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[nkirbit]

I would vote ahoppy over efhw if it came to it.  But I wouldn't be happy about it

Ash, I will elaborate on my read when I get home

[EFHW]

Would vote: Eevee, mail-mi
Would need more convincing to vote: Ahoppy, raerae, nkirbit, Ashersky
Won't vote: everyone else.

Eevee I wasn't turning your words around, I thought you were ignoring the larger part of his post where he disagreed with you about me.  By saying "he agrees with me" you are implying that he agrees with you on everything.  You didn't say "he agrees with me about Ahoppy".  So I was correcting that possible distortion.  Sorry for the extra comment, though, I guess that was unnecessary.

[raerae]

Would vote: Eevee, mail-mi
Would need more convincing to vote: Ahoppy, raerae, nkirbit, Ashersky
Won't vote: everyone else.

Eevee I wasn't turning your words around, I thought you were ignoring the larger part of his post where he disagreed with you about me.  By saying "he agrees with me" you are implying that he agrees with you on everything.  You didn't say "he agrees with me about Ahoppy".  So I was correcting that possible distortion.  Sorry for the extra comment, though, I guess that was unnecessary.

Does shraeye fall in the "won't vote" category? 

[EFHW]

Would vote: Eevee, mail-mi
Would need more convincing to vote: Ahoppy, raerae, nkirbit, Ashersky
Won't vote: everyone else.

Eevee I wasn't turning your words around, I thought you were ignoring the larger part of his post where he disagreed with you about me.  By saying "he agrees with me" you are implying that he agrees with you on everything.  You didn't say "he agrees with me about Ahoppy".  So I was correcting that possible distortion.  Sorry for the extra comment, though, I guess that was unnecessary.

Does shraeye fall in the "won't vote" category?

At this point, yes.  I didn't like his case on TA or his reaction to my challenging it, but that was ages ago now.  And he's defending me!  I find that towny 

[EFHW]

So I guess we are done for tonight?  I'll be really interested to see what TA, chairs, Theorel and xeiron have to say about all this tomorrow. 

Please let me claim first if I get to the point of being lynched while I'm gone.

[nkirbit]

Okay, Ash:  When I said would lynch, that was probably a little bit strong.  Most of my uncertainty with you has been over your interactions with Xeiron, who, as I've repeated, I strongly believe to be scum.  So I'm having uncertainties about your interactions with someone who I think is scum, but I don't know they're scum, so perhaps I'm being unfair in judging you before I see his flip.  But I really do believe he's scum, so that's obviously going to be a factor in how I think about this game.  I wouldn't choose you before mail-mi, xeiron, or ahoppy.. I think Shraeye is correct that we should be lynching background players.

Around post #775, in that general area, there's a lot of pressure about mail-mi.  You and Eevee are grilling TA about his read on mail-mi in particular, which I think is great!  In #798, you sum up your thoughts on mail-mi, which shows you've put a lot of thought into whether or not you think the case on him is good.  Cool stuff.

There's a trend shortly afterwards of moving away from mail-mi and towards Xeiron, as typified by your post on #819 when you say "X is a good lynch too".  In #839 you say "I think X is scummy, it's not like he's a bad lynch or anything.  I won't stop an X lynch, but it'd be surprising for him to be scum."  And then you say "You know the problem with an X lynch?  Zero info gained from his flip, either way.  I mean, that's a good reason to lurk if you are scum, but still."  It's unclear why you didn't say the same thing when we were focused on mail-mi.  It reads to me as if you're trying to stop all momentum on a potential Xeiron lynch before it gets going.  I just feel like you didn't put the same effort into a potential Xeiron lynch that you did with a potential mail-mi lynch.  I thought that at the time, and I still think that now.

Xeiron posts his "claim" at #958.  You are away until #1057, when you come back and vote EFHW's reaction to X's claim.  It's weird to me that you don't comment on whether you think he is town or not.. everyone else reacted, and I felt like they were putting effort into trying to sort through the claim, whether it made sense for town to post it, or scum to post it, and was working through it.  You didn't provide your answer as to whether you thought it was legit or not until explicitly asked to, and even then very briefly discussed it (#1067).  That's the second time I've felt that you haven't put in the effort to examining Xeiron that I felt the situation deserved and you put in elsewhere.

The tunneling EFHW is another concern, although it's minor compared to the Xeiron thing.  It's scummy to tunnel a player to the point at which you find them scummy for another players post (even if it is a mistake).  You're starting every read of every post of hers with the assumption EFHW=scum... of course you're always going to arrive at the conclusion EFHW=scum.  But I think town can do this as well, so it's not nearly as big of an issue.

Look, I realize that this is all obviously based on my scum read on Xeiron.  I have a strong scumread on him, and should he flip town, I will instantly drop a lot of the suspicion I have of you.  And I obviously would much, much, much rather lynch Xeiron than yourself.  But I do have concerns.

[AHoppy]

WHEW.  Finally caught up, albeit with some skimming and not terribly in depth reading.

So, at this point I think that we should let xerion run with his plan.  What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?  Scum gets a pen and paper that they can presumably do something with, and there is a no lynch.  There are only 2 benefits I see from a no-lynch for scum: Less information available to the town, and one of the scum isn't lynched.  So if this is the case, then I would expect this suggestion to come from scum if one of their scum partners were at risk of being lynched.  We haven't had someone at risk of being lynched all game, except perhaps spiritbears and well, he's gone.  He was the only wagon at the time of Xerions claim.  So logically, I'm going to have to take xerion at his word and believe he has a legitmate plan.

HOWEVER: I'm not convinced that we need a no-lynch to make this work.  The only thing a no-lynch would secure, is that paper and pen stay in the game so xerion can get a hold of them.  So who to lynch...

Through reading further, I'm not as convinced that EFHW's "scumslip" was actually a scumslip.  I'll keep it in my mind, but I don't think that should be a reason to lynch. 

Now back to ashersky/eevee.  They made a pretty killer scumteam in mean girls, but they weren't aware that they were even on the same team D1, so it's hard to compare their D1 interactions as scum there to this game.  But, I do know that D2 in mean girls, as soon as ash claimed, eevee was there to say he had no reason to disbelieve ash, and later to congratulate him

I think you timed coning out very well, Ash. Letting the discussion flow and trying to get mcmc lynched without claiming was definitely a good move.

Now here, Eevee and ash are buddying up again a bit.  lemme see if I can find some quotes...

Ash is either running another
gambit, being very clumsy as scum or just having a severe case of tunnel vision.

"Hmm, what he is doing is what I'd associate with his town meta, so he is scum trying to imitate that" is not a reasonable argument, but I don't think we need to have a conversation for everyone to see that.

Why are you reacting under (just my) pressure?  It isn't like you are in any danger.

Why would i let you get away with undeserved pressuring? Like certainly this behavior of yours is worth noting in taking a read on you, it's good material to analyze.

That's fine.

But instead of reacting so much to what I'm saying about you, you ought to be saying:

"man, ash really seems focused on me so far this game, and I think undeservedly.  We should note that as we watch his interactions.  Could definitely seem scummy."

For what it's worth, I think if you are scum this game, you are playing scum badly.  You were wicked good in Mean Girls.  If I was your partner here, I'd be trying to deflect this conversation elsewhere.  Only Ahoppy has done that so far.

here's one I mentioned earlier.  Ash is trying to make eevee look townier, saying he is playing scum badly. 
and a little later

Oh, there is no scum read. There was a brief temptation to OMGUS you, but ultimately I do think it's just us failing to communicate again. Scum ash tends to be nicer to me!

 It's a bit frustrating to have a town read on someone who you think is unreasonably tunneling you, but it is what it is.

Us failing to communicate again.  Or maybe you're actually trying to communicate more as scum partners?  Yeah, too early to be calling partners, but still.  Eevee pointing out that he thinks ash is town.  Then earlier, post 442:

First, I appreciate you trying to get me more involved like that! Very protown work.

Second, hmm. I've been reading, and nothing has really stood out for me. Like all of the arguments have seemed like complicated constructing rather than emotionally unleashing without thinking, if that makes any sense.

I got the town read from your early aggressiveness. Raerae I think matches her town behaviour, but I don't have an opinion on if she is like that when scum as well.

Praising ash for his pro-town work.  What makes it pro town?  There were plenty other people who were under the radar, not just eevee and ash gets praised for bringing eevee back in.  "Thanks for the reminder that I need to have more of a presence" perhaps?

Okay this has all the makings of a mislynch!

TA, you found sort of a contradiction in spirit's position. Before diving further to the rabbit hole, do you think it's more likely he just got stubborn with a read and carried away when it got questioned or that he is scum and playing in a very obvious way?

The reason I think this case on spirit is indeed weaksauce is that he has no reason to act like that as mafia. This feels a lot like you got so excited you found something that you aren't seeing what it is you found.

eevee thinks that TA's spiritbears tunnel has the makings of a mislynch.  Looking for towncred when spiritbears is mislynched?
Now closer to the present stuff:

We shouldn't force xeiron into claimming anything.

this could be easy towncred

anyway, after this, and knowing that I think we do need a lynch, I feel confident to finally put a vote down
Vote: Eevee

[AHoppy]

Oh, and do we have a new soft deadline?  Later at night works best for me.  Like, otherwise I may not be able to get on...

[ashersky]

Okay, Ash:  When I said would lynch, that was probably a little bit strong.  Most of my uncertainty with you has been over your interactions with Xeiron, who, as I've repeated, I strongly believe to be scum.  So I'm having uncertainties about your interactions with someone who I think is scum, but I don't know they're scum, so perhaps I'm being unfair in judging you before I see his flip.  But I really do believe he's scum, so that's obviously going to be a factor in how I think about this game.  I wouldn't choose you before mail-mi, xeiron, or ahoppy.. I think Shraeye is correct that we should be lynching background players.

Around post #775, in that general area, there's a lot of pressure about mail-mi.  You and Eevee are grilling TA about his read on mail-mi in particular, which I think is great!  In #798, you sum up your thoughts on mail-mi, which shows you've put a lot of thought into whether or not you think the case on him is good.  Cool stuff.

There's a trend shortly afterwards of moving away from mail-mi and towards Xeiron, as typified by your post on #819 when you say "X is a good lynch too".  In #839 you say "I think X is scummy, it's not like he's a bad lynch or anything.  I won't stop an X lynch, but it'd be surprising for him to be scum."  And then you say "You know the problem with an X lynch?  Zero info gained from his flip, either way.  I mean, that's a good reason to lurk if you are scum, but still."  It's unclear why you didn't say the same thing when we were focused on mail-mi.  It reads to me as if you're trying to stop all momentum on a potential Xeiron lynch before it gets going.  I just feel like you didn't put the same effort into a potential Xeiron lynch that you did with a potential mail-mi lynch.  I thought that at the time, and I still think that now.

Xeiron posts his "claim" at #958.  You are away until #1057, when you come back and vote EFHW's reaction to X's claim.  It's weird to me that you don't comment on whether you think he is town or not.. everyone else reacted, and I felt like they were putting effort into trying to sort through the claim, whether it made sense for town to post it, or scum to post it, and was working through it.  You didn't provide your answer as to whether you thought it was legit or not until explicitly asked to, and even then very briefly discussed it (#1067).  That's the second time I've felt that you haven't put in the effort to examining Xeiron that I felt the situation deserved and you put in elsewhere.

The tunneling EFHW is another concern, although it's minor compared to the Xeiron thing.  It's scummy to tunnel a player to the point at which you find them scummy for another players post (even if it is a mistake).  You're starting every read of every post of hers with the assumption EFHW=scum... of course you're always going to arrive at the conclusion EFHW=scum.  But I think town can do this as well, so it's not nearly as big of an issue.

Look, I realize that this is all obviously based on my scum read on Xeiron.  I have a strong scumread on him, and should he flip town, I will instantly drop a lot of the suspicion I have of you.  And I obviously would much, much, much rather lynch Xeiron than yourself.  But I do have concerns.

Nkirbit, good post.

I think I'm convinced about EFHW the way you are about Xeiron.

I think the problem with juxtaposing my commentary on X from before the claim and after is that a lot happened between the two.  When I was like "eh, he's an okay lynch," it was when he was just lurking, and had that weird vote on raerae when I did my raerae gambit.  My stuff after the claim was after he claimed a crapton, and to me become obvbadtown.  And so now, I will fight against his lynch, whereas before, I would not have.

Still, good of you to pull stuff and put it together like this.

Where you talk about the grilling of mail-mi, I do think that stuff was important.  I do find him scummy, and think he's a good option.  I am just further convinced on EFHW than him.

[nkirbit]

What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?

A scum doesn't get lynched?  That seems like a pretty good benefit.

[ashersky]

WHEW.  Finally caught up, albeit with some skimming and not terribly in depth reading.

So, at this point I think that we should let xerion run with his plan.  What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?  Scum gets a pen and paper that they can presumably do something with, and there is a no lynch.  There are only 2 benefits I see from a no-lynch for scum: Less information available to the town, and one of the scum isn't lynched.  So if this is the case, then I would expect this suggestion to come from scum if one of their scum partners were at risk of being lynched.  We haven't had someone at risk of being lynched all game, except perhaps spiritbears and well, he's gone.  He was the only wagon at the time of Xerions claim.  So logically, I'm going to have to take xerion at his word and believe he has a legitmate plan.

HOWEVER: I'm not convinced that we need a no-lynch to make this work.  The only thing a no-lynch would secure, is that paper and pen stay in the game so xerion can get a hold of them.  So who to lynch...

Through reading further, I'm not as convinced that EFHW's "scumslip" was actually a scumslip.  I'll keep it in my mind, but I don't think that should be a reason to lynch. 

Now back to ashersky/eevee.  They made a pretty killer scumteam in mean girls, but they weren't aware that they were even on the same team D1, so it's hard to compare their D1 interactions as scum there to this game.  But, I do know that D2 in mean girls, as soon as ash claimed, eevee was there to say he had no reason to disbelieve ash, and later to congratulate him

I think you timed coning out very well, Ash. Letting the discussion flow and trying to get mcmc lynched without claiming was definitely a good move.

Now here, Eevee and ash are buddying up again a bit.  lemme see if I can find some quotes...

Ash is either running another
gambit, being very clumsy as scum or just having a severe case of tunnel vision.

"Hmm, what he is doing is what I'd associate with his town meta, so he is scum trying to imitate that" is not a reasonable argument, but I don't think we need to have a conversation for everyone to see that.

Why are you reacting under (just my) pressure?  It isn't like you are in any danger.

Why would i let you get away with undeserved pressuring? Like certainly this behavior of yours is worth noting in taking a read on you, it's good material to analyze.

That's fine.

But instead of reacting so much to what I'm saying about you, you ought to be saying:

"man, ash really seems focused on me so far this game, and I think undeservedly.  We should note that as we watch his interactions.  Could definitely seem scummy."

For what it's worth, I think if you are scum this game, you are playing scum badly.  You were wicked good in Mean Girls.  If I was your partner here, I'd be trying to deflect this conversation elsewhere.  Only Ahoppy has done that so far.

here's one I mentioned earlier.  Ash is trying to make eevee look townier, saying he is playing scum badly. 
and a little later

Oh, there is no scum read. There was a brief temptation to OMGUS you, but ultimately I do think it's just us failing to communicate again. Scum ash tends to be nicer to me!

 It's a bit frustrating to have a town read on someone who you think is unreasonably tunneling you, but it is what it is.

Us failing to communicate again.  Or maybe you're actually trying to communicate more as scum partners?  Yeah, too early to be calling partners, but still.  Eevee pointing out that he thinks ash is town.  Then earlier, post 442:

First, I appreciate you trying to get me more involved like that! Very protown work.

Second, hmm. I've been reading, and nothing has really stood out for me. Like all of the arguments have seemed like complicated constructing rather than emotionally unleashing without thinking, if that makes any sense.

I got the town read from your early aggressiveness. Raerae I think matches her town behaviour, but I don't have an opinion on if she is like that when scum as well.

Praising ash for his pro-town work.  What makes it pro town?  There were plenty other people who were under the radar, not just eevee and ash gets praised for bringing eevee back in.  "Thanks for the reminder that I need to have more of a presence" perhaps?

Okay this has all the makings of a mislynch!

TA, you found sort of a contradiction in spirit's position. Before diving further to the rabbit hole, do you think it's more likely he just got stubborn with a read and carried away when it got questioned or that he is scum and playing in a very obvious way?

The reason I think this case on spirit is indeed weaksauce is that he has no reason to act like that as mafia. This feels a lot like you got so excited you found something that you aren't seeing what it is you found.

eevee thinks that TA's spiritbears tunnel has the makings of a mislynch.  Looking for towncred when spiritbears is mislynched?
Now closer to the present stuff:

We shouldn't force xeiron into claimming anything.

this could be easy towncred

anyway, after this, and knowing that I think we do need a lynch, I feel confident to finally put a vote down
Vote: Eevee

This is interesting stuff, and it's always fun to hear about how my previous scum play was viewed.

I'd posit this though -- if Eevee and I are scum partners again, would we be this obvious in our banter?  Like, not-so-secret obvious code calling my partner out for not doing a great job? 

Granted, I could see myself planning something like this, but probably not on D1.  Neither of us were in any danger around that time.  I haven't come under much pressure at all all day.  Eevee wasn't feeling any heat then either.  I just don't see it.

Could Eevee be scum?  Oh yeah.  The case I built on him, while weak, was a real case.  I don't see him being the D1 lynch, though.

[ashersky]

What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?

A scum doesn't get lynched?  That seems like a pretty good benefit.

He asked for two no-lynches, remember.  So scum gets two free passes.  I don't like that about the plan, and absolutely think we don't follow the plan.

So we lynch today, we lynch tomorrow.  We don't lynch X.  I don't think anyone should give him pen/paper, either.

He's either WIFOM'ed himself into surviving all game with no way to use his powers, or he's going to die at night.  It's unfortunately, but that's the danger in these types of claims.

[nkirbit]

What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?

A scum doesn't get lynched?  That seems like a pretty good benefit.

I guess you said that already, oops.  But I think you are wrong about the wagons at the time.. I will go back and double check and post if this is not the case, but I'm pretty sure Xeiron had four votes on him when he claimed.

[ashersky]

What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?

A scum doesn't get lynched?  That seems like a pretty good benefit.

I guess you said that already, oops.  But I think you are wrong about the wagons at the time.. I will go back and double check and post if this is not the case, but I'm pretty sure Xeiron had four votes on him when he claimed.

Who are you directing this at?  Ahoppy?

X's claim definitely came while under pressure.

[nkirbit]

Ahoppy:  Why Eevee and not Ash, out of curiosity?

I wonder if Chairs is planning on sending Xeiron paper or not.  Which he was around.

[nkirbit]

What does scum have to benefit from his claim if he is fake-claiming?

A scum doesn't get lynched?  That seems like a pretty good benefit.

I guess you said that already, oops.  But I think you are wrong about the wagons at the time.. I will go back and double check and post if this is not the case, but I'm pretty sure Xeiron had four votes on him when he claimed.

Who are you directing this at?  Ahoppy?

X's claim definitely came while under pressure.

Yes, I just checked, and he was at 4 votes when he claimed.

We haven't had someone at risk of being lynched all game, except perhaps spiritbears and well, he's gone.  He was the only wagon at the time of Xerions claim.  So logically, I'm going to have to take xerion at his word and believe he has a legitmate plan.

Ahoppy had said this.  I think "he was the only wagon" refers to SB.. that's just not the case, if that's what you meant.

[ashersky]

For fun, let's deconstruct the claim as if X is scum.  Here's the post:

I probably won't make myself more popular with this, but vote: no-lynch

I have given this some thought and I think nolynch is a lot better in this game that most other games.
Nolynch ensure us more powerroles still in the game. Both because of any starting power a lynchée might have and because of the items that could boost the other players. It think the extra information we gain at night by not lynching town could make up for us missing a chance to lynch scum.

Besides I have come up with a plan that i hope can win us(town) this game. I can't tell you the details yet so you would have to trust me on this one. The first step is obviously to no-lynch today.  For the rest to work more smoothly I would like to make an item request.

Could you please send me a pen and some paper during the night?

So he opens the claim with the no-lynch vote.  He discusses it and supports it with the "more powerroles" argument and the extra info at night argument.  He needs to make these arguments sound pro-town because of the pro-scum problems with not lynching.

Then he says he has a plan that can win town the game.  Note the parenthetical use of town there to make sure we know he means town.  That is something scum will do sometimes when they are self-conscious about pronouns such as "us."  He has a plan, but can't share the details.  Wants trust.

Then he asks for pen and paper.  So, here is the only really specific part of the claim.  And it's pretty easy to fake, given chairs had already claimed paper.  DO YOU ALL NOW SEE WHY IT IS BAD TO CLAIM LIKE THAT?  If X is scum, and if X needed a fake claim, he now had something others can confirm to use in it.  One can assume pen is an okay thing to fake given we know paper is in the game.

These are the thought processes I think go into this if it is a fake claim.

[nkirbit]

Are you at all anxious about the fact that the items he claimed he needs are the one item we have claimed and the item that most obviously matches it?  I sure am.

[nkirbit]

I keep going back to this

especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.

which is EFHW's "scumslip" and seeing if I can see it as a scumslip.

Suppose you were in an open game, where you know that possible PRs are say, Cop, doctor, JK, tracker.  Doesn't really matter what.  If I were a VT, and thought that another player were cop, and for some reason wanted to point it out, saying "This person could be a cop" seems like a perfectly natural way to say that, right?  Even if you're unsure about whether there actually is a cop in the game or not, I don't think that would be odd or indicate knowledge of a cop in the game.  This is the same phrase that EFHW used, pretty much, and I don't think that it indicated knowledge of a stealing power.  Just my two cents upon re-reading EFHW.

Still working on the overall re-read.  Man, they're daunting at this point.

[nkirbit]

I just finished re-reading EFHW, and I really just have an exceptionally hard time reading her.  The oddest thing for me is saying that she has a null-read on Ahoppy #1194, but her last post about Ahoppy was in #651 where she describes him as scummy.  Why the change?

[ashersky]

Are you at all anxious about the fact that the items he claimed he needs are the one item we have claimed and the item that most obviously matches it?  I sure am.

It's suspicious, yes.

Here's a question: a lot of assumptions about this have been that he wants to write something down or send a message.  Do we think that this is a possible way of communication outside the game?  Do we think that it would be the only way to do that?

[ashersky]

I keep going back to this

especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.

which is EFHW's "scumslip" and seeing if I can see it as a scumslip.

Suppose you were in an open game, where you know that possible PRs are say, Cop, doctor, JK, tracker.  Doesn't really matter what.  If I were a VT, and thought that another player were cop, and for some reason wanted to point it out, saying "This person could be a cop" seems like a perfectly natural way to say that, right?  Even if you're unsure about whether there actually is a cop in the game or not, I don't think that would be odd or indicate knowledge of a cop in the game.  This is the same phrase that EFHW used, pretty much, and I don't think that it indicated knowledge of a stealing power.  Just my two cents upon re-reading EFHW.

Still working on the overall re-read.  Man, they're daunting at this point.

In your example, the fact that a "cop" exists is known, so the assumption there works.

In the EFHW post, the "stealing stuff" is not a known fact, it's a guess.  But she wrote it as if it was a known fact, like your cop example.

So, your analogy makes me more convinced it is a slip, not less.

[nkirbit]

Are you at all anxious about the fact that the items he claimed he needs are the one item we have claimed and the item that most obviously matches it?  I sure am.

It's suspicious, yes.

Here's a question: a lot of assumptions about this have been that he wants to write something down or send a message.  Do we think that this is a possible way of communication outside the game?  Do we think that it would be the only way to do that?

My guess is that it will only make you a bigger lynch target X...a sentiment I might agree with, since I'm not really down with your item request.  (I have no idea what you're trying to make)....

I am trying to make a communication device so that someone else will get my information and be able to carry out my plan in case I should die.
I am thinking about nightkills, but also on lynches in case some of you would like to lynch me to confirm that I am really town.

Xeiron clearly thinks so, at least.  I think it's possible, but I can't say for sure.

If someone had evidence that there was another way to send messages other than pen and paper, it would be a pretty good reason for them to find Xeiron scummy.

[nkirbit]

I keep going back to this

especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.

which is EFHW's "scumslip" and seeing if I can see it as a scumslip.

Suppose you were in an open game, where you know that possible PRs are say, Cop, doctor, JK, tracker.  Doesn't really matter what.  If I were a VT, and thought that another player were cop, and for some reason wanted to point it out, saying "This person could be a cop" seems like a perfectly natural way to say that, right?  Even if you're unsure about whether there actually is a cop in the game or not, I don't think that would be odd or indicate knowledge of a cop in the game.  This is the same phrase that EFHW used, pretty much, and I don't think that it indicated knowledge of a stealing power.  Just my two cents upon re-reading EFHW.

Still working on the overall re-read.  Man, they're daunting at this point.

In your example, the fact that a "cop" exists is known, so the assumption there works.

In the EFHW post, the "stealing stuff" is not a known fact, it's a guess.  But she wrote it as if it was a known fact, like your cop example.

So, your analogy makes me more convinced it is a slip, not less.

Sorry, I was unclear setting up the situation.  Say there are 2 PRs in the game, and we know that Cop is an option, but not guaranteed.  I still think that it would be a reasonable thing to say even if you didn't know that a cop was in the game.

[ashersky]

I keep going back to this

especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.

which is EFHW's "scumslip" and seeing if I can see it as a scumslip.

Suppose you were in an open game, where you know that possible PRs are say, Cop, doctor, JK, tracker.  Doesn't really matter what.  If I were a VT, and thought that another player were cop, and for some reason wanted to point it out, saying "This person could be a cop" seems like a perfectly natural way to say that, right?  Even if you're unsure about whether there actually is a cop in the game or not, I don't think that would be odd or indicate knowledge of a cop in the game.  This is the same phrase that EFHW used, pretty much, and I don't think that it indicated knowledge of a stealing power.  Just my two cents upon re-reading EFHW.

Still working on the overall re-read.  Man, they're daunting at this point.

In your example, the fact that a "cop" exists is known, so the assumption there works.

In the EFHW post, the "stealing stuff" is not a known fact, it's a guess.  But she wrote it as if it was a known fact, like your cop example.

So, your analogy makes me more convinced it is a slip, not less.

Sorry, I was unclear setting up the situation.  Say there are 2 PRs in the game, and we know that Cop is an option, but not guaranteed.  I still think that it would be a reasonable thing to say even if you didn't know that a cop was in the game.

Which is kind of fine, as that's something neither town or scum would know.

But we're talking about scum powers.  So say "godfather" was the term in question.  Someone can actually know that's in the game without being one.  Not the cop.