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Author Topic: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)  (Read 40543 times)

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Archetype

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RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Plagiarists Win!)
« on: April 29, 2013, 11:40:40 pm »

RMM8 Innovation Incorporated

"You can have brilliant ideas, but if you can’t get them across, your ideas won’t get you anywhere."
-Lee Iacocca

Full-Time Employees (/in):

0. Archetype
1. ashersky Samuel Colt: 2-shot Vigilante. Bomb'ed N1.
2. Eevee
3. xeiron
4. raerae Benjamin Franklin: Semi-Innocent Child. Shot N1.
5. mail-mi Nikola Tesla: 1-shot Nexus. Lynched D1.
6. TwistedArcher
7. chairs
8. shraeye
9. Ahoppy
10. EFHW Eli Whitney: Bomb. Shot N1.
11. spiritbears John Dolland: Tracker. Modkilled D1.
12. theorel
13. nkirbt

Interns (/tag):

1. yuma
2. Jimmmmm
3. liopoil


Please read the
Civility Pledge before /inning. Thanks!


This setup IS a Role-Madness game, so (almost) nothing of the roles will be published. I cannot promise that it will be completely balanced, but I can promise it'll be fun! Axxle has briefly viewed the setup and it's mechanics and thought it looked good, but if a different member that doesn't want to play wants to view it, please PM me.

There will be nothing Bastard about this setup. No Jesters. No Alignment changes. No Multiball. No tricks. I will not lie in any fashion (PINL). No roles are made up, and the game itself is a pretty straight-forward and standard game of Mafia.


Mafia Ruleset (stolen and modified from eHalcyon's RMM-I intro post)

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable. This includes item combinations, items, etc.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.
3. If you have a role with a Night action, your choices are due to me by the posted deadline.  If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage)
See Post 2.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase. Otherwise, I'll make the target of your night action random.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will have 'bankable time'.  See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline.  There is a slight twist:
Day 1 will last 21 days
Each day following is guaranteed to last 4 days
Leftover time from Day 1 will be used at the end of the 4 day period if all time has not been used

8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold blue text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. Just remember, this is ROLE MADNESS.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 48 hours of no activity.  They will not be issued automatically.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:


(Probably not as helpful as they could be, given that the set up is entirely different from any regular Mafia game.)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 09:49:26 pm by Archetype »
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Archetype

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 11:41:03 pm »

Setup Specific Information

An Innovation themed game!?

If you mean the board game, then no. Well sort of. You’ll realize the theme of the game as it progresses, which is cool in itself. But anyway. The fun thing about this game is that in addition to every player being given a neat-o power role; at the end of each night they’ll be able to make their own powers by combining various objects.

Twice a night, every night, each player may tell me which objects they’d like to combine and I'll give them a list of power roles that particular combination may make. They will PM me back with which power role they think that item combination makes. One or more of the of the power roles in the list will be the correct choice, and if they choose a correct one, they will be granted that power role to be used the next night. They will be notified if that particular combination doesn't make anything. Different combinations will yield different powers, but generally stronger power roles will require more objects than weaker ones. Some objects, however, may work just fine all by themselves and all a player has to do is guess that the object will work perfectly fine as-is. But beware of scum's objects!

Regardless of the number of objects in the combination, the different combinations make will make thematic sense and shouldn’t be too difficult to guess.  I will say that the combinations themselves are also all set in stone and will be revealed at game’s end. The most a combination will vary will be whether it's scum or town so that each side can make use of the object, but it will still make thematic sense and only a few objects are split depending on alignment. Guesses you don't use will be rolled over to the following night.

To further help with guessing, small hints to potential combinations may be dropped within an object’s description and during in-game opening/closing posts. So keep your eyes peeled.

This may sound a bit complicated, but it should flow pretty smoothly. The nights may be a bit longer than normal with me having to process the different guesses, but it shouldn't be too bad.


But that’s not all folks…

In addition to all the role madness mentioned above, this game will have a No Kill N0 Start. This means that everyone will be able to use their Power Roles N0 (including combining objects), but any kills done that night are guaranteed to fail.

This is also one of those games where claiming, if not done smartly, can easily be abused by scum (*cough* me in RMM3 *cough*). It may not always be wise to immediately claim that you know the specific combination for the 'Cop' power as scum can use that for their own malicious purposes... Flavor is also fairly important in this game. Not only when trying to figure out which objects match up to which power roles, but also in the general storyline as well as in PMs.

Speaking of PMs, each player’s Role PM will be fairly informal, but will still contain the Archetypical (hehe) Flavor Name, Role Name, Alignment, and Description. Flavor Name won’t necessarily be connected to alignment, but it will be heavily connected to a player's role. The Role Name is your power in Mafia terms while your alignment will depict who you will win with and your win condition. A player’s Flavor Name, Role Name, and Alignment will all be shown upon death. The Description will be a short flavorful run-down of your role and will mention any specifics a player would need to know about it. I’ll also most likely put your Inventory here which will contain all items that are in your possession. I don't have a specific uniform for descriptions, so I may describe items, power roles, combinations, certain aspects of your Role PM, slightly differently depending on how 'flavor-intensive' I'm feeling; not necessarily because of alignment.

That should be about it. I think this will be my best game yet and I’m really excited about modding it. Hopefully signups will fill quickly so we can get this show on the road!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:28:16 pm by Archetype »
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ashersky

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 11:43:11 pm »

Is this Disney/Pixar?

Like, Monsters Inc?
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Archetype

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 11:44:35 pm »

Is this Disney/Pixar?

Like, Monsters Inc?
No, but it's better. Trust me.

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Jimmmmm

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 11:55:46 pm »

/tag
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2013, 07:47:14 am »

/tag
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2013, 02:33:39 pm »

/tag
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 08:59:08 pm »

Alright, I added information specific to the setup. Let me know if you have any questions about it (though some can only be answered once the game has started).
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open!)
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2013, 12:18:49 am »

Seems like there has been a call for signups, so I'll Bump this.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 5/13)
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2013, 01:53:41 pm »

Alright, again because of what you said in the index, /in.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 06:11:41 pm »

Bump!
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 08:22:32 pm »

Bump!
Is there something here that people just don't like? If the bankable deadline thing is the issue I can easily change that.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 09:08:38 pm »

For rule #5, will we know who has been selected randomly?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 09:09:20 pm »

Will the roles the items make be in categories, or specific roles?
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 10:47:02 pm »

Will the roles the items make be in categories, or specific roles?
Actual Roles. I don't want to divulge too much into it until the game starts, however. I imagine that it'll be a fun little minigame in addition to the daily scumhunting. Sort of like Robz's RPG game.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 10:50:39 pm by Archetype »
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 10:48:01 pm »

For rule #5, will we know who has been selected randomly?
Eh, probably not upfront, but if they ask, sure.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2013, 07:57:39 pm »

 :( This needs to start.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2013, 08:09:47 pm »

:( This needs to start.
It really does!

I'll be fully updating Post 2 sometime this week. Maybe today. I'll have to see how much time I have.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2013, 08:12:19 pm »

:( This needs to start.
It really does!

I'll be fully updating Post 2 sometime this week. Maybe today. I'll have to see how much time I have.
Oh. And if any spectator that has no interest in ever /inning and wants to learn the secrets behind the setup/look it over, feel free to PM me. Axxle knows the general gist of it, but I don't think he's seen the final product.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2013, 11:59:08 pm »

OP#2 is fully updated for Game Start. If you're already /in or considering /inning, you may want to look it over if you have some spare time. If you need any sort of clarification, please don't hesitate to ask. Some questions, however, can only be answered (or will already be answered) once the game has begun.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2013, 12:01:53 am »

Okay this just looks too dang cool

/in
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2013, 12:03:36 am »

Vote: twisted!
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2013, 12:06:17 am »

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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 7/13)
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2013, 09:02:35 pm »

Hurray it's TA!

Just 6 more and we'll be ready to go!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 7/13)
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2013, 08:22:14 pm »

Sorry, I have to /out.  I'm going to be gone for too much of the game.  If it was to start now, when would it end?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 7/13)
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 08:33:14 pm »

It probably won' start now, so I don't think it matters. It'll most likely start after Shakespeare.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 7/13)
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 08:38:38 pm »

It probably won' start now, so I don't think it matters. It'll most likely start after Shakespeare.
It will, Shakespeare has started.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 7/13)
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 04:13:49 pm »

Alright, Shakespeare started, so /out.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 09:14:32 pm »

Yeah, looks like this won't start for a while. Which I'm fine with. I'm going to have my hands full running Survivor anyways!
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2013, 10:14:20 pm »

/in

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2013, 10:17:07 pm »

/in

Hi chairs! I think you will enjoy this game. If you are interested as a newer player there is also another game that you may be interested in playing.

It is a simplified form of forum mafia with only 9 players and pretty standard roles. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8297.0 Join in if you are interested and welcome to the community!
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2013, 04:45:20 pm »

/in

Hi chairs! I think you will enjoy this game. If you are interested as a newer player there is also another game that you may be interested in playing.

It is a simplified form of forum mafia with only 9 players and pretty standard roles. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8297.0 Join in if you are interested and welcome to the community!

Thanks :)  I haven't played Mafia for quite a while, but I'm pretty familiar with the concept.  I think playing with folks that understand/enjoy Dominion means it should be hilariously backstabby.  I've /in'd your game as well ^_^

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2013, 04:50:09 pm »

do you know Tables? :P
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2013, 03:35:18 am »

do you know Tables? :P
Man I so wish I could +1 this.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2013, 02:38:53 pm »

do you know Tables? :P

No, but that name -was- the inspiration for my own.  I was reading the guild preview, saw his username, and decided if we had tables we must need chairs.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2013, 12:27:23 pm »

Awesome to have you chairs! Hopefully you'll enjoy the game. Even though you've played Mafia before, this game is going to be a bit different than a standard game so if you have any questions feel free to ask.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2013, 12:51:59 pm »

Ok, I'll do this one too.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2013, 01:03:14 pm »

I'm interested, but I don't want to have 2 games going at once. So if signups are still open once the one game I'm in ends, then I'll /in

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2013, 10:23:02 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2013, 10:30:31 pm »

/in
Yeah! Now we just have to have all the other taggers join!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 6/13)
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2013, 12:57:59 pm »

Shweet. Yuma doesn't like RMM, so I don't think he's going to /in. But Jimmmmm or nikirbt might and sudgy might once Shakespeare ends.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2013, 08:26:32 pm »

I probably will when I'm done with shakespeare.  But I don't want to be in 3 games at once.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2013, 08:30:03 pm »

Cool. This won't start until that's over anyways.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2013, 01:28:41 am »

Will it wait until after my long V/LA?  This game looks interesting...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2013, 12:55:35 pm »

Will it wait until after my long V/LA?  This game looks interesting...
Most likely yes. Kooshie's V/LA too, so we'll be waiting for her too. But once we hit 13 and someone wants /in, I'll have to kick out one of the V/LA people to get it started.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2013, 01:24:55 pm »

I just can't stay away
Not sure I understand this one
But /in
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2013, 02:06:30 pm »

I just can't stay away
Not sure I understand this one
But /in
If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2013, 02:12:18 pm »

I just can't stay away
Not sure I understand this one
But /in

With the way that you make new lines like that, I read your posts as I would read poetry...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2013, 02:13:38 pm »

I just can't stay away
Not sure I understand this one
But /in
If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
Thanks!  The combo thing is a little confusing but it sounds interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2013, 02:15:23 pm »

I just can't stay away
Not sure I understand this one
But /in

With the way that you make new lines like that, I read your posts as I would read poetry...
Lol
My typing is often difficult to read
So I try to break it up 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2013, 02:50:29 pm »

Lol
My typing is often difficult to read
So I try to break it up
That's some real deep stuff, SB.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 12/13)
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2013, 04:04:57 pm »

Alright, I don't want to miss out on this because it sounds really cool.  Put me /in

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 10/13)
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2013, 09:04:08 pm »

Will it wait until after my long V/LA?  This game looks interesting...
Most likely yes. Kooshie's V/LA too, so we'll be waiting for her too. But once we hit 13 and someone wants /in, I'll have to kick out one of the V/LA people to get it started.
Thanks for waiting for me! ;D But really, don't hesitate to start it without me.  I don't want to hold you up.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 12/13)
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2013, 09:43:48 pm »

This is immediately starting after RMM6, since nkirbt will /in when that's over and apparently Kooshie is back (correct me, either of you, if I'm wrong). But I didn't realize that sudgy's long V/LA was 16 days! So I think we have three options:

1. Someone replaces sudgy before the game starts.

2. We begin playing, as intended, after RMM6 finishes, and have sudgy be subbed out on Independence Day, or not at all if he dies before his V/LA.

3. We wait until sudgy gets back to start

I've listed by most favorable to least favorable. If someone from RMM6 who's not already playing wants another round of madness, they can just /in here. Number two would work fairly well, but I don't want people's perceptions to be skewed about getting sudgy lynched just so they don't have to sub him out. And number 3 is super not favorable because a lot of people (including me) will be antsy to get another game started after RMM6 ends.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Open! 12/13)
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2013, 10:32:03 pm »

Well scratch that. Kooshie's is leaving in 2 weeks. Hm.
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Well, I just got killed in RMM6 (Boo!), so officially /in.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups sort of closed. See thread)
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2013, 02:04:15 am »

I will be V/LA from the 29th through the 7th, but I should still be available sporadically throughout the day, especially in the evenings.  If that's too much of a problem, I can drop out...

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups sort of closed. See thread)
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2013, 02:09:42 am »

I will be V/LA from the 29th through the 7th, but I should still be available sporadically throughout the day, especially in the evenings.  If that's too much of a problem, I can drop out...

Me and Kooshie's problems are worse...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups sort of closed. See thread)
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2013, 02:42:35 am »

That should be fine Ahoppy, as long as you have some sort of availability.

As much as I want both you and Kooshie to play, I'm trying to arrange for people to replace you. It really really sucks, but I just don't want to have to sub out players in the middle of the gam when I can easily  prevent now.

You'll have absolutely 0 access, right?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups sort of closed. See thread)
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2013, 02:50:14 am »

That should be fine Ahoppy, as long as you have some sort of availability.

As much as I want both you and Kooshie to play, I'm trying to arrange for people to replace you. It really really sucks, but I just don't want to have to sub out players in the middle of the gam when I can easily  prevent now.

You'll have absolutely 0 access, right?

Very limited access the first week (Disneyland), and no access the second (Camping).  So no access.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups sort of closed. See thread)
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2013, 03:10:49 am »

That should be fine Ahoppy, as long as you have some sort of availability.

As much as I want both you and Kooshie to play, I'm trying to arrange for people to replace you. It really really sucks, but I just don't want to have to sub out players in the middle of the gam when I can easily  prevent now.

You'll have absolutely 0 access, right?

Very limited access the first week (Disneyland), and no access the second (Camping).  So no access.
Aw, darn. Well have fun!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! 11/13)
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2013, 08:52:52 am »

Okay, I need to play an RMM game sometime.  My non-mafia games are minimal at the moment, and this sounds like fun, so I'll \in.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! 11/13)
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2013, 11:12:07 am »

Okay, I need to play an RMM game sometime.  My non-mafia games are minimal at the moment, and this sounds like fun, so I'll \in.
Yay!!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! One more needed!)
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2013, 11:02:28 pm »

Okay, I need to play an RMM game sometime.  My non-mafia games are minimal at the moment, and this sounds like fun, so I'll \in.
Yay!!
Hooray! I have a feeling you'll enjoy this one, theorel.

I'm sorry to say that I'm going to take both sudgy and Kooshie out. Nothing personal at all, but I think it'd be better for everyone as a whole if we played with the least amount of possibilities of subins as possible.

With that said, we need just one more! I've talked to a couple people who've showed some interest in joining, but I haven't had one to say if they are for sure /in or not. And if it's alright with everyone, I plan on starting this game immediately after signups have filled. If you remember, we have the No kill N0 Start, so I don't think it will collide with RMM6 and there is a bit of a lull with only a few players in games.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! One more needed!)
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2013, 11:22:56 pm »

Come on liopoil/Jimmmmmm we just need one more!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! One more needed!)
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2013, 11:23:05 pm »

Looks like raerae is our lucky winner!

With signups now full, I am sending a PM out to everyone. Please reply with '/confirm' to show that you are still playing. Once everyone has confirmed, roles will be sent out and the game will begin!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! 11/13)
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2013, 11:23:30 pm »

Okay, I need to play an RMM game sometime.  My non-mafia games are minimal at the moment, and this sounds like fun, so I'll \in.
Never played with you.

Well, it's good to meet new people.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! One more needed!)
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2013, 11:23:45 pm »

Looks like raerae is our lucky winner!

With signups now full, I am sending a PM out to everyone. Please reply with '/confirm' to show that you are still playing. Once everyone has confirmed, roles will be sent out and the game will begin!
YEAH!

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! One more needed!)
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2013, 11:26:28 pm »

Looks like raerae is our lucky winner!

With signups now full, I am sending a PM out to everyone. Please reply with '/confirm' to show that you are still playing. Once everyone has confirmed, roles will be sent out and the game will begin!

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups open! One more needed!)
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2013, 11:27:19 pm »

Looks like raerae is our lucky winner!

With signups now full, I am sending a PM out to everyone. Please reply with '/confirm' to show that you are still playing. Once everyone has confirmed, roles will be sent out and the game will begin!



I have to actually make the setup first
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Closed! Confirm your /inness!)
« Reply #71 on: June 20, 2013, 02:28:18 am »

Confirm.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Closed! Confirm your /inness!)
« Reply #72 on: June 20, 2013, 06:09:14 am »

confirmed.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Closed! Confirm your /inness!)
« Reply #73 on: June 20, 2013, 03:45:42 pm »

Well we're waiting for EFHW, but she's posted elsewhere, so I assume she knows.

This thread is now locked. Axxle is briefly reviewing the setup (and anyone who wants to can too), so once he's done and I've made any necessary minor adjustments, I'll send out Role PMs and the game will begin!

Thread Locked.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Signups Closed!)
« Reply #74 on: June 21, 2013, 06:03:13 pm »

Role PMs are being sent out so PLEASE remember while playing that...

1. I don't follow a strict uniform for all Role PMs or powers or anything, so I'll word things differently however I want; regardless of a player's alignment. So please don't auto-lynch somebody because the wording on their claim doesn't completely add up with yours.

2. N0 Start, ya'll. You have 48 hours to get your actions in, and then a 24 hour period for combining objects. Nights won't usually be this long, but it's a new game and the weekend, so I'll be generous.

3. Flavor is important, so watch what you claim. It may be more detrimental to your team that you may think.

4. There are no made up roles, but I have put some twists on some standard roles. Still, there's nothing too insane you should be worried about.

5. Things may be a bit confusing, so if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask me. I want this first night to run as smoothly and error-free as possible.

6. Big shout out to Axxle for reviewing and tweaking this setup. I can't thank you enough.

7. Have fun! It's just a game! I'll take any action I see necessary to ensure everyone's having a good time. But the prevent rather than mitigate any problems, all you guys need to do is just remember the Civility Pledge. Thanks!


And now without further ado...the Role PMs! You may start submitting actions as soon as you receive yours. If you haven't received one in the next half an hour, let me know.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (N0 Start!)
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2013, 06:06:29 pm »

And to clear up any confusion:

Town is green and their wincon is: "Eliminate all threats to the Town". Town wincons aren't included in your Role PM, so look here

Scum will have their own alignment and wincon found in their Role PM.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (N0 Start!)
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2013, 07:00:03 pm »

Alright, they're all out.

No rush, but you have ~48 hours to get your night actions in.

Good luck!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (N0 Start!)
« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2013, 02:29:07 am »

/tag
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (N0 Start!)
« Reply #78 on: June 24, 2013, 01:36:25 pm »

In the near distant future...

A man with no name designs a Time Machine and starts up a company by the name of 'Innovation Inc.'. Using his invention he manages to hire the greatest inventors our world as ever known to bring innovation to this unoriginal world. The pay may not be great, but they all get to do the thing they all love: Invent. But looks like not everyone is as big of a boon to humanity as they are perceived...

Today is the first day of the job.


--

At the crack of dawn, the CEO gathers up all 13 employees into the main lobby with his faithful associate Archetype at his side.

"Welcome to Innovation Incorporated!" He yells. Everyone cheers gleefully.

"I hope you all were able to meet with one another last night and get to know each other. Hopefully you put those complimentary items to good use! Now then, let's get down to business. Our deadline is this week and we need to-"

The BANG! of gunfire echoed around the lobby. Everyone looked around for where it could've come from, but then Archetype yelled that the CEO had been shot. The medical staff rushes over to try and keep him alive, but it's no use. The bullet had pierced his abdomen and he was loosing blood too quickly. Archetype neels down next the CEO and grabs his head. But there was nothing they could do (health care hasn't improved much either).

In his dying breath, the CEO whispers into Archetype's ear, "...no one leaves...until my killer is caught..." The CEO gives one last breathe, then slumps over. Dead.

Archetype carefully releases the CEO's head and stands up, motioning to the medical staff to take care of the body. He grabs the microphone and shouts angrily into it, "You heard the man! Board up the windows, lock the doors, engage the alarm! No one leaves the building until we find who's responsible for this!"


Day 1 Start!


Not Voting (13) ashersky, Eevee, xieron, raerae, mail-mi, Twistedarcher, chairs, shraeye, AHoppy, EFHW, spiritbears, theorel, nkirbit.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.


(I will remind you all one last time to make sure to read post #2 and constantly refer back to it and your Role PM. It'll be more useful than you think.)


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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #79 on: June 24, 2013, 01:39:32 pm »

First: first!

Second: Vote: Robz
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #80 on: June 24, 2013, 01:40:26 pm »

First: first!

Second: Vote: Robz
Second in. vote mai
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #81 on: June 24, 2013, 01:40:55 pm »

Sorry. That just had to be done
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #82 on: June 24, 2013, 01:41:07 pm »

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #83 on: June 24, 2013, 01:50:19 pm »

Double OMGUS!!!
vote vote mai mai
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2013, 01:55:14 pm »

Yay for a new game.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2013, 01:58:04 pm »

Hi everyone!

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2013, 02:06:51 pm »

Yay for a new game.
Super scummy Vote: xeiron
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #87 on: June 24, 2013, 02:21:17 pm »

Hi everyone!
vote ta
The death cart cult does not approve
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2013, 02:26:38 pm »

Hi everyone!
Hi! I love how friendly we're being given someone has just been shot...

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2013, 02:27:54 pm »

Hi everyone!
Hi! I love how friendly we're being given someone has just been shot...
Sarcasm?!?!?!?! Vote: ahops
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2013, 02:28:04 pm »

Hi everyone!
Hi! I love how friendly we're being given someone has just been shot...
Shows knowledge and forethought of a "shooting"
vote ahop
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2013, 02:34:32 pm »

Hi everyone!
Hi! I love how friendly we're being given someone has just been shot...
Shows knowledge and forethought of a "shooting"
vote ahop

Shows that someone hasn't read the flavor ;)

More seriously, though, given that we actually had a N0, we should be able to skip RVS -- RVS is silly, anyways.

Obviously, it doesn't lead us any closer to actually finding out who the scum are, but I think theory discussion would be useful this game, provided that we're very, very careful about not giving anything away without thinking it through first.

One of the warnings in the OP discussed that claiming could potentially be terrible for town, and give scum large advantages. I think anyone who wants to come into D1 claiming anything should be very wary about it, and make sure it's what they want to do. And I'm 100% against claiming ANY combinations at this point.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2013, 02:36:11 pm »

Well...maybe not ANY combinations, I suppose. But I'd be very careful. Just saying that people should make sure they keep their information private, and consider whether or not making something public knowledge would potentially be more beneficial to town or to scum.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2013, 02:40:42 pm »

Anybody claiming D1 will get my vote no matter what.  Seriously.  Don't do it.

TA, what theory talk are you interested in?  I despise theory talk almost as much as claiming but fully understand I'm in the minority there.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #94 on: June 24, 2013, 02:47:57 pm »

Anybody claiming D1 will get my vote no matter what.  Seriously.  Don't do it.

TA, what theory talk are you interested in?  I despise theory talk almost as much as claiming but fully understand I'm in the minority there.

I don't know, exactly. I'm sure it's going to come up -- flavor-claiming, definitely not role-claiming, but some combination. It's too central to this game to not have it come up at some point today. I'm sure Ashersky or someone will come in with a great post to move the game forward, and I think it should absolutely be discussed, but unless there's a compelling reason, I'm going to stand against claiming.

I completely understand your opposition to claiming -- but why do you dislike theory? From my point of view, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere, if people are careful about it, it gets good discussions going, makes people put in an opinion on the theory, and can sometimes be beneficial.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #95 on: June 24, 2013, 02:49:54 pm »

Vote Count 1.0

AHoppy (2) spiritbears, mail-mi

Not Voting: (11) ashersky, Eevee, xeiron, raerae, mail-mi, Twistedarcher, chairs, shraeye, AHoppy, EFHW, theorel, nkirbit.


Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #96 on: June 24, 2013, 02:53:11 pm »

Wow, that's a looooong D1. Since we're using bankable time we definitely should have a soft deadline.

The end of next week seems like it would give us enough time, but that's 4th of july for us Americans. Would before or after that weekend be better for everyone?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #97 on: June 24, 2013, 02:56:19 pm »

Anybody claiming D1 will get my vote no matter what.  Seriously.  Don't do it.

TA, what theory talk are you interested in?  I despise theory talk almost as much as claiming but fully understand I'm in the minority there.

I don't know, exactly. I'm sure it's going to come up -- flavor-claiming, definitely not role-claiming, but some combination. It's too central to this game to not have it come up at some point today. I'm sure Ashersky or someone will come in with a great post to move the game forward, and I think it should absolutely be discussed, but unless there's a compelling reason, I'm going to stand against claiming.

I completely understand your opposition to claiming -- but why do you dislike theory? From my point of view, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere, if people are careful about it, it gets good discussions going, makes people put in an opinion on the theory, and can sometimes be beneficial.

It doesn't lead anything anywhere and people end up thinking other people are scummy for disagreeing with their position and then it's usually town on town or scum on town so town loses no matter what.  Also, it wastes a ton of time and pages and then rereads suck.  That's my opinion anyway.  I understand games have to start somewhere and that 'somewhere' is usually RVS or theory but that doesn't mean I like it.

Once again, I will vote anybody claiming anything related to their role/flavor/favorite deli meat/etc. today.  Claiming screws over town and is too easy to fake as scum.  Don't give them that opportunity and they actually have to work to win. 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #98 on: June 24, 2013, 02:57:32 pm »

Anybody claiming D1 will get my vote no matter what.  Seriously.  Don't do it.

TA, what theory talk are you interested in?  I despise theory talk almost as much as claiming but fully understand I'm in the minority there.

I don't know, exactly. I'm sure it's going to come up -- flavor-claiming, definitely not role-claiming, but some combination. It's too central to this game to not have it come up at some point today. I'm sure Ashersky or someone will come in with a great post to move the game forward, and I think it should absolutely be discussed, but unless there's a compelling reason, I'm going to stand against claiming.

I completely understand your opposition to claiming -- but why do you dislike theory? From my


Once again, I will vote anybody claiming anything related to their role/flavor/favorite deli meat/etc. today.  Claiming screws over town and is too easy to fake as scum.  Don't give them that opportunity and they actually have to work to win.
My favorite deli meat is ham
,
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #99 on: June 24, 2013, 02:58:07 pm »

Anybody claiming D1 will get my vote no matter what.  Seriously.  Don't do it.

TA, what theory talk are you interested in?  I despise theory talk almost as much as claiming but fully understand I'm in the minority there.

I don't know, exactly. I'm sure it's going to come up -- flavor-claiming, definitely not role-claiming, but some combination. It's too central to this game to not have it come up at some point today. I'm sure Ashersky or someone will come in with a great post to move the game forward, and I think it should absolutely be discussed, but unless there's a compelling reason, I'm going to stand against claiming.

I completely understand your opposition to claiming -- but why do you dislike theory? From my point of view, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere, if people are careful about it, it gets good discussions going, makes people put in an opinion on the theory, and can sometimes be beneficial.

It doesn't lead anything anywhere and people end up thinking other people are scummy for disagreeing with their position and then it's usually town on town or scum on town so town loses no matter what.  Also, it wastes a ton of time and pages and then rereads suck.  That's my opinion anyway.  I understand games have to start somewhere and that 'somewhere' is usually RVS or theory but that doesn't mean I like it.

Once again, I will vote anybody claiming anything related to their role/flavor/favorite deli meat/etc. today.  Claiming screws over town and is too easy to fake as scum.  Don't give them that opportunity and they actually have to work to win.
My favorite deli meat is ham!

Quoting fixed
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #100 on: June 24, 2013, 02:59:31 pm »

Vote: mail-mi for picking the wrong favorite and claiming.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #101 on: June 24, 2013, 03:01:10 pm »

Guys, this is clearly a town-on-town argument. Just because mail-mi's really,really,really, extremely wrong doesn't make him scummy!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #102 on: June 24, 2013, 03:02:26 pm »

Turkey is better. Pastrami is best though.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #103 on: June 24, 2013, 03:03:54 pm »

Turkey is better. Pastrami is best though.
Ooh totally forgot about pastrami yep that's my favorite.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #104 on: June 24, 2013, 03:04:27 pm »

Btw, I do understand that position Raerae. I guess we disagree on how potentially useful it can be, but that's a minor enough point.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #105 on: June 24, 2013, 03:05:23 pm »

Turkey is better. Pastrami is best though.
The second part is correct even if the first part is totally horribly scummily wrong

And raerae is completely right about that horrid theory talk...
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #106 on: June 24, 2013, 03:18:22 pm »

Turkey is better. Pastrami is best though.
The second part is correct even if the first part is totally horribly scummily wrong

And raerae is completely right about that horrid theory talk...
Well the turkey has to be seasoned...

And I agree, the theory talk isn't the best, but where do you suggest we start then?

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #107 on: June 24, 2013, 03:22:34 pm »

Turkey is better. Pastrami is best though.
The second part is correct even if the first part is totally horribly scummily wrong

And raerae is completely right about that horrid theory talk...
Well the turkey has to be seasoned...

And I agree, the theory talk isn't the best, but where do you suggest we start then?
We could start by lynching lurkers....that seems to get the ball rolling usually...
unvote till I can see who's avoiding our fun game here
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #108 on: June 24, 2013, 03:24:08 pm »

vote ash
For not immediately winning the post count race
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #109 on: June 24, 2013, 03:27:02 pm »

Well he is in Australia right? Isn't that 5:30am there? I'm sure he'll start posting up a storm in a few hours

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #110 on: June 24, 2013, 03:29:04 pm »

Ok. But even with the time dif is expect at least 35 posts by now...
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #111 on: June 24, 2013, 03:50:02 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #112 on: June 24, 2013, 03:51:38 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Anything more? Or would it cause you to claim?

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #113 on: June 24, 2013, 03:53:37 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Right on cue and legitimizing my vote to boot!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #114 on: June 24, 2013, 04:03:15 pm »

Nice explanation, Ash.  Totally a compelling case.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #115 on: June 24, 2013, 04:12:44 pm »

Vote Count 1.1

AHoppy (1) mail-mi
mail-mi (1) raerae
ashersky (1) spiritbears
raerae (1) ashersky

Not Voting: (9)Eevee, xeiron, mail-mi, Twistedarcher, chairs, shraeye, AHoppy, EFHW, theorel, nkirbit.


Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #116 on: June 24, 2013, 04:22:31 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Is it because she doesn't like theory?

And Unvote
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #117 on: June 24, 2013, 04:24:57 pm »

Anybody claiming D1 will get my vote no matter what.  Seriously.  Don't do it.

TA, what theory talk are you interested in?  I despise theory talk almost as much as claiming but fully understand I'm in the minority there.

I completely understand your opposition to claiming -- but why do you dislike theory? From my point of view, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere, if people are careful about it, it gets good discussions going, makes people put in an opinion on the theory, and can sometimes be beneficial.

It doesn't lead anything anywhere and people end up thinking other people are scummy for disagreeing with their position and then it's usually town on town or scum on town so town loses no matter what.  Also, it wastes a ton of time and pages and then rereads suck.  That's my opinion anyway.  I understand games have to start somewhere and that 'somewhere' is usually RVS or theory but that doesn't mean I like it.
Raerae and I  (for new players who don't know, we 'know' eachother in real life; and I'm literally in her house right now) have often talked to eachother about theory stuff.  The problem I find with theory talk is that people reach irreconcilable differences based on how they think about the game.  and then, Person A assumes that because Person B "isn't being reasonable, and is scummily disagreeing even though they know they're wrong."  And we run down the idiotic path of "these two are arguing; that means there's one scum in A/B!".

But theory in small doses is useful, I suppose.  Like, if somebody has discovered any quirks about this setup that are useful to know, I want to know them.  I just don't want the thread totally swamped in a useless back and forth.  I can't speak for raerae specifically, but it seems that she's essentially saying that.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #118 on: June 24, 2013, 04:26:29 pm »

Also, vote: Twistedarcher

not RVS.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #119 on: June 24, 2013, 04:28:00 pm »

Well he is in Australia right? Isn't that 5:30am there? I'm sure he'll start posting up a storm in a few hours
Have you played with ashersky before?  Would you say ashersky is normally one of the more talkative players?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #120 on: June 24, 2013, 04:29:44 pm »

Also, vote: Twistedarcher

not RVS.

Then why?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #121 on: June 24, 2013, 04:30:28 pm »

I was assuming Ashersky was planning on coming back with reasons when he had time
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #122 on: June 24, 2013, 04:38:27 pm »

Well he is in Australia right? Isn't that 5:30am there? I'm sure he'll start posting up a storm in a few hours
Have you played with ashersky before?  Would you say ashersky is normally one of the more talkative players?
I played with him in my only other game I've played, which you modded... (mean girls).  In that game, yes he was pretty talkative. 

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #123 on: June 24, 2013, 04:40:34 pm »

vote: shraeye

Kind of RVS (He's running the other game I'm playing).

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #124 on: June 24, 2013, 05:01:07 pm »

So now we're all just voting without reasons but clarifying it isn't RVS? 

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #125 on: June 24, 2013, 05:02:17 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #126 on: June 24, 2013, 05:06:27 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #127 on: June 24, 2013, 05:15:05 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?

Getting a game started can be hard.. if this is what people want to do to try and get it started, I have no problem with it.  I'm taking very little (if any) of it seriously, though.

What do you think?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #128 on: June 24, 2013, 05:20:26 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #129 on: June 24, 2013, 05:22:35 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?

Getting a game started can be hard.. if this is what people want to do to try and get it started, I have no problem with it.  I'm taking very little (if any) of it seriously, though.

What do you think?

Well, when somebody says they're seriously voting for somebody, I...erm...take that seriously.  Two people specifically stated their votes aren't RVS yet you still think they're joking? 

In your dream world, how would you get this game started?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #130 on: June 24, 2013, 05:22:52 pm »

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #131 on: June 24, 2013, 05:24:10 pm »

I didn't kill him, I swear.

What do you think about all this random not random voting?

Getting a game started can be hard.. if this is what people want to do to try and get it started, I have no problem with it.  I'm taking very little (if any) of it seriously, though.

What do you think?

Well, when somebody says they're seriously voting for somebody, I...erm...take that seriously.  Two people specifically stated their votes aren't RVS yet you still think they're joking? 

In your dream world, how would you get this game started?

I'll take them seriously when they come back with reasons.  Until then, I won't.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #132 on: June 24, 2013, 05:26:43 pm »

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.

Obviously, this isn't like the most solid suspicion ever, but they could be throwing out there that they find someone scummy to see if anyone else will pull anything there. Like, for example, but Ashersky could be throwing Raerae out there, causing me to go and re-read Raerae's last couple of posts for something scummy, and see if anything gains momentum. It's a pretty easy way to say "Go reread this person! I think she's scummy!" but also back off and say it was actually just RVS.

I never read it as a joke...when they said it wasn't RVS I took them seriously. If there's joking about it, it's a silly misleading joke, and misleading is never good for townmembers. I really don't think either vote was a joke.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #133 on: June 24, 2013, 05:27:12 pm »

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.

Even though they SPECIFICALLY said their votes are not RVS? 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #134 on: June 24, 2013, 05:32:49 pm »

With threads like this, I'm going to have to start a bible on you guys to refer to in future games  :P

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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #135 on: June 24, 2013, 05:33:16 pm »

This is also one of those games where claiming, if not done smartly, can easily be abused by scum (*cough* me in RMM3 *cough*). It may not always be wise to immediately claim that you know the specific combination for the 'Cop' power as scum can use that for their own malicious purposes... Flavor is also fairly important in this game. Not only when trying to figure out which objects match up to which power roles, but also in the general storyline as well as in PMs.

I believe this post is the one everyone expected.

So, as anyone who has played this game with me knows, I LOVE claiming.  Probably as much as raerae HATES claiming.  Let me break down why I am correct 100% of the time and raerae is only correct 90% of the time, in the context of this game.

I've played every single Archetype game on f.ds (I think).  I've been on multiple teams with Archetype.  We've co-modded together.  Reading my PM, and thinking back on other games, I believe I understand where he's coming from with the post above.

(As an aside, I totally get shraeye's point for why he is generally not a fan of theory talk, which I think is inseparable from claiming.  Unlike raerae, who just has a visceral reaction to it, shraeye has a sensible reason, which is almost always true.  Players DO come up with ideas about the set-up, and then they DO try to fit everyone into it, and then they DO let that paint the way they see other players in the game.  Set-up theory is NOT scumhunting.  It is a useful tool though, if you don't let it decide who is and isn't scum for you.)

So, what do we know (publically)?  It's RMM, so we can assume no traditional "VT" roles.  There are "inventions" we make from stuff.  More stuff generally = better inventions.  We have to guess from a list to figure it out.

And that's it.  We don't know the number of scum, or scum teams.  We don't know anything whatsoever about the PRs in the game.  We don't know a bunch of other stuff.

BUT!  We do know stuff.  I know stuff.  You know stuff.  We also know about "stuff" in the context of the game.  Each of us has more information than the other.  What we don't know is how sharing that information can help town (or scum).

So.  Mass claiming.  It's a hobby of mine.  I design games with claiming in mind.  I build in fake claims into my scum roles.  As an example, in Ninjas and Samurai, a normal game, I provided fake claims within the scum flavor without ever saying "here's your fake claim!"  Because here's the thing: if a massclaim breaks the game, or ends the game with little to no effort, that doesn't make for a fun game.  So mods do their best to take that into consideration (and sometimes fail horribly, like me and what I thought was going to be the awesomest blitz game ever).

What could we mass claim here?  Roles?  Check.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Check.  Night action Results?  Check.

What SHOULD we mass claim here?  Roles?  No way.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Nope.  Night action Results? 

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum AND not outed a power role.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases. 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #136 on: June 24, 2013, 05:34:07 pm »

Also, I'm not currently sure who raerae's partners are.  Not enough posts in the game to make any determinations yet.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #137 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:12 pm »

I agree generally with what you're saying, but how does this make Raerae scummy? Her visceral reaction to claiming is present when she's town, as well.
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #138 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:27 pm »

Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.

Ash, you should just make this your signature or something if you're going to keep bringing it up :P
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #139 on: June 24, 2013, 05:39:50 pm »

I believe this post is the one everyone expected.

So, as anyone who has played this game with me knows, I LOVE claiming.  Probably as much as raerae HATES claiming.  Let me break down why I am correct 100% of the time and raerae is only correct 90% of the time, in the context of this game.

...

What SHOULD we mass claim here?  Roles?  No way.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Nope.  Night action Results? 

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum AND not outed a power role.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.

It does seem odd that for someone who professes to be correct 100% of the time that claiming is good, you don't seem to want to claim here.
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #140 on: June 24, 2013, 05:41:07 pm »

I believe this post is the one everyone expected.

So, as anyone who has played this game with me knows, I LOVE claiming.  Probably as much as raerae HATES claiming.  Let me break down why I am correct 100% of the time and raerae is only correct 90% of the time, in the context of this game.

...

What SHOULD we mass claim here?  Roles?  No way.  Invention/stuff/guessing/combinations information?  Nope.  Night action Results? 

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum AND not outed a power role.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.

It does seem odd that for someone who professes to be correct 100% of the time that claiming is good, you don't seem to want to claim here.

I'm correct 100% of the time given I love claiming.  I also temper that with knowing when we should and shouldn't claim.  I'm going to send yuma into a tizzy now because he's not in this game and can't post, but we would have so demolished his team had we all just followed my plan on Masons and Monks.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #141 on: June 24, 2013, 05:41:27 pm »

Also, hyperbole.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #142 on: June 24, 2013, 06:13:15 pm »

Also, vote: Twistedarcher

not RVS.

Are you SURE?? Or are you joking?
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #143 on: June 24, 2013, 06:13:54 pm »

I'm correct 100% of the time given I love claiming.  I also temper that with knowing when we should and shouldn't claim.  I'm going to send yuma into a tizzy now because he's not in this game and can't post, but we would have so demolished his team had we all just followed my plan on Masons and Monks.
I'll tizzy for him - no way!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2013, 06:15:48 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
If you are going to be very suspicious, that means you think scum could benefit from doing this.  How so?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2013, 06:17:28 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #146 on: June 24, 2013, 06:20:47 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
If you are going to be very suspicious, that means you think scum could benefit from doing this.  How so?
nvm, I see you answered this already.  It does seem to draw more attention to the voter than the votee, though.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #147 on: June 24, 2013, 06:23:03 pm »

I'm assuming and hoping that people are coming back with reasons. If not, then I'm not going to take any of it seriously, and I'll be very suspicious of Ashersky + Shraeye.
If you are going to be very suspicious, that means you think scum could benefit from doing this.  How so?

It's in reply #133 (or maybe one or two off, I remember that being an issue with us before - are your post #s still different than mine?). But basically, it could be trying to get someone else to make a case, or read a person more closely, to see if there's anything there. And it's simply enough to back off and be like "Just kidding, guys, it was a joke!" if no one comes up with anything. Ash and Shraeye also arent the two people I would pick as most likely to make a RVS-but-not-RVS joke, anyways, so it would be odd, at the very least.

Once again though I seriously doubt either was RVS or a joke
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #148 on: June 24, 2013, 06:24:53 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.

I think D2 we'll have a better idea of how claiming may or may not help us.  I think D3 we definitely claim.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #149 on: June 24, 2013, 06:34:10 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.


The puzzle aspect certainly makes it more fun. But right now, there's nothing we really gain. We favor claim, and I'm sure scum will have good fakeclaims more than likely. Combination claiming doesn't help guide us to a correct lynch today. Results claim, that could work, but once again, someone with a correct result should try to guide us to the correct lynch rather than coming out immediately. So yeah, claiming's probably not great today, and we should just play it like a normal day I suppose.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #150 on: June 24, 2013, 06:37:44 pm »

To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #151 on: June 24, 2013, 06:38:55 pm »

LOL, and I see Twistedarcher mentioned the downside to flavor claim while I was writing  :P

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #152 on: June 24, 2013, 06:42:04 pm »

To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

Haha, yeah, I beat you on this. I think the only utility to this would be to catching scum in a lie later. The downside is that if roles presuppose items (which they probably do, I'm sure), it gives scum information that could help to possibly guide their NKs.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #153 on: June 24, 2013, 06:46:56 pm »

To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

Where did you get those names?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #154 on: June 24, 2013, 06:48:34 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.

Nice explanation, Ash.  Totally a compelling case.

I agree this is the most compelling case we have so I will sheep Ashersky and vote: Raerae.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #155 on: June 24, 2013, 06:52:10 pm »

Oh my gosh.  Let's mass claim everything we know and then name the scum team D1, shall we, Ash?  Because you're never ever wrong, are you?  And you've never ever fake-claimed as scum, have you?  And town has never ever lynched one of their two PRs after believing your fake-claim, have they?

Also, kermit, question in case you missed it.

Why would you be suspicious?  Even if they don't have reasons, it looks like a joke to me.

Even though they SPECIFICALLY said their votes are not RVS?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #156 on: June 24, 2013, 06:53:02 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.

Nice explanation, Ash.  Totally a compelling case.

I agree this is the most compelling case we have so I will sheep Ashersky and vote: Raerae.
Is this RVS?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #157 on: June 24, 2013, 06:53:44 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.

Nice explanation, Ash.  Totally a compelling case.

I agree this is the most compelling case we have so I will sheep Ashersky and vote: Raerae.

Or you could actually try to play this game and come up with one of your own? 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #158 on: June 24, 2013, 06:55:23 pm »

I still want to hear why Ashersky's post in any way implicates Raerae as scum - I must be missing something.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #159 on: June 24, 2013, 07:01:09 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Anything more? Or would it cause you to claim?

Going claim fishing there, AHoppy?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #160 on: June 24, 2013, 07:04:53 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Anything more? Or would it cause you to claim?

Going claim fishing there, AHoppy?

Eh, I think it's a fair question. He's asking for more, but saying that if it's something Ashersky shouldn't say, he'd understand that..
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #161 on: June 24, 2013, 07:07:32 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Anything more? Or would it cause you to claim?

Going claim fishing there, AHoppy?

Eh, I think it's a fair question. He's asking for more, but saying that if it's something Ashersky shouldn't say, he'd understand that..

I'd love to hear his answer.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #162 on: June 24, 2013, 07:08:25 pm »

I still want to hear why Ashersky's post in any way implicates Raerae as scum - I must be missing something.

I am not sure if it was intentional but this could be seen as a softclaim:

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I was scum and claimed I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum a power role AND not outed a power role scum.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #163 on: June 24, 2013, 07:10:23 pm »

I still want to hear why Ashersky's post in any way implicates Raerae as scum - I must be missing something.

I am not sure if it was intentional but this could be seen as a softclaim:

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I was scum and claimed I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum a power role AND not outed a power role scum.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.

If you think it's a soft claim, why are you pointing it out? Now, if it's true, you've put Ash in a bad spot! I figured he was just speaking generally, but dang, you could be right, but I wish you hadn't have pointed it out.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #164 on: June 24, 2013, 07:10:45 pm »

Vote: Xerion

Trying to out a role.  This conversation can nowhere but forcing Ash to confirm or deny the validity of your accusation.  If I'm wrong, what where you hoping to accomplish with that post.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #165 on: June 24, 2013, 07:11:32 pm »

vote: raerae

Not RVS.
Anything more? Or would it cause you to claim?

Going claim fishing there, AHoppy?

Eh, I think it's a fair question. He's asking for more, but saying that if it's something Ashersky shouldn't say, he'd understand that..

I'd love to hear his answer.
TA had it right.  I was trying to figure out why he didn't say more, and that was the only reason I could see

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #166 on: June 24, 2013, 07:13:27 pm »

To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.
Well, all I know is if I were making this game, Tesla would most certainly not be scum, but Edison would.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #167 on: June 24, 2013, 07:14:27 pm »

Vote: Xerion

Trying to out a role.  This conversation can nowhere but forcing Ash to confirm or deny the validity of your accusation.  If I'm wrong, what where you hoping to accomplish with that post.

I strongly disagree with Xeiron's post, but I don't think it comes from scum. I'd imagine scum would be much more careful about potential role-fishing, and wouldn't want to put that possibility out there, knowing that they WILL catch flak for it..
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #168 on: June 24, 2013, 08:01:43 pm »

I still want to hear why Ashersky's post in any way implicates Raerae as scum - I must be missing something.

I am not sure if it was intentional but this could be seen as a softclaim:

Results?  Hmmmm.  Remember when I was scum and claimed I tracked mcmc and caught scum?  That was awesome.  Here's the thing; if folks had just listened to my hinting without forcing me to claim, we would have lynched scum a power role AND not outed a power role scum.  So my general belief if to NOT claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you have to, even if you caught scum.  Instead, just vote and make cases.

If you think it's a soft claim, why are you pointing it out? Now, if it's true, you've put Ash in a bad spot! I figured he was just speaking generally, but dang, you could be right, but I wish you hadn't have pointed it out.

I fail to see how I put Ashersky in a bad spot. Yes, He might be a PR, but since this is role madness there should be no shortage of power roles. If he has an investigative role and already know raerae is scum, I do think he should claim so sometime during D1. If he don't, and we lynch raerae based on softclaims/cases from Ashersky and she flips town, we won't know if he is scum or just mistaken town. Remember that in his exemple he flipped the alignments. Had we lynched mcmc in that game without ash needing to claim, we wouldn't have caught him(ash) as scum.
My general belief if to DO claim results from investigations/watching/tracking/etc. unless you do not have to, if you caught scum. We probably have one or more doctor/protection role so it is not instant death to claim cop.

I did point it out because it is the among the most interesting things I have found in this game by now, because it might mean Ashersky is building up for a claim. If he is, that claim may be a fake, just as likely as a real one. Ashersky just had huge success with preparing for and then fakeclaimimg as scum. He would probably consider doing something like that again.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #169 on: June 24, 2013, 08:15:38 pm »

Vote Count 1.2

xeiron (1) raerae
ashersky (1) spiritbears
raerae (2) ashersky, xeiron
Twistedarcher (1) shraeye
shraeye (1) chairs

Not Voting: (7) Eevee, mail-mi, Twistedarcher, AHoppy, EFHW, theorel, nkirbit.


Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #170 on: June 24, 2013, 08:16:41 pm »

Have Eevee or theorel posted yet?

Lurkers.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #171 on: June 24, 2013, 08:18:31 pm »

I would really like to hear from Eevee And theorel

Vote: eevee
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #172 on: June 24, 2013, 08:23:56 pm »

I always wish we could claim because more information means a better puzzle to figure out.  But I can't think of any way it would be helpful right now.


The puzzle aspect certainly makes it more fun. But right now, there's nothing we really gain. We favor claim, and I'm sure scum will have good fakeclaims more than likely. Combination claiming doesn't help guide us to a correct lynch today. Results claim, that could work, but once again, someone with a correct result should try to guide us to the correct lynch rather than coming out immediately. So yeah, claiming's probably not great today, and we should just play it like a normal day I suppose.

"Nothing we really gain" is probably incorrect; it's fairer to say that we won't realize what we've gained from a mass claim.  Scum, on the other hand, would gain MORE useful information out of the gate.

That's why I think the mass claim should come later.

The only way I see a mass claim work on D1 in this game is that every single town member full claims every single thing possible, then we take all that information and analyze it, THEN full claim again based on what we all learned from each other.  THEN we try to figure out the fake parts from scum.

And I think that's too hard to pull off due to the size of the endeavor, the high chance that some town refuse outright, and the risk involved in feeding all that info into raerae's hands to use against town.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #173 on: June 24, 2013, 08:38:24 pm »

To be fair, one fun thing we can (not necessarily should) do is discuss our flavor, which if I understand correctly does not give away our roles (e.g. is Nikola Tesla scum? is it one of the Wright brothers, perhaps? What can I get out of knowing Galileo is in our game?), it does give us perhaps some more information, if done well.  However, as with all information, how much will this benefit town vs how much will this benefit scum is going to be tricky, because (again, if I understand correctly) the scum win conditions may not entirely line up with traditional fare.

Where did you get those names?

Random famous duders from history.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2013, 10:10:01 pm »

You know, a lot of our roles are going to be 1-shot, based on getting combinations right. 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #175 on: June 24, 2013, 10:18:43 pm »

You know, a lot of our roles are going to be 1-shot, based on getting combinations right.

What? I think our roles and combinations are unrelated. Can you clarify this?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #176 on: June 24, 2013, 10:19:56 pm »

Ash I still don't know why you think raerae is scummy. Can you explain this?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #177 on: June 24, 2013, 10:23:53 pm »

You know, a lot of our roles are going to be 1-shot, based on getting combinations right.

What? I think our roles and combinations are unrelated. Can you clarify this?
The OP says if you guess a combination right you get a 1-shot power, in addition to your role from your PM.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #178 on: June 24, 2013, 10:31:36 pm »

You know, a lot of our roles are going to be 1-shot, based on getting combinations right.

What? I think our roles and combinations are unrelated. Can you clarify this?
The OP says if you guess a combination right you get a 1-shot power, in addition to your role from your PM.
It doesn't necessarily say one-shot
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #179 on: June 24, 2013, 10:38:33 pm »

Quote
One or more of the of the power roles in the list will be the correct choice, and if they choose a correct one, they will be granted that power role to be used the next night.

That makes it sound like one shot to me.  Just how I interpreted things.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #180 on: June 24, 2013, 10:39:17 pm »

Also, I'm not currently sure who raerae's partners are.  Not enough posts in the game to make any determinations yet.
I don't think Ash knows anything about raerae.  I think he's creating a provocation to see what happens.

Also, scum are going to have a really hard time if they try to chase down power roles.  Once they pinpoint one person as having used a role like cop or doctor, they can try to NK that person but the role could easily pop up somewhere else instead. 

I also think that we should think about using WIFOM to help town at least somewhat coordinate.  More on that later as we get a clearer sense of how things work.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #181 on: June 24, 2013, 10:42:19 pm »

I'm under the impression that claiming a result may actually not be that bad.  In a normal game, you might not want to as if you claim a cop result, that means your cop is almost certainly either getting killed or at the very least roleblocked that night.  But here, if cop is just a 1-time thing you get from combining a set of items, a cop result may not be horrible as when you claim and get killed, we don't actually lose a cop, just a person who at one point was a 1-time-cop.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #182 on: June 24, 2013, 10:43:59 pm »

I'm under the impression that claiming a result may actually not be that bad.  In a normal game, you might not want to as if you claim a cop result, that means your cop is almost certainly either getting killed or at the very least roleblocked that night.  But here, if cop is just a 1-time thing you get from combining a set of items, a cop result may not be horrible as when you claim and get killed, we don't actually lose a cop, just a person who at one point was a 1-time-cop.
AND we might have a watcher to see who targets that person.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #183 on: June 24, 2013, 10:45:37 pm »

But today, we have no results from 1-shot roles.  Tomorrow we might.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #184 on: June 24, 2013, 10:46:30 pm »

But today, we have no results from 1-shot roles.  Tomorrow we might.
I mean from 1-shot roles gained from combinations.  There might be other 1-shot roles who may choose to be quiet for the time being depending on what else they may be able to do.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #185 on: June 24, 2013, 10:50:36 pm »

Quote from: EFHW link=topic=8002.msg261202#msg261202
I also think that we should think about using WIFOM to help town at least somewhat coordinate.  More on that later as we get a clearer sense of how things work.

Obviously you might not be able to clarify but I have no idea what you mean by this...how would wifom not throw town off just as much?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #186 on: June 24, 2013, 11:27:50 pm »

Quote from: EFHW link=topic=8002.msg261202#msg261202
I also think that we should think about using WIFOM to help town at least somewhat coordinate.  More on that later as we get a clearer sense of how things work.
Obviously you might not be able to clarify but I have no idea what you mean by this...how would wifom not throw town off just as much?
I'll say more D2 if it looks like it would be helpful.  I'm just trying to figure out a means of communication that would help townies maybe get items they need but still leave enough unclarity that scum wouldn't have clear targets.  Whispering would also be nice.  I bring it up now so other people can be thinking about it too.  For example, a townie gets lynched and tells their item recipe for cop during twilight ...
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #187 on: June 24, 2013, 11:36:30 pm »

Clarification: Combinations can be used during any of the nights following its creation. They are NOT restricted to JUST the night after they're made.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #188 on: June 24, 2013, 11:55:27 pm »

Clarification: Combinations can be used during any of the nights following its creation. They are NOT restricted to JUST the night after they're made.
Told ja.

Also, I'm not currently sure who raerae's partners are.  Not enough posts in the game to make any determinations yet.
I don't think Ash knows anything about raerae.  I think he's creating a provocation to see what happens.

Also, scum are going to have a really hard time if they try to chase down power roles.  Once they pinpoint one person as having used a role like cop or doctor, they can try to NK that person but the role could easily pop up somewhere else instead. 

I also think that we should think about using WIFOM to help town at least somewhat coordinate.  More on that later as we get a clearer sense of how things work.
Ash's got bad tunnel vision on rarrae. I think him constantly pushing her and not giving any reason whatsoever is anti town. Vote: ashersky

WIFIM for town might be good.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #189 on: June 24, 2013, 11:57:04 pm »

Where is raerae to start yelling at people?

Everyone is giving away WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION with your "idle speculation."
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #190 on: June 25, 2013, 12:09:49 am »

What's "WIFOM" or "WIFIM"?

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #191 on: June 25, 2013, 12:16:16 am »

What's "WIFOM" or "WIFIM"?

Wine In Front OF Me.  It's from The Princess Bride.  You know, poison in one cup, the one in front of me or you, blah blah blah.

It's where caught scum says "chairs is my partner!" and then dies.  Did he say that to get us to mislynch chairs?  Or did he say that so we would think he was lying and was actually saving chairs?  Or was he saying that thinking it was a lie but really isn't so we do need to lynch him?

That's WIFOM.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #192 on: June 25, 2013, 12:43:11 am »

Question:  Would we be in that bad of a situation if we did a no-lynch?  What is the consensus on a D1 no lynch?  Assuming there are not that many scum, we don't have a great shot at hitting scum D1, so we'll probably just kill some of our PR's.  The only reason it would be good if we mislynch town is it gives us more information, which when using all our fancy PR's at night could be useful.  Don't get me wrong, a mislynch is terrible.  We are closer to losing, but at the same time it can give town more information about the setup and what kind of things to expect in the future.  Although, for all I know, RMM may be easier to spot scum D1.  I don't know, my only mafia experience I felt D1 was kinda just a lot of mudslinging that ended in a mislynch and the information didn't help much later (I didn't look back at D1 much, but maybe I should have).  Any thoughts?

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #193 on: June 25, 2013, 12:53:05 am »

Question:  Would we be in that bad of a situation if we did a no-lynch?  What is the consensus on a D1 no lynch?  Assuming there are not that many scum, we don't have a great shot at hitting scum D1, so we'll probably just kill some of our PR's.  The only reason it would be good if we mislynch town is it gives us more information, which when using all our fancy PR's at night could be useful.  Don't get me wrong, a mislynch is terrible.  We are closer to losing, but at the same time it can give town more information about the setup and what kind of things to expect in the future.  Although, for all I know, RMM may be easier to spot scum D1.  I don't know, my only mafia experience I felt D1 was kinda just a lot of mudslinging that ended in a mislynch and the information didn't help much later (I didn't look back at D1 much, but maybe I should have).  Any thoughts?

I could be convinced, given the setup and RMM nature of things.

But you are just going to take a bunch of flak for even bringing it up.
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #194 on: June 25, 2013, 12:57:35 am »

I figured I might, but I'm pleading inexperience.  I have to learn somehow, and it seems like a viable option to me.  Is it the best? No, lynching scum is the best.  But I'm know I can't read people well enough to do that D1, especially if scum are vets. 

mods:  What are we going to find out upon death?  Their role? Flavor? inventory? all of the above?  just their alignment?

ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #195 on: June 25, 2013, 12:59:49 am »

Post count!

ashersky: 14
Eevee: 0
xieron: 4
raerae: 13
mail-mi: 12
TwistedArcher: 22
chairs: 6
shraeye: 3
Ahoppy: 10
EFHW: 12
spiritbears: 10
theorel: 0
nkirbit: 8


Removed pre-game posts.  2 folks at ZERO.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #196 on: June 25, 2013, 01:04:52 am »

Removed pre-game posts.  2 folks at ZERO.
We can't have that.  And since I know Eevee better,
Vote: Eevee until you start participating

ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #197 on: June 25, 2013, 01:07:36 am »

Post count!

ashersky: 14
Eevee: 0
xieron: 4
raerae: 13
mail-mi: 12
TwistedArcher: 22
chairs: 6
shraeye: 3
Ahoppy: 10
EFHW: 12
spiritbears: 10
theorel: 0
nkirbit: 8


Removed pre-game posts.  2 folks at ZERO.

Not much to take away from here.  TA is higher than normal, Eevee lower than normal.  Everyone else is okay.  EFHW hasn't had a lot of content in her posts. 

This may be the first game for most of you with Theo, but he is a serial underposter.  He just doesn't have high posting numbers.  But he usually posts in-depth, long posts.  So expect that.

Raerae at scummy 13, as expected.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

nkirbit

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #198 on: June 25, 2013, 01:25:05 am »

Unless we have a good reason to no-lynch, I'd rather not.  I assume that the mafia have a NK, and while we certainly will be able to construct doctor roles, or roleblocking roles, or something along those lines, I don't think we should count on a NK not happening.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #199 on: June 25, 2013, 01:35:16 am »

Arch, are there potentially bastard roles that are constructable?  Like, can we make an invention to miller someone, or cult recruit?
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #200 on: June 25, 2013, 01:36:35 am »

I really don't agree with the no lynch idea.  But I don't fins you totally scummy for bringing it up.  It's just not helpful I think
Ash--very scummy tunneling Rae Rae...and yes, trying to paint her legitimate position as overly scummy is just scummy imo. My ash vote turned out to be s good one...sticking with this one
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #201 on: June 25, 2013, 01:57:08 am »

FWIW, Ahoppy, I asked about a no-lynch in my other game (albeit that one's AFAIK basically vanilla Mafia) and I may be our D1 lynch for it.  Apparently if you've an odd number of players, it's (usually) a bad idea.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #202 on: June 25, 2013, 01:58:46 am »

Chairs:  Just as a heads up, you really shouldn't be talking about other games that are still going on.  There are players who are in both games, and those who aren't probably reading both anyway.  Talking about completed games is fine, though.
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Archetype

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #203 on: June 25, 2013, 02:57:46 am »

I figured I might, but I'm pleading inexperience.  I have to learn somehow, and it seems like a viable option to me.  Is it the best? No, lynching scum is the best.  But I'm know I can't read people well enough to do that D1, especially if scum are vets. 

mods:  What are we going to find out upon death?  Their role? Flavor? inventory? all of the above?  just their alignment?
It's in OP#2, but Alignment, Flavor Name, and Role Name will all be revealed upon lynch and/or nightkill.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #204 on: June 25, 2013, 02:59:58 am »

Arch, are there potentially bastard roles that are constructable?  Like, can we make an invention to miller someone, or cult recruit?
No bastard roles whatsoever.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #205 on: June 25, 2013, 08:04:45 am »

I tried to post something last night, but I wasn't feeling well, and I got a new replies thing and maybe forgot to hit post again?  Anyways, it was sometime before ashersky's post.

Anyways, I find theory discussion useful and interesting in general, and am always willing to go in-depth into it.  I generally do so early because it's far more interesting than RVS (and usually helps transition out of RVS, and I don't believe it has the downside of people finding one another scummy for their positions on theory).

For this game in particular, as ash pointed out there are 3 things that can be claimed.  Roles, inventory-related things, and results.  There's of course also flavor names which are perhaps attached to inventory-related items.  But that's the claiming side of things.  I think there may be limited usefulness in claiming inventory-related things, but probably not right now.  BUT claiming is not the limit of theory talk, it's just a beginning.

There's also set-up speculation.  Which I think bit us in DS9 mafia, because we assumed there were 4 scum when there were 6 (it's possible extra speculation in the beginning would have saved us, but I don't know that we ever would have expected 6).  I'll just note we should be careful about the set-up, and any assumptions we may come to regarding it.  With 13 players, that's the size of CK9++ which means that 2-3 scum is a reasonable team-size with up to 1 Serial Killer (in addition).  This is NOT multi-ball so I think something in that vicinity is reasonable here as well, and hence it's what I'll be expecting.

Then there's the other part of theory.  Where we make plans and such to optimize the usefulness of PRs.  Now, in this game we know nothing about PRs.  BUT we all have these items.  There must be some way to share items, and it seems likely to me that we all have the same means of sharing them (though there may be additional ways in various PRs).  I think it may merit discussion to talk about how directing these sharings would be useful (or if not directing them would be better in people's opinions).  It seems to me like we want to spread the items around a decent amount, in order to maximize the number of power roles we have.  Ideally getting good combinations of items together, so that if I have an item that combines with a tube, I get a tube.

Of course, there are a few difficulties here.  In particular, how directed is our item sharing?  What do people need?  How do we NOT lose items that are powerful.  But I think at least some of these things merit discussion.

Finally, soft deadline.  Let's make one and try to get day1 done by then.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #206 on: June 25, 2013, 08:05:53 am »

*above should say sometime before ashersky's big post on claiming.  He had posted once at that time.  I'm not sure why that's relevant actually, but I was going to bring up some theory stuff, and ashersky did so...though he brought up slightly different stuff from me.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #207 on: June 25, 2013, 08:47:00 am »

Avoiding a mass claim is the only way we won the last role madness game.   Is that right in every case ever?  Probably not.  But every time I've seen a whole bunch of people claiming, it's screwed over town.  Have I played every game ever like some people here?  Nope, sure haven't.  Does that negate my experience?  Nope, sure doesn't. 

TA, who do you think is scummiest at this point?
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #208 on: June 25, 2013, 09:21:26 am »

I think that extreme positions are detrimental to town.  There are times for claiming, and times for not claiming.  I believe (as does everyone near as I can tell) that now is not a time for a mass-claim.  So, I'm not really sure why you bring it up every time?  Perhaps you mean something different by mass-claim than me.

I'm wondering if there might be good ways to share items which helps to create more power roles for town.  And that means that we should spread around items.  But spreading them around by say "sending an item to the next person in the sign-up list" (if such a thing is possible), would NOT presumably be a good way to do that. (gives scum excess info)

So, one possibility would be for everyone to suggest items they think might be useful based on the items in their inventory (whether received or granted by set-up).  I happen to think that would be a good way of helping us generate more power roles without giving scum excess information.  It doesn't strike me as a mass-claim, especially since you would have to determine what someone has based on what they're asking for.  Although it depends on how good players are at suggesting useful items for their current items.  And of course, it depends on how directed everyone's collaboration methods are.  Maybe this is a bad idea...and hey that's fine.  I'm not married to it, I came up with it while writing the previous post.  But are there any better ideas?  Or is everyone sold on blind collaboration and hoping?
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #209 on: June 25, 2013, 09:54:36 am »

So far, I like the suggestion idea the best. I'm sure scum could use it to take advantage of us, but I think tow. Will probably benefit more (assuming more town than scum, more town will get items, more town with power roles).  The only issue is how would we know what to ask for? We don't know what kinds of other items are out there, and I'm not sure how it will generate any discussion. Say I ask for an item, I can't say what I need to use it for or what items I think it will combine with. And any other person isn't going to say that they can give me that, so I'm not really sure how it helps us actually catch scum. Give us more PR's, possibly. Give us more info on scum? Not really. So while I think its the best D1 idea we have, I'm not sure how much it will actually help move D1 along. 

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #210 on: June 25, 2013, 09:57:14 am »

I think it may merit discussion to talk about how directing these sharings would be useful (or if not directing them would be better in people's opinions).  It seems to me like we want to spread the items around a decent amount, in order to maximize the number of power roles we have.  Ideally getting good combinations of items together, so that if I have an item that combines with a tube, I get a tube.
This.
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raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #211 on: June 25, 2013, 10:10:39 am »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #212 on: June 25, 2013, 10:13:15 am »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
Well do you think scum was going to give town that tube either way?

theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #213 on: June 25, 2013, 10:13:59 am »

So far, I like the suggestion idea the best. I'm sure scum could use it to take advantage of us, but I think tow. Will probably benefit more (assuming more town than scum, more town will get items, more town with power roles).  The only issue is how would we know what to ask for? We don't know what kinds of other items are out there, and I'm not sure how it will generate any discussion. Say I ask for an item, I can't say what I need to use it for or what items I think it will combine with. And any other person isn't going to say that they can give me that, so I'm not really sure how it helps us actually catch scum. Give us more PR's, possibly. Give us more info on scum? Not really. So while I think its the best D1 idea we have, I'm not sure how much it will actually help move D1 along.

This is true.  This is not scumhunting, it's theory-discussion.  Like i said, I (personally) find it more useful/interesting than RVS...but ultimately, we have to move OUT of theory-discussion and into scum-hunting.

Let's see we've had a bit of a no-lynch discussion.  We should also discuss random lynch, or is that discussion not in vogue anymore (I don't remember reading it in any recent games)?

Also, as has been suggested: Soft Deadline?  July 4th is going to get in the way.  July 3rd is actually maybe far enough out?  That gives us a week and a day.  That seems like plenty, and puts July 4th overnight, which would be nice.  So, I officially suggest July 3rd as our soft deadline.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #214 on: June 25, 2013, 10:17:55 am »

Hi guys, I'm playing too!

I oppose any sort of claiming for now. I don't think it's necessarily a doomed idea, but you/we should have a strong reason for doing so. A lot of the speculation around it may also cause scum to infer stuff, so that's a bit bad.

I have a meta-based townread on ashersky, he seems quite aggressive and inyourface - which is how I think he intentionally plays town to "show" everyone he is town.

Raerae I don't know about, I'm leaning town too just because she seems fine with being controversial. I'm quite null on everyone else, nothing too memorable has really happened yet. I'm very pleased to see theorel back for a game!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #215 on: June 25, 2013, 10:19:41 am »

July 3rd sounds like a fine soft deadline to me.

I firmly oppose random lynching, not only do I think it's not optimal, it's also very not fun. I'd rather play the game!

Nolynching might be viable given the RMM nature of the setup, but it could also be very very bad, so ultimately I just want business as usual. Lets make something happen, see how people react and try to find scum!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #216 on: June 25, 2013, 10:21:06 am »

Random lynch is even worse than nolynch imo
July 3 is ok with me
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #217 on: June 25, 2013, 10:22:10 am »

What would make no lynch very very bad?

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #218 on: June 25, 2013, 10:24:12 am »

What would make no lynch very very bad?
I don't know, parity stuff? We'd end up nolynching again at some point and would just have given scum extra nights to kill for nothing?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #219 on: June 25, 2013, 10:28:46 am »

Shraeye and I will be v/la with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8 unless we are very very lucky.  So, moral of that story is that if we don't lynch on 7/3 we won't be able to participate until about a week later. 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2013, 10:39:28 am »

re: theorel's idea, what if we reverse it.  I say an item I have that is not obviously a great role (I don't say penicillin or shiny badge!) and if you think your item would be a good match, you share it with me.

July 3rd is fine.

No lynch is a bad plan, but could be an ok outcome if we get to deadline and are nowhere.  But does that ever happen?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #221 on: June 25, 2013, 10:43:02 am »

Shraeye and I will be v/la with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8 unless we are very very lucky.  So, moral of that story is that if we don't lynch on 7/3 we won't be able to participate until about a week later.
Would you have time to do night actions before you go?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #222 on: June 25, 2013, 10:45:28 am »

Also re: no lynch, it does seem like sometimes we get to deadline and people vote to ensure there is a lynch when they aren't actually fully convinced.  That seems like a good time to ask oneself if no lynch might actually be ok.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2013, 11:00:39 am »

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #224 on: June 25, 2013, 11:09:47 am »

Shraeye and I will be v/la with no access from at least 7/4 - 7/8 unless we are very very lucky.  So, moral of that story is that if we don't lynch on 7/3 we won't be able to participate until about a week later.
Would you have time to do night actions before you go?

I assume we'd arrange that with Arch as needed.  I suppose I'll have access from my phone and the two of us can make that work to get that stuff done as needed.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #225 on: June 25, 2013, 11:10:56 am »

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...
That's why I suggested people say what they have and if you think you have something useful to give, you do, without saying anything.  This only works if the items mentioned are unobviously connected to specific power roles.
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #226 on: June 25, 2013, 11:11:51 am »

re: theorel's idea, what if we reverse it.  I say an item I have that is not obviously a great role (I don't say penicillin or shiny badge!) and if you think your item would be a good match, you share it with me.

July 3rd is fine.

No lynch is a bad plan, but could be an ok outcome if we get to deadline and are nowhere.  But does that ever happen?

I'm intrigued by this concept, given that you've tempered it with "only non-obviously-good items here".

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...

I think the concept here is that few people claim what they have to give, just perhaps stating one of the things in their inventory (not necessarily their starting item, since we've all had a wonderful trade round already :D) that they don't (yet) see a use for, and then see what people give that person and try to make cool stuff out of it.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #227 on: June 25, 2013, 11:13:40 am »

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...
That's why I suggested people say what they have and if you think you have something useful to give, you do, without saying anything.  This only works if the items mentioned are unobviously connected to specific power roles.
We could have several people do this so there is no single target.  Or just one person and hope we have a doctor to protect them.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #228 on: June 25, 2013, 11:17:44 am »

Arch - Is item guessing affected by roleblocks, being put in jail, drinking icky potions, commuting, etc?
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #229 on: June 25, 2013, 11:18:52 am »

I have always considered it this way:
A town-directed kill has some possibility of hitting scum.  A scum-directed kill has 0 possibility of hitting scum.  We want to maximize the number of town-directed kills in order to maximize the chance that we hit scum.  This means (IMO, which not everyone shares) that town should (generally) take every kill they can.  Determining when town should NOT take a kill that it has the opportunity to take is really where parity comes in.

In role madness, there are undoubtedly ways for town to disrupt parity.  Because town can disrupt parity, all parity arguments are essentially meaningless, and we should take every kill we can get, because that maximizes our win potential.  (again this is my OPINION.  There are potentially some unquantifiable gains from not lynching/not killing.  Galzria/Robz love the argument of "keeping town voices alive".  I believe that the quantifiable gains of extra town-directed deaths are greater than the unquantifiable gains of "town voices"...but since the latter is unquantifiable, it really may be bigger.  I acknowledge this, I just don't believe it.)

(For those unaware, here's the parity stuff.  Simplest case: 
-4 players, 1 scum (i.e. 3 town).  If town is lynched then there are 2 town v. 1 scum.  Scum kills one of the town players, and scum wins.  Each town player has a 1 in 3 chance to find the scum. 
-IF one of the town players is eliminated first then there are 2 town v. 1 scum.  Each town has a 50/50 chance of getting the scum.  if town is lynched, scum wins.  Thus, it benefits town to no-lynch and force scum to kill one of them off.

BUT this argument assumes that the town players can't stop the kill, or kill at night.  If one of those 2 unkilled town players is a doctor or vigilante, then the 3v1 situation has potential to be better for town.  A vigilante can shoot after the kill, this gives a 50/50 chance in ADDITION to the ~1/4 chance of the lynch.  If one is a jailkeeper, he can save the night kill and get the advantages of both days (if he himself isn't killed).  If one is a doctor/roleblocker same thing except guaranteed to find scum if they survive and choose correctly.

So, that's why I said that parity doesn't apply.)
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #230 on: June 25, 2013, 11:46:09 am »

Thanks for all the no lynch info. I would agree that now probably isn't the time. And thanks form coming in eevee. Unvote. Now, with claiming what we have to give: then the other person would have to say they wanted it. I feel like this could be harder for scum to lie, but then they would also know who is likely to have shiny new PR's and then they'd just get NK'd...
That's why I suggested people say what they have and if you think you have something useful to give, you do, without saying anything.  This only works if the items mentioned are unobviously connected to specific power roles.
That makes a lot more sense... sorry I read wrong

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #231 on: June 25, 2013, 12:17:15 pm »

I'm neutral on the no-lynch concept in this game, and here's why:

Normally it appears that lynching is (overall) the correct option.

Pros to no-lynch in this game happen to include the paper-pushing option to invent cool stuff that gives us additional roles - and a dead townie means we can't get his piece of a potentially cool item (I'm willing to accept the loss for dead scum).

Pros to lynching in this game, aside from the obvious "killing scum is good" option, are that we don't actually know what the scum wincons are, and it's entirely possible that inventing X, Y, or Z item are among them, so more items still around offers them more opportunity to snag those items (either via power roles [potentially] or via their town face).

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #232 on: June 25, 2013, 12:18:22 pm »

Arch - Is item guessing affected by roleblocks, being put in jail, drinking icky potions, commuting, etc?
I can't answer questions regarding powers that may or may not be in the game.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #233 on: June 25, 2013, 12:20:50 pm »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
Well do you think scum was going to give town that tube either way?

Not sure I understand the question.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #234 on: June 25, 2013, 12:24:26 pm »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
Well do you think scum was going to give town that tube either way?

Not sure I understand the question.

You suggested that if I request a tube, and scum has a tube, that scum won't give it to me.  He's asking whether you think scum would give me the tube if I don't say "I want a tube".
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #235 on: June 25, 2013, 12:27:03 pm »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
Well do you think scum was going to give town that tube either way?

Not sure I understand the question.
Knowing a townie wants a tube, or not wanting a tube, what reason would scum have for giving town any items? I would think schools would want to try to cherry pick as many items as they could from town and give none of them back. Scum doesn't want us getting powers, just as much as we don't want them to get them. The difference being, they know who is/isn't scum. So they can keep items from us.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #236 on: June 25, 2013, 12:36:15 pm »

The problem here is that we're giving out objects willy-nilly with no regard to alignment.  You say, 'I would like a tube, please,' and scum says, 'Well, I have this tube just chillin' here but I know town wants it so I think I'll just hang on to that and pretend it doesn't exist.'  Or we end up giving scum stuff to make stuff to kill us.
Well do you think scum was going to give town that tube either way?

Not sure I understand the question.
Knowing a townie wants a tube, or not wanting a tube, what reason would scum have for giving town any items? I would think schools would want to try to cherry pick as many items as they could from town and give none of them back. Scum doesn't want us getting powers, just as much as we don't want them to get them. The difference being, they know who is/isn't scum. So they can keep items from us.

Isn't that what I said?  Tube or no tube, scum isn't giving up items.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #237 on: June 25, 2013, 12:45:36 pm »

Your argument against saying what objects we would like was:
If someone says they want a tube, scum can then hold onto that tube and never give it away because now they know town wants it.  That's how I read the post I quoted, correct me if I'm wrong. So I'm just saying it doesn't matter if we say what we want, scum will hold the tube either way. Now, the more concerning issue is that scum will say they want something, and you'll give it to them not knowing they are scum. Or even worse, request the same item as a townie and then you have to choose...  all I was pointing out is the issue you brought up is a non-issue.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #238 on: June 25, 2013, 12:52:00 pm »

Your argument against saying what objects we would like was:
If someone says they want a tube, scum can then hold onto that tube and never give it away because now they know town wants it.  That's how I read the post I quoted, correct me if I'm wrong. So I'm just saying it doesn't matter if we say what we want, scum will hold the tube either way. Now, the more concerning issue is that scum will say they want something, and you'll give it to them not knowing they are scum. Or even worse, request the same item as a townie and then you have to choose...  all I was pointing out is the issue you brought up is a non-issue.

I brought up both those issues actually.  Scum won't give something up or we give scum something they want.  Read the quote again maybe?  Maybe it's because I wrote it, but I don't see why there is confusion with that quote.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #239 on: June 25, 2013, 12:59:16 pm »

Raerae, I have no strong scum or town reads at this point, unfortunately. I'm suspicious that Ashersky STILL hasn't said why he finds you scummy, but I'm thrown off by him right now, and I'm not sure whether it's more likely a scum or town move from him. I'm also still wanting to hear from Shraeye on why he non-RVS voted for me. Eevee's been quiet for him, so that's a little suspicious. There just hasn't been anything that's really stuck out at me so far, though.

July 3rd deadline is fine with me.

I agree with Eevee that we shouldn't random-lynch. It's less fun, as he says, and won't we just be left in the same stage D2, unless someone lucked into a successful investigation?

As for no-lynch...I think it makes a lot of sense in this game actually. One reason why is that it keeps all of the items in the game for longer. Now, we have two chances for every item to get into town hands, rather than only one chance. Whether or not this is actually worth it, I'm not sure, but it's definitely a point to consider.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #240 on: June 25, 2013, 12:59:37 pm »

Ah. The bulk of the quote was the first part, which I didn't see as a problem. The very past line covers the other stuff. I see that now, no confusion.  Still, I think it is something we need to address if we're planning any item discussion.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #241 on: June 25, 2013, 01:01:46 pm »

The more town who are alive, the higher chance town will end up with items. That's intriguing and a decent reason to no-lynch if we do not have a great candidate
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #242 on: June 25, 2013, 01:06:57 pm »

Your argument against saying what objects we would like was:
If someone says they want a tube, scum can then hold onto that tube and never give it away because now they know town wants it.  That's how I read the post I quoted, correct me if I'm wrong. So I'm just saying it doesn't matter if we say what we want, scum will hold the tube either way. Now, the more concerning issue is that scum will say they want something, and you'll give it to them not knowing they are scum. Or even worse, request the same item as a townie and then you have to choose...  all I was pointing out is the issue you brought up is a non-issue.

I agree that both of these are issues -- however, they were issues beforehand, and I don't think this method really makes it any worse.

Two problems I see with it, though:

1) We just don't know what items we can choose from! It will be so hard to nail down combinations, given that we don't know what's in the game. Yes, we can guess...but ultimately, I just don't know how helpful it would be, and it may take away from time better spent scumhunting. If I spent my entire time asking for an object that doesn't exist, I've wasted my time to no avail, and no one will be even able to tell me that I've wasted my time. This is mostly a D1 problem, however. If we get to the point where people have confirmed combinations, and are 1 items short, they should absolutely ask for an item.

I think this method has merit, but I'd rather see it applied to confirmed items, rather than to speculated items.

2) If it's obvious to the player guessing, it may be obvious to the scum, as well. Obviously, they have one less piece of information, but ultimately, they're working at a similar puzzle that a town member was working out, and that a town member was (supposedly) able to solve. If I ask for a candlestick maker, scum might know I have a butcher and a baker, it's pretty obvious. We should just make sure to tread cautiously, here.
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chairs

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #243 on: June 25, 2013, 01:12:43 pm »

I wonder if we have a doc and/or cop.  If we could reasonably expect a doc and could confirm a cop somehow, we'd at least have a good investigation setup rolling, though the concern would still exist that somebody could kill the doc or have some sort of "even through doctor" power, I guess.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #244 on: June 25, 2013, 01:16:56 pm »

I wonder if we have a doc and/or cop.  If we could reasonably expect a doc and could confirm a cop somehow, we'd at least have a good investigation setup rolling, though the concern would still exist that somebody could kill the doc or have some sort of "even through doctor" power, I guess.

I'm sure we would have item combinations to make these powers at the very least
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #245 on: June 25, 2013, 01:21:55 pm »

I think TA has hit it on the nose. I think today we should work on more scum hunting and less on the items. I like the items, I think it's cool, but I also think they could serve as a distraction from the big goal:kill scum. And I think scum could use that to their advantage

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #246 on: June 25, 2013, 01:24:59 pm »

One point on Theorel's summary I wanted to touch on --

He says that we should probably spread the items around a fair amount. I'm not sure I agree with this. Yes, I understand that the more people who have access to different items, but it may be better to concentrate your items to some degree -- obviously not giving the same person the same item every night. I'm going to keep in mind, though, that if I give my item to person X N0, chances are, on subsequent nights, there's a better chance they've figured out a correct combination for that item. So that's an incentive for me to give person X the item on a later night, rather than a random person who hasn't seen the item before. I think we should spread out items out to only 2-3 people we have town reads on, and hopefully they will be able to make the same useful items multiple times.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #247 on: June 25, 2013, 01:39:50 pm »

One point on Theorel's summary I wanted to touch on --

He says that we should probably spread the items around a fair amount. I'm not sure I agree with this. Yes, I understand that the more people who have access to different items, but it may be better to concentrate your items to some degree -- obviously not giving the same person the same item every night. I'm going to keep in mind, though, that if I give my item to person X N0, chances are, on subsequent nights, there's a better chance they've figured out a correct combination for that item. So that's an incentive for me to give person X the item on a later night, rather than a random person who hasn't seen the item before. I think we should spread out items out to only 2-3 people we have town reads on, and hopefully they will be able to make the same useful items multiple times.

Hmm...hadn't really considered that.  I was actually talking about something different though.  I meant that as a town we want to be spreading items out.  It doesn't do us as much good if ashersky gets 9 items as if 6 people get 1-2 items each.  The idea being that each player has a limited capacity to form combinations so it helps to spread out the items that can form combinations.

As for what each single player does with their items, that brings up a question of how many times it benefits a player to make a given item.  It has been stated that the results are not always 1-shot at least.  Hmm, that merits a mod-question I think:
Can a player use multiple item-generated roles at one time? (including generating the same role more than once and using it multiple times in one night)? (Also can he use an item-generated role and his given role at the same time)?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #248 on: June 25, 2013, 01:42:28 pm »

A player can use as many of his 'invented' roles as he wants per night in addition to any of his normal power roles.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #249 on: June 25, 2013, 01:45:13 pm »

Oh, I misread your point then. Yes, that's true. We definitely shouldn't give Ashersky 9 items!
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #250 on: June 25, 2013, 02:11:39 pm »

Vote Count 1.3

xeiron (1) raerae
ashersky (1) spiritbears
raerae (2) ashersky, xeiron
Twistedarcher (1) shraeye
shraeye (1) chairs
Eevee (1) mail-mi

Not Voting: (6) Eevee,nTwistedarcher, AHoppy, EFHW, theorel, nkirbit.


Day one ends on Monday, July 15th.

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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #251 on: June 25, 2013, 02:30:49 pm »

Your argument against saying what objects we would like was:
If someone says they want a tube, scum can then hold onto that tube and never give it away because now they know town wants it.  That's how I read the post I quoted, correct me if I'm wrong. So I'm just saying it doesn't matter if we say what we want, scum will hold the tube either way. Now, the more concerning issue is that scum will say they want something, and you'll give it to them not knowing they are scum. Or even worse, request the same item as a townie and then you have to choose...  all I was pointing out is the issue you brought up is a non-issue.

I agree that both of these are issues -- however, they were issues beforehand, and I don't think this method really makes it any worse.

Two problems I see with it, though:

1) We just don't know what items we can choose from! It will be so hard to nail down combinations, given that we don't know what's in the game. Yes, we can guess...but ultimately, I just don't know how helpful it would be, and it may take away from time better spent scumhunting. If I spent my entire time asking for an object that doesn't exist, I've wasted my time to no avail, and no one will be even able to tell me that I've wasted my time. This is mostly a D1 problem, however. If we get to the point where people have confirmed combinations, and are 1 items short, they should absolutely ask for an item.

I think this method has merit, but I'd rather see it applied to confirmed items, rather than to speculated items.

2) If it's obvious to the player guessing, it may be obvious to the scum, as well. Obviously, they have one less piece of information, but ultimately, they're working at a similar puzzle that a town member was working out, and that a town member was (supposedly) able to solve. If I ask for a candlestick maker, scum might know I have a butcher and a baker, it's pretty obvious. We should just make sure to tread cautiously, here.
These problems are less relevant if we have people state what they have and others decide to send or not.  Don't send to people you find scummy.  Do send to your townreads.  This way you don't need to guess - the creative thinking is done by the sender.  Scum willingness to send isn't relevant.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #252 on: June 25, 2013, 02:33:51 pm »

So basically, we'd be inventory-claiming.

Okay. Hmmm, that seems better. The only possible downside I see is that it effectively provides a list of all of the items in the game, but is that such a bad thing that's abusable by scum? Unless scum have an ability to steal items, then it could backfire.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #253 on: June 25, 2013, 02:35:18 pm »

Your argument against saying what objects we would like was:
If someone says they want a tube, scum can then hold onto that tube and never give it away because now they know town wants it.  That's how I read the post I quoted, correct me if I'm wrong. So I'm just saying it doesn't matter if we say what we want, scum will hold the tube either way. Now, the more concerning issue is that scum will say they want something, and you'll give it to them not knowing they are scum. Or even worse, request the same item as a townie and then you have to choose...  all I was pointing out is the issue you brought up is a non-issue.

I agree that both of these are issues -- however, they were issues beforehand, and I don't think this method really makes it any worse.

Two problems I see with it, though:

1) We just don't know what items we can choose from! It will be so hard to nail down combinations, given that we don't know what's in the game. Yes, we can guess...but ultimately, I just don't know how helpful it would be, and it may take away from time better spent scumhunting. If I spent my entire time asking for an object that doesn't exist, I've wasted my time to no avail, and no one will be even able to tell me that I've wasted my time. This is mostly a D1 problem, however. If we get to the point where people have confirmed combinations, and are 1 items short, they should absolutely ask for an item.

I think this method has merit, but I'd rather see it applied to confirmed items, rather than to speculated items.

2) If it's obvious to the player guessing, it may be obvious to the scum, as well. Obviously, they have one less piece of information, but ultimately, they're working at a similar puzzle that a town member was working out, and that a town member was (supposedly) able to solve. If I ask for a candlestick maker, scum might know I have a butcher and a baker, it's pretty obvious. We should just make sure to tread cautiously, here.
These problems are less relevant if we have people state what they have and others decide to send or not.  Don't send to people you find scummy.  Do send to your townreads.  This way you don't need to guess - the creative thinking is done by the sender.  Scum willingness to send isn't relevant.
Agree with this 100%
Not the first time I find myself agreeing
With her this game
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #254 on: June 25, 2013, 02:40:08 pm »

So basically, we'd be inventory-claiming.

Okay. Hmmm, that seems better. The only possible downside I see is that it effectively provides a list of all of the items in the game, but is that such a bad thing that's abusable by scum? Unless scum have an ability to steal items, then it could backfire.
I don't think we should inventory claim.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #255 on: June 25, 2013, 02:41:41 pm »

So basically, we'd be inventory-claiming.

Okay. Hmmm, that seems better. The only possible downside I see is that it effectively provides a list of all of the items in the game, but is that such a bad thing that's abusable by scum? Unless scum have an ability to steal items, then it could backfire.
I don't think we should inventory claim.

But you do think we should request items if we know what we're looking for?
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #256 on: June 25, 2013, 02:44:34 pm »

I think that would probably actually be better. Inventory claiming would reveal a lot to scum. Especially if no combining was successful last night.

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #257 on: June 25, 2013, 02:59:31 pm »

So basically, we'd be inventory-claiming.

Okay. Hmmm, that seems better. The only possible downside I see is that it effectively provides a list of all of the items in the game, but is that such a bad thing that's abusable by scum? Unless scum have an ability to steal items, then it could backfire.
I don't think we should inventory claim.

But you do think we should request items if we know what we're looking for?
This sounds like the best option I've heard yet, if we want to go with any sort of claiming.  Though I'm not sure how to decide what item 'matches' the things one might already have.  The worst that could happen here is people could ask for an object that doesn't exist.  That won't clutter up the thread, unless some jerk asks for like 20 different items.  Don't be that jerk. 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #258 on: June 25, 2013, 03:20:38 pm »

Here are the reasons that made me vote Twisted before:

Posts #92/#93
given that we actually had a N0, we should be able to skip RVS -- RVS is silly, anyways

And I'm 100% against claiming ANY combinations at this point.
Two things here jumped out at me, and those are the two things I left in the quote. First, Twisted says that we should be able to skip RVS because we've had a night.  But unless people come out and immediately claim some night-result, we really don't get to skip the standard start-up.  Even if somebody found scum N0, they have to wait for the thread to fill up with posts and such, so they can build a case on their target.  Otherwise, it will be immediately obvious that the person is a PR, and it would be akin to role claiming.  And that's something you said you were against. (Not just claiming combinations, but in post #95, you say you completely agree with raerae's idea of not claiming anything).

The second thing that jumped out at me was that you stated a very staunch opinion on claiming combinations, and then IMMEDIATELY toned it down in post #93.  This put you on my suspicion radar, and I kept a closer watch on your next few posts.
More important point:
Guys, this is clearly a town-on-town argument. Just because mail-mi's really,really,really, extremely wrong doesn't make him scummy!
This was in response to mail-mi and raerae's joke about claiming that ham is good.  This is fun and silly, and a perfectly good way to start a game, but I don't like spending tons of time just joking around and cluttering up the thread.  Twisted's response to this quick exchange really stands out because, REMEMBER, he said that he hates silly RVS.  That makes this post nothing more than a distraction, and it clutters up our thread.  People can recall in the MeanGirls Mod QT, that I was consistently pointing out that long cluttered threads really only help scum, because nobody ever wants to do a reread.

Last item:
Btw, I do understand that position Raerae. I guess we disagree on how potentially useful it can be, but that's a minor enough point.
I don't get this, Twisted says that he understands raerae's position on theory talk (which is post #98 by her), but disagrees with how useful it is.  "The uselessness of theory talk" IS raerae's position.  You can't simultaneously agree with her but disagree with her main point.  This post is just pure appeasement.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #259 on: June 25, 2013, 03:34:38 pm »

Yes, RVS is silly silly silly. I say that every game. I'd much rather talk theory or do anything than spent 24-48 hours doing nothing. And I'm still 100% against claiming combinations, unless someone has a very, very, very good reason to do so.

Yeah, I think RVS is silly and then made an RVS post. So what? If you're building a case on that, I can't really defend it. I do thing it's odd that this is your more important point, though, rather than the first point you made. Building a case out of RVS is just silly, once again. If you're going to build a case on someone for RVS, I have no idea why you're starting with me -- I'm sure there's a half-dozen people who had more RVS posts in this thread than I did.

I understood where Raerae was coming from, and disagreed that it can sometimes be useful. But I saw where her argument was coming from. I disagree on her main point but understand where she's coming from. Call it pure appeasement, if you want, but I think you're building a case out of nothing here.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #260 on: June 25, 2013, 03:35:00 pm »

So basically, we'd be inventory-claiming.
Okay. Hmmm, that seems better. The only possible downside I see is that it effectively provides a list of all of the items in the game, but is that such a bad thing that's abusable by scum? Unless scum have an ability to steal items, then it could backfire.
I don't think we should inventory claim.

Asking for items makes it more likely the scum will figure out what power you are trying to get.  Also, there is a whole universe of items in the world.  What are the chances of any of the ones we think of being in the game?

I don't think we should fully inventory claim.  That would be useful if we could do it anonymously, but I assume some of the items will have obvious uses and should not be identified with any one player. 

But I bet there are items without obvious uses that a creative approach could match up with other existing items.  Person X has some paper cups they can share.  They could send them out randomly or send them to Person Y who says they have string.  Presto chango, a communication device!  THOSE WERE EXAMPLES AND DO NOT REFLECT KNOWLEDGE OF ACTUAL ITEMS IN THE GAME.  The more people we have mentioning innocuous items, the less scum can use the info to choose a target - this is part of what I meant when I said we could use WIFOM.  It depends how many people have seemingly innocuous items to mention. 

I also don't see a benefit of waiting.  Each time a townie dies we lose access to the items they share. 
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #261 on: June 25, 2013, 03:40:55 pm »

Other random things:

Eevee's been quiet for him, so that's a little suspicious. There just hasn't been anything that's really stuck out at me so far, though.
Yes, Eevee had only posted 3 times in the first 24 hours of the game.  THAT's definitely a reasonable reason to find him suspicious.  Sometime, you gotta realize that people get busy.  That's just life.

There's also set-up speculation.  Which I think bit us in DS9 mafia, because we assumed there were 4 scum when there were 6 (it's possible extra speculation in the beginning would have saved us, but I don't know that we ever would have expected 6).  I'll just note we should be careful about the set-up, and any assumptions we may come to regarding it.  With 13 players, that's the size of CK9++ which means that 2-3 scum is a reasonable team-size with up to 1 Serial Killer (in addition).  This is NOT multi-ball so I think something in that vicinity is reasonable here as well, and hence it's what I'll be expecting.
Theorel, what makes you so certain that this isn't multi-ball?

I have a meta-based townread on ashersky, he seems quite aggressive and inyourface - which is how I think he intentionally plays town to "show" everyone he is town.
I agree with this; also, I like the way ash has stirred up conversation around his raerae vote (the reason I copied his style there).
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #262 on: June 25, 2013, 03:43:31 pm »

It says no multiball in the OP
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #263 on: June 25, 2013, 03:44:42 pm »

Yeah, I think RVS is silly and then made an RVS post. So what? If you're building a case on that, I can't really defend it. I do thing it's odd that this is your more important point, though, rather than the first point you made. Building a case out of RVS is just silly, once again. If you're going to build a case on someone for RVS, I have no idea why you're starting with me -- I'm sure there's a half-dozen people who had more RVS posts in this thread than I did.

I understood where Raerae was coming from, and disagreed that it can sometimes be useful. But I saw where her argument was coming from. I disagree on her main point but understand where she's coming from. Call it pure appeasement, if you want, but I think you're building a case out of nothing here.
Yes, it's true that there's probably half-dozen people who have more RVS posts than you, ,but they aren't on the record as hating RVS.  I made the points in the order I did, because I was discussing issues in the order they came up in  (i.e., #92/93 is before your joke-post, which was before your appeasement-post).

Appeasement is exactly what I call it, and that sort of please-everyone attitude is something scum takes more often than town I find...see ashersky's abrasiveness for the flipside.  Scum players are too afraid to be that in your face.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #264 on: June 25, 2013, 03:48:48 pm »

Another point - we are trying to make pro-town devices.  If a scum gets a cop power, it doesn't really help them.  We don't have NK's, what would they do with a doctor?  It's worth trying b/c the chances are greater that a townie will get the powers.  If I think my V-shaped twig shared with someone with rubber band would make a slingshot, I won't send it.  My plan helps us avoid dangerous combinations to some degree.  To abuse this, scum would have to think of innocuous items that would get them other items that they have other plans for.

The possibility of stealing:  This is true.  If scum can steal and they have the twig and hear about a rubber band, they might try to steal it.  But if we are making say 4 powers and they make 1, it is probably still worth it for town to proceed.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #265 on: June 25, 2013, 03:54:02 pm »

So basically, we'd be inventory-claiming.

Okay. Hmmm, that seems better. The only possible downside I see is that it effectively provides a list of all of the items in the game, but is that such a bad thing that's abusable by scum? Unless scum have an ability to steal items, then it could backfire.
I don't think we should inventory claim.

But you do think we should request items if we know what we're looking for?
This sounds like the best option I've heard yet, if we want to go with any sort of claiming.  Though I'm not sure how to decide what item 'matches' the things one might already have.  The worst that could happen here is people could ask for an object that doesn't exist.  That won't clutter up the thread, unless some jerk asks for like 20 different items.  Don't be that jerk.

I think this is NOT a good option, because it gives information on what you are trying to make.  Saying what you WANT gives a lot more information than saying what you HAVE, so long as you are careful about what you say you have.  I find encouraging this option somewhat scummy, actually.

Also, while my first impression of TA was that he might be scum, I think your case against him is really weak.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #266 on: June 25, 2013, 03:55:40 pm »

Yeah, I think RVS is silly and then made an RVS post. So what? If you're building a case on that, I can't really defend it. I do thing it's odd that this is your more important point, though, rather than the first point you made. Building a case out of RVS is just silly, once again. If you're going to build a case on someone for RVS, I have no idea why you're starting with me -- I'm sure there's a half-dozen people who had more RVS posts in this thread than I did.

I understood where Raerae was coming from, and disagreed that it can sometimes be useful. But I saw where her argument was coming from. I disagree on her main point but understand where she's coming from. Call it pure appeasement, if you want, but I think you're building a case out of nothing here.
Yes, it's true that there's probably half-dozen people who have more RVS posts than you, ,but they aren't on the record as hating RVS.  I made the points in the order I did, because I was discussing issues in the order they came up in  (i.e., #92/93 is before your joke-post, which was before your appeasement-post).

Appeasement is exactly what I call it, and that sort of please-everyone attitude is something scum takes more often than town I find...see ashersky's abrasiveness for the flipside.  Scum players are too afraid to be that in your face.

Okay, I completely disagree with this. I dislike RVS, but going along with it and making a joke once, one that didn't even vote for a player, happens. What exactly are you accusing me of doing with my RVS post? Looking at the thread, seeing an opportunity, saying "Yes! I can add one more post in! Bwahahaha, they're not going to be able to re-read the thread now!" I just don't get how making a RVS post about ham being a terrible lunchmeat gives you a scum read, or a town read, or any read whatsoever.

You can call it appeasement, I disagree, but whatever. It's not like I can sit here and convince you what was going through my head. I just think you've got nothing here, and it's more likely that you always will just read me scummy.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #267 on: June 25, 2013, 03:56:22 pm »



Also, while my first impression of TA was that he might be scum, I think your case against him is really weak.

Why did you first think he was scum?
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Re: RMMVIII Innovation Inc.
« Reply #268 on: June 25, 2013, 03:58:53 pm »

EFHW - As for pro-town powers -- I think everything that has no scum utility will be changed to a pro-scum item, if necessary. Not sure if Doc would be one of the ones switched, though.

Setup Specific Information

Regardless of the number of objects in the combination, the different combinations make will make thematic sense and shouldn’t be too difficult to guess.  I will say that the combinations themselves are also all set in stone and will be revealed at game’s end. The most a combination will vary will be whether it's scum or town so that each side can make use of the object, but it will still make thematic sense and only a few objects are split depending on alignment. Guesses you don't use will be rolled over to the following night.


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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #269 on: June 25, 2013, 04:01:36 pm »

EFHW, I kind of get what you're saying, but I think I'm unclear on what exactly it is you're proposing. You're not proposing full-fledged inventory claiming, correct? To use your example, you're saying that if someone has a y-shaped stick, and they think, "Hey, I might want a rubber band to make a slingshot!" then they should post "If someone has a Rubber band, could they please send it to me tonight?"

Is this correct on what you're advocating?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #270 on: June 25, 2013, 04:04:21 pm »

@raerae: A different part of the same quote Shraeye used.

Hi everyone!
Hi! I love how friendly we're being given someone has just been shot...
Shows knowledge and forethought of a "shooting"
vote ahop
Shows that someone hasn't read the flavor ;)
More seriously, though, given that we actually had a N0, we should be able to skip RVS -- RVS is silly, anyways.
Obviously, it doesn't lead us any closer to actually finding out who the scum are, but I think theory discussion would be useful this game, provided that we're very, very careful about not giving anything away without thinking it through first.
One of the warnings in the OP discussed that claiming could potentially be terrible for town, and give scum large advantages. I think anyone who wants to come into D1 claiming anything should be very wary about it, and make sure it's what they want to do. And I'm 100% against claiming ANY combinations at this point.

I certainly wouldn't vote based on this.  But to me it read like someone trying to appear townie while trying to get people to talk and maybe not be so careful.  He makes sure to mention how much he wants to catch scum and there are too many "very"s.  "100%" also seems like someone trying to be townie.  He doesn't explain his reasoning for either having a theory discussion or not having a combination discussion, so it seems like a town performance.  BUT this is one post and it is easy to read into things, so alone it doesn't mean much.
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theorel

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #271 on: June 25, 2013, 04:06:08 pm »

So, then the question is, do we have innocuous items we can claim?  Or would we be better of asking for vague items?

I mean the point is that you could ask for like a "container" or a "power source" or a "connecting thing".
None of those would give anything away, and some people might need something similar.  Or we could claim things like "ball of string", "glass jar", or "pen".  Which have no obvious uses, but someone might say "aha, that needs this item I have".

Not everyone needs to say either one, maybe we could use both to some degree?  I dunno, maybe neither works.

People could even just give a vague idea of what they have, without being precise.  I think we could probably share sufficiently obfuscated information to improve our chances of gaining PRs either way.

Given my items, I would feel like asking for things gives less away than saying what I have.  And maybe ultimately, that's where the difference comes in...I feel like i could ask for some vague categories of useful stuff, while you have innocuous items that would fit those categories, with no clear uses.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #272 on: June 25, 2013, 04:08:20 pm »

EFHW, I kind of get what you're saying, but I think I'm unclear on what exactly it is you're proposing. You're not proposing full-fledged inventory claiming, correct? To use your example, you're saying that if someone has a y-shaped stick, and they think, "Hey, I might want a rubber band to make a slingshot!" then they should post "If someone has a Rubber band, could they please send it to me tonight?"

Is this correct on what you're advocating?
NO!  I'm saying the opposite.  If I had a V-shaped twig, I wouldn't mention it - it's obvious it could be made into a slingshot.  But if I had "a piece of elastic", I might mention it.  Then if someone wants to anonymously send me the twig, they can, though really they shouldn't unless we are both scum.

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EFHW

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #273 on: June 25, 2013, 04:09:56 pm »

Not everyone needs to say either one, maybe we could use both to some degree?  I dunno, maybe neither works.

People could even just give a vague idea of what they have, without being precise.  I think we could probably share sufficiently obfuscated information to improve our chances of gaining PRs either way.

Given my items, I would feel like asking for things gives less away than saying what I have.  And maybe ultimately, that's where the difference comes in...I feel like i could ask for some vague categories of useful stuff, while you have innocuous items that would fit those categories, with no clear uses.

This makes sense and I would be open to it.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #274 on: June 25, 2013, 04:11:53 pm »

EFHW, I kind of get what you're saying, but I think I'm unclear on what exactly it is you're proposing. You're not proposing full-fledged inventory claiming, correct? To use your example, you're saying that if someone has a y-shaped stick, and they think, "Hey, I might want a rubber band to make a slingshot!" then they should post "If someone has a Rubber band, could they please send it to me tonight?"

Is this correct on what you're advocating?
NO!  I'm saying the opposite.  If I had a V-shaped twig, I wouldn't mention it - it's obvious it could be made into a slingshot.  But if I had "a piece of elastic", I might mention it.  Then if someone wants to anonymously send me the twig, they can, though really they shouldn't unless we are both scum.

Ah, okay.

I disagree that the person shouldn't send you the item though if they're town. Odds are, you're town too, and unless they have a strong scum read, I'd advocate sending it. Getting combinations will probably be necessary to win -- I think it's worth the risk of giving an item to scum for the much better chance of giving an item to town.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #275 on: June 25, 2013, 04:14:23 pm »

@raerae: A different part of the same quote Shraeye used.

Hi everyone!
Hi! I love how friendly we're being given someone has just been shot...
Shows knowledge and forethought of a "shooting"
vote ahop
Shows that someone hasn't read the flavor ;)
More seriously, though, given that we actually had a N0, we should be able to skip RVS -- RVS is silly, anyways.
Obviously, it doesn't lead us any closer to actually finding out who the scum are, but I think theory discussion would be useful this game, provided that we're very, very careful about not giving anything away without thinking it through first.
One of the warnings in the OP discussed that claiming could potentially be terrible for town, and give scum large advantages. I think anyone who wants to come into D1 claiming anything should be very wary about it, and make sure it's what they want to do. And I'm 100% against claiming ANY combinations at this point.

I certainly wouldn't vote based on this.  But to me it read like someone trying to appear townie while trying to get people to talk and maybe not be so careful.  He makes sure to mention how much he wants to catch scum and there are too many "very"s.  "100%" also seems like someone trying to be townie.  He doesn't explain his reasoning for either having a theory discussion or not having a combination discussion, so it seems like a town performance.  BUT this is one post and it is easy to read into things, so alone it doesn't mean much.

I think the warning in the OP is more than enough to be 100% against claiming combinations. And I don't want people to be very careful - I want people to be very, very careful.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #276 on: June 25, 2013, 04:14:57 pm »

Yeah, I'm not talking about a mass-claim using either method. I'm just wondering what sort of system we could use to move things around that gives scum the least benefit and town the most benefit.  I'm not sure what the best solution is, or if there even is one.

Is that what you're looking for as well theorel, or am I just misinterpreting all over the place?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #277 on: June 25, 2013, 04:22:31 pm »

I don't exactly understand Theorel's idea, and I have no idea idea what I'd claim if we went through with it. I understand having someone walk me through what we'd do goes against the point of it, but I don't think it would be very useful to me personally, since I can't really wrap my head around it.
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #278 on: June 25, 2013, 04:25:01 pm »

I like the idea of using broad descriptions.  Giving away the specific item could be very very dangerous.  But how do we want to go about doing this?  are we going to just kind of mention it if we feel like it, or should we actually do a mass(ish) claim?  I don't think we should mass claim, but I do think we should say what we have if we think it will be useful (quite vague and broadly).

However, I should remind people that we do need to get to scum hunting. 

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #279 on: June 25, 2013, 04:26:24 pm »

I like the idea of using broad descriptions.  Giving away the specific item could be very very dangerous.  But how do we want to go about doing this?  are we going to just kind of mention it if we feel like it, or should we actually do a mass(ish) claim?  I don't think we should mass claim, but I do think we should say what we have if we think it will be useful (quite vague and broadly).

However, I should remind people that we do need to get to scum hunting.

Why don't you go ahead and start us off then?  If you don't agree with any of the positions taken by Ash, shraeye, or me.
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #280 on: June 25, 2013, 04:26:56 pm »

Wouldn't it be very easy for scum to manipulate a claiming system where it's not set in stone what we're doing, and instead are freely putting information forward?
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #281 on: June 25, 2013, 04:37:56 pm »

I have a feeling scum are just smiling as we spend 6 pages discussing whether or not to claim items....
Get backbtobscum hunting....why does ash target Rae?  And why is he so sure??  To m it looks like busing....
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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #282 on: June 25, 2013, 04:41:36 pm »

I have a feeling scum are just smiling as we spend 6 pages discussing whether or not to claim items....
Get backbtobscum hunting....why does ash target Rae?  And why is he so sure??  To m it looks like busing....

For it to be busing you have to think we're both scum.  Why don't you go ahead and tell the class why that is.
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spiritbears

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #283 on: June 25, 2013, 04:46:11 pm »

I have a feeling scum are just smiling as we spend 6 pages discussing whether or not to claim items....
Get backbtobscum hunting....why does ash target Rae?  And why is he so sure??  To m it looks like busing....

For it to be busing you have to think we're both scum.  Why don't you go ahead and tell the class why that is.
Sorry wrong term.   It looks like scum trying to push a bad wagon...
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AHoppy

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #284 on: June 25, 2013, 05:04:42 pm »

Well, to start, I think we need to get the lurkers to come out:
chairs
mail-mi
haven't heard much from you in a while
and we could also probably hear some more from eevee.

Also, Why haven't we heard anything back from ashersky in a while?  I know there is a time difference, but what do you think about things since your last post?  What do you think of the no-lynch talks? What do you think about TA and raerae's fight?

raerae

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #285 on: June 25, 2013, 05:10:42 pm »

Well, to start, I think we need to get the lurkers to come out:
chairs
mail-mi
haven't heard much from you in a while
and we could also probably hear some more from eevee.

Also, Why haven't we heard anything back from ashersky in a while?  I know there is a time difference, but what do you think about things since your last post?  What do you think of the no-lynch talks? What do you think about TA and raerae's fight?

TA & raerae fought?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #286 on: June 25, 2013, 05:14:37 pm »

Well, to start, I think we need to get the lurkers to come out:
chairs
mail-mi
haven't heard much from you in a while
and we could also probably hear some more from eevee.

Also, Why haven't we heard anything back from ashersky in a while?  I know there is a time difference, but what do you think about things since your last post?  What do you think of the no-lynch talks? What do you think about TA and raerae's fight?

I'm here now.  The time difference is severe.  I'm 16 hours ahead of forum time, so it's already tomorrow here.  I've skimmed up to now, so now I'll go back and respond to specific posts that need it.

Also, big raerae reveal to come.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #287 on: June 25, 2013, 05:16:40 pm »

I really don't agree with the no lynch idea.  But I don't fins you totally scummy for bringing it up.  It's just not helpful I think
Ash--very scummy tunneling Rae Rae...and yes, trying to paint her legitimate position as overly scummy is just scummy imo. My ash vote turned out to be s good one...sticking with this one

Some talk of no lynch since I left -- none of it very scummy, although no lynch favors scum early in the game.

I actually believe that no lynch is absolutely the wrong move on THIS PARTICULAR D1, given we had a night start.  I think one of the few compelling arguments for a D1 no lynch is that 1) this is RMM and 2) we all can do stuff at night that is cool and maybe will throw off scum.  Except we all already had that opportunity.  So skipping D1 and essentially going with a 2-night start sounds bad to me.

On raerae, as mentioned, I'll get to that.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

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Re: RMM8 Innovation Inc. (Day 1 Start!)
« Reply #288 on: June 25, 2013, 05:17:07 pm »

Chairs:  Just as a heads up, you really shouldn't be talking about other games that are still going on.  There are players who are in both games, and those who aren't probably reading both anyway.  Talking about completed games is fine, though.

+1

This is a key point for new folks to remember.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51