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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 6/6)  (Read 86492 times)

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only3provinces

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #125 on: April 18, 2013, 03:00:50 pm »
+1

I don't think Trading Post is this bad. It's good for money strats and it's not even that bad for engine strats because it removes a card from the deck (and it will usually replace bad cards with a better one).

It's only good for money if you can open with it. After that, it's kind of too late, as it will rarely even produce $2. And yeah, it's not bad for engines, but not that good either, unless there's cursing or something. I think it belongs down here, though I won't be disappointed if it's one of the next 2 cards to show up or something.

I agree. Trading Post always looks good at the beginning, but if you don't open 5/2, it is not usually worth the buy (unless there is cursing/ruining going on).  It should have shown up by now.

I want to give more love to Mystic. It s a great source of money in an engine and synergizes well with plenty of cards (especially with itself, Minion-style).  Once everyone gets a better handle on DA, we should see more love. 

And Rogue is way overrated.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #126 on: April 18, 2013, 03:53:15 pm »
0

Man, you guys are way underrating Trading Post. Sure, it's not usually worth it after the first 5 turns or so, but you wouldn't buy Chapel on turn 6 either. Trading Post is just harder to get to that early.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #127 on: April 18, 2013, 04:15:19 pm »
0

Man, you guys are way overrating Trading Post. Sure, it can be pretty nice on turn 1-2, but after that it's virtually worthless. And you only have a 1/6 chance of getting it that early (okay, nomad camp and Noble Brigand shenanigans... pretty much 1/6).

Okay, slight exaggeration. But seriously, I don't understand why it isn't really near the bottom. I think I would have it as something around 10th worst. Let's look at what it does - as a trasher, it only reduces the size of your deck by 1. This is like a trade route. Of course, trade route isn't all that terrible - for a 3-cost. And this gives you silver. Well, that is *generally* going to be a little better than trade route, but on the other hand, you have to have two cards to trash, which is a definite downside, it doesn't give a buy, and you probably aren't buying trade route and playing it for 0 coins very much.

Alright, so how valuable are the silvers? That's the real question. And well, okay they're decent enough for big money, but if you're playing big money, you tend to want other terminals more. I mean, it's a little bit like jack of all trades here, except it costs 5, gives you some money, leaves your hand-size smaller, and most importantly, often can't be played later on. For being able to trash some coppers. Basically that's a pretty good (though by no means game-breaking) deal on t1-2, occasionally buyable on 3-4, and almost never worth it after, for money. The best uses I find for it after 1-2 are in game with lots of junking attacks which are totally, particularly if they are going to be money-based out of that or engines-based with absolutely no other trashers around.

I mean, I just don't get it.

Robz888

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #128 on: April 18, 2013, 04:22:03 pm »
0

Man, you guys are way overrating Trading Post. Sure, it can be pretty nice on turn 1-2, but after that it's virtually worthless. And you only have a 1/6 chance of getting it that early (okay, nomad camp and Noble Brigand shenanigans... pretty much 1/6).

Okay, slight exaggeration. But seriously, I don't understand why it isn't really near the bottom. I think I would have it as something around 10th worst. Let's look at what it does - as a trasher, it only reduces the size of your deck by 1. This is like a trade route. Of course, trade route isn't all that terrible - for a 3-cost. And this gives you silver. Well, that is *generally* going to be a little better than trade route, but on the other hand, you have to have two cards to trash, which is a definite downside, it doesn't give a buy, and you probably aren't buying trade route and playing it for 0 coins very much.

Alright, so how valuable are the silvers? That's the real question. And well, okay they're decent enough for big money, but if you're playing big money, you tend to want other terminals more. I mean, it's a little bit like jack of all trades here, except it costs 5, gives you some money, leaves your hand-size smaller, and most importantly, often can't be played later on. For being able to trash some coppers. Basically that's a pretty good (though by no means game-breaking) deal on t1-2, occasionally buyable on 3-4, and almost never worth it after, for money. The best uses I find for it after 1-2 are in game with lots of junking attacks which are totally, particularly if they are going to be money-based out of that or engines-based with absolutely no other trashers around.

I mean, I just don't get it.

Well, I don't disagree with the points you're making, even though I hold Trading Post in at least slightly higher esteem. I guess I would say that the junking case seems like a bigger deal to me. And we have more stuff that junks your deck now, thanks to Dark Ages. Trading Post is going to be one of my go-to deck rebuilders if I am overwhelmed by Curses and Ruins, I think. Also, Dark Ages likes cards that trash other cards, so Trading Post has that slight boost going for it.
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Robz888

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #129 on: April 18, 2013, 04:23:15 pm »
0

Although now that I am thinking about it, if I am trying to recover from junking, I still prefer Chapel, Steward, Masquerade, Jack-of-All Trades, and Remake. So maybe I am wrong.

Trading Post = better in 3 and 4-player junking games, maybe?
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jaybeez

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #130 on: April 18, 2013, 08:00:04 pm »
0

I think really the only nice upside of Trading Post is that you gain the Silver in-hand, so you can trash two cards and still (maybe) buy something you actually want.  But I agree with the people who are saying it should have appeared already, it's really only at its best as a counter to Torturer, I think.  Almost all other trashers are better for actual deck-thinning.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:01:17 pm by jaybeez »
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DG

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #131 on: April 18, 2013, 11:25:33 pm »
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Trading post is the trasher that gives you all the treasure that you need. All you have to do is harness it.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2013, 04:47:10 am »
0

Okay, slight exaggeration. But seriously, I don't understand why it isn't really near the bottom. I think I would have it as something around 10th worst. Let's look at what it does - as a trasher, it only reduces the size of your deck by 1. This is like a trade route. Of course, trade route isn't all that terrible - for a 3-cost. And this gives you silver. Well, that is *generally* going to be a little better than trade route, but on the other hand, you have to have two cards to trash, which is a definite downside, it doesn't give a buy, and you probably aren't buying trade route and playing it for 0 coins very much.
I think Steward is a better comparison - Trading Post is much like Steward, you just can choose two options and always have to choose +$2 and trash, and then it gives a Silver in addition to that. Which is not great for a $5.
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dondon151

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2013, 05:30:52 am »
0

Let's look at what it does - as a trasher, it only reduces the size of your deck by 1.

A lot of trashers reduce the size of your deck by 1. Actually, most trashers reduce the size of your deck by 1. And honestly, trashing 1 card at a time very often makes a huge difference in determining engine viability. Playing a single-card trasher a few times over the course of the game adds up to something substantial. With Trading Post, you also replace another card with a Silver.

This is like a trade route. Of course, trade route isn't all that terrible - for a 3-cost. And this gives you silver. Well, that is *generally* going to be a little better than trade route, but on the other hand, you have to have two cards to trash, which is a definite downside, it doesn't give a buy, and you probably aren't buying trade route and playing it for 0 coins very much.

I'm going to disagree with almost everything here. A "little" better than Trade Route is understating how bad Trade Route really is (and I think Trade Route is not a bad $3, but it's not great either). Trading Post will give +$1 the first, maybe the second time that you play it (+$2 if you get lucky). Trade Route will almost always give +$0 the first few times that you play it. If you're in the situation where playing Trading Post will yield +$0, in that same situation, playing Trade Route will yield -$1.

That $1 makes a big difference! The difference between $3 and $4 matters if what you want is at $4 and not $3. Replacing another card with a Silver just makes your hands more productive on average on future shuffles. This is a lot better than Trade Route.

Trading Post doesn't give a +buy: what good would a +buy do you when your hands have trouble hitting even $5? Trade Route needs either an existing engine or lots of tokens on the mat to make its +buy useful. That doesn't happen until later.

You probably aren't buying Trade Route and playing it for +$0 very much: if TR were the only trasher in the kingdom, then I'd take it if I need a trasher. TR shines in slog endgames, but that's not the only situation in which it is desirable to buy one. Of course Trading Post gets progressively worse as the game goes on, but that's just what it is.

Alright, so how valuable are the silvers? That's the real question. And well, okay they're decent enough for big money, but if you're playing big money, you tend to want other terminals more. I mean, it's a little bit like jack of all trades here, except it costs 5, gives you some money, leaves your hand-size smaller, and most importantly, often can't be played later on. For being able to trash some coppers. Basically that's a pretty good (though by no means game-breaking) deal on t1-2, occasionally buyable on 3-4, and almost never worth it after, for money.

I think you are missing the potential of TP in engines, particularly drawing engines. In any case, replacing Estates with Silvers is incredibly strong in money strategies, as I'm sure we all know.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 05:34:36 am by dondon151 »
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gman314

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2013, 10:08:16 am »
0

I think you are missing the potential of TP in engines, particularly drawing engines. In any case, replacing Estates with Silvers is incredibly strong in money strategies, as I'm sure we all know.

Totally agree here. I've used TP as the only trashing to get a Conspirator engine going. No, the Silver wasn't that useful, so once I got to the deck drawing stage I was trashing two of them each turn. Even getting your deck down in size by a couple of cards can really help in all sorts of engines.
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Davio

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2013, 10:12:54 am »
0

Jack of all Trades is all the rage, but Trading Post can turn two Estates into a Silver instead of just one, hah!
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2013, 10:22:32 am »
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Jack of all Trades is all the rage, but Trading Post can turn two Estates into a Silver instead of just one, hah!
...or just trash Coppers to save a place in hand for later
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SCSN

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2013, 10:31:58 am »
+9

Jack of all Trades is all the rage, but Trading Post can turn two Estates into a Silver instead of just one, hah!

Remake is unimpressed.
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only3provinces

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2013, 11:52:57 am »
0

Trading post is the trasher that gives you all the treasure that you need. All you have to do is harness it.

I really like the can-do optimism here. It sounds like a quote from Mr. Miyagi or Yoda (though Trading Post is not as quick or seductive as the dark side).

The silver-in-hand ability of TP does add to its power. The trash for benefit is immediate and can help a ton early, maintaining buying power while thinning.

It's still rated too high.
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Davio

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #139 on: April 19, 2013, 11:55:55 am »
+2

Jack of all Trades is all the rage, but Trading Post can turn two Estates into a Silver instead of just one, hah!

Remake is unimpressed.
Trader snarks at Remake: you need two Estates for two Silvers, how about just one?
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GendoIkari

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #140 on: April 19, 2013, 12:10:11 pm »
+1

Jack of all Trades is all the rage, but Trading Post can turn two Estates into a Silver instead of just one, hah!

Remake is unimpressed.
Trader snarks at Remake: you need two Estates for two Silvers, how about just one?

Remodel an Estate, gaining Feodum, revealing Watchtower to trash Feodum and get 3 Silvers.

Also, discard 10 Market Squares to get 10 Golds, revealing Trader to each one to turn them into 10 Silvers.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 12:18:34 pm by GendoIkari »
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math

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #141 on: April 19, 2013, 12:50:55 pm »
0

Is this turning into the "how many silvers can you gain in one turn" thread?
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Robz888

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #142 on: April 19, 2013, 01:15:28 pm »
0

Jack of all Trades is all the rage, but Trading Post can turn two Estates into a Silver instead of just one, hah!

Remake is unimpressed.
Trader snarks at Remake: you need two Estates for two Silvers, how about just one?

Salvager says, "I'll just give you Silver-equivalent coin, no Treasure Card necessary."
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2013, 01:37:36 pm »
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Is this turning into the "how many silvers can you gain in one turn" thread?

I'm sure the answer is "all of them". I just don't know how yet.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #144 on: April 19, 2013, 02:06:11 pm »
0

All the silvers in one turn? Trivial. One action? That might actually be useful.
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math

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #145 on: April 19, 2013, 02:10:45 pm »
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If you're allowed to play as many actions as you want, gaining all the silvers is easy-just play 4 labs, then TR-KC-Trader-Trader to trash 5 Provinces.
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dondon151

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #146 on: April 19, 2013, 03:38:35 pm »
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It's still rated too high.

Do you really think it's bad enough to be in the same tier of cards as Royal Seal and Mandarin? Trading Post changes games. Royal Seal and Mandarin... mostly don't.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #147 on: April 19, 2013, 03:44:42 pm »
+1

It's still rated too high.

Do you really think it's bad enough to be in the same tier of cards as Royal Seal and Mandarin? Trading Post changes games. Royal Seal and Mandarin... mostly don't.
I fully agree that Royal Seal is worse than it - but RS should be very near the overall bottom of the list. Mandarin probably changes games about as much as trading post - though late game instead of early. But Saboteur probably has more game-changing impact than trading post, in all honesty. And I absolutely think that treasury, library, Council Room, Inn, are superior. For sure for sure.

dondon151

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #148 on: April 19, 2013, 04:29:11 pm »
0

I suppose we'll agree to disagree, but CR's popular buys indicate that Trading Post is not as bad of a card as you make it out to be.
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Robz888

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)
« Reply #149 on: April 19, 2013, 05:34:47 pm »
0

I don't think that Library and Council Room are superior, though it's a close-ish call for me. Inn, maybe. Setting up your net turn and keeping your deck pumping is just such a huge benefit.
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