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[yuma]

I have debated about making a thread about this topic, but I think it is finally time.

I don't own any of the Goko cards. I want that to be at the top and I fully acknowledge that I can't be expected to have the complete Goko experience w/o owning all the cards. This isn't a post asking Goko to change anything because it is me that is choosing to not buy the cards at this time. (there now that is out of the way).

If I join a pro game (meaning I can't see the cards until I am in the game) that is only base cards I will write the following message:

Can I ask you a favor?

If you only have base cards could you please change the title of your game to reflect that, especially if you are hosting a pro game. Because, I and many other players do not enjoy playing only with base cards. You can change the game title when you create the game or you can host the game in casual mode.

I have no desire to play only with base cards.

Thanks, bye.

and then I leave the game, taking a hit to my rankings.

Some people genuinely don't know that they can change the name of the game and when I go back to the lounge I will see them create a game that includes "base only" in the title! Hooray!

However, I think for the most part I get extremely negative responses from people. They refuse to change the name of their game and insult me for asking and for quitting. They say it is a pain, or really difficult to change the name of a game (it isn't at all, it takes what 10 seconds) or that they won't get anyone to play with them if they change the name or only play casually. (This also isn't true, I think it can be harder to find a game this way, but that is the price of not buying the expansions).

This thread is mostly a plea to anyone who is reading to consider changing the title of your game if you are playing pro with base only. It will make me and a lot of other Dominion players much happier.

Thanks!

[gman314]

I agree. I'm in about the same place as you as a decent (if I do say so myself) player who plays pro games and doesn't own any cards other than base. I don't go to the same lengths as you when I find myself in such a game, but I do give them "the silent treatment"; not going through the niceties of chat like I normally do. I do try to join only games which say they have all sets in the title, but there really aren't enough of those.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I feel like that, when someone is hosting a pro game, the table should indicate what sets they own.

[gman314]

Something you can do to try getting non-base only pro games is to check the other player's pro rating before joining. In general, the good pro players only host games if they own most or all of the sets, because those players only want to play games with most or all of the sets.

[yuma]

Something you can do to try getting non-base only pro games is to check the other player's pro rating before joining. In general, the good pro players only host games if they own most or all of the sets, because those players only want to play games with most or all of the sets.

Yes or the amount of games that they have played... People hosting games with only ~50 games or so are usually going to be base only. But that isn't always true, but is a good indicator.

[hsiale]

They say it is a pain, or really difficult to change the name of a game (it isn't at all, it takes what 10 seconds)

Not being able to set a default name for your games is a pain. That's why I usually don't do this (I have all the sets though)

[yuma]

They say it is a pain, or really difficult to change the name of a game (it isn't at all, it takes what 10 seconds)

Not being able to set a default name for your games is a pain. That's why I usually don't do this (I have all the sets though)

It takes like 5 seconds... I was going to time it, but it was so short it wasn't even measurable. You create the game, highlight the text, write "base only" and tada! You are done!

Not that you necessarily should, like you said you have all the cards, so good on you. But for anyone attempting to use that excuse is just ridiculous.

[SCSN]

(This also isn't true, I think it can be harder to find a game this way, but that is the price of not buying the expansions).

No, that's in fact the price of putting that information in the game title. I don't understand why you're surprised that people respond negatively when you essentially demand them to hurt themselves for your benefit.

You also have a very arrogant and dismissive tone. Had I been hosting base pro games (dear God!), I would consider your request had you phrased it politely. Upon receiving the message quoted in the OP, however, I would respond with a "lol no way, and tnx for the free win".

[qmech]

The Base pro games are annoying, but I fixed that by buying all the cards.  That has the following consequence: that most of the games I play, I host.  So there's a risk that Goko users split into Hosters and Joiners, and that the two groups never get to play with each other.  This is particularly sad because Hosters are probably as a rule the better players, and it's hard enough getting a decent game already.

Perhaps the right solution is to mark players who have all the cards.  That avoids stigmatising the free players (who Goko hopes will later pay), and provides an extra incentive to buy everything.

They say it is a pain, or really difficult to change the name of a game (it isn't at all, it takes what 10 seconds)

It is a pain changing the name of the game.  It remembers everything else about the game; it should remember the name too.  There isn't enough time in the day to do all the things that will only take me 10 seconds.

[philosophyguy]

Not that you necessarily should, like you said you have all the cards, so good on you. But for anyone attempting to use that excuse is just ridiculous.

Viewed in isolation, maybe. But it becomes far less ridiculous when you look at the whole experience. To set up a table, you need to create game, choose professional, choose the number of seats, change the name, and click setup. Then, click on whoever joins your table to see if they have a decent pro rating, then either accept or boot. And you have to do this EVERY. TIME. you host a game.

I remember when Canonical started their 100 Paper Cuts project. The idea was to fix issues that weren't even bugs, but were UI annoyances. Viewed in isolation, none of them were significant. But if you keep getting small injuries, like papercuts, while trying to do something, there's a cumulative effect.

Goko's interface is a huge series of papercuts. The lobby layout, setting up a game, matching yourself with someone—and god forbid if you actually want to build a custom kingdom—the entire experience is set up with almost zero thought for how to accomplish common tasks efficiently. That adds up.

I've given up on being able to play Goko in the background like I could with Iso—that's not what they're aiming for, and I've reconciled myself to that. But I do miss how amazingly efficient Iso was, and I don't think it's too much to ask to make STARTING A GAME a one- or two-click process.

[yuma]

(This also isn't true, I think it can be harder to find a game this way, but that is the price of not buying the expansions).

No, that's in fact the price of putting that information in the game title. I don't understand why you're surprised that people respond negatively when you essentially demand them to hurt themselves for your benefit.

You also have a very arrogant and dismissive tone. Had I been hosting base pro games (dear God!), I would consider your request had you phrased it politely. Upon receiving the message quoted in the OP, however, I would respond with a "lol no way, and tnx for the free win".

what is dismissive or arrogant about my quote? I ask them a favor. I explain why I would like to ask them this favor. I don't demand anything. I thank them at the end.

I mean the people that I am criticizing here to the biggest extent are the people who treat my favor like it is the biggest favor they have ever received in their lives... who then proceed to insult me, call me names and are just genuinely rude. When I have continued in conversations with these people their rational for hosting pro base games are what I said above, that it is too hard and that no one will play with them. I don't know what their excuse for being extremely rude to someone asking them a simple favor is.

If someone said, thanks for the advice, I understand where you are coming from, but I would rather not. That is fine! Like you said, that is the price I pay for not buying into Goko. Tough for me. And I understand that. My complaint is when someone reacts like I am being a complete and total jerk by asking some thing nicely that they may not be aware that they are doing.

[yuma]

Not that you necessarily should, like you said you have all the cards, so good on you. But for anyone attempting to use that excuse is just ridiculous.

Viewed in isolation, maybe. But it becomes far less ridiculous when you look at the whole experience. To set up a table, you need to create game, choose professional, choose the number of seats, change the name, and click setup. Then, click on whoever joins your table to see if they have a decent pro rating, then either accept or boot. And you have to do this EVERY. TIME. you host a game.

But they are already in that screen. And further... they have already taken the time to change it to professional... so obviously they are willing to take some effort and don't want to just play dominion ASAP. If they are willing to take 2 seconds to change it to pro, why not be willing to take 2 seconds to say "base only?"

I think an easy solution for this is to have a base only lobby. There solution. If people host base outside of this lobby, I can point them nicely in that direction (still taking the hit for the loss).

[math]

I also have a decently high pro rating but own only the base set, and I do something similar.  When I join a pro game that is base only, I say something like, "When you host a base game in pro, put a note in the title saying it's base."  I usually finish out the game, but it is a pain to deal with.  I have been insulted a few times as well, but mostly the response has been positive.  I have seen several people create a new game with "base" in the title after our game.

[GendoIkari]

But what about people who own all the sets, and then the random kingdom selection chooses cards from only base? (Quick, someone calculate the odds!)

Seriously though, I agree with you, though I just end up suffering through those games. Of course, as I've gone into detail before, the solution is to get rid of the stupid idea of "hosting vs joining" games. I also like the solution of automatically listing what sets are owned by any player who hosts a game.

[GendoIkari]

The Base pro games are annoying, but I fixed that by buying all the cards.  That has the following consequence: that most of the games I play, I host.  So there's a risk that Goko users split into Hosters and Joiners, and that the two groups never get to play with each other.  This is particularly sad because Hosters are probably as a rule the better players, and it's hard enough getting a decent game already.

So all Dominion players are broken into 2 groups of people; the hosters and the joiners. And ironically, this would be perfect; if hosters mainly played other hosters and joiners mainly played other joiners... because they're more likely to be similar types of players. But instead, it's forced that a hoster can only play a joiner; the exact opposite of ideal.

[gman314]

But what about people who own all the sets, and then the random kingdom selection chooses cards from only base? (Quick, someone calculate the odds!)

2.211*10^-10, or, 0.000000000211, or, 0.0000000211%.

[Stealth Tomato]

It's notable that listing "All Sets" both eliminates this fear for opponents and prevents you from getting joined by Base Set Heroes™ who have a good rating and no idea how to deal with half the cards. It's less a problem now, but it happened to me more than once earlier in Goko's lifetime.

[Robz888]

I just try not to join a game if the player has only played like 50 games.

Of course, competition to join games is so steep that I usually click join, and then check the host's info, and then try to un-join if it's probably a Base Set Hero. Sometimes it's too late though.

[gman314]

The Base pro games are annoying, but I fixed that by buying all the cards.  That has the following consequence: that most of the games I play, I host.  So there's a risk that Goko users split into Hosters and Joiners, and that the two groups never get to play with each other.  This is particularly sad because Hosters are probably as a rule the better players, and it's hard enough getting a decent game already.

So all Dominion players are broken into 2 groups of people; the hosters and the joiners. And ironically, this would be perfect; if hosters mainly played other hosters and joiners mainly played other joiners... because they're more likely to be similar types of players. But instead, it's forced that a hoster can only play a joiner; the exact opposite of ideal.

This whole hoster/joiner thing also makes it less likely that I'll buy any cards. I'm a pretty good player and so I like to play against hosters, so if the only advantage of buying cards is the right to become a hoster and then only play joiners, I have no interest in buying any cards.

[Fabian]

It's notable that listing "All Sets" both eliminates this fear for opponents and prevents you from getting joined by Base Set Heroes™ who have a good rating and no idea how to deal with half the cards. It's less a problem now, but it happened to me more than once earlier in Goko's lifetime.

I've definitely been like this when I've played in the last week, but only with Dark Ages cards. Hopefully my opponents didn't mind too much, but damn some of those cards are confusing!

[philosophyguy]

Although listing all sets is helpful on the hoster side, it doesn't solve the hosters/joiners divide problem. I think the best short-term solution there is for the community to make a concerted effort to play games in a specific lobby. If we all hang out in Outpost, there's a much higher chance of people who own the sets also being able to join tables hosted by someone with all the sets.

[Kirian]

Although listing all sets is helpful on the hoster side, it doesn't solve the hosters/joiners divide problem. I think the best short-term solution there is for the community to make a concerted effort to play games in a specific lobby. If we all hang out in Outpost, there's a much higher chance of people who own the sets also being able to join tables hosted by someone with all the sets.

While I tend to like this idea, the problem is that the f.ds community is perhaps 10% of the Goko community.  So there will only be a couple of games at a time between f.ds members.

Maybe pick a specific day to try to start this, ask people to be a little bit extra patient in finding games, as an experiment?

[greatexpectations]

in theory this should all be fixed by a good matchmaking system anyway. but it still presents problems (i think) in ratings and skill calculations.

[Stealth Tomato]

It's notable that listing "All Sets" both eliminates this fear for opponents and prevents you from getting joined by Base Set Heroes™ who have a good rating and no idea how to deal with half the cards. It's less a problem now, but it happened to me more than once earlier in Goko's lifetime.

I've definitely been like this when I've played in the last week, but only with Dark Ages cards. Hopefully my opponents didn't mind too much, but damn some of those cards are confusing!

Yeah, this is to be expected with newer sets, but being new to everything at once is totally overwhelming to a player and Professional is REALLY not the place to be discovering that.

On a side note, the Dark Ages learning curve is REALLY LONG. There are so many wacky things you can do with DA, and a lot of very, very good strategies that ride a very thin line between highly efficient and totally wrecked and useless.

[qmech]

On a side note, the Dark Ages learning curve is REALLY LONG.

+1 for avoiding "really steep".