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[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.13
EFHW (3) ashersky, mail-mi, Eevee
Eevee (5) EFHW, AHoppy, theorel, Twistedarcher, nkirbit
AHoppy (2) shraeye, raerae
No Lynch (1) xeiron

Not Voting: (1) chairs

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch; 6 to no-lynch

[Twistedarcher]

Chairs, you should really get your vote down.

[nkirbit]

Okay, I have a question.

When someone gets to L-1, are we going to allow them to claim, or lynch them before they have a chance to do so?

If we put Ahoppy to L-1 and he claims, I am going to come out and support his claim if it meets what I expect his claim to be, and lynch him if his claim does not meet what I expect his claim to be.  But I agree that claiming is bad, so would rather not put a player at L-1 that I think is likeliest to be backed off of, who I believe to be Ahoppy.

[raerae]

If you're never going to go through with his lynch then why even consider voting for him, kermit?  Just to appease a couple people who don't even constitute the masses right now?  Interesting...

[nkirbit]

I would go through with his lynch if his claim didn't match up with what I expected it to.  But I think it will, and that's why I'm not voting for him.

I'm considering it because I have three people telling me I should consider it.  I still think it's wrong, and that's why I'm not voting for Ahoppy, but I don't think it's wrong for me to consider it.

[ashersky]

Anyone notice raerae's visceral reactions against claiming?  A lot of don't you dare and policy votes...

Every time...except when X claimed.  No anger, no vote, nothing.  Odd.  If X is scum, so is raerae, I think.

[chairs]

Chairs, you should really get your vote down.

It's honestly been pretty hard for me to decide, but deadlines wait for no man, and I suppose I should pick one of the three viable lynches, so...

Vote: Eevee

[ashersky]

Chairs, you should really get your vote down.

It's honestly been pretty hard for me to decide, but deadlines wait for no man, and I suppose I should pick one of the three viable lynches, so...

Vote: Eevee

That's L-1.

Going on record that I think this is a mistake for D1 resulting from pressure to end the day.  I see this lynch as a direct action of theorel.

[nkirbit]

My general belief if to DO claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you do not have to, if you caught scum.

So we know that Xeiron hasn't yet caught scum, because he would have claimed it, since that's generally his belief, right?

But he is still not worried about sending a message to scum?  How does he know who scum is, if he hasn't caught them yet?

[xeiron]

My general belief if to DO claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you do not have to, if you caught scum.

So we know that Xeiron hasn't yet caught scum, because he would have claimed it, since that's generally his belief, right?

But he is still not worried about sending a message to scum?  How does he know who scum is, if he hasn't caught them yet?

If I had caught scum already I would either have claimed or pushed their lynch in any other way.

[nkirbit]

My general belief if to DO claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you do not have to, if you caught scum.

So we know that Xeiron hasn't yet caught scum, because he would have claimed it, since that's generally his belief, right?

But he is still not worried about sending a message to scum?  How does he know who scum is, if he hasn't caught them yet?

If I had caught scum already I would either have claimed or pushed their lynch in any other way.

So you're here!  Why haven't you said why myself, Shraeye, Ahoppy, or TA (I believe those were the four you listed) were scummy?

[raerae]

Anyone notice raerae's visceral reactions against claiming?  A lot of don't you dare and policy votes...

Every time...except when X claimed.  No anger, no vote, nothing.  Odd.  If X is scum, so is raerae, I think.

Because I was gone, Ash.  And my vote was already on him.  And it's the same damn thing he did in RMM7 (which I pointed out and he hasn't addressed yet).  By the time I got here it was too late to do a damn thing about it.  Besides, all this yelling that claiming is a bad idea hasn't stopped half this town from being fools and doing it anyway. 

[raerae]

Chairs, you should really get your vote down.

It's honestly been pretty hard for me to decide, but deadlines wait for no man, and I suppose I should pick one of the three viable lynches, so...

Vote: Eevee

What deadline?  Nobody has set one yet.  Why is Eevee the best choice?

[shraeye]

Chairs, you should really get your vote down.

It's honestly been pretty hard for me to decide, but deadlines wait for no man, and I suppose I should pick one of the three viable lynches, so...

Vote: Eevee

Why Eevee? I want to hear in your words the case on him.

[raerae]

This is a convenience lynch.  Half the people on this wagon are voting because they "don't like" the other options, not because they think Eevee is scum.  We still have plenty of time.  If you don't like the options then present a new one.

[chairs]

Chairs, you should really get your vote down.

It's honestly been pretty hard for me to decide, but deadlines wait for no man, and I suppose I should pick one of the three viable lynches, so...

Vote: Eevee

What deadline?  Nobody has set one yet.  Why is Eevee the best choice?

I thought we'd set (and missed) one soft deadline already?  I'll happily admit to being wrong, if that's the case.  As far as why Eevee is the best choice, I'll attempt to address that in roughly an hour, when I get home.

This is a convenience lynch.  Half the people on this wagon are voting because they "don't like" the other options, not because they think Eevee is scum.  We still have plenty of time.  If you don't like the options then present a new one.

If we still have plenty of time, then nobody minds if I unvote until I can get home and make (or break) my case in more detail, right?  I could've sworn we were butting up against time and that's why we were all choosing horrible lynch options (since no good option existed and we were out of time).

[shraeye]

I'm going to examine my views on Eevee starting with the points that TA pointed out.  Does anyone else have anything in particular they think is a good point on the possibility of Eevee being scum?

Nkirbit, you asked this question, and in between this and your vote on Eevee, accompanied by the quote shown below, nobody answered that question.  In the last few pages, I don't see anybody's case on Eevee, so this feels a lot like "wagon of least resistance" instead of "wagon that has best chance of hitting scum".

My question is, what did you discover that tipped you towards Eevee?  Anything more specific that this post below?

Reasons for voting Eevee:
1)  Does have a history of flipping reads in relatively short time periods.  Spiritbears and Mail-mi were the two biggest to stand out for me.
2)  I have a general feeling that Eevee is town, which is the same feeling I had in mean girls.

[nkirbit]

This is a convenience lynch.  Half the people on this wagon are voting because they "don't like" the other options, not because they think Eevee is scum.  We still have plenty of time.  If you don't like the options then present a new one.

I agree 100% with this.  But everyone knows who my alternative lynch is, and no one agrees with me, so I don't know what else to do.

[raerae]

Chairs & TA, you asked for this and NEVER commented on it.  Why is this not convincing enough for you? 

I'm kind of in the same boat as theorel - none of the wagons presented are particularly appealing.  However, I'm willing to take a bad lynch over no lynch, I suppose.  I'd like to see some (polite, calm) arguments for/against eevee and efhw cases to see if I can be swayed to either, but I'm leaning towards the relatively-quiet Ahoppy at the moment.

I think most of the case on Ahoppy is he's a lurker and not scum hunting, correct? That's how he played in Mean Girls. The stuff he did previously when I voted was certainly fishy, but it's true that he jumped on Eevee, and not EFHW, when EFHW had the most votes.

It's not just that he's being quiet and backgroundy.  I think that is a large strike against him.  But also, when you review his posts, he spent the early part of today talking about theory while there was plenty of scumhunting going on to talk about.  After many posts about items/no-lynch, AHoppy posts this:

I think TA has hit it on the nose. I think today we should work on more scum hunting and less on the items. I like the items, I think it's cool, but I also think they could serve as a distraction from the big goal:kill scum. And I think scum could use that to their advantage

saying we should focus more on scumhunting. 

His next 3 posts are all about items and theory, and the third finishes with this

However, I should remind people that we do need to get to scum hunting.

His next post (#284) is really the first that he tries to do anything in the way of scumhunting.  And all he does is call out lurkers; also misremembering who was fightign with Twisted at that point (it was me, but he said raerae).  He really isn't focused on any arguments, or any scumhunting at this point.  Finally he starts coming in with some reads about people starting from #554, but since then he's only had 15 posts.

The second point against AHoppy, is that in addition to being relatively absent, he continually pops up when his name is mentioned. raerae had a post about this earlier.  In addition, Ahoppy comes back after a large break apologizing for being absent, and it comes within half-hour of me voting for him, and also Eevee noting that nobody has noticed AHoppy in ages.  His last post before then was more than 2 days ago.  Vacations are vacations, I understand.  But as newer scum confused in a game with some pretty loud voices, there is a lot of incentive to stretch those absences until he gets nervous by many people mentioning his name.

Here is raerae's post to this effect.

shraeye, AHoppy was a pretty frequent poster at the start of the game but then went MIA when talk started to turn away from theory.  EFHW noted that with this post and AHoppy's response was the very next post.  (NOTE: Most posts have been trimmed for spacing.)

No idea: X, -- and I have to look up to see who else is playing -- chairs, Ahoppy, nkirbit.  Would love to hear from you guys!

Sorry, I've been a little busy. I'm planning on rereading and posting my thoughts tonight.

Then nothing for a bit but this...

Alright, I'm about to start my re-read, I'll post thoughts when I finish

EFHW is again the one to notice the under-contributing AHoppy.

Chairs is v/la, Ahoppy hasn't been back.  We haven't heard from raerae or shraeye or theorel much today.  So nothing new to say there.

And BOOM! three posts later the man himself shows up with something that almost resembles reads but really doesn't give opinions on folks.

Again promises read when theorel points out his previous reread post didn't actually contain reads.

I'll get my re-reads when I'm not on mobile. But theorel, I find it strange that you put out your scum reads, and then vote for your number 2. Why not your number 1?

Finally posts a real read re: SB & TA and fell on the side of seeing SB as scummy.

[raerae]

This is a convenience lynch.  Half the people on this wagon are voting because they "don't like" the other options, not because they think Eevee is scum.  We still have plenty of time.  If you don't like the options then present a new one.

I agree 100% with this.  But everyone knows who my alternative lynch is, and no one agrees with me, so I don't know what else to do.

So look at the other options.  There is more than one scum in this game.  Expand your horizons and work toward a town win.

[Twistedarcher]

Shraeye, two reasons why I'm hesitant and why I prefer Eevee:

1) I have a town read on Nkirbit, and Nkirbit has reason to believe Ahoppy is town based off his leaked info.

2) I just think this might be how Ahoppy plays, and that he's not all that used to scumhunting, and goes off of stuff other people generate. That's just a different way of playing, and not necessarily scummy.

The idea of lynching lurkers is that they're scared and they stay back and are afraid to post normally, right? Well, if the person posts the same amount and hunts the same amount as they did when they were town, this argument loses traction.

Don't get me wrong, he's definitely not the worst lynch, and I'm slight scum on him (although less so after nkirbit's info), but I think Eevee is more likely to flip scum.

I'd still lynch Ahoppy over EFHW, though.

[EFHW]

EFHW, I agree that lynching you based on a feeling of "We didn't think she was scum before, either" is silly. That said, I don't think "argh" or "ugh" indicate alignment at all.

Yeah, if only it was that easy!

[nkirbit]

My question is, what did you discover that tipped you towards Eevee?  Anything more specific that this post below?

No.  I feel bad about this vote, but won't feel any better on EFHW, so I'd rather just get to day2.  If people show any interest at all in lynching Xeiron, I would jump there in an instant.  But I've pushed and pushed and pushed and no one is buying my case.

My reason for voting Eevee is extremely weak.  I'm choosing between the three wagons here.  I don't want to pursue Ahoppy for the reason we've been discussing.  I don't have good reasons to support EFHW or Eevee.  Both are similar to games in which they were scum (mean girls for eevee and shakespeare for efhw).  I have a scummy read on Ash, so I'm uncomfortable with a player he's tunneling.  Eevee does have minor issues, but they're minor.

I really want to lynch Xeiron, but I don't see that happening.  Honestly, I don't have much of a preference between EFHW and Eevee.

[nkirbit]

This is a convenience lynch.  Half the people on this wagon are voting because they "don't like" the other options, not because they think Eevee is scum.  We still have plenty of time.  If you don't like the options then present a new one.

I agree 100% with this.  But everyone knows who my alternative lynch is, and no one agrees with me, so I don't know what else to do.

So look at the other options.  There is more than one scum in this game.  Expand your horizons and work toward a town win.

I know.  I know.  I've spent so much time tunneling on Xeiron, that even if I'm correct, I should start looking elsewhere.  But I'm very unhappy with all 3 of the wagons.. I have re-read all three players and don't want to vote any of them.  Yet I feel pressure to vote here.

[Twistedarcher]

That's not the impression I was getting before, nkirbit. Why are you only saying this now?