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[Kuildeous]

Part of the fun with Saboteur is enduring the hardship if someone decides to go that route. Okay, sometimes it's not fun, but it depends on your outlook. I'm the type of person who enjoys games like Galaxy Trucker or Dungeon Lords, where the game is really out to get you and crush your little empire that you built. If I can apply that mindset to a Saboteur game, then it becomes a race. I am racing to win the game before the other player(s) can ruin my deck. I try to gain extra fodder to feed to the Saboteur so that my Gold is safe. Most of the time, other players won't buy it. Generally, I don't either, but sometimes it can be part of a valid strategy.

It is difficult to see the silver lining of Saboteur, though. I admit that.

[Kirian]

Saboteur, like explorer, fits the phrase "Not every card can be the best $5 card."

[Davio]

Well at least if someone goes Saboteur, you can go Saboteur yourself.
And if someone Saboteurs your Saboteur, you can always make an Xzibit meme out of it.

[Stealth Tomato]

Saboteur, like explorer, fits the phrase "Not every card can be the best $5 card."

Yes, but that's true because Explorer is a consistent workhorse. It has a specific job and it does it reasonably well.

Saboteur is none of those things.

[Awaclus]

Saboteur, like explorer, fits the phrase "Not every card can be the best $5 card."

Yes, but that's true because Explorer is a consistent workhorse. It has a specific job and it does it reasonably well.

Saboteur is none of those things.

But Saboteur has the specific job of being an attack, and while it doesn't do it very well, it does it better than nothing.

[pinkymadigan]

Man, I wish I would've seen this earlier.

Base: Village, Smithy, Council Room, Festival, Throne Room
Intrigue: Mining Village, Shanty Town, Courtyard, Bridge, Nobles
Prosperity: Worker's Village, City, Vault, King's Court, Rabble

Those are cards I refuse to play with. I don't even take them along to game night any more. In fact, I've used most of them for firewood.

Usually we just play a Kingdom with Copper, Silver, Gold, Estates, Duchies, and Provinces so one strategy doesn't dominate too much and people have lots of options.

[Jimmmmm]

Man, I wish I would've seen this earlier.

Base: Village, Smithy, Council Room, Festival, Throne Room
Intrigue: Mining Village, Shanty Town, Courtyard, Bridge, Nobles
Prosperity: Worker's Village, City, Vault, King's Court, Rabble

Those are cards I refuse to play with. I don't even take them along to game night any more. In fact, I've used most of them for firewood.

Usually we just play a Kingdom with Copper, Silver, Gold, Estates, Duchies, and Provinces so one strategy doesn't dominate too much and people have lots of options.

You had me worried for a sec.

[Schneau]

Man, I wish I would've seen this earlier.

Base: Village, Smithy, Council Room, Festival, Throne Room
Intrigue: Mining Village, Shanty Town, Courtyard, Bridge, Nobles
Prosperity: Worker's Village, City, Vault, King's Court, Rabble

Those are cards I refuse to play with. I don't even take them along to game night any more. In fact, I've used most of them for firewood.

Usually we just play a Kingdom with Copper, Silver, Gold, Estates, Duchies, and Provinces so one strategy doesn't dominate too much and people have lots of options.

Good job making sure there aren't any Villages available - you wouldn't want someone to be able to play 2 terminal actions in the same turn!

[pinkymadigan]

Good job making sure there aren't any Villages available - you wouldn't want someone to be able to play 2 terminal actions in the same turn!

Well, at first I tried a few games with them, but man, new people couldn't see the strategy and it was so overpowered. Do you think I should burn my +1 action cards too? It is pretty boring to watch those Spy chains. They totally demolish me. I'm not sure there is a way to overcome them.

[Kuildeous]

Keep in mind that the OP is communicating using a translator algorithm and probably won't recognize the sarcasm.

[pinkymadigan]

Keep in mind that the OP is communicating using a translator algorithm and probably won't recognize the sarcasm.

Yes, I get that. The sarcasm is for my morning enjoyment. It goes well with coffee.

I think the board as a whole has well documented that I'm kind of a jerk.

EDIT: for fun, I translated this post to Italian. "Sarcasmo" sounds like a new super hero.

[KingZog3]

Keep in mind that the OP is communicating using a translator algorithm and probably won't recognize the sarcasm.

Yes, I get that. The sarcasm is for my morning enjoyment. It goes well with coffee.

I think the board as a whole has well documented that I'm kind of a jerk.

EDIT: for fun, I translated this post to Italian. "Sarcasmo" sounds like a new super hero.

Ironic Man and is sidekcik Sarcasmo!

[Davio]

SarCosmo?

[bodybuilder]

ok at the end saboteur is out, I tried online and I do not like if he is in play. very low scores and match that ends early.

Now,  without opening another topic, I ask you: would buy seaside but also want to be sure that there are no cards unbalanced. I do not mean not good, but I mean cards like saboteur, that hurt their work, bringing boredom and frustration in games.

other question: what do you think of alchemy and cornucopia? seem to me the less beautiful for what they offer

[sudgy]

All cards are balanced.  The playtesters made sure of that.

Alchemy is actually one of my more favorite expansions.  Most people don't like it, however.

[ftl]

Seaside has Sea Hag, that slows games down. It's a really early curser. Some people really dislike Ambassador.

Honestly, I think Seaside is unbalanced in the other direction, it has so many power cards that speed the game up (Wharf, Fishing Village)...

Cornucopia is a lot of fun.

[KingZog3]

The only expansion with cards I don't like is Prosperity. The rest are all good. Seaside is fun and the Duration cards add a lot. True it's got many super strong cards, but I don't think that's a point against it.

Alchemy is ok. Some of the cards are really interesting, like Vineyards, Apothecary and Scrying Pool, which add so much and are really really fun. But it also has a lot of not fun cards like Familiar, Transmute, Possession and P Stone (P Stone can be ok, but almost always these cards are never bought or add very little to strategy and interest. Waste of space in my kingdom if you ask me).

[eHalcyon]

The only expansion with cards I don't like is Prosperity. The rest are all good. Seaside is fun and the Duration cards add a lot. True it's got many super strong cards, but I don't think that's a point against it.

Alchemy is ok. Some of the cards are really interesting, like Vineyards, Apothecary and Scrying Pool, which add so much and are really really fun. But it also has a lot of not fun cards like Familiar, Transmute, Possession and P Stone (P Stone can be ok, but almost always these cards are never bought and add very little to strategy and interest. Waste of space in my kingdom if you ask me).

Familiar almost never bought?  Whaaaat?

[yudantaiteki]

Familiar is hands down the best card with a potion in its cost, so if people aren't buying it it's just because your group doesn't realize how powerful cursing attacks are.  (Or you play a lot of 4+ player.)

[KingZog3]

Familiar is hands down the best card with a potion in its cost, so if people aren't buying it it's just because your group doesn't realize how powerful cursing attacks are.  (Or you play a lot of 4+ player.)

Sorry, I grouped it wrong It's not fun is what I meant. It's always bought, but what does it add? Everyone just goes for it.

[serakfalcon]

It's always bought, but what does it add? Everyone just goes for it.

Attack cards are fun

[KingZog3]

It's always bought, but what does it add? Everyone just goes for it.

Attack cards are fun

Can be, but the luck factor of Familiar's cost is not fun. If you say it's fun when one players gets 3P and the other doesn't, I won't believe you. Other attack cards are interesting. Even though Mountebank is powerful, it has a built in Moat. Witch is weak after curses are out. Cultist has really interesting effect with TfB. Pillage is brutal but one shot. Margrave and Rabble can be built into an engine etc. Maybe it's just me, but games aren't fun if I just destroy my opponent, and especially if they destroy me. It's also why Goons is a bummer for me. It's very often the best strategy and whoever pulls Goons off first is most likely the winner of the game.

[yudantaiteki]

Yeah the dreaded "2P on a Familiar board" is rage-inducing.

[WanderingWinder]

Familiar is hands down the best card with a potion in its cost, so if people aren't buying it it's just because your group doesn't realize how powerful cursing attacks are.  (Or you play a lot of 4+ player.)

I am actually starting to put my hands up and say vineyards has a spot in the discussion.

[KingZog3]

Familiar is hands down the best card with a potion in its cost, so if people aren't buying it it's just because your group doesn't realize how powerful cursing attacks are.  (Or you play a lot of 4+ player.)

I am actually starting to put my hands up and say vineyards has a spot in the discussion.

As a fun or not fun card? Or another part of the discussion?