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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192311 times)

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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #600 on: June 28, 2013, 12:45:16 am »

(Besides). (You are the...)

Oh and severe---don't worry, I'll hold done that scum read on ash for you
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #601 on: June 28, 2013, 12:48:24 am »

(Besides). (You are the...)

Oh and severe---don't worry, I'll hold done that scum read on ash for you

You always have a scum read on me.  Except when I was scum!
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #602 on: June 28, 2013, 12:48:51 am »

Oh, there is no scum read. There was a brief temptation to OMGUS you, but ultimately I do think it's just us failing to communicate again. Scum ash tends to be nicer to me!

 It's a bit frustrating to have a town read on someone who you think is unreasonably tunneling you, but it is what it is.

No worries.  Time to tunnel mail-mi now.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #603 on: June 28, 2013, 12:50:07 am »

I do admit your tunnels are an asset. Glad I passed the test!
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #604 on: June 28, 2013, 12:52:17 am »

(Besides). (You are the...)

Oh and severe---don't worry, I'll hold done that scum read on ash for you

You always have a scum read on me.  Except when I was scum!
I am never going to live that down ......
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #605 on: June 28, 2013, 01:04:19 am »

(Besides). (You are the...)

Oh and severe---don't worry, I'll hold done that scum read on ash for you

You always have a scum read on me.  Except when I was scum!
I am never going to live that down ......

You'll catch me some day.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #606 on: June 28, 2013, 08:35:15 am »

(Responding to it...it's a ways back, but it's directed towards me, I'll get to the stuff in between later)

So, in the original post at some point while writing it, I had included "assuming 3 scum, Pr(2 randomly selected players are town)~60%".  And this converted to "given any 2 players at random, they are more likely both town than either scum" at some point.
TwistedArcher questioned my "numbers" so I assumed I had actually included the 60% and then explained where it came from (i.e. (10/13)^2).  (this looks really odd now, because I make the first mention of the 60% in that reply)  Anyways, this is why I didn't mention the 3 scum assumption...I had in my mind already made it explicit.  I will make it explicit now at any rate, because it's annoying saying if 3, if 2, if 4 every time.  I'm assuming there are 3 scum in this game or 3 mafia + SK.  SK-hunting is worthless (until late-game), so I will only be looking for the 3 mafia.  Any and all computations will assume 3 mafia, and pretend like they're the only possible scum.

This was a quick and dirty calculation.  As noted, I not only failed to leave myself out of the equation I forgot to not use replacement.  As a quasi-mathematician (I have a degree in math, but don't work in it) the second of those is far FAR more egregious than the first.  The first is a matter of perspective, the second is a matter of accuracy.  To me, the fact I left out the second makes it obvious I wasn't being particular enough to leave out the first.  Actually, I don't see this objectively, if I had said I did (9/12)^2 you would feel better about it?  Because then I was removing myself from the calculation?  I'm doubtful that there are many people that would take the approach of computing the probability of 2 random players being scum that would remove themselves and fail to remove the first town player.  But that's the bit you're objecting to.

Anyways, I think that takes care of your main 2 objections, but I did want to address the "focused about calculating "any 2 players at random", not "EFHW - Shraeye"" part.  The calculation was half-a-sentence in a multi-paragraph post, and I didn't even bother to leave it in there only the result (which is true regardless).  I would hardly say I was focused on calculating anything.  I was focused on interpreting information.  spiritbears' interaction with the efhw-shraeye pairing can be interpreted in two conflicting ways.  One makes him more likely town, the other more likely scum (note: neither is in any manner conclusive).  I needed to choose which interpretation to use, and so used math to decide.

Anyways, I'm moving on from this, because y'know actual scumhunting is more important than this calculation.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #607 on: June 28, 2013, 08:52:59 am »

Alright, so topics of conversation:
twistedArcher-spiritbears: Somebody suggested this is spiritbears' meta.  In this case of argument, twisted seemed to be reasonable, and spirit lost his cool.  It could be that he's nervous about something, or it could be how he is.  Others say it's how he is, I'll take their word for it.

ashersky-eevee: Fun times.  Eevee feels like town-Eevee to me here.  But, I've never played with scum-Eevee...so maybe that's invalid.  I dunno, I have a hard time agreeing with ashersky for whatever reason (this is simply true in general, we just think very differently perhaps).  Anyways, no surprise I don't agree with him here.

ashersky-mail-mi.  The two players that everyone always finds scummy.  I think ashersky has the stronger position here.  But...mail-mi is always scummy.  It's so universal I know it without having played with him.  But, obvious scum is obvious (as opposed to obvious scum is too obvious must be town, for those that haven't heard me use that phrase before).

nkirbit-spiritbears: this is a pointless argument.  It's not even a scum-read for either of you, it's just a statement of perception from one player.

Happy to see Ahoppy, nkirbit, and Eevee participating more.  Even if it means that there were like 3 pages of posts yesterday afternoon while I was away.
I'm hopeful that Ahoppy can catch up, because I think more useful things have been happening more recently than where his post indicates his reading stopped.

I need to look back and see what I didn't remember, then I'll try to adjust reads.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #608 on: June 28, 2013, 09:08:43 am »

@Ahoppy: you asked for opinions on your reads.  But, you have very little clear reads in your summary post.  At the end you note that your reads are so weak you'd be happy to no lynch.

Your reads seem like: 1. raerae likelier town. (ash' constant bringing up of scumminess, breaking up a fight).  2. xeiron slightly scummy (unconcern over lynching PRs).
Is that accurate?  Do you have other reads?  (I think mostly you just need to finish catching up, because several players are starting to distinguish themselves now).
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #609 on: June 28, 2013, 09:10:12 am »

We could use a game plan.  Soft deadline in 4 days?  Where are shraerae, anyway?
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #610 on: June 28, 2013, 09:43:15 am »

Okay, I'm trying to do better at this.  Reads again (from memory this time):
Eevee: 23 (gut-based.  His actual contributions are reading towny, and remind me a bit of when we mislynched him in DS9 for undercontributing.)

ashersky: ? hmm...he's pushing a lot.  Trying to start discussions.  I'll go town-22

Ahoppy: 25.  Very little, but what's there is decent.  He needs to post more, before I can decide.

shraeye: 27. (hard to quantify.  I feel like he's more aggressive this game.  His contributions seem specifically targeted to stir trouble.)

spiritbears: 27.  (Defensiveness is apparently normal, but it does degrade having a town "feel" about him for me.  He seems to be in and around  trouble, which could be happenstance, or it could be scum trying to move towards town lynches.)

efhw: 24. (Why do I feel this way?  Might be the interjection against xeiron on my behalf?)

xeiron: 28.  (Underposting, although I don't know what's normal for him, so this may be invalid.  I'm having difficulty attributing anything to him other than saying that I wasn't scumhunting because of half a sentence in a large post attempting to analyze a situation.)

raerae: 20.  (I'd like to hear more from her.  Of what she's said, she seems simultaneously sarcastic and reasonable, this is what I would expect from town raerae. (caveat I don't know scum raerae))

mail-mi: 26.  (Voting patterns regarding Eevee were weird...trying to temper with "known to seem scummy")

twistedArcher: 22. (He's talking a lot, and encouraging discussion.  Seems townie)

nkirbit: 23.  (hmm...why do I feel this way?  Maybe because he's agreeing with Eevee?  Maybe his feeling attacked over not being on his own?  I dunno)

chairs: 22.  (seems like newer town, having trouble getting into the groove of things, and making random faux-pas.  (also, I don't think his claim was really all that terrible, I mean paper is pretty innocuous as an item))

Hey cool, I remembered everybody.  So, tl;dr:
scum to town
xeiron
shraeye
spiritbears
mail-mi

Ahoppy

efhw
nkirbit
Eevee
ashersky
twistedarcher
chairs
raerae

(I even broke the ties above)
I should vote for someone I suppose...let me check the vote counts and figure out who.

PPE: I thought soft deadline was July 3rd?  (I think 2-3 people liked that date at least, maybe more)
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #611 on: June 28, 2013, 09:44:57 am »

K, I'm going to vote: shraeye, and see where that goes.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #612 on: June 28, 2013, 10:11:48 am »

I'll get my re-reads when I'm not on mobile. But theorel, I find it strange that you put out your scum reads, and then vote for your number 2. Why not your number 1?

spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #613 on: June 28, 2013, 10:20:49 am »

58quote author=ashersky link=topic=8002.msg262828#msg262828 date=1372425012]
We could use a game plan.  Soft deadline in 4 days?  Where are shraerae, anyway?
[/quote]
That sounds good to me
@Theo/ahop
=-I agree with Theo about the incompleteness of your reads ahop. Which is why I asked for more info‰
I think the stuff you pointed out about x is the most interesting
However, your no-lynch ides sortie me...is this not the second time youve brought it up?
I generally disagree withnolynch (reslly as a policy ) fi77tnd it scummy. (Never been scum, so I don't know how I would view it if I wss).. --but since you have time to complete you resds, , perhaps you could address this and explain how it'd not scummy...or maybe you agree it is scummy?
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #614 on: June 28, 2013, 10:26:53 am »

Yep, second no lynch suggestion. All I'm saying is I'm not opposed to it. Is it scummy? Maybe. But I don't want to hamstring us D1 by killing off a potentially key town member. Basically I don't like D1, and I don't get much info out of it. But I'll probably get more once I fully catch up.

theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #615 on: June 28, 2013, 11:22:48 am »

I am as anti no-lynch as it is possible to be.  I will lynch someone I believe to be town at deadline if necessary to get a lynch through.

I do not vote for my strongest scum-read in general.  I use my vote as a tool, and always voting for my strongest scum-read I do not believe to be an effective use of that tool.  In this instance, I think voting for shraeye is better.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #616 on: June 28, 2013, 11:46:52 am »

On Mail-Mi.  Since I didn't remember exactly what Ash was talking about, I went back to look it up.

1.  Mail-Mi voted Eevee for being inactive.  Eevee was pretty inactive at this point.
2.  Ash continues to make jokes like "hahaha I'm such a good watcher I watched myself watch everyone watch me win in mean girls"
3.  Mail-Mi votes Ash, calling it "12% RVS", partly due to the jokes.  Whatever.
4.  Mail-Mi unvotes
5.  Mail-Mi votes Eevee without a reason in the post he votes in.  Eevee had come back and been active by this point.  When questioned about the vote, we see this post:

Why the scumread on me, mail-mi? Just me not posting enough, or something else too?
Not posting enough, and what ash said, and you just feel off this game.

Mail-Mi is later asked why he's still voting Eevee, and we see this:


Mai, why are you still voting severe when he is fully contributing now? 
That was my main reason, unvote.


A little bit different, to be sure.

Mail-Mi, do you no longer think Eevee is "off"?  And why not, if you don't?

No, because he's back from Lurk land and he's looking like good ol' town Eever now.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

mail-mi

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #617 on: June 28, 2013, 11:48:13 am »

Oh, there is no scum read. There was a brief temptation to OMGUS you, but ultimately I do think it's just us failing to communicate again. Scum ash tends to be nicer to me!

 It's a bit frustrating to have a town read on someone who you think is unreasonably tunneling you, but it is what it is.

No worries.  Time to tunnel mail-mi now.
I'll do what I can to prove I'm town. You may begin.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

shraeye

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #618 on: June 28, 2013, 12:02:43 pm »

I'm catching up again.  You all have this nasty habit of putting up like 5 new pages when I'm trying to clear my head.  I'm up to #554 so far, and need to post some of my thoughts thusfar.

Here are two things I agree with.
Okay this has all the makings of a mislynch!

TA, you found sort of a contradiction in spirit's position. Before diving further to the rabbit hole, do you think it's more likely he just got stubborn with a read and carried away when it got questioned or that he is scum and playing in a very obvious way?

The reason I think this case on spirit is indeed weaksauce is that he has no reason to act like that as mafia. This feels a lot like you got so excited you found something that you aren't seeing what it is you found.
I am feeling this way too, especially the last part; this just doesn't seem like behavior that a presence-conscious mafia would put out there.  I think spirit's frustration is extreme, but also genuine.

What do you think about me agreeing with Eevee, ash?

Agreeing with Eevee on what?  He hasn't done anything to agree with.  That's my current issue with Eevee.

This feels like D1 of Mean Girls Eevee.  I think SB made that point, too.
Here, I'm pretty sure that ashersky was using "agreeing with what?" to make a point, because it should have been clear from context that he was talking about agreeing with Eevee regarding TA's position on spiritbears.  At the end of the day, I'm most suspicious of the people who have had minimal presence.  The thing is, everybody is searching for a day1 case that isn't 'weaksauce'.  Generally these are really hard to find, unless scum make serious errors.  So I think scum is most likely to be the set of people making minimal waves, or calculated waves.  There have been counter-examples to this, so when I see something bigger, it's good to have a gauge of how genuine it feels.

But the set of people who have existed, but not memorably (at least to me) is Xeiron, AHoppy, chairs, Eevee, mail-mi.  It's not a question of posting a lot or 'undersposting' based on one's meta.  Eevee is right that he has had much fewer posts in recent games and has been called scummy for 'underposting' a lot.  But still, him disagreeing with Twisted about spirit is the only thing I remember from Eevee.

Eevee gives a set of pro-tips for reading him
Pro tips to reading me: Town Eevee has town reads / disagrees on what's scummy. Scum Eevee has scum reads and pushes cases aggressively. Town Eevee defends people when he thinks the accusations aren't valid. Scum Eevee thinks everything is scummy and tries to get people lynched.
But I don't agree entirely with these.  I'm recalling loudEevee who was town from Mafia Noir, another RMM game.  I always take personal-metas with like 8 grains of salt.  My idea of an Eevee-meta is much more like ashersky says
But yes, smaller presence generally reads as scum Eevee.



So I guess this post ended up being pretty Eevee-related, so I'll throw in Eevee's question to the others:
Nkirbit, high five!

Others, what do we think of this fine gentleman seeming to always be there to agree with me when I make the effort to post?
I don't think too much of it; nkirbit is still nullread for me.  Like Twisted, he has a habit of commenting on everything that's going on, and sometimes he agrees, sometimes he disagrees.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #619 on: June 28, 2013, 12:22:24 pm »

Now some stuff about ash-raerae and shraeye/TA stuff from earlier:

What I noticed earlier was that there were a lot of reactions to ashersky's position on raerae, but very few people (Twisted, and then when I went back to check, I see that EFHW was the only other person who commented on it) paid any attention to my vote.  I theorized before that if raerae/TA were 1scum 1 town, then scum would have made sure that equal attention was paid to both votes, so that they weren't seen as 'defending a partner' or 'distracting from the lynch'.  In my opinion, scum tend to try to fall on separate sides of an argument, so that there is maximum dissension and confusion felt in the thread.  So it still seems reasonable to see them as being of the same alignment.

So now I want to focus on the reactions to ahsersky's vote.  I agree with nkirbit that two of the scummiest reactions were from mail-mi/xeiron
The "obviously scummy" reactions are from mail-mi and Xeiron.  Xeiron sheeped onto the case for very, very weak reasons.   Another player *may* be town and *may* have insinuated that they *may* have information about another player?  And mail-mi votes for ash for bringing up a case without a good reason (in mail-mi's defense, Ash did do this).  I'm not overly concerned with either of these reactions, though.  If there were two players I would guess appearing obviously scummy in a case like this despite being town, it might just be those two.
Links to their reactions:


I think it was apparent that ashersky's vote was something beyond normal "tunnelvision" that mailmi votes ash for.  Also xeiron's tongue-in-cheek joke about it being a "compelling case" adds jokiness to his already scummy sheeping.


However, nkirbit misses spiritbears reaction to ash's vote.
I really don't agree with the no lynch idea.  But I don't fins you totally scummy for bringing it up.  It's just not helpful I think
Ash--very scummy tunneling Rae Rae...and yes, trying to paint her legitimate position as overly scummy is just scummy imo. My ash vote turned out to be s good one...sticking with this one
I don't have a scumread on either of those players right now (nkirbit is null, and sb is town), but if eitehr were to flip scum, it's important to remember what players had odd connections to eachother.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #620 on: June 28, 2013, 12:26:19 pm »

X looks scummy for his analysis of Theorel's math - he says right there in the post why he didn't remove himself.  Maybe xeiron didn't read carefully?
I wasn't removing myself, nor was I removing the first town player (i.e. I was just doing (10/13)^2).  The second one of those is obviously terrible. The first is arguable (it's not using all information available to me/any town player, but it is still an accurate calculation for an impartial observer).
I just noticed this post by Theorel, and I have some problems with it.
1. I wasn't removing myself, nor was I removing the first town player . The fact that you forgot to remove yourself makes me wonder if you do not automaticly see yourself as town.
2. (i.e. I was just doing (10/13)^2). How do you know for sure that there is exactly three scum?
I agree with this, and didn't pick up that theorel had put the reason right into his calculation post.  I initially was just going to inform xeiron, that theorel is very calculating like this and likes for his calculations to come from an impartial position.  But xeiron jumping on theorel without even fully reading the post really doesn't look good.

Vote: xeiron

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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #621 on: June 28, 2013, 12:47:22 pm »

Now some stuff about ash-raerae and shraeye/TA stuff from earlier:
What I noticed earlier was that there were a lot of reactions to ashersky's position on raerae, but very few people (Twisted, and then when I went back to check, I see that EFHW was the only other person who commented on it) paid any attention to my vote.  I theorized before that if raerae/TA were 1scum 1 town, then scum would have made sure that equal attention was paid to both votes, so that they weren't seen as 'defending a partner' or 'distracting from the lynch'.  In my opinion, scum tend to try to fall on separate sides of an argument, so that there is maximum dissension and confusion felt in the thread.  So it still seems reasonable to see them as being of the same alignment.

So now I want to focus on the reactions to ahsersky's vote.  I agree with nkirbit that two of the scummiest reactions were from mail-mi/xeiron...  I think it was apparent that ashersky's vote was something beyond normal "tunnelvision" that mailmi votes ash for.  Also xeiron's tongue-in-cheek joke about it being a "compelling case" adds jokiness to his already scummy sheeping.

However, nkirbit misses spiritbears reaction to ash's vote....
I don't have a scumread on either of those players right now (nkirbit is null, and sb is town), but if eitehr were to flip scum, it's important to remember what players had odd connections to eachother.

I'm finding myself thinking I should hold back re: reactions to Shraeye, but that also seems like a very bad idea.  So I'm going to say what I think.  I feel like this post is quite a bit less substantial than it is presented to be, and therefore it seems scummy.  I am also going to say why. 

The first part doesn't say anything new from the last time he made the point about TA and raerae.
I also disagree with the logic, which could mean we just disagree but it feels like it could be a "pseudo-argument" designed to link TA with raerae as town (or raerae with TA). 

The part about Ash, X and mail-mi also doesn't say anything new, except he interprets X's "compelling case" as jokey but doesn't say what he thinks that would imply. 

I also don't follow the point about sb and nkirbit.  nkirbit was listing scummy reactions to Ash, and unless I'm missing something, sb's reaction doesn't seem scummy.  And what connections are you pointing out to remember for later?
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shraeye

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #622 on: June 28, 2013, 12:49:59 pm »

Stop speculating about set up information!  Ahoppy, your post provided me with info I didn't have before I read it, and we shouldn't be making posts like these.  They leak info!  I'm probably leaking info right now!

If we want to claim, so be it, but I think we should stop talking about theory until we make that decision, because otherwise we're just going to be unknowingly leaking a steady stream of info.
This is something I think scum would very rarely think of saying, so a town read on nkirbit!

Which part?  I'm not accusing nkirbit, but this also seems like a really easy way to seem like town.
I agree with EfHW again here.  something like this is a really easy thing to post and 'seem townie'.  Yuma is famous for making pro-town suggestions as scum.

Unrelated thought #2
Why aren't you approaching everything from a "hmm, could this be true if {insert player here} perspective"?  The only thing I know is I am town.  I have to suspect everyone else.  I just happen to know you well when you are scum.
Also, this is a really good scumhunting tactic, especially if you consider players as both town/scum.  I'm reading pot-stirring, hardworking ashersky as town.

Unrelated thought #3
We could use a game plan.  Soft deadline in 4 days?  Where are shraerae, anyway?
As raerae pointed out before, we are V/LA with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8.  Right now her house is filled with boxes for the moving.  Hectic lives=less availability.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #623 on: June 28, 2013, 12:54:59 pm »

This may not have been the case, I just remember from my read-through, I can remember ash's firm stance on raerae, but I can't remember shraeye even saying anything about TA.  That tells me he did not make his case very prominent (or not as prominent as TA).  So this make me think that raerae is town.  Scum could easily have jumped on shraeye's TA claim and tried to take some heat off of raerae, but they didn't.  now, I'm not sure about the cred buying by scum.  This early in the game?  I'm not sure.  So I'm not throwing out the idea that TA is scum, but I do think raerae is town off of this
Ah, I reread through that section, and you are right here.  I was remembering my vote on TA and the stuff around it as being more prominent, but probably because I was the one who wrote it.  Looking back, ashersky's really did pop out more than mine on TA.  But again, if raerae were scum, her partners could have jumped over to give more attention to Twisted's case (really whether or not he was scum, I'm thinking...it would be better to have attention spread amongt your scum partners than focusing it all on one of them).  So i think raerae is more likely to be town based on these interactions.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #624 on: June 28, 2013, 01:00:07 pm »

The first part doesn't say anything new from the last time he made the point about TA and raerae.
I also disagree with the logic, which could mean we just disagree but it feels like it could be a "pseudo-argument" designed to link TA with raerae as town (or raerae with TA). 

The part about Ash, X and mail-mi also doesn't say anything new, except he interprets X's "compelling case" as jokey but doesn't say what he thinks that would imply. 

I also don't follow the point about sb and nkirbit.  nkirbit was listing scummy reactions to Ash, and unless I'm missing something, sb's reaction doesn't seem scummy.  And what connections are you pointing out to remember for later?
It didn't say anything new regarding attention to TA/raerae, because at that time, nobody had commented on anything.  Right after typing thoses posts, I kept reading through the thread, starting with AHoppy's #555, which is the first time I saw anybody else consider that point.  As I said above, I think his interpretation of it is more accurate.

I find tension-breaking jokes to be scummy, I thought that was clear from context.

I think nkirbit was mentioning people who didn't react to ash/raerae at all in that paragraph of his post.

Connections are very important to remember, because recently there has been a lot of terrible lynches (on day2,3,etc) that I think are predicated on "what is happening scummy right now"-mentality, instead of "hey we lynched this one mafia member, let's look to see who had odd interactions with him"-mentality.  I htink the latter mentality is much better, and that we have been drifting away from it since the days when i started mafia here back around Mafia IX.
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