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[Twistedarcher]

TA, how do you view my EFHW case?

I find her jumping on board to the no-lynch idea interesting. I put it out there mostly in terms of fairness/balance issue, and not because I thought it was the best option (although I felt we should consider it, probably). So her jumping aboard that is sketchy.

I don't think her letting Xeiron run with his idea is that scummy, though. If she's scum, and if Xeiron's town, she knows that Xeiron's plan has merit, and he might very well be correct that he's able to protect from a nightkill. So the idea that she's content to let him live, with the plan of killing him tonight, doesn't really hold water since X is claiming to be able to avoid a kill tonight.

I also don't think she scum slipped earlier.

The one thing I find sketchy is her running with the no-lynch idea. I'll go back and check, but I'm pretty sure she was staunchly against no-lynch before?

[Twistedarcher]

I agree that not sharing items is more likely town than not, as I think scum shares to gain towncred.

On word choice -- I do assume (probably incorrectly) that people choose their words with a specific purpose in mind.  It's possible people just type stuff without caring about the nuances of specific words and phrases.

You would be incorrect, at least in how I write. I go for meaning, not word choice. Don't give a darn about the nuances...

[nkirbit]

I agree that not sharing items is more likely town than not, as I think scum shares to gain towncred.

On word choice -- I do assume (probably incorrectly) that people choose their words with a specific purpose in mind.  It's possible people just type stuff without caring about the nuances of specific words and phrases.

You would be incorrect, at least in how I write. I go for meaning, not word choice. Don't give a darn about the nuances...

But words are how we convey meaning!  I will admit that I'm less careful about it than I should be, but don't find Ash wrong for looking at such things.

[ashersky]

The way I see the Xeiron lynch at this point is basically a D1 claimed PR lynch.

We have a terrible track record of lynching claimed PRs Day 1.  It's a bad call, I think.

[Twistedarcher]

The way I see the Xeiron lynch at this point is basically a D1 claimed PR lynch.

We have a terrible track record of lynching claimed PRs Day 1.  It's a bad call, I think.

But we're all PRs. Is lynching Xeiron worse than allowing him to semi-claim his plan like he has, and run up a wagon on another player and force THEM to claim?

[Twistedarcher]

The main thing giving me pause about Xeiron is Nkirbit's point that how in the world does he have access to that many things. He must be exaggerating SOMEWHERE.

[Twistedarcher]

Chairs, you're the dispenser of the paper. Do you believe Xeiron?

[EFHW]

TA, how do you view my EFHW case?

The one thing I find sketchy is her running with the no-lynch idea. I'll go back and check, but I'm pretty sure she was staunchly against no-lynch before?

I said no lynch was a bad plan but might be an option if we get to deadline with no consensus.  I feel like that's where we are right now.  I somehow didn't realize xeiron's plan depended on no lynch for TWO days, though.  Like chairs, I thought he wanted no lynch b/c he wanted pen and paper for sure.  If he wants more items, maybe he should ask for them now.    For some reason I read it as he is asking not to be lynched himself Day 2, missed the no lynch thing. 

xeiron are you going to be able to tell us more Day 2 to justify no lynching again?  That's more than I think any of us can commit to at this point.

TA is right that Ash's theory about me doesn't make sense.  If I were scum, I wouldn't be counting on being able to kill X tonight.  Also, if I were scum I'd hate the no lynch idea, unless the noose was around my own neck, which it isn't at this point.  It isn't around anyone's neck right now, so I wouldn't even be trying to save a partner.

[EFHW]

I agree that not sharing items is more likely town than not, as I think scum shares to gain towncred.
On word choice -- I do assume (probably incorrectly) that people choose their words with a specific purpose in mind.  It's possible people just type stuff without caring about the nuances of specific words and phrases.

You would be incorrect, at least in how I write. I go for meaning, not word choice. Don't give a darn about the nuances...

But words are how we convey meaning!  I will admit that I'm less careful about it than I should be, but don't find Ash wrong for looking at such things.

I very much value looking at words - I caught Morgrim once through his words, but didn't have the conviction to argue it through (I ended up needing him alive so I could claim to be him, anyway, but that's another story).  It's just in this case there's nothing there.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm struggling to see how Xeiron's plan would require no lynch for two days, and have it be helpful.

If he's trying to identify scum, he would want a smaller pool of people, not a larger pool of people, right?

I just can't imagine how having MORE people alive helps Xeiron to identify scum.

[nkirbit]

I'm struggling to see how Xeiron's plan would require no lynch for two days, and have it be helpful.

If he's trying to identify scum, he would want a smaller pool of people, not a larger pool of people, right?

I just can't imagine how having MORE people alive helps Xeiron to identify scum.

I think his reasoning was that more items were being passed around, which would help town, theoretically.  But he hasn't asked for any specific items past the pen and paper, so I don't see why it matters that much to his plan.

[EFHW]

EFHW, what's your interpretation on the Eevee-Nkirbit interaction? Scum buddies? One scum buddying a town? Friendly townies?

I don't know.  Could be scum buddies, but it reminds me more of Shakespeare and lovers.  Maybe nkirbit knows Eevee is important in some way that Eevee himself is not aware of? 

[ashersky]

Wow, lots to work with here.  I've been around today, but not posting because I was working up an analysis of the Eevee/nkirbit relationship which I will summarize in a little bit.  But first ...

I probably won't make myself more popular with this, but vote: no-lynch
I have given this some thought and I think nolynch is a lot better in this game that most other games.
Nolynch ensure us more powerroles still in the game. Both because of any starting power a lynchée might have and because of the items that could boost the other players. It think the extra information we gain at night by not lynching town could make up for us missing a chance to lynch scum.
Besides I have come up with a plan that i hope can win us(town) this game. I can't tell you the details yet so you would have to trust me on this one. The first step is obviously to no-lynch today.  For the rest to work more smoothly I would like to make an item request.
Could you please send me a pen and some paper during the night?

I believe X is being genuine here.  It sounds like he is planning to get two nights worth of info and to record his findings the second night in case he is nk'd that night.  I say let him do it.  The case on him is pretty weak as it is - just him acting classically "scummy", but nothing compelling.  I agree with TA that with the loss of sb, no lynch may be preferable.  We would probably end up losing 2 townies today.  We've gotten a lot of information even if we don't have wagons.  I think this Day will be useful even if we no lynch.  I do wonder why a no lynch is necessary for x's plan, but I think let's see how it plays out.

See your bolded statement, and compare to:

TA, how do you view my EFHW case?

The one thing I find sketchy is her running with the no-lynch idea. I'll go back and check, but I'm pretty sure she was staunchly against no-lynch before?

I said no lynch was a bad plan but might be an option if we get to deadline with no consensus.  I feel like that's where we are right now.  I somehow didn't realize xeiron's plan depended on no lynch for TWO days, though.  Like chairs, I thought he wanted no lynch b/c he wanted pen and paper for sure.  If he wants more items, maybe he should ask for them now.    For some reason I read it as he is asking not to be lynched himself Day 2, missed the no lynch thing. 

xeiron are you going to be able to tell us more Day 2 to justify no lynching again?  That's more than I think any of us can commit to at this point.

TA is right that Ash's theory about me doesn't make sense.  If I were scum, I wouldn't be counting on being able to kill X tonight.  Also, if I were scum I'd hate the no lynch idea, unless the noose was around my own neck, which it isn't at this point.  It isn't around anyone's neck right now, so I wouldn't even be trying to save a partner.

Tell me how those two things are the same?

[ashersky]

If what Xeiron is claiming is true, he has a way, way more powerful role than my role.  And SB's role.  Remarkably more powerful.

I don't think so.  He maybe has a 1 shot deathproof and some investigative power and a messaging power.  Not bad, but not unheard of.

I said no lynch was a bad plan but might be an option if we get to deadline with no consensus.  I feel like that's where we are right now.  I somehow didn't realize xeiron's plan depended on no lynch for TWO days, though.  Like chairs, I thought he wanted no lynch b/c he wanted pen and paper for sure.  If he wants more items, maybe he should ask for them now.    For some reason I read it as he is asking not to be lynched himself Day 2, missed the no lynch thing. 

xeiron are you going to be able to tell us more Day 2 to justify no lynching again?  That's more than I think any of us can commit to at this point.

The two quotes above are, to me, clear role-fishing when the claiming was already bad.  More scummy behavior.

[EFHW]

The "preferable" now is because we have already lost one towny and chances are we would lose another one.  I think I said that in my post.

[raerae]

Unvote

I believe the claim, SB has no reason to lie if he's /outing. I think it's silly that we have a basically verified town member due to it, but oh well that's the game.

SB also got watcher/tracker confused, I think. No one targeted Raerae last night -- Raerae still very well may have performed actions.

Just catching up and this is the first post to catch my eye.  How can you believe the claim and say it's false in the same breath?

[nkirbit]

Nolynch ensure us more powerroles still in the game. Both because of any starting power a lynchée might have and because of the items that could boost the other players. It think the extra information we gain at night by not lynching town could make up for us missing a chance to lynch scum.

This is what we have from Xeiron when he initially puts forth the no lynch plan.

But Xeiron hasn't asked for any items other than the pen and paper, and as far as we know, already has his plan in motion (should he get his pen and paper, or possibly not).  So why the no lynch??  Does Xeiron not think we can catch scum today?

[ashersky]

The "preferable" now is because we have already lost one towny and chances are we would lose another one.  I think I said that in my post.

Um, okay.  But "I think no-lynch may be preferable now" does NOT equal "no-lynch was a bad plan but might be an option if we get to deadline with no consensus" no matter how you slice them.

[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.11
xeiron (4) shraeye, nkirbit, raerae, theorel
EFHW (1) ashersky
AHoppy (1) Eevee
No Lynch (2)  xeiron, EFHW

Not Voting: (5) AHoppy, Twistedarcher, mail-mi, chairs

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

[Twistedarcher]

Unvote

I believe the claim, SB has no reason to lie if he's /outing. I think it's silly that we have a basically verified town member due to it, but oh well that's the game.

SB also got watcher/tracker confused, I think. No one targeted Raerae last night -- Raerae still very well may have performed actions.

Just catching up and this is the first post to catch my eye.  How can you believe the claim and say it's false in the same breath?

Cause I was right! He said he was tracker, then described his role as being a watcher, (at which point I made the above post) but then actually flipped as a tracker, he was just stating his role incorrectly.

[mail-mi]

re: X's plan: I believe that we let him go through with it (aka give him some pen and paper), but we don't no lynch today.

The no lynch inconsistancy with EFHW is weird, and with the other things ash has put together, I think it's enough for a D1 vote: efhw

[ashersky]

Nolynch ensure us more powerroles still in the game. Both because of any starting power a lynchée might have and because of the items that could boost the other players. It think the extra information we gain at night by not lynching town could make up for us missing a chance to lynch scum.

This is what we have from Xeiron when he initially puts forth the no lynch plan.

But Xeiron hasn't asked for any items other than the pen and paper, and as far as we know, already has his plan in motion (should he get his pen and paper, or possibly not).  So why the no lynch??  Does Xeiron not think we can catch scum today?

No lynch helps scum.  Why?  Because every day we no lynch is a day we didn't kill scum.  It reduces the number of mislynches scum needs to get to win the game.

There's no guarantee that no lynch gets us "more PRs" in the game.  Item PRs depend on getting the right pieces and combination guesses, right?  So no guarantees there.  And then there are the PRs we may or may not have been assigned at game start.

If you are balancing the fact that there are inventions that act as PRs, how do you balance that with actual roles?  Probably by making weaker roles.

Add in the fact that scum can be gaining stuff and inventing stuff and I think the no lynch plan just gets worse and worse.

[nkirbit]

Even if we believe Xeiron is telling the truth, he does have a history of exaggerating his knowledge as town.  In Shakespeare, he claimed to have info that 3 players were non lovers (Sudgy, Eevee, and TA) and everyone else was lovers (EFHW, myself, mail-mi, raerae).  He was 1/7... literally the only one he guessed correctly was TA as non-lover.  So even if you believe he isn't scum, all in on his plan doesn't seem like the wisest move to me.

[Twistedarcher]

Is there a chance we could get the vote counts renumbered to 1.8, 1.9, 1.10, 1.11, rather than 1.8, 1.9, 1.91, 1.92 for future reference? It's really confusing right now.

[EFHW]

I'm not convinced that claiming is bad. In fact, I think we could maybe get some great plans going, but it would involve risk.  I'm sure you will find a way to make this sound scummy, but I'm tempted to say let's go all in and really play this out.