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[xeiron]

I have made a count of all the votes cast during D1. RVS are excluded.

Cumulative Vote Count D1
key:
Player voted for(accumulated unique votes/accumulated votes) - Voting player1(vote nr.), Voting player2(vote nr.), etc

Ashersky (1/1) - mail-mi(7&10)
Eevee (8/10) - mail-mi(6), aHoppy(8 ), Ashersky(15), Mail-mi(16), EFHW(35), aHoppy(38), Theorel(39), Twistedarcher(42), Nkirbit(43), Chairs(45)
Xeiron (5/6) - Raerae(5), Shraeye(19), mail-mi(21), NKirbit(25), raerae(27), Theorel(29)
Raerae(2/2) - Ashersky(1), Xeiron(4)
Mail-mi(1/2) - Ashersky(13), Ashersky(17)
Twistedarcher(3/3) - Nkirbit(19), Chairs(22), Eevee(24)
Chairs(1/1) - raerae(12)
Shraeye(4/4) - TA(2), Chairs(3), EFHW(9), Theorel(18)
Ahoppy(4/5) - eevee(32), shraeye(36), raerae(37), Twistedarcher(40), Raerae(44)
EFHW(5/5) - Shraeye(11), Ashersky(26), mail-mi(33), eevee(34), nkirbit(41)
Spiritbears(2/2) - TwistedArcher(14&28), Nkirbit(20)
No-lynch(2/2) - Xeiron(28), EFHW(30)

[Twistedarcher]

Eevee's had TEN people vote for him this game??

[Twistedarcher]

Okay I should read fully then post. Eight people. But still.

[Eevee]

Oh my oh my. I don't see any reason to change my votes, raerae looks townier for slowing my wagon down a bit, because it's likely that at least one of the viable or semi-viable candidates is scum.

[raerae]

I just finished re-reading EFHW, and I really just have an exceptionally hard time reading her.  The oddest thing for me is saying that she has a null-read on Ahoppy #1194, but her last post about Ahoppy was in #651 where she describes him as scummy.  Why the change?

Why only call her out on AHoppy and not shraeye too?  She did a complete 180 on him but actually made a decision on AHoppy rather than leaving him at null.

Are you questioning my changing on shraeye - which I already answered -- or the fact that nkirbit didn't ask me about changing re: shraeye but did re: Ahoppy?  What does nkirbit's not asking about my shift on shraeye say to you about him?

I'm concerned that he was only concerned about your (as I see it) logical read change from null to scum on AHoppy and not concerned about you ultra read switch on shraeye.  (Your answer wasn't great by the way but not scummy so that was why I didn't keep pushing it.)  He called you on a reasonable switch and that was what I was questioning him on.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that 8 separate people have voted Eevee at some point today.

On the one hand, it could simply mean that he's simply town, and scum have jumped on his wagon, seeing it as the one that would be the easiest to push through.

On the other hand, it could mean he's scum, and scum members who were bussing / voting him earlier got off once they saw there was risk of Eevee being actually lynched. They wanted to have pressure on him, which looks great, as long as he wasn't lynched, but if there's pressure, they needed to get off so they didn't lose a teammate day 1.

If Eevee flips scum, I'd be most suspicious of Ashersky and mail-mi as partners.

[raerae]

I have made a count of all the votes cast during D1. RVS are excluded.

Cumulative Vote Count D1
key:
Player voted for(accumulated unique votes/accumulated votes) - Voting player1(vote nr.), Voting player2(vote nr.), etc

Ashersky (1/1) - mail-mi(7&10)
Eevee (8/10) - mail-mi(6), aHoppy(8 ), Ashersky(15), Mail-mi(16), EFHW(35), aHoppy(38), Theorel(39), Twistedarcher(42), Nkirbit(43), Chairs(45)
Xeiron (5/6) - Raerae(5), Shraeye(19), mail-mi(21), NKirbit(25), raerae(27), Theorel(29)
Raerae(2/2) - Ashersky(1), Xeiron(4)
Mail-mi(1/2) - Ashersky(13), Ashersky(17)
Twistedarcher(3/3) - Nkirbit(19), Chairs(22), Eevee(24)
Chairs(1/1) - raerae(12)
Shraeye(4/4) - TA(2), Chairs(3), EFHW(9), Theorel(18)
Ahoppy(4/5) - eevee(32), shraeye(36), raerae(37), Twistedarcher(40), Raerae(44)
EFHW(5/5) - Shraeye(11), Ashersky(26), mail-mi(33), eevee(34), nkirbit(41)
Spiritbears(2/2) - TwistedArcher(14&28), Nkirbit(20)
No-lynch(2/2) - Xeiron(28), EFHW(30)

What??  I don't understand your #s.  I haven't voted 44 times.

[Twistedarcher]

44th vote in the game, it's in chronological order.

[Twistedarcher]

Xeiron, your scum reads, please.

[xeiron]

I have made a count of all the votes cast during D1. RVS are excluded.

Cumulative Vote Count D1
key:
Player voted for(accumulated unique votes/accumulated votes) - Voting player1(vote nr.), Voting player2(vote nr.), etc

Ashersky (1/1) - mail-mi(7&10)
Eevee (8/10) - mail-mi(6), aHoppy(8 ), Ashersky(15), Mail-mi(16), EFHW(35), aHoppy(38), Theorel(39), Twistedarcher(42), Nkirbit(43), Chairs(45)
Xeiron (5/6) - Raerae(5), Shraeye(19), mail-mi(21), NKirbit(25), raerae(27), Theorel(29)
Raerae(2/2) - Ashersky(1), Xeiron(4)
Mail-mi(1/2) - Ashersky(13), Ashersky(17)
Twistedarcher(3/3) - Nkirbit(19), Chairs(22), Eevee(24)
Chairs(1/1) - raerae(12)
Shraeye(4/4) - TA(2), Chairs(3), EFHW(9), Theorel(18)
Ahoppy(4/5) - eevee(32), shraeye(36), raerae(37), Twistedarcher(40), Raerae(44)
EFHW(5/5) - Shraeye(11), Ashersky(26), mail-mi(33), eevee(34), nkirbit(41)
Spiritbears(2/2) - TwistedArcher(14&28), Nkirbit(20)
No-lynch(2/2) - Xeiron(28), EFHW(30)

What??  I don't understand your #s.  I haven't voted 44 times.

It means vote number 44 in this game is cast by you.
I started my numbering on Asherskys vote on you. Thats #1. The next vote cast by anyone is #2 and so on.

[xeiron]

Xeiron, your scum reads, please.

working on it.

[EFHW]

Now I want to explain my take on the after-vote period in which Eevee alternates between pushing the case and saying the case is weak.  I think these quotes show that while he wants me to be lynched, he has no conviction at all about my being scum (I think because he knows I’m not).  Again, sorry about the length.  I'm trying to respond to those players requesting more details on the case against Eevee.

Trying to facilitate the lynch: Here shraeye agrees with Eevee about Ahoppy and disagrees about me.  As he later did with Theorel, Eevee's response is to immediately express suspicion of shraeye.  He then says that shraeye agrees with him.  I don't know if it was intentional or not, but this glosses over the actual disagreement that was the bulk of shraeye's post.

@Eevee, I'd still be down for an AHoppy lynch; I still think a backgroundplayer is the best place to lynch today.  EFHW's reaction to xeiron's plan is exactly what townies need to be thinking now.  Instead of going "oh hey, a plan that somebody claims will work...but I don't understand it...gotta lynch them!" and then complaining when we blew our chances at some serious advantage, I think we should let this play out and see what xeiron can get for us.
nkirbit's reaction to xeiron's plan is by far the scummiest, increasing the fervor with which he's calling for xeiron's head.  EFHW's reaction reads completely townie to me.
Vote: AHoppy

I wouldn't be surprised if shraeye was scum btw. Somehow he feels too... friendly?
Maybe I'm just not used to him agreeing with me.   

Here he pushes his case by describing me as scrambling.  He seems convinced I am scum.  He’s also allying himself with Ashersky, like “we both know she’s scum, it’s obvious, so tone it down.” 

Ash, you are in hardcore tunnel mode though, and not looking at things objectively. It's clear EFHW is in super scramble mode already, that's just an indication of that.

Lack of conviction:  Here Eevee says he is voting me because there is no one else.  Then he right away mentions a couple other possible targets.

If there were another compelling case out there, I might be swayed to consider it.  But I've yet to see a strong (in the D1 sense of the word) case made on anyone.
Xeiron?  Nope.  Any of the other foregrounders?  Nada.  LALL?  Not compelling in the face of actual scum cases.  So really, what else is there?

This is pretty much how I feel about EFHW too. Well, I'd put Ahoppy and shraeye on top of the "my individual biggest suspects" list.

 
Around the same time he says Ash is being unfair in turning everything I do into evidence I am scum.  After I inquire 2 times, he says he was only referring to ashersky saying I twisted Eevee's words re: shraeye.

Wait, I don't understand what you're talking about.  Are you saying that EFHW is scum? Or that ashersky is tunnelling too far?  Those seem like opposite ideas.

I'm saying that even if EFHW is scum, ashersky is being way unfair to her, just spinning everything she does into evidence of her being scum. Even if she is scum, it's not like her choosing lighthouse as her avatar or her being worried of being todays lynch are indications of that.

If you think he is being unfair, why did you vote for me?

I always sound defensive when I'm defending myself.  But you jumped on a wagon you agree is unfair, and since then you have been spinning everything I say to sound scummy.  This is not your way as town.

I'm not saying the wagon is unfair!!
I'm saying [ashersky] reading you twisting my words earlier as evidence of you being scum is unfair.

[Twistedarcher]

EFHW, I have a huge, huge, huge problem with how you've misrepresented the following quote:

Ash, you are in hardcore tunnel mode though, and not looking at things objectively. It's clear EFHW is in super scramble mode already, that's just an indication of that.

Wait, I don't understand what you're talking about.  Are you saying that EFHW is scum? Or that ashersky is tunnelling too far?  Those seem like opposite ideas.

I'm saying that even if EFHW is scum, ashersky is being way unfair to her, just spinning everything she does into evidence of her being scum. Even if she is scum, it's not like her choosing lighthouse as her avatar or her being worried of being todays lynch are indications of that.

You used the initial Eevee quote as part of your evidence for "Trying to facilitate the lynch". Saying that Eevee sees you as scrambling, and therefore thinks you're scum.

Yet, for the second part of your argument, "Lack of conviction", you cut out the original quote! There's nowhere that has just those two parts of the quote -- there's a place with all three, but no part with just two.

You're picking and choosing to make your argument here, rather than looking at the quote as a whole. The fact that you used the same quote, all in one quote chain, and used it in two separate parts of your argument to explain how Eevee is doing two different things, is pretty egregious to me.

[Twistedarcher]

I remember asking Eevee this but don't remember the answer, if there was one -- is there any point where Eevee says that EFHW scrambling is a clear sign of her scuminess?

[EFHW]

EFHW, I have a huge, huge, huge problem with how you've misrepresented the following quote:

Ash, you are in hardcore tunnel mode though, and not looking at things objectively. It's clear EFHW is in super scramble mode already, that's just an indication of that.

Wait, I don't understand what you're talking about.  Are you saying that EFHW is scum? Or that ashersky is tunnelling too far?  Those seem like opposite ideas.

I'm saying that even if EFHW is scum, ashersky is being way unfair to her, just spinning everything she does into evidence of her being scum. Even if she is scum, it's not like her choosing lighthouse as her avatar or her being worried of being todays lynch are indications of that.

You used the initial Eevee quote as part of your evidence for "Trying to facilitate the lynch". Saying that Eevee sees you as scrambling, and therefore thinks you're scum.

Yet, for the second part of your argument, "Lack of conviction", you cut out the original quote! There's nowhere that has just those two parts of the quote -- there's a place with all three, but no part with just two.

You're picking and choosing to make your argument here, rather than looking at the quote as a whole. The fact that you used the same quote, all in one quote chain, and used it in two separate parts of your argument to explain how Eevee is doing two different things, is pretty egregious to me.

Actually, putting them together strengthens my point.  It shows advocating and lack of conviction one right after the other.  I separated them because I had put the two issues in two different sections.

[Twistedarcher]

Maybe...if you read Eevee's saying that you're scrambling as saying you're scummy. I think that's a stretch, unless he specifically linked the two. From context it's not entirely clear that he's coming out and saying "EFHW is scrambling, therefore she's scummy".

[Twistedarcher]

But really, what's so scummy about saying "This is my strongest read, but I'm not sold on it, but since it's my strongest read we should lynch the person?" Why is this a scum move and not a town move?

[EFHW]

I remember asking Eevee this but don't remember the answer, if there was one -- is there any point where Eevee says that EFHW scrambling is a clear sign of her scuminess?

Here are the references I can find.  To my mind, they reinforce my point.  ash takes "scramble" as a sign of scumminess, Eevee says maybe not but stays on my wagon.  No one actually demonstrates scrambling on my part.

...
I think Eevee's point, that EFHW is now scrambling, is valid.  His point that I am now tunneling, is also valid.

I don't know that she wouldn't go to scramble mode as scared town. It really sucks to let your team down by being the day 1 lynch either way.

[EFHW]

But really, what's so scummy about saying "This is my strongest read, but I'm not sold on it, but since it's my strongest read we should lynch the person?" Why is this a scum move and not a town move?

A fair question.  He has never said I am his strongest scum read.  He has not once expressed agreement with any element of ash's case that I could find. But, he has stayed on the wagon despite ample opportunity to shift his vote.  He has subtly continued to push it, with posts like the scramble one.  I think "scramble" is very much associated with scumminess in this group, and there was no reason to mention it in that way unless he wanted to make me look scummy.  He also accused both shraeye and Theorel of being scum immediately after they said I was towny.  He denied saying the wagon was unfair, despite having said ash was unfair to be twisting "everything" I do. 

These points are why I say he is pushing a lynch he doesn't feel genuine conviction about.

[EFHW]

Actually, putting them together strengthens my point.  It shows advocating and lack of conviction one right after the other.  I separated them because I had put the two issues in two different sections.

TA do you have a response to my response?

[Twistedarcher]

Sorry, it was #1391 if that's wasn't clear.

I think you make a good point about Eevee subtly pushing a wagon when you're not a huge scum read. I'd like to hear a response from Eevee, and while I think you're exaggerating a bit to make your point, I think the central point you have it a fairly sound one.

[EFHW]

Sorry, it was #1391 if that's wasn't clear.

Oh, ok.  I'm actually looking for an explicit retraction of the egregious editing accusation, if that's ok, because that's a pretty serious thing to accuse me of and I think I have demonstrated that it really isn't the case.

[EFHW]

Oh my oh my. I don't see any reason to change my votes, raerae looks townier for slowing my wagon down a bit, because it's likely that at least one of the viable or semi-viable candidates is scum.

Not defending himself. 

[EFHW]

Are we still going with the soft deadline of tomorrow evening I hope?

[xeiron]

My reads:

Town:
Xeiron, Chairs, Ashersky, Nkirbit, Ahoppy, eevee, raerae, Theorel.

These townreads makes up the backbones of my reads. They are all based on things that have been said and done, And all of them have very little to no chance of flipping scum.
I am a little conserened that with so many townreads already, scum might have slipped in here somehow. For now I will treat all of these as town and concentrate on the rest:

Scum: TwistedArcher, mail-mi, Shraeye,  EFHW

The remaining players. I have thought about possible scumteams and I think
{TwistedArcher, Shraeye, mail-mi} fits the best when reading the game.