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[Watno]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7824.0

I assume it's forbidden to use it in tournament games / only allowed with consent of the opponent?

[jsh357]

while I was against the iso counter, goko shows the entire log anyway, so I don't think this counter is telling you anything you couldn't have known by scanning the log...  I think it should be allowed.

[Kirian]

Also, the basic Iso Counter was always considered OK.  This only adds a tiny amount of information... eventually we can hope that pro games won't have the full log.

So, ruling:  It is allowed but if you plan to use it, you need to make sure your opponent at least has the chance to download the script, i.e. point him or her here.

[SCSN]

eventually we can hope that pro games won't have the full log.

Huh, why!? I think that as much information that is "out there" as possible should be readily available to all players. Deducing the point differential/keeping track of the score is very trivial yet very boring, and having to do it slows the game down a bit and makes for an overall slightly less pleasurable gaming experience. I want to focus on strategic and tactical decisions, not waste time with bookkeeping.

[nutki]

I assume it's forbidden to use it in tournament games / only allowed with consent of the opponent?

The opponent will know anyway because enabling of the counter is advertised on the chat automatically. On top of that it can also be disabled by the opponent without even having the script installed.
All that assuming that players use unmodified version of the script of course, but you cannot really prevent point counting as it is based on public knowledge.

Also, the basic Iso Counter was always considered OK.  This only adds a tiny amount of information... eventually we can hope that pro games won't have the full log.

I think it is too late for that, the log extension will display the full log anyway, even if the goko one will be cut tho the last turn.

[DStu]

eventually we can hope that pro games won't have the full log.

Huh, why!? I think that as much information that is "out there" as possible should be readily available to all players. Deducing the point differential/keeping track of the score is very trivial yet very boring, and having to do it slows the game down a bit and makes for an overall slightly less pleasurable gaming experience. I want to focus on strategic and tactical decisions, not waste time with bookkeeping.

[Kirian]

eventually we can hope that pro games won't have the full log.

Huh, why!? I think that as much information that is "out there" as possible should be readily available to all players. Deducing the point differential/keeping track of the score is very trivial yet very boring, and having to do it slows the game down a bit and makes for an overall slightly less pleasurable gaming experience. I want to focus on strategic and tactical decisions, not waste time with bookkeeping.

lol

Yeah, probably best not to get into this discussion in this forum.  I'm certain there's somewhere else we can rehash the discussion of what ought to be allowed in a game originally designed to be played in person presumably without paper memory aids for what's in other people's decks.

[SCSN]

a game originally designed to be played in person presumably without paper memory aids for what's in other people's decks.

I found out about Dominion's physical implementation only after my first few hundred games on iso

[ooksoo]

iI disagree about the point counter, because on a face to face game you won't have that, and iI assume you won't write it down or making notes of anyway other then just remember it, once you got good enough, you will be able to. aAnd iI do consider that as cheating, even the log viewer on game, is ok to read it after the game and use it on sharing purpose only, but reading it in the games should not be allowed. iI'm some one who often goes around to play dominion with real person. sSo imagine when you are playing a game with actual cards, can you ask your opponent what did you brought on the third turn? hHow many copper did you play on this shelfful, if you are the opponent, would you tell?

Look, I understand typos and can deal with grammar issues, but please don't use text-speak if you want to be taken seriously. -- K

[Stealth Tomato]

i disagree about the point counter, because on a face to face game u won't have that, and i assume u won't write it down or making notes of anyway other then just remember it, once u got good enough, u will be able to. and i do consider that as cheating, even the log viewer on game, is ok to read it after the game and use it on sharing purpose only, but reading it in the games should not be allowed. im some one who often goes around to play dominion with real person. so imagine when u r playing a game with actual cards, can u ask ur opponent what did u brought on the third turn? how many copper did u play on this shelfful, if u r the opponent, would u tell?

What if I have the animations on Very Fast and can't tell what card I just discarded with Jester?

[Kirian]

iI disagree about the point counter, because on a face to face game you won't have that, and iI assume you won't write it down or making notes of anyway other then just remember it, once you got good enough, you will be able to. aAnd iI do consider that as cheating, even the log viewer on game, is ok to read it after the game and use it on sharing purpose only, but reading it in the games should not be allowed. iI'm some one who often goes around to play dominion with real person. sSo imagine when you are playing a game with actual cards, can you ask your opponent what did you brought on the third turn? hHow many copper did you play on this shelfful, if you are the opponent, would you tell?

This discussion has been had so, so, so very many times, man.  There have been more threads on this than you have total posts here.  Do a forum search for "point counter extension" and you'll find my opinions on it (which are closer to yours than you might otherwise think)... and just about everyone else's opinions too.

Oh!  Don't forget the pages-long thread about last year's online national qualifier!  That was a doozy.  And we're not going to go through it here, because this is not a competition with actual prizes.

[ftl]

even the log viewer on game, is ok to read it after the game and use it on sharing purpose only,

I would have agreed with this back on isotropic, but on goko the log is right there and available to everyone, it doesn't require an extra extension to look at it, the extension just adds pretty colors and puts it off to the side instead of in a button.

[heron]

Isotropic sometimes showed the whole log to me, for reasons I never understood. There was a bug report thread about it awhile back or something, but I don't think it was ever fixed.
On the point counter, well, since you can take scrupulous notes about the game without anyone knowing, I think it is best to have the point counter just so that a really competitive player can't sneak in that advantage. Actually probably nobody does that.
And yeah, you can count points yourself, and it's not hard, but it's annoying.

[qmech]

Isotropic sometimes showed the whole log to me, for reasons I never understood.

I don't know if anyone understands that.  It still happens with Innovation.

[timchen]

Does this correlate with the fact that your opponent is unregistered?

[qmech]

I don't know about correlating, but it happens sometimes when I'm playing the same group of logged in friends, so it's not exclusively an unregistered issue.

[heron]

I rarely play with unregistered players, so I cannot determine correlation either.

[werothegreat]

I try to shellful my deck as often as possible.