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[Schneau]

- Never buy all 10 Villages before buying any other Kingdom cards.

[pst]

-Open Potion if all cards have Potion in their cost.

Without fan cards there is only one Kingdom with 10 Potion cost cards, so it's a very specific rule.
I guess you'd start with Potion/Silver there, to get Familiar for a start.

If you allow some fan cards in the mix I think it's very possible that you'd start with Silver/Silver instead.
No reason to get Potion for University that can't gain any card, Possession that you won't afford for a long time anyway, Golem, Scrying Pool and Vinyeards when you don't really have any useful actions anyway, etc., so if the rest of the cards are as unexciting in this context, will it be straight money?

[popsofctown]

-Open Potion if all cards have Potion in their cost.

Without fan cards there is only one Kingdom with 10 Potion cost cards, so it's a very specific rule.
I guess you'd start with Potion/Silver there, to get Familiar for a start.

If you allow some fan cards in the mix I think it's very possible that you'd start with Silver/Silver instead.
No reason to get Potion for University that can't gain any card, Possession that you won't afford for a long time anyway, Golem, Scrying Pool and Vinyeards when you don't really have any useful actions anyway, etc., so if the rest of the cards are as unexciting in this context, will it be straight money?

We have to restrict the discussion to official cards.  There could be ten fan cards that all cost 10P and say "+1$", theoretically.

[Kirian]

You want some kind of quirky Menagerie thing so you can get up to 6$ for the Fairgrounds. 

Sure, but if you're going to make FG your strategy, you need at least one Silver in your deck, and you'd much rather have that Silver earlier than later.  Opening Duchy/Estate decreases your chances of getting to cash consistently.

That said, this does bring up an interesting thought:  Consider a 5/2 opening with Shelters.  If there are no $2 actions on the board, Estate is the correct purchase, yes?

[DStu]

- Never buy all 10 Villages before buying any other Kingdom cards.

edge case: Border Village [or second buy->gain].  Edit: except of course Village is vanilla Village. But then it depends on the board...

[GendoIkari]

Another one: relax and have fun, it's still a game after all.

Depends on the tournament prize.

(Not the card Tournament, like actually playing in a Dominion tournament with a good prize).

[Kirian]

Another one: relax and have fun, it's still a game after all.

Depends on the tournament prize.

(Not the card Tournament, like actually playing in a Dominion tournament with a good prize).

[Drab Emordnilap]

That said, this does bring up an interesting thought:  Consider a 5/2 opening with Shelters.  If there are no $2 actions on the board, Estate is the correct purchase, yes?

Purchasing nothing lets you trash your Hovel when you buy a Province later, instead of expanding your deck then.

[Schneau]

That said, this does bring up an interesting thought:  Consider a 5/2 opening with Shelters.  If there are no $2 actions on the board, Estate is the correct purchase, yes?

Purchasing nothing lets you trash your Hovel when you buy a Province later, instead of expanding your deck then.

We had this discussion back when DA came out, and I think the consensus was: It depends on the board.

[AdamH]

I read the thread title and I thought it would include good generic advice about Dominion without getting bogged down in discussion of edge cases.

...what was I thinking?!

[gman314]

If you have €5 in your opening hand, buy a card that costs at least €3.
Anyone ever opened FG/FG on 5/2? Maybe as second player?

FG/Chapel.

[WanderingWinder]

So, in order to get a 2/0 opening in a 5-player game, you have to have 5 players, with you being last, Noble Brigand and Cutpurse on the board, your first opponent open Noble Brigand, the next three open Cutpurse, you start with a $2 hand, have all the cutpurses get drawn t2 and played, with you having drawn 2 estates as the next two cards. If we spot you the kingdom and that all of your opponents are playing this way, the chances of everyone drawing these hands is... 1 in 217,728. Pre-post edit: I suppose player 2 can buy noble brigand instead of cutpurse and this makes things much more likely; however I also didn't take into account the possibility that NB flips double estate for some of the opponents. Well, I'm too lazy to fix it now.
Regardless, you certainly want to buy something here anyway. Probably copper, though maybe a t1 estate. Anyway, this leads to the case where you want to open duchy/estate: You're last in a, I don't know, 20 player game. They're opening noble brigand and cutpurse everywhere. Piles are obviously going to run in about 3 seconds. You'll probably never really have much money - silver will get NBed away 20 times, and copper will get cutpursed down. There's no decent cheap virtual coin or draw, and cultist is on board, so you can run out the ruins fairly comfortably. The points here almost ensure you victory, as everyone else races to get $2 enough to get second. Also, they increase your chance of getting gifted copper by NB. Heck, this could maybe even turn into an argument for estate/estate, if you get 2/5 and cutpursed down off the 5 to a 2 or something.

I am otherwise not convinced for these openings, and especially not for curse/curse.

Oh, and for 2/2 opening from 5/2, apart from estate/estate as mentioned above, what about chapel/squire with like familiar or goons on board?

However, I think I may have thought of some others (edge case me braaaahhhh):
-Never open Duke
-Never willingly trash every card in your deck.
-Never spend $5 on a turn one feast
-Never open Village/Village (the specific card, not the type)

[Drab Emordnilap]

Oh, and for 2/2 opening from 5/2, apart from estate/estate as mentioned above, what about chapel/squire with like familiar or goons on board?

I've opened Squire/Chapel before. It might not have literally been a 5/2, though.

[SCSN]

-Never spend $5 on a turn one feast

What if you're first and have a 5/2 open, but there is no $5 that you want right now (e.g. because the only $5 card is Duchy), yet there are a plethora of $4 cards, the relative strengths of which highly depend on how your opponent decides to play (ala Rock-Paper-Scissors). Might it not then be good to get the Feast, hoping that your opponent reveals his plan so that you can get the dominating card rather than the dominated?

Now I have no idea whether such a kingdom actually exists, and whether the advantage you gain outweighs the disadvantage of a slower start, and whether silver is not always the better buy in such a situation (it probably is), but it is not a priori clear that it's completely impossible to occur, so this may depend on the board

[popsofctown]

Wouldn't it be better to say you want Feast to help you make a Rogue/Graverobber loop or something?

[SCSN]

Or what about this: kingdom is Mint/Feast/Gardens/Hamlet and no other cards of note.

You have a 5/2 opening and decide to go for Gardens (intending to empty the Gardens, Hamlets and Estates). You'd like to have a Mint (you're happy to copy a Copper for the cards and to maintain some economy in the face of greening, and the occasional free Silver makes it even better) but you hate to trash 5 Coppers, so you open Feast/Hamlet.

[Eevee]

Or what about this: kingdom is Mint/Feast/Gardens/Hamlet and no other cards of note.

You have a 5/2 opening and decide to go for Gardens (intending to empty the Gardens, Hamlets and Estates). You'd like to have a Mint (you're happy to copy a Copper for the cards and to maintain some economy in the face of greening, and the occasional free Silver makes it even better) but you hate to trash 5 Coppers, so you open Feast/Hamlet.

Ehhh.. I mean it's cute, but no way it's even remotely competitive.

[SCSN]

Is BM without support really faster?

[eHalcyon]

Is BM without support really faster?

Mint is not at all a good Gardens support. Better to spam Hamlet +buy to get extra copper.

[popsofctown]

Is BM without support really faster?

Mint is not at all a good Gardens support. Better to spam Hamlet +buy to get extra copper.

But that's a paradigm you've developed based on 90% of the time not being able to acquire a Mint without trashing.  Gainers that gain 5's are usually remodel variants which are their own problem for a Gardens deck.

I think I agree that the presence of Hamlet might cause outshinery issues, though.  Might be better to pick a different helper.  Cellar with some nice 3's and 4's maybe.

[Witherweaver]

-Never spend $5 on a turn one feast

What if you're first and have a 5/2 open, but there is no $5 that you want right now (e.g. because the only $5 card is Duchy), yet there are a plethora of $4 cards, the relative strengths of which highly depend on how your opponent decides to play (ala Rock-Paper-Scissors). Might it not then be good to get the Feast, hoping that your opponent reveals his plan so that you can get the dominating card rather than the dominated?

Now I have no idea whether such a kingdom actually exists, and whether the advantage you gain outweighs the disadvantage of a slower start, and whether silver is not always the better buy in such a situation (it probably is), but it is not a priori clear that it's completely impossible to occur, so this may depend on the board

I bet you could also build a nice Rube Goldberg machine with Market Square to pick up some golds.

[Witherweaver]

Or what about this: kingdom is Mint/Feast/Gardens/Hamlet and no other cards of note.

You have a 5/2 opening and decide to go for Gardens (intending to empty the Gardens, Hamlets and Estates). You'd like to have a Mint (you're happy to copy a Copper for the cards and to maintain some economy in the face of greening, and the occasional free Silver makes it even better) but you hate to trash 5 Coppers, so you open Feast/Hamlet.

Ehhh.. I mean it's cute, but no way it's even remotely competitive.

What if Mint was the only $5 card, there were no gardens and you were going to do some weird Coppersmith strategy?  Anyway that could actually be feasible? 

[eHalcyon]

Is BM without support really faster?

Mint is not at all a good Gardens support. Better to spam Hamlet +buy to get extra copper.

But that's a paradigm you've developed based on 90% of the time not being able to acquire a Mint without trashing.  Gainers that gain 5's are usually remodel variants which are their own problem for a Gardens deck.

I think I agree that the presence of Hamlet might cause outshinery issues, though.  Might be better to pick a different helper.  Cellar with some nice 3's and 4's maybe.

That's the point though.  If there was an easy way to get Mint without trashing, then maybe it would work.  But it's not going to be helpful enough to Feast->Mint for Gardens, especially if +Buy is available.  Maybe if there was no +Buy?  Mint is still probably not good enough as Gardens support, especially given you'd need two reshuffles before you could gain multiple cards a turn... and then you would only be able to do that once per turn, unless you Feasted multiple Mints or had Throne Room or something.  But there are too many hoops here.

Or what about this: kingdom is Mint/Feast/Gardens/Hamlet and no other cards of note.

You have a 5/2 opening and decide to go for Gardens (intending to empty the Gardens, Hamlets and Estates). You'd like to have a Mint (you're happy to copy a Copper for the cards and to maintain some economy in the face of greening, and the occasional free Silver makes it even better) but you hate to trash 5 Coppers, so you open Feast/Hamlet.

Ehhh.. I mean it's cute, but no way it's even remotely competitive.

What if Mint was the only $5 card, there were no gardens and you were going to do some weird Coppersmith strategy?  Anyway that could actually be feasible?

Unlikely.

The thing is, Feast->Mint is jumping through hoops to gain Mint without trashing your Treasure.  I could see that as possible late in the game, when you want to Mint Plats and you've already rid yourself of Coppers/weak treasures.  But as an opener?

OK, weird Coppersmith strategy... well, why do you want Mint at all?  To get more Copper?  That won't work.  For Coppersmith to be viable, you would need:

- a way to draw lots of Copper in hand
- probably a way to play multiple Coppersmiths
- +Buy to make use of all your money

The last point is the killer here.  If you have +Buy, then you can easily gain more Copper without going to the trouble of Feasting a Mint (which just has huge opportunity cost).  If you don't have +Buy, then Coppersmith is unlikely to be worth it.

[Kirian]

-- Don't open Curse/Curse.

Any exceptions? I can't think of any.

There's always an exception.  Sometimes, that exception is insanity wolf.

[ashersky]

Is BM without support really faster?

Mint is not at all a good Gardens support. Better to spam Hamlet +buy to get extra copper.

But that's a paradigm you've developed based on 90% of the time not being able to acquire a Mint without trashing.  Gainers that gain 5's are usually remodel variants which are their own problem for a Gardens deck.

I think I agree that the presence of Hamlet might cause outshinery issues, though.  Might be better to pick a different helper.  Cellar with some nice 3's and 4's maybe.

That's the point though.  If there was an easy way to get Mint without trashing, then maybe it would work.  But it's not going to be helpful enough to Feast->Mint for Gardens, especially if +Buy is available.  Maybe if there was no +Buy?  Mint is still probably not good enough as Gardens support, especially given you'd need two reshuffles before you could gain multiple cards a turn... and then you would only be able to do that once per turn, unless you Feasted multiple Mints or had Throne Room or something.  But there are too many hoops here.

Or what about this: kingdom is Mint/Feast/Gardens/Hamlet and no other cards of note.

You have a 5/2 opening and decide to go for Gardens (intending to empty the Gardens, Hamlets and Estates). You'd like to have a Mint (you're happy to copy a Copper for the cards and to maintain some economy in the face of greening, and the occasional free Silver makes it even better) but you hate to trash 5 Coppers, so you open Feast/Hamlet.

Ehhh.. I mean it's cute, but no way it's even remotely competitive.

What if Mint was the only $5 card, there were no gardens and you were going to do some weird Coppersmith strategy?  Anyway that could actually be feasible?

Unlikely.

The thing is, Feast->Mint is jumping through hoops to gain Mint without trashing your Treasure.  I could see that as possible late in the game, when you want to Mint Plats and you've already rid yourself of Coppers/weak treasures.  But as an opener?

OK, weird Coppersmith strategy... well, why do you want Mint at all?  To get more Copper?  That won't work.  For Coppersmith to be viable, you would need:

- a way to draw lots of Copper in hand
- probably a way to play multiple Coppersmiths
- +Buy to make use of all your money

The last point is the killer here.  If you have +Buy, then you can easily gain more Copper without going to the trouble of Feasting a Mint (which just has huge opportunity cost).  If you don't have +Buy, then Coppersmith is unlikely to be worth it.

Thrones Feast to get two, then keep throning Mint for more coppers/silvers?  If you can line then up, that gets you more cards than +buy.