly good 4 card hand and a second Minion wipes it out.  Not to mention, a chain of Minions would slow the game down immensely because everyone will be reshuffling over and over again.

[Awaclus]

That first one doesn't work.  Sometimes you get a crappy 4 card hand and hope for a second Minion to give you a better one... but sometimes you will have a perfectly good 4 card hand and a second Minion wipes it out.  Not to mention, a chain of Minions would slow the game down immensely because everyone will be reshuffling over and over again.

It works just fine, wiping out good cards too is intentional. Slowing the game down is a problem IRL though, but not online.

[LastFootnote]

In my opinion, Chancellor would be more powerful if he/she/it would be non-terminal, so:

Chancellor: 3$
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may immediately put your drawpile into your discard pile.

Maybe this one would be better, though:
Chancellor: 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may...

So you do not waste a card in your hand to get to 5$, and Chancellor does not conflict with the other terminals you want to play more often because Chancellor is no longer a terminal.

Making Chancellor non-terminal has a logistics problem. It makes you shuffle A LOT more.

[KingZog3]

In my opinion, Chancellor would be more powerful if he/she/it would be non-terminal, so:

Chancellor: 3$
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may immediately put your drawpile into your discard pile.

Maybe this one would be better, though:
Chancellor: 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may...

So you do not waste a card in your hand to get to 5$, and Chancellor does not conflict with the other terminals you want to play more often because Chancellor is no longer a terminal.

Making Chancellor non-terminal has a logistics problem. It makes you shuffle A LOT more.

I don't think that should be a reason to not change a card. I don't really think it needs changing. Sure it's weak, but there are still times I buy it.

[LastFootnote]

Making Chancellor non-terminal has a logistics problem. It makes you shuffle A LOT more.

I don't think that should be a reason to not change a card.

That's because you've never played an IRL game against someone who plays a string of cantrip-Chancellors and shuffles his deck 7 times in a row. Dominion is primarily a physical card game and these things matter.

I don't really think it needs changing. Sure it's weak, but there are still times I buy it.

Chancellor and Woodcutter are two very similar Base Set cards that are renowned for being underpowered. I wonder if they could be combined into one good card.

Chancellor
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy. +$2. You may immediately put your deck into your discard pile.

I'm guessing that's still fairly priced at $3, though I could be way off base.

[Tables]

Making Chancellor non-terminal has a logistics problem. It makes you shuffle A LOT more.

I don't think that should be a reason to not change a card.

That's because you've never played an IRL game against someone who plays a string of cantrip-Chancellors and shuffles his deck 7 times in a row. Dominion is primarily a physical card game and these things matter.

I don't really think it needs changing. Sure it's weak, but there are still times I buy it.

Chancellor and Woodcutter are two very similar Base Set cards that are renowned for being underpowered. I wonder if they could be combined into one good card.

Chancellor
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Buy. +$2. You may immediately put your deck into your discard pile.

I'm guessing that's still fairly priced at $3, though I could be way off base.

I expect it is. The two parts don't synergise in an obvious way (although I could see it being possible), and honestly what you pay for is a terminal silver + small benefit, this just has two small benefits.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's a very odd idea, but I think that it would be interesting if Chancellor worked as an attack.

Chancellor
Action/Attack - $3

+$2

Each play either puts his deck into his discard pile or doesn't, your choice.


Might lead to a lot of AP but could be fun.

[liopoil]

chancellor with +buy makes it combo with counting house better, which is cool.

[soulnet]

chancellor with +buy makes it combo with counting house better, which is cool.

Not really if its terminal, because you cannot use CH and the +Buy on the same turn anyway. Maybe its easier to get the extra Copper and something else as well, but no big difference, at least for Province games.

[LastFootnote]

The two parts don't synergise in an obvious way (although I could see it being possible), and honestly what you pay for is a terminal silver + small benefit, this just has two small benefits.

I think the two parts synergize in that you mostly want to use the deck flipping while you're building your deck up, and the extra buy allows you to split an early $8 or $9 into a couple of good cards that you immediately get to shuffle into your deck.

But still, it may be perfectly acceptable at $3.

[Mr Anderson]

Yes, one of the reasons why I decided to make Chancellor non-terminal was to strengthen Counting House, therefore it also got +1 Buy. But you often do not buy Chancellor because it is terminal and likely collides with your Witches, for example, so why not make it non-terminal. I understand your fear that you need to shuffle your deck a lot, but in many cases you can do that in your opponent's turns and it does not take five minutes to shuffle your deck. Additionally, with a chapel trimmed deck, you shuffle your deck every turn as well, and nobody complained.

I agree that even a +Buy on the terminal Chancellor would increase its power significantly.

[LastFootnote]

Yes, one of the reasons why I decided to make Chancellor non-terminal was to strengthen Counting House, therefore it also got +1 Buy. But you often do not buy Chancellor because it is terminal and likely collides with your Witches, for example, so why not make it non-terminal. I understand your fear that you need to shuffle your deck a lot, but in many cases you can do that in your opponent's turns and it does not take five minutes to shuffle your deck. Additionally, with a chapel trimmed deck, you shuffle your deck every turn as well, and nobody complained.

I don't think you understand. I'm not talking about shuffling between turns. Non-terminal Chancellor would dramatically increase the amount of mid-turn shuffling.

For example, you suggested a cantrip Chancellor for $4. I play a CantripChancellor, draw a card, get +1 Action and +1 Buy, and discard my deck. Then I play another one. I have to immediately reshuffle in order to draw a card, after which I get another Buy and Action and discard my deck. Then I play another one and have to reshuffle again. See what I'm getting at?

A version without +1 Card wouldn't be as bad in this respect, but it would still cause an immediate reshuffle whenever you drew cards afterward. Not only does that slow things down, but it completely ruins the benefit of deck-flipping. Let's use Witch as an example, since you brought it up. I play a non-terminal Chancellor and discard my deck. Then I play a Witch. I immediately reshuffle because I have to draw 2 cards for the Witch. Now my discard is empty and my deck is full, which means that whatever card(s) I buy this turn (and my Witch) are going to take a very long time to be reshuffled into my deck. That's the exact opposite of what Chancellor's ability is for! The whole point of Chancellor is to get the card(s) you bought this turn (and to a lesser extent, recent turns) into your deck immediately!

Trusty Steed is the only current example of a card that can be non-terminal and flip your deck. But there's only ever one Trusty Steed in a game, and when was the last time you chose [+2 Actions/Gain 4 Silvers]? Usually if I'm gaining the Silvers, I choose +$2 or +2 cards to go along with it, but maybe that's just me.

EDIT: On a related note, I don't recommend deck-flipping abilities if your opponents are playing Witches. In general you want to avoid getting those Curses into your draw pile faster.

[Mr Anderson]

Ah, I did not think about that, you are right.
The only time that card would be alright are Counting House slogs, I guess.
Thanks for the clarification.

[Mr Anderson]

Bearing in mind your post, a wording for a fixed non-terminal chancellor could be:

Chancellor: 4$
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
______________________
When you discard this card from play, you may put your draw pile into your discard pile.

That would solve the problem of mid-turn shuffles, would enable that you can play your good terminals more often, but it would no longer combo with Counting House

Or, more interesting:

Chancellor: 3$ (4$)
+2 Actions
(+1 Buy)
______________________
When you discard this card from play, you may put your draw pile into your discard pile.

That version could be useless in engines that draw your hole deck, though, and it does not add anything to your buying power, so you do not want to open with it.

[Awaclus]

That would solve the problem of mid-turn shuffles, would enable that you can play your good terminals more often, but it would no longer combo with Counting House

It would, with 5x Scheme.

[Mr Anderson]

That would solve the problem of mid-turn shuffles, would enable that you can play your good terminals more often, but it would no longer combo with Counting House

It would, with 5x Scheme.

Sure. Thank you.

[NoMoreFun]

Counting House:
Action - $6
+1 Buy
Look through your discard pile, reveal any number of Coppers from it, then put them into your hand.
---
When you gain this, put it anywhere in your deck.

EDIT: Made it $6 so you can't open with it.

[dominator 123]

What does need fixing is, in my view, Scrying Pool.
+1 Action
Reveal Look at the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it back.
Then reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one that is not an Action.
Put all of your revealed cards into your hand

Fixed that for you.

Spy and oracle get you to reveal the top card of your own deck so as not to make it wordy. But if it is only a self-spy, like Duchess, then you don't need to reveal, just look at.

BTW, I think Adventurer and Thief should be conbined.

Adventurous Thief $5
Action-Attack

Each other player reveals cards from his deck until he reveals 2 treasure cards. He trashes one of them that you choose and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed treasures.