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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192335 times)

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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #550 on: June 27, 2013, 10:19:54 pm »

I mean, maybe I'm pushing the case on Eevee.  But it's all we're really got for now, and it makes for good discussion.

mail-mi's sheeping was scummy, for sure, but I'm starting to come around to the "that's just mail-mi" thing.

It's not like anyone's in danger of getting lynched right now.  We're talking, pushing suspicions, etc.  I do that with votes, others might not.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #551 on: June 27, 2013, 10:23:34 pm »

yay new voices!

I think sb is town.  I don't think Ashersky is at all convinced that Eevee is scum.  I think TA probably is scum, I'm sad to say. 

X looks scummy for his analysis of Theorel's math - he says right there in the post why he didn't remove himself.  Maybe xeiron didn't read carefully?
I wasn't removing myself, nor was I removing the first town player (i.e. I was just doing (10/13)^2).  The second one of those is obviously terrible. The first is arguable (it's not using all information available to me/any town player, but it is still an accurate calculation for an impartial observer).
I just noticed this post by Theorel, and I have some problems with it.
1. I wasn't removing myself, nor was I removing the first town player . The fact that you forgot to remove yourself makes me wonder if you do not automaticly see yourself as town.
2. (i.e. I was just doing (10/13)^2). How do you know for sure that there is exactly three scum?

mail-mi seems scummy as usual.  This meta will work out well for him whenever he is scum, if he isn't now.  Or if he's not scum now maybe he'll seem less scummy when he is. 

nkirbit seems his usual self, as does Eevee.

Chairs is v/la, Ahoppy hasn't been back.  We haven't heard from raerae or shraeye or theorel much today.  So nothing new to say there.


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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #552 on: June 27, 2013, 10:29:23 pm »

What do you think of Ashersky, EFHW?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #553 on: June 27, 2013, 10:35:08 pm »

Right now I think he's town.  Usually I'm tormented by thinking he's scum and knowing he probably isn't, so I'm not sure what my town read on him means! 
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #554 on: June 27, 2013, 10:44:56 pm »

Alright, so re-reading here's what I got:
Not much.

Most of what has happened has been theory talk that I have a hard time getting any scum-hunting material out of.  Then comes ash calling out raerae, and shareye calling out TA.  One of these two gets much more attention than the other one: Ash's claim on raerae.  Shareye brings this up in post #394.  He claims that
And then the raerae/ash thing really took off; people were begging ash to say why, people were joining his wagon, voting for ash because he was being bull-headed, and all that jazz.  But I recall only Twisted asking with any persistence about my vote on him.

If one of our "cases" was on scum, and one on town, I think I'd expect a bit more activity regarding both of the votes.  If scum found their partner getting too much attention, they'd bring up the other person.  And if scum saw everyone piling on the town-wagon, they'd focus on their partner and try to buy some cred that way.

The way the reactions fell, it seems more possible that raerae/TA are of the same alignment.

now, I think the reason only TA asked about shraeye's case on him was that it was about TA, and shraeye didn't really push his case.  As I recall, ash hinted about information on raerae in about every other post he made (and he made quite a few).  Shraeye, mentions it once and doesn't bring it up much after that.  This may not have been the case, I just remember from my read-through, I can remember ash's firm stance on raerae, but I can't remember shraeye even saying anything about TA.  That tells me he did not make his case very prominent (or not as prominent as TA).  So this make me think that raerae is town.  Scum could easily have jumped on shraeye's TA claim and tried to take some heat off of raerae, but they didn't.  now, I'm not sure about the cred buying by scum.  This early in the game?  I'm not sure.  So I'm not throwing out the idea that TA is scum, but I do think raerae is town off of this

Something quite concerning that I saw that nobody picked up on was something to do with xerion:
I fail to see how I put Ashersky in a bad spot. Yes, He might be a PR, but since this is role madness there should be no shortage of power roles. If he has an investigative role and already know raerae is scum, I do think he should claim so sometime during D1. If he don't, and we lynch raerae based on softclaims/cases from Ashersky and she flips town, we won't know if he is scum or just mistaken town. Remember that in his exemple he flipped the alignments. Had we lynched mcmc in that game without ash needing to claim, we wouldn't have caught him(ash) as scum.
My general belief if to DO claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you do not have to, if you caught scum. We probably have one or more doctor/protection role so it is not instant death to claim cop.

I did point it out because it is the among the most interesting things I have found in this game by now, because it might mean Ashersky is building up for a claim. If he is, that claim may be a fake, just as likely as a real one. Ashersky just had huge success with preparing for and then fakeclaimimg as scum. He would probably consider doing something like that again.
He says this like it's no big deal if we lynch a PR.  It still is, especially if it's a super powerful role like cop or doctor.  Additionally, EFHW brought up at some point that most of our roles are probably going to be 1-shot based on the fact that we can create our own PR's.  People thought this meant that our PR's we create are going to be 1-shot.  While this makes a lot of sense, I think it's more important to note that most of our initial PR's are probably 1-shot.  If we're able to give ourselves a PR every night, I feel like an unlimited PR would be way OP.  This being said, if ash is an investigative role, I'm not sure he would use up his 1 shot night 0.  This also includes losing whatever item(s) ash is capable of giving away.  Long story short, I don't like how unconcerned xerion is with a mislynch. 

Thinking about it, so far, I'm not getting very strong reads on anyone.  so for me at this moment, I'm not ready to lynch anyone.  If I had to lynch anyone right now, I don't think I could.  I would vote no-lynch right now if it was the deadline.  But it isn't so I'll give it more time.  I didn't quite get up to the point of spiritbears meltdown (if I can call it that).  i kinda skimmed it and don't really know the details, but from what I remember from my quick read of it is that ti seems like town spiritbears.  From mean girls, when spiritbears is under pressure he doesn't get too happy.  He seems all towny and stuff until you try to call him out then he gets very defensive.  normally I'd see that as scummy, but the spiritbears meta I saw in mean girls disagrees.  I want to read more, but I wanted to get my current thoughts out there.  I'll do more tomorrow (or possibly tonight, we'll see)

By the way:  I'm also going to have limited access from saturday to saturday next week.  I'll be traveling both saturdays and won't have much access those days, but I should have more access during the week.  Thanks!

PPE: Regarding my post bloating with theory talk:  I'm sorry, that's just who I am.  I can grasp theory and it's easier for me to discuss.  I'm not that great at reading people.  Especially day 1 when there really isn't that much to go on.  It's not that interesting to me.  Later, once I have more information to go on I can contribute more fully.  I know, nobody likes this, but I just find D1 just so hard to go on.  so much hand waving and pointing fingers with very very little evidence.  It seems mostly about meta and past experience.  Neither of which I have.

nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #555 on: June 27, 2013, 11:31:47 pm »

Stop speculating about set up information!  Ahoppy, your post provided me with info I didn't have before I read it, and we shouldn't be making posts like these.  They leak info!  I'm probably leaking info right now!

If we want to claim, so be it, but I think we should stop talking about theory until we make that decision, because otherwise we're just going to be unknowingly leaking a steady stream of info.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #556 on: June 27, 2013, 11:38:43 pm »

Stop speculating about set up information!  Ahoppy, your post provided me with info I didn't have before I read it, and we shouldn't be making posts like these.  They leak info!  I'm probably leaking info right now!

If we want to claim, so be it, but I think we should stop talking about theory until we make that decision, because otherwise we're just going to be unknowingly leaking a steady stream of info.
This is something I think scum would very rarely think of saying, so a town read on nkirbit!
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #557 on: June 27, 2013, 11:42:18 pm »

Stop speculating about set up information!  Ahoppy, your post provided me with info I didn't have before I read it, and we shouldn't be making posts like these.  They leak info!  I'm probably leaking info right now!

If we want to claim, so be it, but I think we should stop talking about theory until we make that decision, because otherwise we're just going to be unknowingly leaking a steady stream of info.
This is something I think scum would very rarely think of saying, so a town read on nkirbit!

Which part?  I'm not accusing nkirbit, but this also seems like a really easy way to seem like town.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #558 on: June 27, 2013, 11:43:30 pm »

Stop speculating about set up information!  Ahoppy, your post provided me with info I didn't have before I read it, and we shouldn't be making posts like these. They leak info!  I'm probably leaking info right now!

If we want to claim, so be it, but I think we should stop talking about theory until we make that decision, because otherwise we're just going to be unknowingly leaking a steady stream of info.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #559 on: June 27, 2013, 11:44:04 pm »

I don't think it's really easy at all, I didn't even realize there was any new info, so it certainly isn't obvious.
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #560 on: June 27, 2013, 11:53:00 pm »

I don't think it's really easy at all, I didn't even realize there was any new info, so it certainly isn't obvious.
I don't believe there is any nee info there....
If there's one thing nk does is try and sound like he's always on the majority side....don't ever expect him to take a hard or independent stand
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #561 on: June 27, 2013, 11:55:02 pm »

I don't think it's really easy at all, I didn't even realize there was any new info, so it certainly isn't obvious.
I don't believe there is any nee info there....
If there's one thing nk does is try and sound like he's always on the majority side....don't ever expect him to take a hard or independent stand

Can you back that up?  Because I just think that's not true.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #562 on: June 27, 2013, 11:55:43 pm »

I don't think it's really easy at all, I didn't even realize there was any new info, so it certainly isn't obvious.
I don't believe there is any nee info there....
If there's one thing nk does is try and sound like he's always on the majority side....don't ever expect him to take a hard or independent stand

Can you back that up?  Because I just think that's not true.
I haven't noticed anything like that either, just a noticeable amount of agreeing with me.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #563 on: June 27, 2013, 11:57:31 pm »

Well, twice.  And one of those statements was that mail-mi regularly comes off as scummy, which is one of the least controversial positions possible.
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #564 on: June 27, 2013, 11:59:45 pm »

I don't think it's really easy at all, I didn't even realize there was any new info, so it certainly isn't obvious.
I don't believe there is any nee info there....
If there's one thing nk does is try and sound like he's always on the majority side....don't ever expect him to take a hard or independent stand

Can you back that up?  Because I just think that's not true.
Just this game....name one read that you were in the minority on?  Can you name even one time you took an unpopular stand?...in the other game you were just mislynched in it was caused by your refusal to buck the majority...even when they wanted to lunch you! I really think it's a hallmark of your play...which puts you in a safe position usually...but not always
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #565 on: June 28, 2013, 12:00:58 am »

Vote Count 1.6

raerae (1)  xeiron
shraeye (1)  EFHW
chairs (1) raerae
Eevee (2) ashersky, mail-mi
Twistedarcher (1) spiritbears

Not Voting: (7) Eevee, AHoppy, theorel, nkirbit, chairs, shraeye, Twistedarcher.


Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #566 on: June 28, 2013, 12:02:23 am »

Mai, why are you still voting severe when he is fully contributing now? 
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #567 on: June 28, 2013, 12:02:56 am »

I was in the minority for finding information in Ahoppy's post.  I don't even have to go back 10 posts to answer that question.

I'm not going to comment on B2B, but I disagree with that as well.
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #568 on: June 28, 2013, 12:04:40 am »

I was in the minority for finding information in Ahoppy's post.  I don't even have to go back 10 posts to answer that question.

I'm not going to comment on B2B, but I disagree with that as well.
That's a "hard" or "independent" stand???
This is why we don't understand each other...
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #569 on: June 28, 2013, 12:04:51 am »

I don't think it's really easy at all, I didn't even realize there was any new info, so it certainly isn't obvious.
I don't believe there is any nee info there....
If there's one thing nk does is try and sound like he's always on the majority side....don't ever expect him to take a hard or independent stand

Can you back that up?  Because I just think that's not true.
Just this game....name one read that you were in the minority on?  Can you name even one time you took an unpopular stand?...in the other game you were just mislynched in it was caused by your refusal to buck the majority...even when they wanted to lunch you! I really think it's a hallmark of your play...which puts you in a safe position usually...but not always
also, he has been strangely silent in this game.  I haven't read the other game(s) he has played in other than mean girls, but in mean girls, he was quite vocal D1.  He did some good scumhunting work (as I recall) and here, he's been absent.  so what's up?

AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #570 on: June 28, 2013, 12:06:27 am »

Besides, there was no new information in my post.  I pieced together information I had gathered from earlier posts.  And read EFHW's post from a different angle.  An angle I think makes more sense.  What in my post do you think was "new"?

nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #571 on: June 28, 2013, 12:06:59 am »

I was quite lurky early in this game because I was up against the wall for most of B2B while this game was going on, and the game here had devolved into theory discussion that was mostly uninteresting to me.  Now I'm done with that game, and this game has moved onto case-making, so I'm more active!

And boy I wish I could talk about B2B!
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #572 on: June 28, 2013, 12:08:02 am »

I'm not sure he's been absent.  I don't think that's quite fair....probably the huge chunks of theory talk bury his contributions. Which I think have been on par...
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #573 on: June 28, 2013, 12:08:54 am »

Besides, there was no new information in my post.  I pieced together information I had gathered from earlier posts.  And read EFHW's post from a different angle.  An angle I think makes more sense.  What in my post do you think was "new"?

It's not groundbreaking info or anything.  And I'm going to decline pointing it out, because I don't think we should be talking about it.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #574 on: June 28, 2013, 12:11:43 am »

Well, twice.  And one of those statements was that mail-mi regularly comes off as scummy, which is one of the least controversial positions possible.
Well gee thanks  ::) :D

Mai, why are you still voting severe when he is fully contributing now? 
That was my main reason, unvote.

I'm not sure he's been absent.  I don't think that's quite fair....probably the huge chunks of theory talk bury his contributions. Which I think have been on par...

Wait what? Weren't you just pushing a bit on nkirbit?
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon
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