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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192199 times)

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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #325 on: June 25, 2013, 07:53:17 pm »

Clarification: Combinations can be used during any of the nights following its creation. They are NOT restricted to JUST the night after they're made.
Told ja.

Also, I'm not currently sure who raerae's partners are.  Not enough posts in the game to make any determinations yet.
I don't think Ash knows anything about raerae.  I think he's creating a provocation to see what happens.

Also, scum are going to have a really hard time if they try to chase down power roles.  Once they pinpoint one person as having used a role like cop or doctor, they can try to NK that person but the role could easily pop up somewhere else instead. 

I also think that we should think about using WIFOM to help town at least somewhat coordinate.  More on that later as we get a clearer sense of how things work.
Ash's got bad tunnel vision on rarrae. I think him constantly pushing her and not giving any reason whatsoever is anti town. Vote: ashersky

WIFIM for town might be good.

Here's your scummy reaction.  It came late in the game, as many pages had passed since I started the gambit.  You originally had little to no reaction to it.  Plus, voting someone for being "anti-town" is a classic scum tool for voting town members without reason and no pushback.
Well what he said is not super scummy. But the timing is...
That said. I'm not ready to let ash totally off the hook. It could be that he just realized his bad noncase on raerae wasn't going anywhere. So better to hop off and claim it was for reactions sake. 
But now that hrs actually scum hunting (which proves nothing when it comes to ash), I'm going tounvote for now
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #326 on: June 25, 2013, 07:54:00 pm »

I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

See, this just opens up more questions than anything.  Did you start with the paper?  Receive the paper?  We can infer that you might be Cai Lun or Gutenberg now.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #327 on: June 25, 2013, 07:54:56 pm »

Arch: Do role powers and item powers interact the same way with powers in both categories?
Yes.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #328 on: June 25, 2013, 07:55:46 pm »

Well what he said is not super scummy. But the timing is...
That said. I'm not ready to let ash totally off the hook. It could be that he just realized his bad noncase on raerae wasn't going anywhere. So better to hop off and claim it was for reactions sake. 
But now that hrs actually scum hunting (which proves nothing when it comes to ash), I'm going tounvote for now

Given you just got to experience the full-on scum ash experience (SAE), do you think the "raerae fake-case gambit" is something I'd do?  It doesn't really do much for me if I'm scum, and how helpful can making a fake case on raerae be so early in the game?

Regardless, I'm not one to worry about how I seem to others.  I wanted to get some convo going, and it worked.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #329 on: June 25, 2013, 07:56:25 pm »

Oh right Unvote doing stuff to cause reactions is kinda townie.

I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...
Scum hunt anyway! All my reads are usually backwards but I still try!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #330 on: June 25, 2013, 07:57:02 pm »

Why are we claiming?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #331 on: June 25, 2013, 07:58:20 pm »

I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

See, this just opens up more questions than anything.  Did you start with the paper?  Receive the paper?  We can infer that you might be Cai Lun or Gutenberg now.
Jeezuz...what's with the claiming!?!
vote chairs
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #332 on: June 25, 2013, 08:01:04 pm »

Well what he said is not super scummy. But the timing is...
That said. I'm not ready to let ash totally off the hook. It could be that he just realized his bad noncase on raerae wasn't going anywhere. So better to hop off and claim it was for reactions sake. 
But now that hrs actually scum hunting (which proves nothing when it comes to ash), I'm going tounvote for now

Given you just got to experience the full-on scum ash experience (SAE), do you think the "raerae fake-case gambit" is something I'd do?  It doesn't really do much for me if I'm scum, and how helpful can making a fake case on raerae be so early in the game?

Regardless, I'm not one to worry about how I seem to others.  I wanted to get some convo going, and it worked.
I wouldn't put anything past you....learned that lesson the hard way.  There is nothing you wouldnt claim or fakeclaim.  Nothing
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #333 on: June 25, 2013, 08:02:09 pm »

Vote Count 1.4

xeiron (1) raerae
raerae (1)  xeiron
Twistedarcher (1) shraeye
shraeye (1) chairs
chairs (1) spiritbears

Not Voting: ( 8 ) mail-mi, ashersky, Eevee, Twistedarcher, AHoppy, EFHW, theorel, nkirbit.


Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #334 on: June 25, 2013, 08:04:23 pm »

I'm neutral on the no-lynch concept in this game, and here's why:

Normally it appears that lynching is (overall) the correct option.

Pros to no-lynch in this game happen to include the paper-pushing option to invent cool stuff that gives us additional roles - and a dead townie means we can't get his piece of a potentially cool item (I'm willing to accept the loss for dead scum).

Pros to lynching in this game, aside from the obvious "killing scum is good" option, are that we don't actually know what the scum wincons are, and it's entirely possible that inventing X, Y, or Z item are among them, so more items still around offers them more opportunity to snag those items (either via power roles [potentially] or via their town face).

What is "paper-pushing"?

This subtle reference that was "missed"?

Fair enough, I missed your post.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #335 on: June 25, 2013, 08:06:10 pm »

Well what he said is not super scummy. But the timing is...
That said. I'm not ready to let ash totally off the hook. It could be that he just realized his bad noncase on raerae wasn't going anywhere. So better to hop off and claim it was for reactions sake. 
But now that hrs actually scum hunting (which proves nothing when it comes to ash), I'm going tounvote for now

Given you just got to experience the full-on scum ash experience (SAE), do you think the "raerae fake-case gambit" is something I'd do?  It doesn't really do much for me if I'm scum, and how helpful can making a fake case on raerae be so early in the game?

Regardless, I'm not one to worry about how I seem to others.  I wanted to get some convo going, and it worked.
I wouldn't put anything past you....learned that lesson the hard way.  There is nothing you wouldnt claim or fakeclaim.  Nothing

Thanks, I think. :)
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #336 on: June 25, 2013, 08:06:39 pm »

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #337 on: June 25, 2013, 08:10:01 pm »

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #338 on: June 25, 2013, 08:10:27 pm »

Clarification: Combinations can be used during any of the nights following its creation. They are NOT restricted to JUST the night after they're made.
Told ja.

Also, I'm not currently sure who raerae's partners are.  Not enough posts in the game to make any determinations yet.
I don't think Ash knows anything about raerae.  I think he's creating a provocation to see what happens.

Also, scum are going to have a really hard time if they try to chase down power roles.  Once they pinpoint one person as having used a role like cop or doctor, they can try to NK that person but the role could easily pop up somewhere else instead. 

I also think that we should think about using WIFOM to help town at least somewhat coordinate.  More on that later as we get a clearer sense of how things work.
Ash's got bad tunnel vision on rarrae. I think him constantly pushing her and not giving any reason whatsoever is anti town. Vote: ashersky

WIFIM for town might be good.

Here's your scummy reaction.  It came late in the game, as many pages had passed since I started the gambit.  You originally had little to no reaction to it.  Plus, voting someone for being "anti-town" is a classic scum tool for voting town members without reason and no pushback.
Well okay. I still don't get how it's that scummy, but if that's how you view it, fine.

To clarify, I don't really think voting at that time was so bad, but I didn't like the reasoning.  Something like:

"vote: ash because his tunneling on raerae looks like scum trying to push a mislynch on a vocal towny who is easy to paint as scummy"

would have been a good town reaction.  Because I do think pushing raerae mislynches is a scum tactic because raerae's playstyle makes it easy to turn folks against her.  That's partly why I chose her for this gambit.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #339 on: June 25, 2013, 08:11:03 pm »

I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

See, this just opens up more questions than anything.  Did you start with the paper?  Receive the paper?  We can infer that you might be Cai Lun or Gutenberg now.

Certainly it does open up questions, but I simply don't see where else we can go for scumhunting other than to get at least some relevant information out there  (granted, it seems most of you are playing at a lot higher level of WIFOM than I am, so perhaps I'm just missing it).  I don't know where we draw the line on what questions we do/don't answer here.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #340 on: June 25, 2013, 08:11:17 pm »

Why are we claiming?

We're not.
At least we shouldnt be.....

All I'm comfortable claiming right now is that I'm a Tracker and I caught mcmc targeting nkirbit.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #341 on: June 25, 2013, 08:12:22 pm »

Ash: all that you said = yu being anti town/scummy.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #342 on: June 25, 2013, 08:13:01 pm »

Also in the post you just made, ashersky, you mention knowing about raerae's playstyle.  I'm having to pick up playstyle clues effectively from nil which affects my decisionmaking, certainly.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #343 on: June 25, 2013, 08:13:15 pm »

Why are we claiming?

We're not.
At least we shouldnt be.....

All I'm comfortable claiming right now is that I'm a Tracker and I caught mcmc targeting nkirbit.
Grrr: ashersky
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #344 on: June 25, 2013, 08:15:36 pm »

I want to get scumhunting done, but I know I'm not good at it... right now, I'm waiting on mail-mi and chairs.  Although, this seems to be normal mai-mi: scummy and silent...

Well, I've mostly been quiet as I don't really have anything to add to the discussion and everything I've added so far I've been told is bad form.

I'm going to go ahead and item claim, though, since the earlier subtle reference was missed and I think my item's pretty darn innocuous: I have paper.

See, this just opens up more questions than anything.  Did you start with the paper?  Receive the paper?  We can infer that you might be Cai Lun or Gutenberg now.

Certainly it does open up questions, but I simply don't see where else we can go for scumhunting other than to get at least some relevant information out there  (granted, it seems most of you are playing at a lot higher level of WIFOM than I am, so perhaps I'm just missing it).  I don't know where we draw the line on what questions we do/don't answer here.

In the end, the info is yours, you do what you want.  It's just that most of town had vocalized that they weren't ready for claiming, and wanted a better idea for how we would do it.

Here's a hypothetical:

Scum has an item that somehow interacts with paper.  They know they want paper to make it work.  Now they can try to subtly buddy you to get you to send them some.  Or they know that paper is needed as wadding in a musket for shooting.  Or they think they can build paper airplanes to send PMs.  I don't know.  The problem is, you don't know either.  But they might.

Now, the info is out there.  What do we do with it?  I think that's the more pertinent topic now.



As for saying this helps us scumhunt, I disagree.  Talking set-up/theory/items/etc., when they aren't indicative of alignment, doesn't help us scumhunt.  Scumhunting (to me) is looking at what people say about other people, how they interact with each other, what sorts of stances they may take on things.  Does your premature claim say something about your alignment?  I think so, so I guess that adds to the scumhunting.  But the rest of the discussion that we necessarily have to have about the paper will not.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #345 on: June 25, 2013, 08:17:08 pm »

Also in the post you just made, ashersky, you mention knowing about raerae's playstyle.  I'm having to pick up playstyle clues effectively from nil which affects my decisionmaking, certainly.

Absolutely a fair point.  Being new in these games can be a disadvantage.

But it's also an advantage in that you don't have preconceived notions of us.

Take spiritbears's recent posts about me.  And mail-mil's own grrr.  It's impossible for them to separate their most recent experience playing a game with me (against me, as it was, given I was mafia that game) from current events.  You don't have that issue and can make your own opinions.

Could be you think I'm scummy anyway, and that's fine.  But remember, what you may see as a disadvantage can be helpful.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #346 on: June 25, 2013, 08:17:57 pm »

Ash: all that you said = yu being anti town/scummy.


We might just disagree here, but anti-town =/= scummy.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #347 on: June 25, 2013, 08:20:01 pm »

Why are we claiming?

We're not.
At least we shouldnt be.....

All I'm comfortable claiming right now is that I'm a Tracker and I caught mcmc targeting nkirbit.
I have reason believe this is false
vote ash
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #348 on: June 25, 2013, 08:30:33 pm »

Quote from: ashersky link=topic=8002.msg261713#msg261713
Right, sorry.  For what it's worth, I think that matches your scum meta (MnM and Shakespeare).
Which?  Sensitivity?  Trust me, it's my everyday meta.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #349 on: June 25, 2013, 08:37:47 pm »

Why are we claiming?

We're not.
At least we shouldnt be.....

All I'm comfortable claiming right now is that I'm a Tracker and I caught mcmc targeting nkirbit.
I have reason believe this is false
vote ash
I think that was a joke, sb.  mcmc isn't even in this game.
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