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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192204 times)

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xeiron

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1275 on: July 02, 2013, 03:56:11 pm »

Xeiron:  If you want a no-lynch because all of the wagons are bad, what wagons do you think would be good?

I think Shraeye, Twistedarcher, mail-mi and nkirbit are all better options that EFHW, Eevee and Ahoppy.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1276 on: July 02, 2013, 03:59:53 pm »

Why?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1277 on: July 02, 2013, 04:00:54 pm »

Xeiron:  If you want a no-lynch because all of the wagons are bad, what wagons do you think would be good?

I think Shraeye, Twistedarcher, mail-mi and nkirbit are all better options that EFHW, Eevee and Ahoppy.

Please explain your reads. I don't think you've done so at any point?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1278 on: July 02, 2013, 04:01:37 pm »

Nkirbit speaks so much sense about Xeiron...I think he's town but ugh everytime I read one of Nkirbit's posts, I start to wonder..

Nkirbit, about Ahoppy. How sure are you about this "reservation" you have?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1279 on: July 02, 2013, 04:03:39 pm »

Not at all sure.  I'm making a couple of assumptions.  I'm assuming that I'm correctly gaining the info I'm gaining from his post, and assuming that the info makes him town.  Both assumptions are over 50% by a good deal, but put them together and it's far away from a slam dunk, but still somewhat significant.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1280 on: July 02, 2013, 04:17:52 pm »

One problem about lynching EFHW is that when she was scum in RMM7, no one (especially not me) had any clue. So, being suspected a lot doesn't really fit what we know of her previous scum play.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1281 on: July 02, 2013, 04:18:56 pm »

Ugh, I do agree with shraeye that we should vote a lurker, and would rather lynch Ahoppy than either Eevee or EFHW, but I have one major reservation about this lynch that makes me uncomfortable.  It has to do with the leaked info from his one post... it was info that town would more likely have than scum.  I know this is really vague, and I can elaborate, but don't think I should at this point.

I have a town read on Eevee, so won't be voting there.

EFHW I'm still null on.  I not as convinced as Ash that it was a scum slip, but it could be.  And that's really all I have on EFHW.  And she's not a lurker.

I really am torn between the two of them.  I know I said I would choose Ahoppy earlier, but I have a serious reservation, and I don't have one about EFHW.  On the surface, I agree that Ahoppy has been lurking more and has not been scumhunting much.  Basically, I have reasons to lynch ahoppy and a decent reason to not lynch ahoppy, but not much on EFHW at all, so I'm unsure of what to do.

I think the tie-breaker is going to have to be that I have the same feeling here that I had about EFHW in Shakespeare:  No clue.  In Shakespeare it turned out she was scum.  I'm going to hope the same is true here if we end up on this lynch.

Vote:  EFHW
So all you have is that you have a null read, I'm towny like I was in Shakespeare, and Ashersky thinks I made a scumslip.  I knew I could expect to get increased mistrust after Shakespeare, but even so I don't think town!you would vote based on this, and given the interactions between you and Eevee, and your crusade against xeiron, I'd venture to say you and Eevee may be partners.

This is an aside with no scientific basis whatsoever, but my subjective impression is that posts starting with "Ugh" or "Argh" tend to be by scum.  Has anyone else observed that?  Also purely subjective, the first paragraph of nkirbit's post reads scummy to me.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1282 on: July 02, 2013, 04:20:00 pm »

One problem about lynching EFHW is that when she was scum in RMM7, no one (especially not me) had any clue. So, being suspected a lot doesn't really fit what we know of her previous scum play.
Does fit with Pirates, though!
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1283 on: July 02, 2013, 04:20:50 pm »

I said ugh and argh because I'm not happy about it.  I won't be happy if we lynch anyone except for Xeiron.  I think I've been pretty clear on that.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1284 on: July 02, 2013, 04:24:12 pm »

Ugh, I do agree with shraeye that we should vote a lurker, and would rather lynch Ahoppy than either Eevee or EFHW, but I have one major reservation about this lynch that makes me uncomfortable.  It has to do with the leaked info from his one post... it was info that town would more likely have than scum.  I know this is really vague, and I can elaborate, but don't think I should at this point.

I have a town read on Eevee, so won't be voting there.

EFHW I'm still null on.  I not as convinced as Ash that it was a scum slip, but it could be.  And that's really all I have on EFHW.  And she's not a lurker.

I really am torn between the two of them.  I know I said I would choose Ahoppy earlier, but I have a serious reservation, and I don't have one about EFHW.  On the surface, I agree that Ahoppy has been lurking more and has not been scumhunting much.  Basically, I have reasons to lynch ahoppy and a decent reason to not lynch ahoppy, but not much on EFHW at all, so I'm unsure of what to do.

I think the tie-breaker is going to have to be that I have the same feeling here that I had about EFHW in Shakespeare:  No clue.  In Shakespeare it turned out she was scum.  I'm going to hope the same is true here if we end up on this lynch.

Vote:  EFHW
So all you have is that you have a null read, I'm towny like I was in Shakespeare, and Ashersky thinks I made a scumslip.  I knew I could expect to get increased mistrust after Shakespeare, but even so I don't think town!you would vote based on this, and given the interactions between you and Eevee, and your crusade against xeiron, I'd venture to say you and Eevee may be partners.

This is an aside with no scientific basis whatsoever, but my subjective impression is that posts starting with "Ugh" or "Argh" tend to be by scum.  Has anyone else observed that?  Also purely subjective, the first paragraph of nkirbit's post reads scummy to me.

It's a null-read because I'm having difficultly nailing down a read on you, rather than having a lot of information and not being sure what it means.  I had the same feeling in Shakespeare, and translated it to a town read, which was incorrect.  Again, it may just be that I have a hard time reading you regardless.  I'm far from sold on this case.  But I have a townread on Eevee and a serious reservation about lynching Ahoppy, so you're what's left by process of elimination.  It's an extremely weak case, I know.
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1285 on: July 02, 2013, 04:24:34 pm »

Ugh, I do agree with shraeye that we should vote a lurker, and would rather lynch Ahoppy than either Eevee or EFHW, but I have one major reservation about this lynch that makes me uncomfortable.  It has to do with the leaked info from his one post... it was info that town would more likely have than scum.  I know this is really vague, and I can elaborate, but don't think I should at this point.

I have a town read on Eevee, so won't be voting there.

EFHW I'm still null on.  I not as convinced as Ash that it was a scum slip, but it could be.  And that's really all I have on EFHW.  And she's not a lurker.

I really am torn between the two of them.  I know I said I would choose Ahoppy earlier, but I have a serious reservation, and I don't have one about EFHW.  On the surface, I agree that Ahoppy has been lurking more and has not been scumhunting much.  Basically, I have reasons to lynch ahoppy and a decent reason to not lynch ahoppy, but not much on EFHW at all, so I'm unsure of what to do.

I think the tie-breaker is going to have to be that I have the same feeling here that I had about EFHW in Shakespeare:  No clue.  In Shakespeare it turned out she was scum.  I'm going to hope the same is true here if we end up on this lynch.

Vote:  EFHW
So all you have is that you have a null read, I'm towny like I was in Shakespeare, and Ashersky thinks I made a scumslip.  I knew I could expect to get increased mistrust after Shakespeare, but even so I don't think town!you would vote based on this, and given the interactions between you and Eevee, and your crusade against xeiron, I'd venture to say you and Eevee may be partners.

This is an aside with no scientific basis whatsoever, but my subjective impression is that posts starting with "Ugh" or "Argh" tend to be by scum.  Has anyone else observed that?  Also purely subjective, the first paragraph of nkirbit's post reads scummy to me.

One problem about lynching EFHW is that when she was scum in RMM7, no one (especially not me) had any clue. So, being suspected a lot doesn't really fit what we know of her previous scum play.
Does fit with Pirates, though!

Argh, generalizations are bad matey!

EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1286 on: July 02, 2013, 04:27:43 pm »

But I have a townread on Eevee and a serious reservation about lynching Ahoppy, so you're what's left by process of elimination.  It's an extremely weak case, I know.
Can you elaborate on the reasons for your townread on Eevee?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1287 on: July 02, 2013, 04:28:08 pm »

One problem about lynching EFHW is that when she was scum in RMM7, no one (especially not me) had any clue. So, being suspected a lot doesn't really fit what we know of her previous scum play.

I'm going to disagree with this.  There WERE suspicions towards EFHW.  I didn't have them, but I don't have them now, so that's not a concern.  But Day1, TA was very uneasy with how EFHW sheeped his case on me without appearing to understand what the case was.  In his twilight, or just before his death, Lio had EFHW and Sudgy as his top scumreads.  So there were certainly suspicions early, but they were just never acted on.  Had there been a player like Ash to tunnel EFHW in that game, we could have easily lynched EFHW.  I think the difference in suspicions is due to the circumstances surrounding EFHW, not EFHW herself, so I don't buy it as a reason EFHW "couldn't be scum."
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1288 on: July 02, 2013, 04:29:32 pm »

Argh, generalizations are bad matey!

Yeah, that's what I always say when I hear them too. 
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1289 on: July 02, 2013, 04:32:30 pm »

But I have a townread on Eevee and a serious reservation about lynching Ahoppy, so you're what's left by process of elimination.  It's an extremely weak case, I know.
Can you elaborate on the reasons for your townread on Eevee?

It's an impression.  I've gotten the feeling that he's been open to all cases and has put in effort to seeing both sides of all coins.  He's listened to other player's reads, has put opinions out there, I know what he thinks on a number of issues.  He's created a noticeable impression in my mind as him driving discussion forward but not attempting to control it.  It's pretty much identical to the townread I have on TA... I just feel like he's been acting in a pro-town way, and have no reasons to think he's not town.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1290 on: July 02, 2013, 04:34:34 pm »

You can contrast that read with my read on Ashersky.. I felt that in certain situations, Ash failed to consider issues in ways that I felt would have been consistent with the rest of his play.  I don't have that issue with Eevee.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1291 on: July 02, 2013, 05:14:03 pm »

Not at all sure.  I'm making a couple of assumptions.  I'm assuming that I'm correctly gaining the info I'm gaining from his post, and assuming that the info makes him town.  Both assumptions are over 50% by a good deal, but put them together and it's far away from a slam dunk, but still somewhat significant.

I have a towny read on Nkirbit, and this is giving me pause about voting Ahoppy. I still don't want to vote EFHW, since I don't see the case there, and a lot of my scumread on her was tied into Spiritbears, who has since flipped town.

I think most of the case on Ahoppy is he's a lurker and not scum hunting, correct? That's how he played in Mean Girls. The stuff he did previously when I voted was certainly fishy, but it's true that he jumped on Eevee, and not EFHW, when EFHW had the most votes.

That said,

Vote: Eevee

My re-read of Spiritbears gave Eevee a few more scum points, and I think I'm more comfortable voting him rather than Ahoppy. I've been pretty good at reading Eevee, and I should trust my read on this.

Here's the main things I have problems with on Eevee. Rather than one big thing, it's a lot of little things, but it's the best case we have at this point.

His flip-flop on spiritbears is the biggest. Ash correctly pointed out that Eevee originally put himself in a position to gain when Spiritbears flipped town.

His reaction to Nkirbit's reads struck me as really strange. For a read list that was so similar to mine, Eevee had completely different reactions to my list and Nkirbit's list, when the only significant difference was mail-mi's placement.

His proclaiming of "this is my meta!" was strange, and I read it as manipulation. Also, the buddying of Nkirbit may be an attempt to play with his meta, as well.

I dont' feel as strongly about this as I did about Spiritbears, or even about Xeiron, but I like this lynch better than Ahoppy after Nkirbit's most recent post, and I definitely like it better than an EFHW lynch (who I don't see the case on).
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1292 on: July 02, 2013, 05:16:42 pm »

I had originally wanted to lynch background, but out of the background players (Ahoppy, Chairs, Xeiron, Theorel, and I'd say Shraeye even) I think Xeiron and Chairs are town, I don't really think Ahoppy is the most likely to flip town, I still don't know how to read Theorel, and I have a small town read on Shraeye (although I can't even remember why, I don't remember anything he's done in FOREVER). I think Eevee just has a better chance of flipping scum -- and we should be lynching scummy players, regardless of foreground / background.

Raerae, Shraeye, what's the case on Ahoppy other than he's lurking and not scumhunting?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1293 on: July 02, 2013, 05:17:38 pm »

EFHW, I agree that lynching you based on a feeling of "We didn't think she was scum before, either" is silly. That said, I don't think "argh" or "ugh" indicate alignment at all.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1294 on: July 02, 2013, 05:29:44 pm »

EFHW, I agree that lynching you based on a feeling of "We didn't think she was scum before, either" is silly. That said, I don't think "argh" or "ugh" indicate alignment at all.

It is silly.  But not as silly as everyone believing Xeiron.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1295 on: July 02, 2013, 05:37:55 pm »

EFHW, I agree that lynching you based on a feeling of "We didn't think she was scum before, either" is silly. That said, I don't think "argh" or "ugh" indicate alignment at all.

It is silly.  But not as silly as everyone believing Xeiron.

I think he's just really mistaken but I buy that he's town. I honestly don't expect his plan to amount to much, though.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1296 on: July 02, 2013, 05:42:12 pm »

The fact that Xeiron is trying to get us off of a lynch and towards a no lynch indicates to me that we're on the correct track, or close to the correct track.  I have serious reservations on Ahoppy for a specific reason, so he's the one out of the three I'm least likely to vote.  I'm going to go back and re-examine EFHW and Eevee.  EFHW is correct that I don't have a good reason to vote for her.  I'm going to go re-read Ash's case, and see if anything new pops out.  I'm going to examine my views on Eevee starting with the points that TA pointed out.  Does anyone else have anything in particular they think is a good point on the possibility of Eevee being scum?
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shraeye

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1297 on: July 02, 2013, 06:14:35 pm »

I'm kind of in the same boat as theorel - none of the wagons presented are particularly appealing.  However, I'm willing to take a bad lynch over no lynch, I suppose.  I'd like to see some (polite, calm) arguments for/against eevee and efhw cases to see if I can be swayed to either, but I'm leaning towards the relatively-quiet Ahoppy at the moment.
I think most of the case on Ahoppy is he's a lurker and not scum hunting, correct? That's how he played in Mean Girls. The stuff he did previously when I voted was certainly fishy, but it's true that he jumped on Eevee, and not EFHW, when EFHW had the most votes.

It's not just that he's being quiet and backgroundy.  I think that is a large strike against him.  But also, when you review his posts, he spent the early part of today talking about theory while there was plenty of scumhunting going on to talk about.  After many posts about items/no-lynch, AHoppy posts this:

Quote
I think TA has hit it on the nose. I think today we should work on more scum hunting and less on the items. I like the items, I think it's cool, but I also think they could serve as a distraction from the big goal:kill scum. And I think scum could use that to their advantage
saying we should focus more on scumhunting. 

His next 3 posts are all about items and theory, and the third finishes with this
Quote
However, I should remind people that we do need to get to scum hunting.

His next post (#284) is really the first that he tries to do anything in the way of scumhunting.  And all he does is call out lurkers; also misremembering who was fightign with Twisted at that point (it was me, but he said raerae).  He really isn't focused on any arguments, or any scumhunting at this point.  Finally he starts coming in with some reads about people starting from #554, but since then he's only had 15 posts.

The second point against AHoppy, is that in addition to being relatively absent, he continually pops up when his name is mentioned. raerae had a post about this earlier.  In addition, Ahoppy comes back after a large break apologizing for being absent, and it comes within half-hour of me voting for him, and also Eevee noting that nobody has noticed AHoppy in ages.  His last post before then was more than 2 days ago.  Vacations are vacations, I understand.  But as newer scum confused in a game with some pretty loud voices, there is a lot of incentive to stretch those absences until he gets nervous by many people mentioning his name.

Here is raerae's post to this effect.
shraeye, AHoppy was a pretty frequent poster at the start of the game but then went MIA when talk started to turn away from theory.  EFHW noted that with this post and AHoppy's response was the very next post.  (NOTE: Most posts have been trimmed for spacing.)

No idea: X, -- and I have to look up to see who else is playing -- chairs, Ahoppy, nkirbit.  Would love to hear from you guys!

Sorry, I've been a little busy. I'm planning on rereading and posting my thoughts tonight.

Then nothing for a bit but this...

Alright, I'm about to start my re-read, I'll post thoughts when I finish

EFHW is again the one to notice the under-contributing AHoppy.

Chairs is v/la, Ahoppy hasn't been back.  We haven't heard from raerae or shraeye or theorel much today.  So nothing new to say there.

And BOOM! three posts later the man himself shows up with something that almost resembles reads but really doesn't give opinions on folks.


Again promises read when theorel points out his previous reread post didn't actually contain reads.

I'll get my re-reads when I'm not on mobile. But theorel, I find it strange that you put out your scum reads, and then vote for your number 2. Why not your number 1?

Finally posts a real read re: SB & TA and fell on the side of seeing SB as scummy.


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shraeye

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1298 on: July 02, 2013, 06:15:07 pm »

Seriously, AHoppy is a good lynch, I don't see why people are dismissing it so quick.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #1299 on: July 02, 2013, 06:19:54 pm »

Seriously, AHoppy is a good lynch, I don't see why people are dismissing it so quick.

I am dismissing it because I have reason to believe he leaked information that would more likely come from a town member than a mafia member.  If he were to claim at some point, depending on what he claimed, I would immediately support the lynch or say why I'm strongly opposed to it.  But until then, my best action is to oppose it, I believe.
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