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[EFHW]

I think you've misrepresented things multiple times.  I think you've shown you have more set up info than the rest of us. 

Show me where.  You should do the work if you're going to push things this far.

[ashersky]

I don't think EHFW couldn't be scum. But pretty much same can be said for ash, and his certainty is worrisome..

Assuming this was a typo and you met "could" but how about you explain that either way.

Double negatives, how do they work.

Well, I have bit of a reputation to be against day 1 lynches. I like to think I've been correct with a good record too. In this game, I take that stance against the xeiron lynch - I will actively try to make it not happen.

I don't feel that way about EHFW. Ashersky is pushing it with too much certainty and it worries me, but EHFW answers are not convincing to me. I always try to think "could he be like that under pressure as scum", and I think EHFW could be.

Compare how I'm pushing the EFHW case compared to how I pushed cases as scum.  If I am scum forcing an EFHW mislynch, I'm being pretty stupid about it.  What do I gain as scum from it?  Why EFHW over anyone else?

Am I sure she's scum?  As close to sure as you get on D1.  Best case I've seen all day.

[ashersky]

I think you've misrepresented things multiple times.  I think you've shown you have more set up info than the rest of us. 

Show me where.  You should do the work if you're going to push things this far.

Fine.  I'll go requote myself.

[Eevee]

Well, it's a pretty clever scum play if you think you can explain it as obvtown play, isn't it? You did a lot of things in mean girls I'd never expect scum to do.

But, as I said, I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, partially for the reason you stated.

[EFHW]

Well, it's a pretty clever scum play if you think you can explain it as obvtown play, isn't it? You did a lot of things in mean girls I'd never expect scum to do.

But, as I said, I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, partially for the reason you stated.

which reason?

[Eevee]

In fact, in the interest of not dragging this day out longer than necessary and generally lynching over not lynching, I will Vote: EHFW. Fwiw I'm surprised no one seems to be noticing ahoppy at all.

[Eevee]

Well, it's a pretty clever scum play if you think you can explain it as obvtown play, isn't it? You did a lot of things in mean girls I'd never expect scum to do.

But, as I said, I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, partially for the reason you stated.

which reason?

It's not exactly the scum play I'd expect the most - picking a super aggressive townie who is better than average at defending herself and just relentlessly tunneling her when the alternative is a long, dragged out day 1 that isn't leading us any closer to a lynch.

It's like, ash said he thinks this day is getting too long, and now he is acting on it. The overcertainty makes sense for town ash.

[raerae]

In fact, in the interest of not dragging this day out longer than necessary and generally lynching over not lynching, I will Vote: EHFW. Fwiw I'm surprised no one seems to be noticing ahoppy at all.

Why didn't you vote in your double-negative post if that wasn't a typo?

[ashersky]

You said "especially since scum could get a stealing power..."  That's exactly what you said.  Scum "could" get a "stealing power" is a conditional, and the condition to me seems like they could get one [later] even if they don't have one [now].

How do you know they could get one?  That's my question.

"Even if ... they could" means "I don't know if they have one now or not, but if they don't, they still might be able to get one later, we can't know for sure and neither can they,"  not "even if they can't now, they could get the power later, because I know there's there's a combo for that".  Do you see what I mean?

Sure, I see what you could have meant, had you used the word "if."  But, you see, you didn't.

-- He brings up the possibility that scum can steal items.  This could be read either way, but in general I don't think scum would want to alert town to possible dangers, especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.

That's my point.  You didn't say "especially IF scum could get a stealing power..."  You said "especially SINCE scum could get a stealing power."  SINCE to me says you know it.  SINCE = BECAUSE here. 

Read this:  "especially because scum could get a stealing power..."  Pretty bad, right?

So then you cut your quote from the response and say you said "if" even though you didn't.  Lynch all liars.

vote: EFHW

See here, where I point out how you cut out damning portions of your own quote to represent yourself in a better light.

[shraeye]

unvote

I won't participate in lynching xeiron. This is RMM7 all over again people.

I am aware his story is crazy, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are some holes in it. Townies make mistakes. I don't think he would device a plan like this as scum. I don't.

I get the same feeling, Eevee.  What I've really noticed is nkirbit's efforts to get xeiron lynched seem to have increased a lot since the claim.

Here are two of the posts that popped out when I was reading, but I recall there being others as well while I was catching up the last 8 pages or so.

I'm not sold on the no-lynch plan, but I think that we definitely need a not-xeiron-lynch.  Ashersky said basically what I was thinking in the back of my mind while I was reading people's takes on xeiron's plans and it's possible effectiveness.

The way I see the Xeiron lynch at this point is basically a D1 claimed PR lynch.

We have a terrible track record of lynching claimed PRs Day 1.  It's a bad call, I think.

[EFHW]

Well, it's a pretty clever scum play if you think you can explain it as obvtown play, isn't it? You did a lot of things in mean girls I'd never expect scum to do.

But, as I said, I'm leaning towards agreeing with you, partially for the reason you stated.

I don't actually think Ashersky is scum.  I think he is over confident.  But your saying you agree when a minute ago you didn't, is very similar what you did with TA and with mail-mi.  I think you may well be scum.  VOTE: Eevee

PPE: I typed this before seeing that Eevee voted for me.

[Eevee]

In fact, in the interest of not dragging this day out longer than necessary and generally lynching over not lynching, I will Vote: EHFW. Fwiw I'm surprised no one seems to be noticing ahoppy at all.

Why didn't you vote in your double-negative post if that wasn't a typo?

I don't know, didn't think of it? No particular reason, nothing happened inbetween except for a little more thinking.

[ashersky]

The other EFHW misrepresentation that sticks out to me is the "confusion" on EFHW's no lynch stance.  She explains it away as talking about two different points in time, but I'm not sold on it.

[shraeye]

@Eevee, I'd still be down for an AHoppy lynch; I still think a backgroundplayer is the best place to lynch today.  EFHW's reaction to xeiron's plan is exactly what townies need to be thinking now.  Instead of going "oh hey, a plan that somebody claims will work...but I don't understand it...gotta lynch them!" and then complaining when we blew our chances at some serious advantage, I think we should let this play out and see what xeiron can get for us.

nkirbit's reaction to xeiron's plan is by far the scummiest, increasing the fervor with which he's calling for xeiron's head.  EFHW's reaction reads completely townie to me.

Vote: AHoppy

[Eevee]

I wouldn't be surprised if shraeye was scum btw. Somehow he feels too... friendly?

Maybe I'm just not used to him agreeing with me.   

[ashersky]

I see how I seem overconfident to everyone.  I feel overconfident.  But hey, at least I'm self-aware.

If I'm wrong on EFHW, that'll suck.

For me, here's the way the day goes:

WILL NOT VOTE FOR: ashersky, shraeye, TA, Xeiron, nkirbit
MIGHT VOTE FOR IF CLEARLY ONLY LYNCH: raerae, chairs, Eevee, theorel, ahoppy
WOULD VOTE FOR: mail-mi
PUSHING TO LYNCH: EFHW

So really, my two true scum reads from D1 are EFHW and mail-mi, in that order.

The iffy ones in my list are theorel, chairs and ahoppy for activity and raerae/Eevee for fear.

[EFHW]

See here, where I point out how you cut out damning portions of your own quote to represent yourself in a better light.

No, I really don't.  You cut out where later I said "Ok, I see" because I finally understood what provoked the problem and then I did what I could to explain myself, though it was already a lost battle.

And this is weird, I clicked on the link to the post you cited, and it took me to my post on TA - at the end of which I retracted my scum read.  Did you decide to edit that out?

[Eevee]

ash, why are you afraid of raerae but not shraeye?

[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.12
xeiron (3) nkirbit, raerae, theorel
EFHW (3) ashersky, mail-mi, Eevee
Eevee (1) EFHW
AHoppy (1) shraeye
No Lynch (1) xeiron

Not Voting: (3) AHoppy, Twistedarcher, chairs

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

[ashersky]

See here, where I point out how you cut out damning portions of your own quote to represent yourself in a better light.

No, I really don't.  You cut out where later I said "Ok, I see" because I finally understood what provoked the problem and then I did what I could to explain myself, though it was already a lost battle.

And this is weird, I clicked on the link to the post you cited, and it took me to my post on TA - at the end of which I retracted my scum read.  Did you decide to edit that out?

I just quoted my post, I didn't cut anything.  Your quote inside my quote was the one that had cutting in it.

[EFHW]

I wouldn't be surprised if shraeye was scum btw. Somehow he feels too... friendly?

Maybe I'm just not used to him agreeing with me.   

He doesn't agree with you about me.  But if you are scum, you don't really mean the things you said about me and actually do agree with him.

[ashersky]

ash, why are you afraid of raerae but not shraeye?

Bankers, mostly.

I've been scum with shraeye.  I'm wary of him, for sure, but I have a few things to look for with him.  I'm not giving him (or anyone) a pass for the game, but am for D1.

[ashersky]

I wouldn't be surprised if shraeye was scum btw. Somehow he feels too... friendly?

Maybe I'm just not used to him agreeing with me.   

He doesn't agree with you about me.  But if you are scum, you don't really mean the things you said about me and actually do agree with him.

This is what I mean.

Eevee meant that shraeye agreed with him about Ahoppy.  You turned that around on Eevee.

[shraeye]

or I'd vote for nkirbit as well.  I really think the current EFHW trend is silly.

Ashersky called her out for a "scumslip" that I don't see whatsoever, ash also claimed that EFHW's calm reaction to xeiron's plan is scummy, but that seems really silly.

So normal reactions should be shock, anger, worry, disbelief, suspicion...except from scum, right?  EFHW was way too calm.

I don't get this at all.  Wouldn't scum be the players who react with nitpicking worries, and disbelief.  I think scum is much more likely to be very worried that xeiron's plan will work, and not be as calm.

Also, I think the confusion about the no-lynch business came from people saying earlier that EFHW was staunchly against no-lynch, and then EFHW clearly thought they were talking about this quote:

re: theorel's idea, what if we reverse it.  I say an item I have that is not obviously a great role (I don't say penicillin or shiny badge!) and if you think your item would be a good match, you share it with me.

July 3rd is fine.

No lynch is a bad plan, but could be an ok outcome if we get to deadline and are nowhere.  But does that ever happen?

and explained it.

Then people looked at a different quote and miscommunication happened.

[Eevee]

Ash, you are in hardcore tunnel mode though, and not looking at things objectively. It's clear EFHW is in super scramble mode already, that's just an indication of that.