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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192209 times)

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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #350 on: June 25, 2013, 08:45:52 pm »

Quote from: ashersky link=topic=8002.msg261713#msg261713
Right, sorry.  For what it's worth, I think that matches your scum meta (MnM and Shakespeare).
Which?  Sensitivity?  Trust me, it's my everyday meta.

Nope, the actual response you quoted.  Sensitivity is a null tell.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #351 on: June 25, 2013, 08:54:50 pm »

Quote from: ashersky link=topic=8002.msg261713#msg261713
Right, sorry.  For what it's worth, I think that matches your scum meta (MnM and Shakespeare).
Which?  Sensitivity?  Trust me, it's my everyday meta.

Nope, the actual response you quoted.  Sensitivity is a null tell.
I don't about that meta thing.  Half the time I forgot I was scum in Shakespeare, especially in the beginning.  Remember I was upset for a moment when Liopoil and X turned out to both be town?

But anyway, have you weighed in on whether and specifically how to try to optimize item sharing?  I know you said to spread them around, which I agree about.

What's your impression of TA?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #352 on: June 25, 2013, 08:56:24 pm »

Quote from: ashersky link=topic=8002.msg261713#msg261713
Right, sorry.  For what it's worth, I think that matches your scum meta (MnM and Shakespeare).
Which?  Sensitivity?  Trust me, it's my everyday meta.

Nope, the actual response you quoted.  Sensitivity is a null tell.
I don't about that meta thing.  Half the time I forgot I was scum in Shakespeare, especially in the beginning.  Remember I was upset for a moment when Liopoil and X turned out to both be town?

But anyway, have you weighed in on whether and specifically how to try to optimize item sharing?  I know you said to spread them around, which I agree about.

What's your impression of TA?

I think that optimizing the sharing of items is a fool's errand.  Without knowing specific combinations for specific roles, it's just a crapshoot anyway.  I prefer that each person choose who to share with based on their own reads.

TA is on the scummy side.  He reminds me of Winterspartan in Samurai and Ninjas.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #353 on: June 25, 2013, 09:05:34 pm »

Thanks for your answer, but I disagree re: fool's errand.  UNLESS Archetype has made it that each item could interact with many of the others to make several different powers. 

It's a problem that Chairs has claimed b/c now he will be a target if he is the only one.  Do we leave him to his fate and hope he gets protected?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #354 on: June 25, 2013, 09:07:27 pm »

How much do you want to bet scum get at least one item from their victim's inventories?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #355 on: June 25, 2013, 09:18:02 pm »

Thanks for your answer, but I disagree re: fool's errand.  UNLESS Archetype has made it that each item could interact with many of the others to make several different powers. 

It's a problem that Chairs has claimed b/c now he will be a target if he is the only one.  Do we leave him to his fate and hope he gets protected?

Well, if paper is an indication, my guess is a pool of simple items which can be combined into greater items.  Like crafting in WoW.

So it is possible that paper is an ingredient in multiple recipes.

Why is Chairs a target?  What if he's scum?  Why not leave him alive for WIFOM if he's town?  What if paper is crappy? 
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #356 on: June 25, 2013, 09:18:15 pm »

How much do you want to bet scum get at least one item from their victim's inventories?

Possible, but not mentioned in the OPs.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #357 on: June 25, 2013, 09:18:59 pm »

Re: scum-hunting, I had a thought about Shraeye.  In Pirates he got a bee in his bonnet about TA and TA ended up getting mislynched.  Now he is presenting a weak case on TA.  I don't think Shraeye actually has some deep-seated animus towards TA, which means either 1) he is bussing or 2) he thinks it really is a good case, or 3) he is scum trying to get a townie mislynched.  After Pirates I'd think he would pick someone else to try to drive a mislynch through on and I don't really think he thinks it's a good case, which leaves me with 1.  Which suggests they are both scum.

This is the strongest bit of evidence I've seen so far re: finding scum.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #358 on: June 25, 2013, 09:21:15 pm »

Thanks for your answer, but I disagree re: fool's errand.  UNLESS Archetype has made it that each item could interact with many of the others to make several different powers. 

It's a problem that Chairs has claimed b/c now he will be a target if he is the only one.  Do we leave him to his fate and hope he gets protected?

Why is Chairs a target?  What if he's scum?  Why not leave him alive for WIFOM if he's town?  What if paper is crappy?
It's kind of my fault, but now someone with something that goes great with paper will send it to him and scum will target him to prevent him getting something good. 

Now, he could be scum trying to stimulate more claiming.  That is true.  Maybe he doesn't even have paper.  It would be a good tactic, actually.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #359 on: June 25, 2013, 09:27:12 pm »

Here's Shraeye's case on TA, for easy reference.

Here are the reasons that made me vote Twisted before:
Posts #92/#93
given that we actually had a N0, we should be able to skip RVS -- RVS is silly, anyways
And I'm 100% against claiming ANY combinations at this point.
Two things here jumped out at me, and those are the two things I left in the quote. First, Twisted says that we should be able to skip RVS because we've had a night.  But unless people come out and immediately claim some night-result, we really don't get to skip the standard start-up.  Even if somebody found scum N0, they have to wait for the thread to fill up with posts and such, so they can build a case on their target.  Otherwise, it will be immediately obvious that the person is a PR, and it would be akin to role claiming.  And that's something you said you were against. (Not just claiming combinations, but in post #95, you say you completely agree with raerae's idea of not claiming anything).

The second thing that jumped out at me was that you stated a very staunch opinion on claiming combinations, and then IMMEDIATELY toned it down in post #93.  This put you on my suspicion radar, and I kept a closer watch on your next few posts.
More important point:
Guys, this is clearly a town-on-town argument. Just because mail-mi's really,really,really, extremely wrong doesn't make him scummy!
This was in response to mail-mi and raerae's joke about claiming that ham is good.  This is fun and silly, and a perfectly good way to start a game, but I don't like spending tons of time just joking around and cluttering up the thread.  Twisted's response to this quick exchange really stands out because, REMEMBER, he said that he hates silly RVS.  That makes this post nothing more than a distraction, and it clutters up our thread.  People can recall in the MeanGirls Mod QT, that I was consistently pointing out that long cluttered threads really only help scum, because nobody ever wants to do a reread.

Last item:
Btw, I do understand that position Raerae. I guess we disagree on how potentially useful it can be, but that's a minor enough point.
I don't get this, Twisted says that he understands raerae's position on theory talk (which is post #98 by her), but disagrees with how useful it is.  "The uselessness of theory talk" IS raerae's position.  You can't simultaneously agree with her but disagree with her main point.  This post is just pure appeasement.
Eevee's been quiet for him, so that's a little suspicious. There just hasn't been anything that's really stuck out at me so far, though.
Yes, Eevee had only posted 3 times in the first 24 hours of the game.  THAT's definitely a reasonable reason to find him suspicious.  Sometime, you gotta realize that people get busy.  That's just life.
Yeah, I think RVS is silly and then made an RVS post. So what? If you're building a case on that, I can't really defend it. I do thing it's odd that this is your more important point, though, rather than the first point you made. Building a case out of RVS is just silly, once again. If you're going to build a case on someone for RVS, I have no idea why you're starting with me -- I'm sure there's a half-dozen people who had more RVS posts in this thread than I did.

I understood where Raerae was coming from, and disagreed that it can sometimes be useful. But I saw where her argument was coming from. I disagree on her main point but understand where she's coming from. Call it pure appeasement, if you want, but I think you're building a case out of nothing here.
Yes, it's true that there's probably half-dozen people who have more RVS posts than you, ,but they aren't on the record as hating RVS.  I made the points in the order I did, because I was discussing issues in the order they came up in  (i.e., #92/93 is before your joke-post, which was before your appeasement-post).

Appeasement is exactly what I call it, and that sort of please-everyone attitude is something scum takes more often than town I find...see ashersky's abrasiveness for the flipside.  Scum players are too afraid to be that in your face.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #360 on: June 25, 2013, 09:31:51 pm »

4).  Shraeye could be content to post a weak case as though it is strong b/c it is day one and all we have so far.  I'm not sure what I think of this option, but thought I should add it to be fair.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #361 on: June 25, 2013, 09:34:44 pm »

Ash, I'm not getting your scummy read on EFHW. I think it's easy to say things like "EFHW seems like she did in Masons and Monks", "TA seems like WS did in Samurai", etc. Without bringing up actual quotations, it means nothing to me -- if you're going to convince me EFHW is scum, I'd want more solid reasons, other than "she just seems the same". I understand that a lot of it is feel, but I hate these arguments relating to specific games, and I think it's a more likely argument to come from scum than from town. It's an argument without much solid backing, but one that you can't really get called out on, since it's an interpretation of metas and playstyles, and not an interpretation of solid evidence.

I also think that Ash is playing up his fake claim from Mean Girls a little too much for my liking. That's now several references to it -- I think he trying to get into peoples' heads more than anything else by playing it up. Whether or not that's along the lines of a "Man, there's no way he'd do something like that TWO games in a row", or something else, I don't know, but I don't like that he just brought it up again recently.

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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #362 on: June 25, 2013, 09:36:52 pm »

As soon as I read Shraeye's case, I knew he wasn't pushing it as a real case, or at least that he didn't think I was as scummy as he claimed I was -- he's smarter than that. Sure, he may have some inclination, but the stuff he pushed on me was not a real case. I assumed he was more than likely trying to get a reaction, similar to what he did in D1 of Pirates with his case on EFHW.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #363 on: June 25, 2013, 09:39:42 pm »

Chairs shouldn't have claimed, but I don't know if it makes him a NK target. Obviously it gives scum more information, but what's done is done, I suppose. I actually think it reads towny -- if he's scum, I'm sure his partners would have coached him up somewhat in QT re:claiming, and he'd be more careful to not throw a claim out there while there's opposition to it.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #364 on: June 25, 2013, 09:41:22 pm »

Ok, I was just about to ask Xeiron why he sheeped Ashersky,'s vote on Raerae, but looking back it seems that he thought Ash was fakeclaiming a result on Raerae. That's still weird, and I think it's odd that he picked up on the wagon when no else did, so slight scum read when that's combined with the lurking. Get in here, Xeiron!
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #365 on: June 25, 2013, 09:41:48 pm »

As soon as I read Shraeye's case, I knew he wasn't pushing it as a real case, or at least that he didn't think I was as scummy as he claimed I was -- he's smarter than that. Sure, he may have some inclination, but the stuff he pushed on me was not a real case. I assumed he was more than likely trying to get a reaction, similar to what he did in D1 of Pirates with his case on EFHW.

It makes sense that he wouldn't think it was a real case.  But in Pirates all he did was fire one provocative question at me.  He didn't make a case.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #366 on: June 25, 2013, 09:43:00 pm »

Ok, I was just about to ask Xeiron why he sheeped Ashersky,'s vote on Raerae, but looking back it seems that he thought Ash was fakeclaiming a result on Raerae. That's still weird, and I think it's odd that he picked up on the wagon when no else did, so slight scum read when that's combined with the lurking. Get in here, Xeiron!
Why would X thinking Ash was fakeclaiming make him sheep?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #367 on: June 25, 2013, 09:43:23 pm »

TA have you ever been scum?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #368 on: June 25, 2013, 09:44:59 pm »

Ok, I was just about to ask Xeiron why he sheeped Ashersky,'s vote on Raerae, but looking back it seems that he thought Ash was fakeclaiming a result on Raerae. That's still weird, and I think it's odd that he picked up on the wagon when no else did, so slight scum read when that's combined with the lurking. Get in here, Xeiron!
Why would X thinking Ash was fakeclaiming make him sheep?

oops fakeclaiming = softclaiming
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #369 on: June 25, 2013, 09:45:11 pm »

TA have you ever been scum?

Blitz XIII, otherwise no
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #370 on: June 25, 2013, 09:48:27 pm »

As soon as I read Shraeye's case, I knew he wasn't pushing it as a real case, or at least that he didn't think I was as scummy as he claimed I was -- he's smarter than that. Sure, he may have some inclination, but the stuff he pushed on me was not a real case. I assumed he was more than likely trying to get a reaction, similar to what he did in D1 of Pirates with his case on EFHW.

It makes sense that he wouldn't think it was a real case.  But in Pirates all he did was fire one provocative question at me.  He didn't make a case.

Are you sure? I thought he was going on about how it was strange that you weren't responding to mine/his questions. I guess I need to go back and re-read.

I immediately thought he was going for reactions, not that he found me extremely scummy, so I got a town read. Does scum!Shraeye have a benefit from doing this? I don't think he expected the case to stick at all, but several people have gotten scum reads on it, so maybe this was exactly what he planned on doing.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #371 on: June 25, 2013, 10:34:52 pm »

Ash, I'm not getting your scummy read on EFHW. I think it's easy to say things like "EFHW seems like she did in Masons and Monks", "TA seems like WS did in Samurai", etc. Without bringing up actual quotations, it means nothing to me -- if you're going to convince me EFHW is scum, I'd want more solid reasons, other than "she just seems the same". I understand that a lot of it is feel, but I hate these arguments relating to specific games, and I think it's a more likely argument to come from scum than from town. It's an argument without much solid backing, but one that you can't really get called out on, since it's an interpretation of metas and playstyles, and not an interpretation of solid evidence.

I also think that Ash is playing up his fake claim from Mean Girls a little too much for my liking. That's now several references to it -- I think he trying to get into peoples' heads more than anything else by playing it up. Whether or not that's along the lines of a "Man, there's no way he'd do something like that TWO games in a row", or something else, I don't know, but I don't like that he just brought it up again recently.

You are not alone in hating meta arguments.  But there isn't much I can say to assuage you.

Meta arguments are necessarily based on previous experience and what we've come to expect from players.  I think I've modded or played every game that EFHW has played except for Pirates II.  I've been beaten by scum!EFHW and watched scum!EFHW play a masterful game she only barely lost.  As such, I have a fresh vision for what scum!EFHW looks like.

I could quote from the Shakespeare game, but you were in it, and you paid attention.  You think she feels different this game?

As for my successful tracking of scum!mcmc in Mean Girls, nothing wrong with being proud to have played well as town previously when I'm town again.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #372 on: June 25, 2013, 10:35:25 pm »

As soon as I read Shraeye's case, I knew he wasn't pushing it as a real case, or at least that he didn't think I was as scummy as he claimed I was -- he's smarter than that. Sure, he may have some inclination, but the stuff he pushed on me was not a real case. I assumed he was more than likely trying to get a reaction, similar to what he did in D1 of Pirates with his case on EFHW.

I think shraeye was pushing the best case he felt he had at this early juncture in the game.  I don't think it was to get a reaction out of anyone.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #373 on: June 25, 2013, 10:36:14 pm »

Ok, I was just about to ask Xeiron why he sheeped Ashersky,'s vote on Raerae, but looking back it seems that he thought Ash was fakeclaiming a result on Raerae. That's still weird, and I think it's odd that he picked up on the wagon when no else did, so slight scum read when that's combined with the lurking. Get in here, Xeiron!
Why would X thinking Ash was fakeclaiming make him sheep?

oops fakeclaiming = softclaiming

Awfully quick to sheep a softclaim, though.  Sure, we had a N0, but it's a bit much to assume I'd catch raerae this quickly.  Although I guess I caught mcmc on N1, so that makes sense.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #374 on: June 25, 2013, 10:38:13 pm »

Chairs shouldn't have claimed, but I don't know if it makes him a NK target. Obviously it gives scum more information, but what's done is done, I suppose. I actually think it reads towny -- if he's scum, I'm sure his partners would have coached him up somewhat in QT re:claiming, and he'd be more careful to not throw a claim out there while there's opposition to it.

I agree, chairs is most likely town.
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