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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 192267 times)

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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #125 on: June 24, 2013, 05:02:17 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #126 on: June 24, 2013, 05:06:27 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #127 on: June 24, 2013, 05:15:05 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?

Getting a game started can be hard.. if this is what people want to do to try and get it started, I have no problem with it.  I'm taking very little (if any) of it seriously, though.

What do you think?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #128 on: June 24, 2013, 05:20:26 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #129 on: June 24, 2013, 05:22:35 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?

Getting a game started can be hard.. if this is what people want to do to try and get it started, I have no problem with it.  I'm taking very little (if any) of it seriously, though.

What do you think?

Well, when somebody says they're seriously voting for somebody, I...erm...take that seriously.  Two people specifically stated their votes aren't RVS yet you still think they're joking? 

In your dream world, how would you get this game started?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #130 on: June 24, 2013, 05:22:52 pm »

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #131 on: June 24, 2013, 05:24:10 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?

Getting a game started can be hard.. if this is what people want to do to try and get it started, I have no problem with it.  I'm taking very little (if any) of it seriously, though.

What do you think?

Well, when somebody says they're seriously voting for somebody, I...erm...take that seriously.  Two people specifically stated their votes aren't RVS yet you still think they're joking? 

In your dream world, how would you get this game started?

I'll take them seriously when they come back with reasons.  Until then, I won't.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #132 on: June 24, 2013, 05:26:43 pm »

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.

Obviously, this isn't like the most solid suspicion ever, but they could be throwing out there that they find someone scummy to see if anyone else will pull anything there. Like, for example, but Ashersky could be throwing Raerae out there, causing me to go and re-read Raerae's last couple of posts for something scummy, and see if anything gains momentum. It's a pretty easy way to say "Go reread this person! I think she's scummy!" but also back off and say it was actually just RVS.

I never read it as a joke...when they said it wasn't RVS I took them seriously. If there's joking about it, it's a silly misleading joke, and misleading is never good for townmembers. I really don't think either vote was a joke.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #133 on: June 24, 2013, 05:27:12 pm »

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.

Even though they SPECIFICALLY said their votes are not RVS? 
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #134 on: June 24, 2013, 05:32:49 pm »

With threads like this, I'm going to have to start a bible on you guys to refer to in future games  :P

ashersky

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #135 on: June 24, 2013, 05:33:16 pm »

This is also one of those games where claiming, if not done smartly, can easily be abused by scum (*cough* me in RMM3 *cough*). It may not always be wise to immediately claim that you know the specific combination for the 'Cop' power as scum can use that for their own malicious purposes... Flavor is also fairly important in this game. Not only when trying to figure out which objects match up to which power roles, but also in the general storyline as well as in PMs.

I believe this post is the one everyone expected.

So, as anyone who has played this game with me knows, I LOVE claiming.  Probably as much as raerae HATES claiming.  Let me break down why I am correct 100% of the time and raerae is only correct 90% of the time, in the context of this game.

I've played every single Archetype game on f.ds (I think).  I've been on multiple teams with Archetype.  We've co-modded together.  Reading my PM, and thinking back on other games, I believe I understand where he's coming from with the post above.

(As an aside, I totally get shraeye's point for why he is generally not a fan of theory talk, which I think is inseparable from claiming.  Unlike raerae, who just has a visceral reaction to it, shraeye has a sensible reason, which is almost always true.  Players DO come up with ideas about the set-up, and then they DO try to fit everyone into it, and then they DO let that paint the way they see other players in the game.  Set-up theory is NOT scumhunting.  It is a useful tool though, if you don't let it decide who is and isn't scum for you.)

So, what do we know (publically)?  It's RMM, so we can assume no traditional "VT" roles.  There are "inventions" we make from stuff.  More stuff generally = better inventions.  We have to guess from a list to figure it out.

And that's it.  We don't know the number of scum, or scum teams.  We don't know anything whatsoever about the PRs in the game.  We don't know a bunch of other stuff.

BUT!  We do know stuff.  I know stuff.  You know stuff.  We also know about "stuff" in the context of the game.  Each of us has more information than the other.  What we don't know is how sharing that information can help town (or scum).

So.  Mass claiming.  It's a hobby of mine.  I design games with claiming in mind.  I build in fake claims into my scum roles.  As an example, in Ninjas and Samurai, a normal game, I provided fake claims within the scum flavor without ever saying "here's your fake claim!"  Because here's the thing: if a massclaim breaks the game, or ends the game with little to no effort, that doesn't make for a fun game.  So mods do their best to take that into consideration (and sometimes fail horribly, like me and what I thought was going to be the awesomest blitz game ever).

What could we mass claim here?  Roles?  Check.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Check.  Night action Results?  Check.

What SHOULD we mass claim here?  Roles?  No way.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Nope.  Night action Results? 

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum AND not outed a power role.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases. 
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #136 on: June 24, 2013, 05:34:07 pm »

Also, I'm not currently sure who raerae's partners are.  Not enough posts in the game to make any determinations yet.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #137 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:12 pm »

I agree generally with what you're saying, but how does this make Raerae scummy? Her visceral reaction to claiming is present when she's town, as well.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #138 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:27 pm »

Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.

Ash, you should just make this your signature or something if you're going to keep bringing it up :P
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nkirbit

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #139 on: June 24, 2013, 05:39:50 pm »

I believe this post is the one everyone expected.

So, as anyone who has played this game with me knows, I LOVE claiming.  Probably as much as raerae HATES claiming.  Let me break down why I am correct 100% of the time and raerae is only correct 90% of the time, in the context of this game.

...

What SHOULD we mass claim here?  Roles?  No way.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Nope.  Night action Results? 

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum AND not outed a power role.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.

It does seem odd that for someone who professes to be correct 100% of the time that claiming is good, you don't seem to want to claim here.
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ashersky

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #140 on: June 24, 2013, 05:41:07 pm »

I believe this post is the one everyone expected.

So, as anyone who has played this game with me knows, I LOVE claiming.  Probably as much as raerae HATES claiming.  Let me break down why I am correct 100% of the time and raerae is only correct 90% of the time, in the context of this game.

...

What SHOULD we mass claim here?  Roles?  No way.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Nope.  Night action Results? 

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum AND not outed a power role.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.

It does seem odd that for someone who professes to be correct 100% of the time that claiming is good, you don't seem to want to claim here.

I'm correct 100% of the time given I love claiming.  I also temper that with knowing when we should and shouldn't claim.  I'm going to send yuma into a tizzy now because he's not in this game and can't post, but we would have so demolished his team had we all just followed my plan on Masons and Monks.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #141 on: June 24, 2013, 05:41:27 pm »

Also, hyperbole.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #142 on: June 24, 2013, 06:13:15 pm »

Also, vote: Twistedarcher

not RVS.

Are you SURE?? Or are you joking?
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EFHW

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #143 on: June 24, 2013, 06:13:54 pm »

I'm correct 100% of the time given I love claiming.  I also temper that with knowing when we should and shouldn't claim.  I'm going to send yuma into a tizzy now because he's not in this game and can't post, but we would have so demolished his team had we all just followed my plan on Masons and Monks.
I'll tizzy for him - no way!
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2013, 06:15:48 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
If you are going to be very suspicious, that means you think scum could benefit from doing this.  How so?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2013, 06:17:28 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #146 on: June 24, 2013, 06:20:47 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
If you are going to be very suspicious, that means you think scum could benefit from doing this.  How so?
nvm, I see you answered this already.  It does seem to draw more attention to the voter than the votee, though.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #147 on: June 24, 2013, 06:23:03 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
If you are going to be very suspicious, that means you think scum could benefit from doing this.  How so?

It's in reply #133 (or maybe one or two off, I remember that being an issue with us before - are your post #s still different than mine?). But basically, it could be trying to get someone else to make a case, or read a person more closely, to see if there's anything there. And it's simply enough to back off and be like "Just kidding, guys, it was a joke!" if no one comes up with anything. Ash and Shraeye also arent the two people I would pick as most likely to make a RVS-but-not-RVS joke, anyways, so it would be odd, at the very least.

Once again though I seriously doubt either was RVS or a joke
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #148 on: June 24, 2013, 06:24:53 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.

I think D2 we'll have a better idea of how claiming may or may not help us.  I think D3 we definitely claim.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #149 on: June 24, 2013, 06:34:10 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.


The puzzle aspect certainly makes it more fun. But right now, there's nothing we really gain. We favor claim, and I'm sure scum will have good fakeclaims more than likely. Combination claiming doesn't help guide us to a correct lynch today. Results claim, that could work, but once again, someone with a correct result should try to guide us to the correct lynch rather than coming out immediately. So yeah, claiming's probably not great today, and we should just play it like a normal day I suppose.
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