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[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.10
shraeye (1) EFHW
Twistedarcher (1) chairs
xeiron (5) shraeye, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae, theorel
spiritbears (1) Twistedarcher
EFHW (1) ashersky
No Lynch (1)  xeiron

Not Voting: (3) AHoppy, spiritbears, Eevee

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

[Twistedarcher]

Unvote

I believe the claim, SB has no reason to lie if he's /outing. I think it's silly that we have a basically verified town member due to it, but oh well that's the game.

SB also got watcher/tracker confused, I think. No one targeted Raerae last night -- Raerae still very well may have performed actions.

[xeiron]

Xeiron, how much of your plan is based on knowledge, and how much is based on speculation? Can you give us a rough estimate here?

There is both, but mostly speculation. I know this is not what you want to hear so I want to make it clear that I have learned from my mistakes in shakespeare. I am not making the same mistakes again.

And I want to make it clear right from the start. This is not a 100% win plan. I give it 80% chance to catch all scum if we nolynch today and tomorrow. If we lynch as normal it might still work. maybee 20-30%?

1) I am 100% against no-lynch. I would lynch anyone else in the game over no-lynch.

There seems to be a consensus on f.ds that no-lynch is always bad. This is unfortunate and I think we should consider no-lynch more often.

2) I'm not sure about your plan working. Basically, to me, it seems like you'd like to be able to send someone a message tomorrow night, and that telling someone your plan will allow it to work. Here are my misgivings, if you're town:

i) There's the chance of you being nightkilled

No problem. I will or have already taken care of this.

ii) If you are not able to execute this 'plan' yourself, since you need to be able to write someone, are you sure that two people will be able to execute the plan?

No problem. I will or have already taken care of this.

iii) There's the chance that you write scum during the night, give away a LOT of information, and your plan will fail, since you're depending on scum to execute it.

No problem. I will or have already taken care of this.

iv) You simply may be misunderstanding your role, the setup information, your item, combinations, etc. etc. etc. I don't know how you could possibly have enough information to have a plan that will win town the game D1. I know I certainly don't, and I highly doubt that there's a foolproof plan that will win the game. I don't know if you seriously think there is one (you certainly went overboard on the speculation in Shakespeare), but I'm pretty sure that there's no "plan" you could possibly make D1 to hand town a certain win.

I understand my role perfectly. And I cannot win the game D1. If I could, I would fullclaim now and just get done with it.

3) As to whether this makes you scummy...ugh, I don't know. If you ARE scum, giving you pen and paper certainly doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world, provided that all it does is let you send a message (which would seem obvious). But, the real upside for you, is that you survive, and if we let you survive on the basis of this 'plan', you'll survive the lynch tomorrow, as well.

This is either a gambit by scum, or overspeculation by a townmember. Given that we JUST lynched Xeiron D1 for overspeculation as a townmember in a RMM game...I'd lean the second. But he could know this, and is doing the same again now. I don't know, this lessens my read a bit, but I think I'd still lynch Xeiron up against a deadline.

Neither, I would say speculation, but not overspeculation, by a townmember.

[xeiron]

Unvote

I believe the claim, SB has no reason to lie if he's /outing. I think it's silly that we have a basically verified town member due to it, but oh well that's the game.

SB also got watcher/tracker confused, I think. No one targeted Raerae last night -- Raerae still very well may have performed actions.

I believe the claim as well. Theorel can confirm/deny it so there would be no gain in lying.

[Twistedarcher]

So, you KNOW that you cannot be nightkilled, you KNOW that the person you will be writing to is town, and you KNOW that the other person can't be nightkilled?

Can we switch power roles please?

[Twistedarcher]

My main problem with no-lynch is that it severely hinders the ability for wagon analysis, which is one of town's key routes in catching scum.

[nkirbit]

Why did you wait until you were under somewhat serious pressure to make this request?  It's a lot more believable at that point.

And you specifically need a no lynch?

[nkirbit]

It's a lot less believable now, I mean

[Twistedarcher]

Why did you wait until you were under somewhat serious pressure to make this request?  It's a lot more believable at that point.

And you specifically need a no lynch?

Oh, this is a really good point. If he's not under pressure, he doesn't request the pen and paper, and the plan doesn't go through. Why would this plan be dependent on him being close to a lynch?

[theorel]

Unvote

I believe the claim, SB has no reason to lie if he's /outing. I think it's silly that we have a basically verified town member due to it, but oh well that's the game.

SB also got watcher/tracker confused, I think. No one targeted Raerae last night -- Raerae still very well may have performed actions.

I believe the claim as well. Theorel can confirm/deny it so there would be no gain in lying.

Yeah, I can confirm.  And, I guess we can leave it at that?

[xeiron]

Oh, and I think I finally understand my scum-read.  It's not significant, but he basically called me out for not scumhunting, in the midst of a post where I was trying to understand player interactions, due to a calculation that I made.  Meanwhile, he was NOT scumhunting (except arguably by pointing out a supposed scumslip I made).  I understand that different players have different approaches, but his calling me out on it seems insincere given his own lack of any apparent scumhunting, excepting a couple town reads.  He says raerae isn't his strongest scum-read, but I have yet to see a scum-read from him (other than a problem with my post, when I was previously a town-read for him...not sure if I switched to a scum-read, he didn't really specify).  In short, Xeiron seems more interested in challenging others for failing to scumhunt than scumhunting himself.

Vote: Xeiron

I am not calling you out for not scumhuting. I am calling you out for making some assumtions and errors in a calculation that I find scum more likely than town to make. I was unsure how reliable my case was so I brought it up as questions to you, without voting. Your answer made me statisfied that your calculation made sense as town so I dropped it.

[nkirbit]

If SB is a watcher, and he watched Raerae, it should have returned himself at the very least, right?

[xeiron]

Assuming there aren't 18 new pages again, I would be fine with the proposed deadline.  Would lynch TA, X, or chairs.  Seeing as how that chairs lynch just ain't gonna happen, I'm going with X for not voting for a null-read over a scumread. I'm going to bed now.  Then I'm going to work.  Then I'm going to pack.  So, let me just announce to the entire thread that I will be v/la for 18 to 20 hours.  I will update you on bathroom breaks as needed.

Vote: Xeiron

I had and still have no clear scumreads. That is why I did not vote.  This lack of scumreads is part of why I want to no-lynch ( the other part is that it enables more information later in the game)

[Eevee]

Hmm, so we have sb and I think theorel almost confirmed town, this is a huge boon for town, isn't it? Of course they could be not town, but I think for today's purposes we can treat them as such.

I think xeiron is probably town, his plan is too out there for scum. Nkirbit was a town read from earlier, don't see a reason to deviate from that. Don't want to lynch TA, town read and is active and helpful.

Left with raerae and shraeye (both reacted way too strongly when called out for not being here, by the way. it was unreasonable  to do so, but clearly not mean-spirited. a lot has happened in game time with no input from you two), EFHW and ashersky (they have interesting interactions), mail-mi, chairs and Ahoppy.

Should reread Ahoppy, I remember absolutely nothing from him which is a huuge scum tell this late.

[nkirbit]

Assuming there aren't 18 new pages again, I would be fine with the proposed deadline.  Would lynch TA, X, or chairs.  Seeing as how that chairs lynch just ain't gonna happen, I'm going with X for not voting for a null-read over a scumread. I'm going to bed now.  Then I'm going to work.  Then I'm going to pack.  So, let me just announce to the entire thread that I will be v/la for 18 to 20 hours.  I will update you on bathroom breaks as needed.

Vote: Xeiron

I had and still have no clear scumreads. That is why I did not vote.  This lack of scumreads is part of why I want to no-lynch ( the other part is that it enables more information later in the game)

The thing about the no lynch is that everyone else in the town loses information, since we have less flips and less wagons.  It may give you more information since the game goes on longer and apparently your role provides you information, but I'm not sure I'm willing to have one person have all the information that town has, especially when it's a player I find scummy.

[Archetype]

I've been really back and forth on this, but I think it's best for the game as a whole. I'm really sorry that something like this needs to happen, but I believe it's the best course of action to keeping this game running smoothly. If you want to voice any concerns over this, feel free to PM me. Again, really sorry for all alignments, but I want to make sure everyone has a fun and fair game.


spiritbears, one of the company's most favored employees, was going crazy with claustrophobia from being cooped up in the building. "Just let me out!" He would scream, pounding against the front door. As much as people respected it, he'd taken it a bit too far.

Archetype trudged over to him. You want out? Then you're out. He unlocked the front door and shoved spiritbears through it. With a tear in his eye, he watched as spiritbears, otherwise known as John Dolland the Town-aligned Tracker walked away. He has been modkilled.

Day will continue as normal. SB's death does NOT mark the end of the day.

[Twistedarcher]

Well, so he was a tracker, not a watcher. Interesting that Raerae didn't target someone N0.

[Eevee]

Okay.

So, we know raerae targeted no one last night. I don't think that has any bearing with alignments whatsoever, pretty null. Theorel's connection to spirit is interesting, but I think we shouldn't discuss it further. I would assume theorel would have already built a lie confirming him as town if he was scum, I'll leave it at that.

[nkirbit]

2) I'm not sure about your plan working. Basically, to me, it seems like you'd like to be able to send someone a message tomorrow night, and that telling someone your plan will allow it to work. Here are my misgivings, if you're town:

i) There's the chance of you being nightkilled

No problem. I will or have already taken care of this.

Normally, the reason you don't have a cop claim in a game is so that he doesn't immediately get NKed, right?  (Or at the very least roleblocked).  If that isn't an issue here, which Xeiron doesn't seem to think it is, is it reasonable for Xeiron to claim more information to make him claim believable?  I'm sure some people will disagree with me, since they're unilaterally against any sort of claiming, but can someone convince me why it would be a bad idea for Xeiron to claim more?

Don't claim more yet, Xeiron.. I want to hear people's advice on it.

[Twistedarcher]

Assuming there aren't 18 new pages again, I would be fine with the proposed deadline.  Would lynch TA, X, or chairs.  Seeing as how that chairs lynch just ain't gonna happen, I'm going with X for not voting for a null-read over a scumread. I'm going to bed now.  Then I'm going to work.  Then I'm going to pack.  So, let me just announce to the entire thread that I will be v/la for 18 to 20 hours.  I will update you on bathroom breaks as needed.

Vote: Xeiron

I had and still have no clear scumreads. That is why I did not vote.  This lack of scumreads is part of why I want to no-lynch ( the other part is that it enables more information later in the game)

The thing about the no lynch is that everyone else in the town loses information, since we have less flips and less wagons.  It may give you more information since the game goes on longer and apparently your role provides you information, but I'm not sure I'm willing to have one person have all the information that town has, especially when it's a player I find scummy.

So you are confirming for us that Xeiron is town?

[Eevee]

We shouldn't force xeiron into claimming anything.

[Twistedarcher]

I don't think Theorel is in any way confirmed town from that. All he confirmed is that SB gave him an item, right? I mean, SB could have just as easily given scum an item.

[nkirbit]

Assuming there aren't 18 new pages again, I would be fine with the proposed deadline.  Would lynch TA, X, or chairs.  Seeing as how that chairs lynch just ain't gonna happen, I'm going with X for not voting for a null-read over a scumread. I'm going to bed now.  Then I'm going to work.  Then I'm going to pack.  So, let me just announce to the entire thread that I will be v/la for 18 to 20 hours.  I will update you on bathroom breaks as needed.

Vote: Xeiron

I had and still have no clear scumreads. That is why I did not vote.  This lack of scumreads is part of why I want to no-lynch ( the other part is that it enables more information later in the game)

The thing about the no lynch is that everyone else in the town loses information, since we have less flips and less wagons.  It may give you more information since the game goes on longer and apparently your role provides you information, but I'm not sure I'm willing to have one person have all the information that town has, especially when it's a player I find scummy.

So you are confirming for us that Xeiron is town?

No, I don't know that Xeiron is town.  That's why I'm uncomfortable with him having all the information.

If I knew Xeiron was a superpowerful unkillable player who can solve the game in a couple of nights, and I could actually confirm that, I would be all for his plan.  But I don't know that.  I'm saying that if we follow Xeiron's plan, no town other than Xeiron will have much information... therefore Xeiron will have all of town's information.

[nkirbit]

We shouldn't force xeiron into claimming anything.

Why not?

[Twistedarcher]

Nkirbit, I meant it in a "So you have more information on Xeiron's alignment" ie, you're scum kinda way!