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[Kahryl]

Fool's Gold + Council Room deck... wouldn't it be a good strategy?
And if you can add Border Village... (and gain more Fool's Gold and Council Rooms...)

Funny you say this, my first and only game so far with Fool's Gold I did Fool's Gold/Council Room.  It worked quite well, though it didn't feel crazy good. The other guy didn't have a plan beyond big money and still got 3 of the provinces.

I think the key to Fool's Gold is something with +card and +buy. So Market, Council Room, Worker's Village yes.  Woodcutter, Laboratory, Salvager no.  Undecided on Herbalist.  That would be interesting..


Side note: I have serious thematic problems with this card.  Why would people NOT be tricked the first time and then tricked every time after?  Maybe rename it "propaganda"

[rrenaud]

Think you guys are getting carried away with Fool's Gold?  The card has 'Fools' in the name, after all.  If that's not Game Designer speak for "be damned careful", I don't know what is.

[ChaosRed]

Yeah seems to me Fool's Gold is compelling when you pick it up cheap on a second buy. I'll solo some games with it, see if I like it.

[Taco Lobster]

I like the cards, but the names are frustrating me.  Nomad Camp sounds like it should be a village.  Traders is a boring name and, as mentioned already, is easly confused with the other cards with trade in their name.   

[ChaosRed]

Trader is a great, fun card, that can really change how you manage a board. It isn't always the right choice, but at times it can feed your deck. It's probably my favorite of the 4 released so far, just because its so interesting mechanically. Border Village is also awesome to use.

Fool's Gold is my least favorite so far, but I'm going to try and find ways to make it useful.

[WanderingWinder]

Seems to me that Fool's Gold is quite usually just very very weak. On the right niche of boards it can be good, but it needs heavy trashing and isn't even all THAT fast with it, or some big draw engine, in which case there are usually better payloads. I'm also pretty me on Nomad Camp - woodcutter isn't that great a 3, topdecking shouldn't make it all that strong as a 4. Of course it couldn't be a 3, because then the openings would be REALLY messed up, but there you go.

[ackack]

On the right niche of boards it can be good, but it needs heavy trashing and isn't even all THAT fast with it

It is weak most of the time, but what 1 action money strategies beat uncontested Chapel/FG? There are certainly engine decks that will be possible that will do better, but I think Chapel/FG will often be the strongest thing on a board.

[Axe Knight]

Having played with the cards we've had so far, I think this is the most eccentric expansion yet.  It is definitely a thinking person's expansion that rewards the most experienced players more than any other set. 

Now, I'm just waiting on the inevitiable "When you buy this, each other player gains a Curse" card.

[ChaosRed]

Chapel + Fool's Gold: I can get 5 Provinces by turn 15, (4 Provinces at 14) and all 8 Provinces by Turn 21 20, which comes in slightly better than an Envoy/Traders deck, but not by a whole lot.

[DG]

Instead of chapel, try remake + fools gold + warehouse + any supporting card. There should be plenty of good results from that.

[rinkworks]

Having played with the cards we've had so far, I think this is the most eccentric expansion yet.  It is definitely a thinking person's expansion that rewards the most experienced players more than any other set.

I agree with you.  On the other hand, I wonder if the cards in these previews are purposely picked to be the ones that are the most game-warping.  After all, if there's a vanilla card in the set, it's unlikely to make as intriguing a preview.  But so far we've seen just four cards, which have included a new type combo, two new reaction cues, and the first card ever to muck with the opening turns.  Maybe they're all wild like that, but probably not.

I suspect, however, that even if most of the remaining "when you gain" cards aren't as exotic, they will still amount to just what you say:  an eccentric, game-changing expansion that requires some extra skill to play well.  All in all, I'm super impressed and excited about what I've seen so far.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Now that you mention Mint, rinkworks, opening Fool's Gold/Mine could be great.

But this sounds all too good - a 2$-card that synergizes great with itself and good with many other cards (especially trashers). Would be interesting to know why it was priced so low. Maybe some kind of chapel-like argument?
Or to see how wrong we, especially I, are, by thinking how this and that would work..

I think the reason it's $2 is that it would be terrible at $3. If you can't get multiples of them per turn or get them easily with extra buys, there is no way to get enough of them fast enough. Buying 1 at a time is just weighing down your deck with what are essentially coppers. At $2, the ability to get a bunch at once in some circumstances makes it an interesting card.

Regarding Nomad, I don't think it really breaks the whole opening thing that much, since the way I see it is that most of the time you won't want to buy it. It is, after all, a woodcutter. Sure it CAN get you to $5 before the first reshuffle, but only does so 40% of the time! More often, you will just find yourself with $4 and 2 buys on your next turn, so either you get another $3 or $4 card (in which case it's just like opening woodcutter/something) or you get 2 $2 cards. Probably for some of the elite $5 cards it's worth the risk given there aren't any particularly good opening options and/or you wouldn't mind getting 2 $2 cards (hamlets, lighthouses). It's also probably decent in general if you're trying to rush down some $2 piles, either because hamlet is the only village or because you're going vineyards or gardens or something. I think the more common use of it is going to be in the late game. You can build up an engine without (enough) +buy, and then add it in and start using it right away.

[ChaosRed]

Instead of chapel, try remake + fools gold + warehouse + any supporting card. There should be plenty of good results from that.

I made this work more effectively than Chapel at times, but other times I couldn't. It had more variance to it, than Chapel. Key issue seems to be ensuring you have two cards you want to trash, which Warehouse didn't always ensure, while Chapel is a little more graceful. Although its terminal it can trash from one to four. You want a draw of 3 Fool's Gold consistently in a Province game. Warehouse+Fool's Gold+Remake stays strong late in the game, but Chapel can stay fairly consistent, especially on that grab for four provinces.

I'll play with it more, but Warehouse will stump you, it can provide choices of a +5 buy, or trashing one card you want trashed and maybe one you don't. It works sometimes beautifully and other times provided choices with Remake that slowed you down. I'll work on it some more.

Steward works fairly well as well, slower than Chapel obviously, but can give you a little more dexterity later in the game.

Fool's Gold is a fun card, now that I've played with more, I like it. I'll try Mine+Fool's Gold, see how it goes.

[Geronimoo]

I just got crushed in a game where my opponent opened Mint/Fool's Gold...

[ChaosRed]

So far, my favorite combo of cards for Fool's Gold is Wharf/Chapel/Fool's Gold.

The additional cards and buys let you snap up a lot of Fool's Gold pretty quickly, Chapel trims out the cak then lies dead. I reached 4 Provinces in turn 11, and had all 8 Provinces purchased by turn 15.

[Davio]

Think you guys are getting carried away with Fool's Gold?  The card has 'Fools' in the name, after all.  If that's not Game Designer speak for "be damned careful", I don't know what is.

Well, it requires some planning ahead, sure. You can't just pick some up at a convenient time and think "meh, I'll see if I can use it". You have to work hard to push the average value of FG above Silver to near Gold status.

I would very much love to see a report of Councilroom data telling us the average value of FGs that were in player's hands.

Having played with the cards we've had so far, I think this is the most eccentric expansion yet.  It is definitely a thinking person's expansion that rewards the most experienced players more than any other set. 

Now, I'm just waiting on the inevitiable "When you buy this, each other player gains a Curse" card.

That's the only way to do it, an "on gain" would be absolutely awful.

[chwhite]

Obviously there are many more cards to come, and none of us have played this set much, but all in all I get the distinct sense that the power level of these cards has been dialed down from the past few expansions, back to more of where we were at with base/Intrigue.  Fool's Gold in particular is looking like a trap card most of the time, and Trader changes the game a bunch but in the absence of specific triggers I tend to take a really dim view of pile-o-Silver strategies (of course Hinterlands may end up having a bunch of those triggers).  Border Village is, of course, conventionally strong, but really all the $6 cards are save Adventurer and the overrated Harem.  Nomad Camp is cute (though I don't get the name); need to play with it more to see if its opening potential is actually good or just annoyingly swingy.

BTW, I like how they phrased Border Village to prevent Bridge shenanigans.

[AJD]

In this game I found Fool's Gold makes a very good Remodel target for Copper.

[Karrow]

I have a feeling I'll be buying Nomad Camps at times.  I can think of a lot of games where I did not get a +buy early, mid game I didn't want to buy down to get the +buy,  then late game as I look at a $25 hand I realize that it's too late to pick up a +buy because I'll never get around to drawing it.  Top-decking changes that.

And for the fools gold, it sets up a few possibilities.  But it seems they need an all in strategy buying as many fools golds as possible.  There will be a few fast combos with it, but I don't see it in any 2-card combo that will beat the standard workshop/gardens.

[Davio]

I think you just have to be careful with Fool's Gold. It's not a one trick pony in itself, it needs support!
I find that you often either undershoot your target or overshoot it, with no middle ground.
Without any form of +Buys, that overshooting doesn't do you any good.

Here's a nice sample game: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/14/game-20111014-142236-a49b7aae.html

My opponent went full on FG and I just played a more conventional game based on some decent action cards. I wanted Goons to snag a few FGs from him. I did turn them into Gold near the end, because with my low density, it made a lot more sense. I didn't want a Ghost Ship which could have enabled him to line up his FGs better.

He had multiple turns in which he had $10+ due to his FGs, but still he could only buy 1 Province everytime.

If I tally up his FG's worths, he played 13 FG's for $1 and 11 FG's for $4 for an average worth of $2.375 per FG, which makes it closer to Silver than to its namesake.
That's somewhat in the range I expect it to be and with a more evenly balanced FG split and such games without much draw, this could be even lower.

[ChaosRed]

I lost a real head-to-head game with Fool's Gold. I was simply relying on it too much. We both reached for the card, both wound up with 4 and getting 3 out of 4 into your hand in a deck with no trashing (and not a lot of card draw), made Fool's Gold a real lag.

[biopower]

Trader is a great, fun card, that can really change how you manage a board. It isn't always the right choice, but at times it can feed your deck. It's probably my favorite of the 4 released so far, just because its so interesting mechanically. Border Village is also awesome to use.

Fool's Gold is my least favorite so far, but I'm going to try and find ways to make it useful.

I like the ways Trader can interact with your own Silver lining expansion. It certainly brings a new dynamic to a lot of your new cards.

[ChaosRed]

I like the ways Trader can interact with your own Silver lining expansion. It certainly brings a new dynamic to a lot of your new cards.

That's really nice of you to say! Yeah, I like how Silver is kind of a "default" card to gain on a lot of gainers. I think at times, Silver is an undervalued card. I sometimes realize one of the reasons I lose a match, is because I reached for another 4-point action card, when really what I needed was a Silver.

Traders is tricky though, it wants card draw, but it is also one of the best defenses against Witch attacks ever made.

[FarHorizon]

Quarry + Talisman is even more amusing when you add Border Village.

You play a Talisman, a Quarry, and 2 Coppers.
You buy a Border Village.
... You gain another Border Village.
... ... You gain a Laboratory.
... You gain a Laboratory.

The only downside is that quarry makes border village worth 4 & talisman/quarry costs remain 4 ... so you can't gain more talismans/quarries from border village.  This is a pretty minor drawback though, since those cards only cost $4.

[matt979]

Two quick thoughts about Fool's Gold:

1. Adventurer loves Fool's Gold.
2. Thematically I can only hope there's an attack card in Hinterlands that requires opponents to trash a Gold and gain a Fool's Gold.