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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192187 times)

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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #200 on: June 25, 2013, 01:36:35 am »

I really don't agree with the no lynch idea.  But I don't fins you totally scummy for bringing it up.  It's just not helpful I think
Ash--very scummy tunneling Rae Rae...and yes, trying to paint her legitimate position as overly scummy is just scummy imo. My ash vote turned out to be s good one...sticking with this one
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #201 on: June 25, 2013, 01:57:08 am »

FWIW, Ahoppy, I asked about a no-lynch in my other game (albeit that one's AFAIK basically vanilla Mafia) and I may be our D1 lynch for it.  Apparently if you've an odd number of players, it's (usually) a bad idea.

nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #202 on: June 25, 2013, 01:58:46 am »

Chairs:  Just as a heads up, you really shouldn't be talking about other games that are still going on.  There are players who are in both games, and those who aren't probably reading both anyway.  Talking about completed games is fine, though.
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #203 on: June 25, 2013, 02:57:46 am »

I figured I might, but I'm pleading inexperience.  I have to learn somehow, and it seems like a viable option to me.  Is it the best? No, lynching scum is the best.  But I'm know I can't read people well enough to do that D1, especially if scum are vets. 

mods:  What are we going to find out upon death?  Their role? Flavor? inventory? all of the above?  just their alignment?
It's in OP#2, but Alignment, Flavor Name, and Role Name will all be revealed upon lynch and/or nightkill.
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #204 on: June 25, 2013, 02:59:58 am »

Arch, are there potentially bastard roles that are constructable?  Like, can we make an invention to miller someone, or cult recruit?
No bastard roles whatsoever.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #205 on: June 25, 2013, 08:04:45 am »

I tried to post something last night, but I wasn't feeling well, and I got a new replies thing and maybe forgot to hit post again?  Anyways, it was sometime before ashersky's post.

Anyways, I find theory discussion useful and interesting in general, and am always willing to go in-depth into it.  I generally do so early because it's far more interesting than RVS (and usually helps transition out of RVS, and I don't believe it has the downside of people finding one another scummy for their positions on theory).

For this game in particular, as ash pointed out there are 3 things that can be claimed.  Roles, inventory-related things, and results.  There's of course also flavor names which are perhaps attached to inventory-related items.  But that's the claiming side of things.  I think there may be limited usefulness in claiming inventory-related things, but probably not right now.  BUT claiming is not the limit of theory talk, it's just a beginning.

There's also set-up speculation.  Which I think bit us in DS9 mafia, because we assumed there were 4 scum when there were 6 (it's possible extra speculation in the beginning would have saved us, but I don't know that we ever would have expected 6).  I'll just note we should be careful about the set-up, and any assumptions we may come to regarding it.  With 13 players, that's the size of CK9++ which means that 2-3 scum is a reasonable team-size with up to 1 Serial Killer (in addition).  This is NOT multi-ball so I think something in that vicinity is reasonable here as well, and hence it's what I'll be expecting.

Then there's the other part of theory.  Where we make plans and such to optimize the usefulness of PRs.  Now, in this game we know nothing about PRs.  BUT we all have these items.  There must be some way to share items, and it seems likely to me that we all have the same means of sharing them (though there may be additional ways in various PRs).  I think it may merit discussion to talk about how directing these sharings would be useful (or if not directing them would be better in people's opinions).  It seems to me like we want to spread the items around a decent amount, in order to maximize the number of power roles we have.  Ideally getting good combinations of items together, so that if I have an item that combines with a tube, I get a tube.

Of course, there are a few difficulties here.  In particular, how directed is our item sharing?  What do people need?  How do we NOT lose items that are powerful.  But I think at least some of these things merit discussion.

Finally, soft deadline.  Let's make one and try to get day1 done by then.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #206 on: June 25, 2013, 08:05:53 am »

*above should say sometime before ashersky's big post on claiming.  He had posted once at that time.  I'm not sure why that's relevant actually, but I was going to bring up some theory stuff, and ashersky did so...though he brought up slightly different stuff from me.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #207 on: June 25, 2013, 08:47:00 am »

Avoiding a mass claim is the only way we won the last role madness game.   Is that right in every case ever?  Probably not.  But every time I've seen a whole bunch of people claiming, it's screwed over town.  Have I played every game ever like some people here?  Nope, sure haven't.  Does that negate my experience?  Nope, sure doesn't. 

TA, who do you think is scummiest at this point?
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #208 on: June 25, 2013, 09:21:26 am »

I think that extreme positions are detrimental to town.  There are times for claiming, and times for not claiming.  I believe (as does everyone near as I can tell) that now is not a time for a mass-claim.  So, I'm not really sure why you bring it up every time?  Perhaps you mean something different by mass-claim than me.

I'm wondering if there might be good ways to share items which helps to create more power roles for town.  And that means that we should spread around items.  But spreading them around by say "sending an item to the next person in the sign-up list" (if such a thing is possible), would NOT presumably be a good way to do that. (gives scum excess info)

So, one possibility would be for everyone to suggest items they think might be useful based on the items in their inventory (whether received or granted by set-up).  I happen to think that would be a good way of helping us generate more power roles without giving scum excess information.  It doesn't strike me as a mass-claim, especially since you would have to determine what someone has based on what they're asking for.  Although it depends on how good players are at suggesting useful items for their current items.  And of course, it depends on how directed everyone's collaboration methods are.  Maybe this is a bad idea...and hey that's fine.  I'm not married to it, I came up with it while writing the previous post.  But are there any better ideas?  Or is everyone sold on blind collaboration and hoping?
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #209 on: June 25, 2013, 09:54:36 am »

So far, I like the suggestion idea the best. I'm sure scum could use it to take advantage of us, but I think tow. Will probably benefit more (assuming more town than scum, more town will get items, more town with power roles).  The only issue is how would we know what to ask for? We don't know what kinds of other items are out there, and I'm not sure how it will generate any discussion. Say I ask for an item, I can't say what I need to use it for or what items I think it will combine with. And any other person isn't going to say that they can give me that, so I'm not really sure how it helps us actually catch scum. Give us more PR's, possibly. Give us more info on scum? Not really. So while I think its the best D1 idea we have, I'm not sure how much it will actually help move D1 along. 

EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #210 on: June 25, 2013, 09:57:14 am »

I think it may merit discussion to talk about how directing these sharings would be useful (or if not directing them would be better in people's opinions).  It seems to me like we want to spread the items around a decent amount, in order to maximize the number of power roles we have.  Ideally getting good combinations of items together, so that if I have an item that combines with a tube, I get a tube.
This.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #211 on: June 25, 2013, 10:10:39 am »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #212 on: June 25, 2013, 10:13:15 am »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
Well do you think scum was going to give town that tube either way?

theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #213 on: June 25, 2013, 10:13:59 am »

So far, I like the suggestion idea the best. I'm sure scum could use it to take advantage of us, but I think tow. Will probably benefit more (assuming more town than scum, more town will get items, more town with power roles).  The only issue is how would we know what to ask for? We don't know what kinds of other items are out there, and I'm not sure how it will generate any discussion. Say I ask for an item, I can't say what I need to use it for or what items I think it will combine with. And any other person isn't going to say that they can give me that, so I'm not really sure how it helps us actually catch scum. Give us more PR's, possibly. Give us more info on scum? Not really. So while I think its the best D1 idea we have, I'm not sure how much it will actually help move D1 along.

This is true.  This is not scumhunting, it's theory-discussion.  Like i said, I (personally) find it more useful/interesting than RVS...but ultimately, we have to move OUT of theory-discussion and into scum-hunting.

Let's see we've had a bit of a no-lynch discussion.  We should also discuss random lynch, or is that discussion not in vogue anymore (I don't remember reading it in any recent games)?

Also, as has been suggested: Soft Deadline?  July 4th is going to get in the way.  July 3rd is actually maybe far enough out?  That gives us a week and a day.  That seems like plenty, and puts July 4th overnight, which would be nice.  So, I officially suggest July 3rd as our soft deadline.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #214 on: June 25, 2013, 10:17:55 am »

Hi guys, I'm playing too!

I oppose any sort of claiming for now. I don't think it's necessarily a doomed idea, but you/we should have a strong reason for doing so. A lot of the speculation around it may also cause scum to infer stuff, so that's a bit bad.

I have a meta-based townread on ashersky, he seems quite aggressive and inyourface - which is how I think he intentionally plays town to "show" everyone he is town.

Raerae I don't know about, I'm leaning town too just because she seems fine with being controversial. I'm quite null on everyone else, nothing too memorable has really happened yet. I'm very pleased to see theorel back for a game!
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #215 on: June 25, 2013, 10:19:41 am »

July 3rd sounds like a fine soft deadline to me.

I firmly oppose random lynching, not only do I think it's not optimal, it's also very not fun. I'd rather play the game!

Nolynching might be viable given the RMM nature of the setup, but it could also be very very bad, so ultimately I just want business as usual. Lets make something happen, see how people react and try to find scum!
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #216 on: June 25, 2013, 10:21:06 am »

Random lynch is even worse than nolynch imo
July 3 is ok with me
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #217 on: June 25, 2013, 10:22:10 am »

What would make no lynch very very bad?

Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #218 on: June 25, 2013, 10:24:12 am »

What would make no lynch very very bad?
I don't know, parity stuff? We'd end up nolynching again at some point and would just have given scum extra nights to kill for nothing?
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #219 on: June 25, 2013, 10:28:46 am »

Shraeye and I will be v/la with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8 unless we are very very lucky.  So, moral of that story is that if we don't lynch on 7/3 we won't be able to participate until about a week later. 
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2013, 10:39:28 am »

re: theorel's idea, what if we reverse it.  I say an item I have that is not obviously a great role (I don't say penicillin or shiny badge!) and if you think your item would be a good match, you share it with me.

July 3rd is fine.

No lynch is a bad plan, but could be an ok outcome if we get to deadline and are nowhere.  But does that ever happen?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #221 on: June 25, 2013, 10:43:02 am »

Shraeye and I will be v/la with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8 unless we are very very lucky.  So, moral of that story is that if we don't lynch on 7/3 we won't be able to participate until about a week later.
Would you have time to do night actions before you go?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #222 on: June 25, 2013, 10:45:28 am »

Also re: no lynch, it does seem like sometimes we get to deadline and people vote to ensure there is a lynch when they aren't actually fully convinced.  That seems like a good time to ask oneself if no lynch might actually be ok.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2013, 11:00:39 am »

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...

raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #224 on: June 25, 2013, 11:09:47 am »

Shraeye and I will be v/la with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8 unless we are very very lucky.  So, moral of that story is that if we don't lynch on 7/3 we won't be able to participate until about a week later.
Would you have time to do night actions before you go?

I assume we'd arrange that with Arch as needed.  I suppose I'll have access from my phone and the two of us can make that work to get that stuff done as needed.
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