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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)  (Read 157402 times)

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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #375 on: June 18, 2013, 12:07:10 am »
0

Cultist is underrated, probably from lack of experience at the time we voted. And Hunting Party is overrated, which I think is consistent with the general trend that stuff that is simple is viewed as being stronger since it doesn't require too much thought or skill to play it well enough.

IGG is overrated.
Where do you have it?

The way I see it, it's bad when there is strong trashing, but otherwise it's like completely dominant. That's worse than the junking attacks and Wharf and Governor and Rebuild, which seem to be key cards practically all the time, but it's better than everything else.
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Powerman

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #376 on: June 18, 2013, 12:16:26 am »
0

Cultist is underrated, probably from lack of experience at the time we voted. And Hunting Party is overrated, which I think is consistent with the general trend that stuff that is simple is viewed as being stronger since it doesn't require too much thought or skill to play it well enough.

IGG is overrated.
Where do you have it?

The way I see it, it's bad when there is strong trashing, but otherwise it's like completely dominant. That's worse than the junking attacks and Wharf and Governor and Rebuild, which seem to be key cards practically all the time, but it's better than everything else.

I don't think it is overrated.  There are few strategies that can beat uncontested HP.  And contesting and losing 6-4 is normally gg.  Even cursers have decent counters (trashing, sifting, HP), and losing the curse split 6-4 is alright if you have slightly better economy afterward.

I'd say for the $5's there is a big 7: Wharf, HP, Rebuild, Cultist, IGG, Witch, Mountebank.  The order within these depends a lot on individual player preference -- ie. BM vs. Engine.

Then it's the group of MUCH more board dependent cards: Torturer, Minion, Governor, and (not as much so) Ghost Ship.  Torturer needs village support, Minion needs trashing, Governor needs one of a number of things, Ghost Ship isn't as much so.

But, those are just my thoughts.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #377 on: June 18, 2013, 01:11:13 am »
+2

Cultist is underrated, probably from lack of experience at the time we voted. And Hunting Party is overrated, which I think is consistent with the general trend that stuff that is simple is viewed as being stronger since it doesn't require too much thought or skill to play it well enough.


I don't think it is overrated.  There are few strategies that can beat uncontested HP.  And contesting and losing 6-4 is normally gg.  Even cursers have decent counters (trashing, sifting, HP), and losing the curse split 6-4 is alright if you have slightly better economy afterward.

Actually, I'd probably say "there are few really simple strategies that can beat uncontested HP (with a sufficiently good terminal)". There are plenty of strategies that beat HP-centric strategies, they just involve more than 2 kinds of kingdom cards.

I would also not say HP counters cursing. I'd say the opposite. And I also don't think a 6-4 HP split is as bad as you make it out to be. You can make the same argument you made about losing the Curse split. If you have a better deck otherwise, it's fine to be on the losing end of either split.

Anyway, I think HP is probably about 4 spots too high. It's not like I want it out of the top 10. But I do think it's more in the company of Torturer and Minion than Wharf and IGG.
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serakfalcon

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #378 on: June 18, 2013, 03:03:45 am »
0

Quote
I think Robz has the rankings spot on except Mountebank is usually better than Witch. I would put Cultist above Wharf and Governor above Hunting Party. With Soothsayer maybe the top 5 will look something like this.

1. Rebuild
2. Mountebank
3. Witch
4. Cultist
5. Soothsayer

lololol Rebuild isn't that good come on
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loppo

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #379 on: June 18, 2013, 03:26:53 am »
+1

Quote
I think Robz has the rankings spot on except Mountebank is usually better than Witch. I would put Cultist above Wharf and Governor above Hunting Party. With Soothsayer maybe the top 5 will look something like this.

1. Rebuild
2. Mountebank
3. Witch
4. Cultist
5. Soothsayer

lololol Rebuild isn't that good come on

hmm..., Rebuild is that good in a province/estate game. Add shelters and/or colonies and you have a different picture. The more i play with rebuild the more i think shelters should be autoincluded when rebuild is in the kingdom to eve things out.
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brokoli

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #380 on: June 18, 2013, 03:32:19 am »
0

Wharf is a great, but I don't see it as an essential card, unlike Hunting party. IGG is really dominant most of the time. I don't remember any game where I ignored Cultist, although this could be a mistake because DA is still recent.
I'm tempted to say that Tactician should be higher than ghost ship, but it is very dependent. And Minion is as always overrated...

My top 10 :
1. Mountebank
2. Rebuild
3. Witch
4. IGG
5. Cultist
6. Hunting party
7. Wharf
8. Governor (I may be in bad faith since I hate this card, but it doesn't seems so strong for me)
9. Ghost ship / Tactician
10. Ghost ship / Tacician

And I have no idea where to put Soothsayer. I think the gold gaining is a little bit overrated and the free lab can be very good for the opponent in a game with slow or fast trashing, so I think it won't belong in the first part of the list, but I may be wrong because I played no more than 3 games with this card.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #381 on: June 18, 2013, 05:39:21 am »
0

I think Counterfeit is pretty mediocre

I disagree, I think it's amazing.

Ok. I make a confession. As you might know I'm a big fan of Counterfeit. I've put Counterfeit at #13 and I thought while making that, that it's probably too high, but now I'm more and more sure that this about the correct rank. It should be somewhere around rank #15 and is currently still way underrated. You want it almost always over your first Gold.

And now I just saw this video of WanderingWinder:
Amazing!

ragingduckd

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #382 on: June 18, 2013, 06:41:52 am »
0

You want it almost always over your first Gold.

I'd be interested to see the base cards included next time around.

This is a fun read and a great resource. Really nice work, Qvist!
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RTT

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #383 on: June 18, 2013, 06:50:49 am »
+3

You want it almost always over your first Gold.

I'd be interested to see the base cards included next time around.

This is a fun read and a great resource. Really nice work, Qvist!
Best Cards List 2014: 8$ Cards
#1 Province
#2 Peddler
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #384 on: June 18, 2013, 06:52:24 am »
0

You want it almost always over your first Gold.

I'd be interested to see the base cards included next time around.

The majority declined that. See for example this: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5693.0

SirPeebles

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #385 on: June 18, 2013, 10:28:19 am »
+3

You want it almost always over your first Gold.

I'd be interested to see the base cards included next time around.

This is a fun read and a great resource. Really nice work, Qvist!
Best Cards List 2014: 8$ Cards
#1 Province
#2 Peddler

What about $8 Stonemason for two Grand Markets?

*ducks*
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NoMoreFun

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #386 on: June 18, 2013, 10:56:46 am »
+1

Best $10 cards

1) Masterpiece, gaining 7 silvers
2) Herald, setting up a hand plus an extra card
3) Doctor, sifting 7 cards
4) Stonemason, gaining 2 Peddlers
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liopoil

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #387 on: June 18, 2013, 11:01:37 am »
0

10$ doctor is probably better than 10$ herald, right? I mean, it obviously depends, but early in the game that doctor is huge. If you have 2 KC and 3 Bridges in your discard, on the other hand...
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gman314

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #388 on: June 18, 2013, 11:30:58 am »
+2

Best $10 cards

...
4) Stonemason, gaining 2 Peddlers

Only works if you have $10 with no actions.
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gman314

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #389 on: June 18, 2013, 11:32:38 am »
0

And, I now have a weird rules question. Can Stonemason gain two Peddlers for $0 if you overpay by $0 for it after playing at least 4 action cards?
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liopoil

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #390 on: June 18, 2013, 11:34:20 am »
+1

we've been over that one, the answer is no. :P

I think you could also gain two peddlers from a 10$ stonemason that you bought from the black market deck.
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #391 on: June 18, 2013, 11:34:39 am »
0

And, I now have a weird rules question. Can Stonemason gain two Peddlers for $0 if you overpay by $0 for it after playing at least 4 action cards?

No, overpay cannot be $0. But you can overpay $P.
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Just a Rube

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 1/6)
« Reply #392 on: June 18, 2013, 03:15:01 pm »
+3

Best $10 cards

...
4) Stonemason, gaining 2 Peddlers

Only works if you have $10 with no actions.
My death cart trashed itself. As did my mining villages and Dame Sylvia.

Hey, I really wanted those peddlers!
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gman314

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #393 on: June 18, 2013, 03:20:20 pm »
0

Dame Sylvia didn't trash herself; Sir Vander trashed her!
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SirPeebles

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #394 on: June 18, 2013, 04:09:44 pm »
+5

Dame Sylvia didn't trash herself; Sir Vander trashed her!

Cards don't trash people;  people trash people.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #395 on: June 18, 2013, 04:32:31 pm »
0

hmm..., Rebuild is that good in a province/estate game. Add shelters and/or colonies and you have a different picture. The more i play with rebuild the more i think shelters should be autoincluded when rebuild is in the kingdom to eve things out.

Yeah, there are a lot of cards that are better in their own expansion, but Rebuild stands out as the card that's the worst in the context of its own expansion. It's like it needs the other Dark Ages cards to hold it back. Shelters are the big one, of course, but Knights (and perhaps Rogue) can also really hurt a Rebuild strategy.
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AJD

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #396 on: June 18, 2013, 04:40:06 pm »
0

Yeah, there are a lot of cards that are better in their own expansion, but Rebuild stands out as the card that's the worst in the context of its own expansion.

Good point! There's an old thread about this; I think I might nominate Philosopher's Stone for top honors in this category.
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Schneau

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #397 on: June 18, 2013, 05:53:02 pm »
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In the Secret History of Dark Ages, Donald says that Rebuild was a late addition to the set. This may be the reason it fits so poorly with Dark Ages.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #398 on: June 18, 2013, 05:56:31 pm »
+4

In the Secret History of Dark Ages, Donald says that Rebuild was a late addition to the set. This may be the reason it's overpowered and not balanced.

FIFY

LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)
« Reply #399 on: June 18, 2013, 06:34:50 pm »
+1

In the Secret History of Dark Ages, Donald says that Rebuild was a late addition to the set. This may be the reason it's overpowered and not balanced.

FIFY

Yeah. Goons was also a late addition to its set. I'm seeing a pattern here.

Good point! There's an old thread about this; I think I might nominate Philosopher's Stone for top honors in this category.

Good call, although experience tells me that I'm actually more likely to buy a Philosopher's Stone in an Alchemy heavy game simply because I'm more likely to have a Potion to spend. Rarely am I buying a Potion just for PStone. Obviously in a Scrying Pool deck or one with a bunch of Alchemists I don't want the Stones. But in a game with Familiar, Herbalist, even Golem, I really do want them.
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