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Author Topic: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?  (Read 104267 times)

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Zaphod

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #200 on: October 17, 2011, 07:26:43 am »
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Ill-Gotten Gains seems like a steep price to pay just to give a Curse, unless there's a trash-for-benefit card available, but I haven't played with it yet so I can't be sure.  Gardeners are licking their chops hoping to see this card and Gardens in the same set.  Actually, Gardens would combo with many of the Hinterlands cards we've seen so far.

Develop seems like a weak opener, but it might be a good finisher.  Trashing a Bank to gain a Province and a Harem near the end of a game wouldn't suck.

Hmm, just throwing this out there...you Develop your IGG, gaining a Traders and a Border Village, putting them both on top of your deck...when you gain Border Village, you also gain another IGG, giving your opponent another Curse...next turn you can use Traders to trash Border Village for six Silvers, to keep the Curses from taking over your deck.  I imagine strategies like that will come out of the woodwork as we play with these cards.  Should be fun.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #201 on: October 17, 2011, 07:31:02 am »
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Hmm, just throwing this out there...you Develop your IGG, gaining a Traders and a Border Village, putting them both on top of your deck...when you gain Border Village, you also gain another IGG, giving your opponent another Curse...next turn you can use Traders to trash Border Village for six Silvers, to keep the Curses from taking over your deck.  I imagine strategies like that will come out of the woodwork as we play with these cards.  Should be fun.

Check out the Game Reports subforum ;)
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play2draw

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #202 on: October 17, 2011, 10:02:51 am »
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Ill-Gotten Gains/Counting House/Coppersmith anyone?
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DStu

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #203 on: October 17, 2011, 10:40:31 am »
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Ill-Gotten Gains/Counting House/Coppersmith anyone?

Was also thinking of it, but basically every +buy is a "free Copper", and they all tend not to activate Counting House or Coppersmith easily. Of course, that's now an additional +1Coin, but I'm skeptical...
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Fangz

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #204 on: October 17, 2011, 10:43:28 am »
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Ill-Gotten Gains/Counting House/Coppersmith anyone?

I think it'd work better as a combo with apothecary and bank.
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Geronimoo

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #205 on: October 17, 2011, 10:44:23 am »
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Ill-Gotten Gains/Gardens = sick.... very very sick

I did a few simulations and it even beats some of the most powerful engines (whereas Workshop/Gardens doesn't)
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jonts26

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #206 on: October 17, 2011, 10:54:02 am »
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At first I thought develop might work well in a gardens deck, but after some play testing I'm not so sure anymore. In theory, you mass develops and then develop them into gardens and estates. But the engine really seems to stall out once develops stop colliding. And you have no economy to finish off the gardens pile quickly enough.
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Fangz

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #207 on: October 17, 2011, 10:57:56 am »
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I think the real value of develop is the fact that your new cards are top decked, instead of sent to the discard pile. This means developing for victory cards is possibly poor. Instead, it works awesomely with tournament - if you know you haven't drawn a province so your province is likely to come up, a develop can ensure you have one in your next turn. I suspect it also works really well with treasure map. And in a possession game, developing a $5 gives a gold and a potion, making for a very likely possession in the next hand.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 11:11:38 am by Fangz »
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Kuildeous

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #208 on: October 17, 2011, 11:13:45 am »
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Actually, Gardens would combo with many of the Hinterlands cards we've seen so far.

I seem to recall that Donald said that Gardens was originally going to be in a later expansion but got moved to the base set because it went over really well.

Could this be the expansion that gave birth to Gardens?
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #209 on: October 17, 2011, 11:19:22 am »
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Actually, Gardens would combo with many of the Hinterlands cards we've seen so far.

I seem to recall that Donald said that Gardens was originally going to be in a later expansion but got moved to the base set because it went over really well.

Could this be the expansion that gave birth to Gardens?


Gardens and Vineyard swapped places at one point. I always thought "Gardens was in a later expansion" referred to that.
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Karrow

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #210 on: October 17, 2011, 11:29:53 am »
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From what I see so far, playing a straight Hinterlands kingdom is going to be crazy fun. 

There will be so many creative and complex interactions between the cards that some crazy scenarios will play out.  But just as with Dominion before Hinterlands, actually pulling the crazy hinterlands combos together for a win against an opponent who simply plays big money + 1 of the best kingdom card may prove difficult for many players.

Things are getting strange enough though that I worry a little bit that another KC/Masq type lock-down will be found. 

And for Mandarin:  Play treasure, use a Horn of Plenty to gain the Mandarin or gain Border Village to a Mandarin (Quarry can help a lot), buy victory card, repeat every turn.  Yea, it's too many cards.  But I think people will find several other ways to pull something similar to this off.
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Copernicus

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #211 on: October 17, 2011, 12:31:10 pm »
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In comparison to other $5 attacks, how powerful is Ill-Gotten Gains?  I assume it's worse than a Witch, but is it better than a Jester?  Do I want to spam it or should I stop after getting 2-4?

It just seems like such an odd card to me -- sure they're getting a curse, but I'm ending up with a copper or a silver that requires me to grab a copper.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #212 on: October 17, 2011, 12:38:44 pm »
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In comparison to other $5 attacks, how powerful is Ill-Gotten Gains?  I assume it's worse than a Witch, but is it better than a Jester?  Do I want to spam it or should I stop after getting 2-4?

It just seems like such an odd card to me -- sure they're getting a curse, but I'm ending up with a copper or a silver that requires me to grab a copper.

It's a completely different card and I don't really think you can compare it to "other" $5 attack cards (other in quotes because IGG is not an attack card). Situations where I would consider IGG include games with trash-for-benefit, other Copper strategies, Gardens etc.

I played a game earlier in which I went for IGG and then used them to buy Mints later on to get rid of them. I was planning to use the Mints to gain more IGGs later on but I didn't get the chance because Sea Hag was also out and curses ran out (it would have been best to ignore IGG completely as Sea Hag was out but it was a case of oooh shiny). Minting them away is generally easier than Coppers as if you fall just short, you can take an extra Copper to get up to $5 and then get rid of that too.

I wouldn't put IGG among the greatest $5 cards in existence but it's definitely usable in a number of situations and you have to keep an eye on what your opponent is doing when it's around.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #213 on: October 17, 2011, 01:02:21 pm »
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It would seem the German Rulebook has leaked containing images of all of the new cards and card FAQs. All we need now is for a German-speaker to translate it:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/712339/spoiler-german-rules-online
http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Spiele/Dominion/D_hinterland_regel_klein.pdf
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Willvon

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #214 on: October 17, 2011, 01:09:14 pm »
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Okay, so I suppose for me to get a more balanced view of this card, I'll have to play some games with it where it's not the clearly dominant strategy. It will be interesting how it goes without something like Harem to boost it. But, in my only experience with it, it far outclassed "the most powerful Dominion card relative to its cost" (or would have if either of us had bought it).

My wife and I played 3 games over the weekend with our cards by having two of the cards stand in for Crossroads and Nomad Camp.  The deck also included Watchtower, Menagerie, Bishop, Farming Village, Mountebank, Jester, Counting House, and Hoard.  Because I wanted to trash Estates, Duchies and even some Provinces with Bishop, Crossroads too often appeared with no green cards in my hand.  Three actions are great, but you need action cards to play with them.  So if I couldn't use it to draw with, and I didn't have another drawing card in hand, the extra actions got wasted.  I am sure that it is much more powerful if there are hybrid victory cards in the deck, but not so much with this deck I played.
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guided

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #215 on: October 17, 2011, 01:31:38 pm »
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I played my first Crossroads/Nobles game today (plus Market and Coppersmith), and it was just filthily good. Fun! ;D

This expansion is shaping up to create a massive, seismic shift in Dominion strategy. A total shake-up of everything we know, way beyond what even Prosperity did. I'm in awe.
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Davio

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #216 on: October 17, 2011, 01:39:21 pm »
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It would seem the German Rulebook has leaked containing images of all of the new cards and card FAQs. All we need now is for a German-speaker to translate it:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/712339/spoiler-german-rules-online
http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Spiele/Dominion/D_hinterland_regel_klein.pdf
Even though I speak a little German (being Dutch means being able to speak 4 languages), I won't do this, out of respect for Donald.

But of course I'm too curious to not have a look myself. ;D

Edit: Took a quick look and decided: I'll just wait for the regular preview updates, this makes it a lot more manageable for me with my limited time and the excitement is better. :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 01:52:20 pm by Davio »
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Epoch

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #217 on: October 17, 2011, 02:01:56 pm »
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Ill Gotten Gains is interesting, but seems limited.  $5 for a one-off curser that hurts your deck (gives you a Copper) and with a special ability that most decks don't want (gain more Copper) is... something that will be awesome with a few strategies, and otherwise not-very-good.

But Develop is fascinating.  It's a trasher that adds cards to your deck (potentially).  Might actually be a trasher that's good with Gardens (trash a Workshop or Woodcutter, gain a Gardens and an Estate?).  Probably not, really, but interesting, considering that like every other card in Hinterlands combos well with Gardens.

Develop + Border Village: Develop a $5 card, gain a Border Village, regain your $5 card, also gain a $4 card.  Put your new Border Village on the top of your deck with your $4 card (Smithy?  Envoy?).  Seems nice.

Develop is going to be VERY different on the various boards, with a "hole" in the price structure changing it dramatically (if there are no $4 cards, for example).  I suspect that it's super-powerful if there are $3 and $5 cards that combo well together, so that you can Develop $4 cards into that 3/5 combo and play that combo the next turn.  So, like, if there are Village/Council Rooms on the board, for example.
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Julle

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #218 on: October 17, 2011, 02:07:15 pm »
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Develop is going to be VERY different on the various boards, with a "hole" in the price structure changing it dramatically (if there are no $4 cards, for example).  I suspect that it's super-powerful if there are $3 and $5 cards that combo well together, so that you can Develop $4 cards into that 3/5 combo and play that combo the next turn.  So, like, if there are Village/Council Rooms on the board, for example.

Also good in Colony games if you manage to crab quick province. You can turn it into a platinum and something 7$ ( if there's any). So Baron/Coppersmith and Develop sounds like an interesting opening with the right circumstances.
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Epoch

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #219 on: October 17, 2011, 02:13:12 pm »
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Also good in Colony games if you manage to crab quick province. You can turn it into a platinum and something 7$ ( if there's any). So Baron/Coppersmith and Develop sounds like an interesting opening with the right circumstances.

The existence of King's Court seems, to me, like a very big deal with Develop.  Are there any other $7's?  At any rate, the ability to both Develop Golds or other $6's into King's Court, and to Develop King's Courts into Provinces, and, potentially, Develop Provinces (or Peddlers) into King's Courts and Platinums, are probably game-changing.

If there's no KC (or other $7), then I'm a little dubious that you really want to mess around too much with Developing things that cost $6+.


EDIT:  I probably should have been more explicit: if KC and Develop are on the board, then the ability to Develop a Gold into KC/Any $5 Action and be guaranteed to play KC and that $5 Action on the next turn seems game-changing to me.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 02:16:25 pm by Epoch »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #220 on: October 17, 2011, 02:20:24 pm »
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Ill Gotten Gains is interesting, but seems limited.  $5 for a one-off curser that hurts your deck (gives you a Copper) and with a special ability that most decks don't want (gain more Copper) is... something that will be awesome with a few strategies, and otherwise not-very-good.

But Develop is fascinating.  It's a trasher that adds cards to your deck (potentially).  Might actually be a trasher that's good with Gardens (trash a Workshop or Woodcutter, gain a Gardens and an Estate?).  Probably not, really, but interesting, considering that like every other card in Hinterlands combos well with Gardens.

Develop + Border Village: Develop a $5 card, gain a Border Village, regain your $5 card, also gain a $4 card.  Put your new Border Village on the top of your deck with your $4 card (Smithy?  Envoy?).  Seems nice.

Develop is going to be VERY different on the various boards, with a "hole" in the price structure changing it dramatically (if there are no $4 cards, for example).  I suspect that it's super-powerful if there are $3 and $5 cards that combo well together, so that you can Develop $4 cards into that 3/5 combo and play that combo the next turn.  So, like, if there are Village/Council Rooms on the board, for example.

The 4 hole seems critical, and the 7 hole very nice - it's like a hoard almost there, gain province and gold, both topdecked. But if you're swapping that 5 (Ill Gotten Gains is great there) for a 4 and border village, even better than smithy or envoy is a trash-for-benefit. So remodel and salvager and bishop and trader, eat your hearts out.

Brando Commando

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #221 on: October 17, 2011, 02:24:40 pm »
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Not having played it, it's hard to know, but I'm thinking that IGG will only be of interest in a limited number of situations: no better cursers and/or good ways to exploit extra copper. Outside of that, it's hard to see the use, especially at $5.
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Davio

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #222 on: October 17, 2011, 02:32:48 pm »
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Just a quick note: I would like to ask any posters NOT to spoil any cards from the leaked German rules before they have been posted by Donald X. himself as official previews on these BGG forums: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/1066342/dominion-hinterlands/news.

Some of us like the way they are released now.
Having 2 released at a time lets us discuss them in an organized manner.
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Epoch

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #223 on: October 17, 2011, 02:40:57 pm »
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Postulate:  Hinterlands cards make Trash-for-benefit cards better.

Hinterlands seems to include a plethora of cards that allow you to increase deck-size overall faster than the usual "buy 1 card per turn" paradigm (cards that we know of now that can do that:  Border Village, Trader, Develop, Ill Gotten Gains, and Nomad Camp gives you +buy).  Trader and Develop in particular are going to result in a lot of mediocre cards (Silvers, $3s, and $2s), that will be good fuel for, say, Apprentices or other TfB.  But, hey, while you might ordinarily flinch at feeding a $6 card into a TfB, why not a $6 Village that you got by overpaying for a $5 Action that you REALLY wanted?  Okay, the Coppers from IGG are unlikely to result in wildly useful TfB, but maybe if you're playing a Hinterlands heavy deck, you traded them for Silvers.

Develop being both TfB and deck-size increasing is, if my postulate is correct, slightly insane.
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cayvie

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Re: So the new Hinterlands cards are coming out... thoughts?
« Reply #224 on: October 17, 2011, 04:10:37 pm »
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Postulate:  Hinterlands cards make Trash-for-benefit cards better.

Hinterlands seems to include a plethora of cards that allow you to increase deck-size overall faster than the usual "buy 1 card per turn" paradigm (cards that we know of now that can do that:  Border Village, Trader, Develop, Ill Gotten Gains, and Nomad Camp gives you +buy).  Trader and Develop in particular are going to result in a lot of mediocre cards (Silvers, $3s, and $2s), that will be good fuel for, say, Apprentices or other TfB.  But, hey, while you might ordinarily flinch at feeding a $6 card into a TfB, why not a $6 Village that you got by overpaying for a $5 Action that you REALLY wanted?  Okay, the Coppers from IGG are unlikely to result in wildly useful TfB, but maybe if you're playing a Hinterlands heavy deck, you traded them for Silvers.

Develop being both TfB and deck-size increasing is, if my postulate is correct, slightly insane.

Pretty sure you mean hypothesis here /nitpick
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