Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion  (Read 29374 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

yed

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 620
  • Shuffle iT Username: yed
  • Respect: +571
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2013, 03:04:09 am »
0

Quote
That checkbox is randomized as well when you create the set, I think.

Ah, that's what I was missing.
Does Goko still think that "random" for Colonies is about 1/1000 chance?
I did a test: 100 clicks at randomize cards in unrated game
Colonies: 2
Shelters: 32
Try it too, I'm interested in your results.
I don't think we should be using Goko's randomizer.
Logged

florrat

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: florrat
  • Respect: +748
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2013, 07:33:36 am »
0

I did a test: 100 clicks at randomize cards in unrated game
Colonies: 2
Shelters: 32
Try it too, I'm interested in your results.
I don't think we should be using Goko's randomizer.
Interesting. I did the same, I got
23 Shelter games (I could have miscounted a few)
1 Colony game
Moreover, I noticed that the game suggests you use colonies iff there are 4 more or more cards from the prosperity set. I tested this hypothesis for about 50 more sets, and it seemed to hold. This is a terrible test function, especially since shelters are (probably) chosen properly (I've had a shelters game with 2 DA cards and one without shelters with 5 DA cards).

So maybe we can let Goko generate the set, but then use our own algorithm to decide to use shelters/colonies (for example: if top left card is prosperity: use colonies, if the card next to it is DA, use shelters). This is not optimal, because the cards are sorted by cost, so you won't get exactly the right probabilities, but close enough (and much closer than Goko's algorithm).
Logged

Kirian

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2013, 08:26:20 am »
0

So they fixed Shelters, and broke Colonies.  /sigh
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

DStu

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2627
  • Respect: +1490
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2013, 08:33:57 am »
0

I did a test: 100 clicks at randomize cards in unrated game
Colonies: 2
Shelters: 32
Try it too, I'm interested in your results.
I don't think we should be using Goko's randomizer.
Interesting. I did the same, I got
23 Shelter games (I could have miscounted a few)
1 Colony game
Moreover, I noticed that the game suggests you use colonies iff there are 4 more or more cards from the prosperity set. I tested this hypothesis for about 50 more sets, and it seemed to hold. This is a terrible test function, especially since shelters are (probably) chosen properly (I've had a shelters game with 2 DA cards and one without shelters with 5 DA cards).

So maybe we can let Goko generate the set, but then use our own algorithm to decide to use shelters/colonies (for example: if top left card is prosperity: use colonies, if the card next to it is DA, use shelters). This is not optimal, because the cards are sorted by cost, so you won't get exactly the right probabilities, but close enough (and much closer than Goko's algorithm).

For every other set you could probably kind of ignore correlation with costs, but for Prosperity that is a bad idea I guess.
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2833
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3879
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2013, 09:28:12 am »
+3

AdamH over heatthespurs 3-2

Some overall comments: Well played games, thanks for the match, heatthespurs. We had Shelters in four out of our five games -- this should confuse your discussion a bit.

Video Playlist link:

GAME 1: heatthespurs - 36, AdamH - 39

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366201107118.txt

Kingdom Cards: Transmute, Lighthouse, Menagerie, Bridge, Feast, Golem, Junk Dealer, Merchant Ship, Mountebank, Treasury -- with Shelters

Video link:

Everything was bought here except Transmute (imagine that). I open Feast/Lighthouse while he opens Bridge/Lighthouse. We both are defended pretty well by Lighthouses; I go for a more money-based strategy with a Mountebank, a Junk Dealer, and a Merchant Ship while he goes for a Golem-based engine. He has a couple of pretty nice turns, but with Golem as the only village, the engine proves to be too slow. Also, I begin to have some trouble with counting; that can be difficult sometimes, but I had five Provinces when I thought I only had four.


GAME 2: heatthespurs - 55, AdamH - 34

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366202250578.txt

Kingdom Cards: Crossroads, Squire, Menagerie, Monument, Navigator, Wandering Minstrel, Apprentice, Bandit Camp, Counterfeit, Library

Video link:

There's an engine here and we both go for it. We take similar but slightly different approaches, but he comes out firmly on top. I'm not positive what was the deciding factor, but if I had to guess, he prioritized copper-trashing with his Counterfeit to aim for a thin deck, whilst I prioritized Spoils-trashing with my Counterfeit. Because of this I think he was able to use Menagerie better for drawing.


GAME 3: AdamH - 30, heatthespurs - 40

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366203034282.txt

Kingdom Cards: Loan, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Nomad Camp, Rats, Sea Hag, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Festival, Harvest -- with Shelters

Video link:

Sea Hag with no way to get rid of Curses except for Rats, but then there's no way to get rid of the Rats. There's no draw either, so this one doesn't look like much fun. I open Sea Hag/Silver while he opens Horse Traders/Silver, which has to be a mistake, right? I feel like my strategy was more sound and focused, but I just hit $7 a lot and he hit $8, but hey I lost the game. He did comment that on my last turn I had $7 and would have won with one more dollar, maybe that's a theme for this match?


GAME 4: AdamH - 42, heatthespurs - 29

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366203823177.txt

Kingdom Cards:    Vineyard, Hamlet, Ambassador, Lookout, Storeroom, Feast, Remodel, Knights, Mine, Goons -- with Shelters

Video link:

Maybe not the most interesting kingdom we played, but I think it was the most interesting game. With no draw, Ambassador didn't play here, and the only Village was Hamlet. Vineyards probably wouldn't play a huge role because of the lack of non-terminals, so it seemed like a Money+Goons game. With my 5/2 split and the $2 Knight on top of the pile, I open with her instead of just getting a Silver and crying into my pillow. He plays well and gets off to a great lead, aggressively Remodeling to snatch up four Provinces very quickly. Then the tide starts to turn. I have a very fortunate couple of shuffles towards the end, and between the Knights I had and his aggressive Remodeling, his deck stalls hard, giving me some time to snag a Potion on a $4 turn and giving me a miracle Double-Goons + Potion hand which was really the deciding factor. I also get a lucky $8 to get the last Province at an opportune time. In all of my counting failures that you'll inevitably see on the videos, I refrain from making any in this game, which was probably significant.


GAME 5: heatthespurs - 38, AdamH - 40

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366205003575.txt

Kingdom Cards: Scheme, Storeroom, Baron, Coppersmith, Island, Procession, Bandit Camp, Highway, Junk Dealer, Tactician -- with Shelters

Video link:

Don't let the final score be an indicator of who played better this game: I was sorely outplayed here and I still don't understand how I managed to win this one. Like an idiot I play essentially BM with Islands a couple of Bandit Camps, and a Tactician, and I misclick and fail to trash my Hovel on Turn 1. He constructs an absolutely beautiful Tactician+Coppersmith deck with support from Scheme and Procession that can reliably have huge turns every other turn. He has three Provinces by turn 9 and five by turn 13. He gets some more green, but on his Tactician-fueled turn 18, he's only able to hit $7 (there's that theme again). He builds some more (turns out that's a mistake) and through dumb luck I squeak ahead before he gets another shot to end it. Let this be a lesson to you -- even if you're way behind and your opponent's deck is way better and he's outplaying you, sometimes 2-7 offsuit cracks pocket Aces anyways. Never give up.

TD Note: Posted
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 04:25:47 pm by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

Polk5440

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1708
  • Respect: +1788
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2013, 09:29:57 am »
0

I did a test: 100 clicks at randomize cards in unrated game
Colonies: 2
Shelters: 32
Try it too, I'm interested in your results.
I don't think we should be using Goko's randomizer.
Interesting. I did the same, I got
23 Shelter games (I could have miscounted a few)
1 Colony game
Moreover, I noticed that the game suggests you use colonies iff there are 4 more or more cards from the prosperity set. I tested this hypothesis for about 50 more sets, and it seemed to hold. This is a terrible test function, especially since shelters are (probably) chosen properly (I've had a shelters game with 2 DA cards and one without shelters with 5 DA cards).

So maybe we can let Goko generate the set, but then use our own algorithm to decide to use shelters/colonies (for example: if top left card is prosperity: use colonies, if the card next to it is DA, use shelters). This is not optimal, because the cards are sorted by cost, so you won't get exactly the right probabilities, but close enough (and much closer than Goko's algorithm).

Yikes. I was under the impression this was fixed when the shelters fix went out. I had not noticed an under-representation of colonies....
Logged

andwilk

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 201
  • Respect: +152
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2013, 12:33:44 pm »
0

I did a test: 100 clicks at randomize cards in unrated game
Colonies: 2
Shelters: 32
Try it too, I'm interested in your results.
I don't think we should be using Goko's randomizer.
Interesting. I did the same, I got
23 Shelter games (I could have miscounted a few)
1 Colony game
Moreover, I noticed that the game suggests you use colonies iff there are 4 more or more cards from the prosperity set. I tested this hypothesis for about 50 more sets, and it seemed to hold. This is a terrible test function, especially since shelters are (probably) chosen properly (I've had a shelters game with 2 DA cards and one without shelters with 5 DA cards).

So maybe we can let Goko generate the set, but then use our own algorithm to decide to use shelters/colonies (for example: if top left card is prosperity: use colonies, if the card next to it is DA, use shelters). This is not optimal, because the cards are sorted by cost, so you won't get exactly the right probabilities, but close enough (and much closer than Goko's algorithm).

Yikes. I was under the impression this was fixed when the shelters fix went out. I had not noticed an under-representation of colonies....

Has somebody posted this issue to GetSatisfaction?  Does anyone know if this issue only exists when you generate random card sets manually or does this issue carry over to professional mode games as well?
Logged

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4340
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2013, 12:36:43 pm »
0

I did a test: 100 clicks at randomize cards in unrated game
Colonies: 2
Shelters: 32
Try it too, I'm interested in your results.
I don't think we should be using Goko's randomizer.
Interesting. I did the same, I got
23 Shelter games (I could have miscounted a few)
1 Colony game
Moreover, I noticed that the game suggests you use colonies iff there are 4 more or more cards from the prosperity set. I tested this hypothesis for about 50 more sets, and it seemed to hold. This is a terrible test function, especially since shelters are (probably) chosen properly (I've had a shelters game with 2 DA cards and one without shelters with 5 DA cards).

So maybe we can let Goko generate the set, but then use our own algorithm to decide to use shelters/colonies (for example: if top left card is prosperity: use colonies, if the card next to it is DA, use shelters). This is not optimal, because the cards are sorted by cost, so you won't get exactly the right probabilities, but close enough (and much closer than Goko's algorithm).

Yikes. I was under the impression this was fixed when the shelters fix went out. I had not noticed an under-representation of colonies....

Has somebody posted this issue to GetSatisfaction?  Does anyone know if this issue only exists when you generate random card sets manually or does this issue carry over to professional mode games as well?

Must be happening in Pro Games too.  I only play Pro and have not seen a good number of Colonies in quite a while.
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2982
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2013, 12:45:59 pm »
+3

I posted it a few hours ago: https://getsatisfaction.com/goko/topics/too_few_colony_games_randomized_in_unranked_games. Awaiting bets on wether the'll say it's perfectly normal.
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2013, 01:01:47 pm »
0

Oh boy. Yeah. I think I've played only 3 Colony games or something in pro mode. Out of maybe 100 games.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

heatthespurs

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
  • Respect: +61
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2013, 01:19:58 pm »
+2


GAME 3: AdamH - 30, heatthespurs - 40
Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366203034282.txt

Kingdom Cards: Loan, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Nomad Camp, Rats, Sea Hag, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Festival, Harvest -- with Shelters

Video link: [link]

Sea Hag with no way to get rid of Curses except for Rats, but then there's no way to get rid of the Rats. There's no draw either, so this one doesn't look like much fun. I open Sea Hag/Silver while he opens Horse Traders/Silver, which has to be a mistake, right? I feel like my strategy was more sound and focused, but I just hit $7 a lot and he hit $8, but hey I lost the game. He did comment that on my last turn I had $7 and would have won with one more dollar, maybe that's a theme for this match?

The reason for me of going HT instead of Sea Hag is the existence of Band of Misfit. Since this is likely to be a long game, I do not want another dead card (the Hag) after the curse run out. So I risk losing the curse split a bit and get a Band of Misfit (delayed "Sea Hag"). Not sure if that is a right call though...

GAME 5: heatthespurs - 38, AdamH - 40

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366205003575.txt

Kingdom Cards: Scheme, Storeroom, Baron, Coppersmith, Island, Procession, Bandit Camp, Highway, Junk Dealer, Tactician -- with Shelters

Video link: [link]

Don't let the final score be an indicator of who played better this game: I was sorely outplayed here and I still don't understand how I managed to win this one. Like an idiot I play essentially BM with Islands a couple of Bandit Camps, and a Tactician, and I misclick and fail to trash my Hovel on Turn 1. He constructs an absolutely beautiful Tactician+Coppersmith deck with support from Scheme and Procession that can reliably have huge turns every other turn. He has three Provinces by turn 9 and five by turn 13. He gets some more green, but on his Tactician-fueled turn 18, he's only able to hit $7 (there's that theme again). He builds some more (turns out that's a mistake) and through dumb luck I squeak ahead before he gets another shot to end it. Let this be a lesson to you -- even if you're way behind and your opponent's deck is way better and he's outplaying you, sometimes 2-7 offsuit cracks pocket Aces anyways. Never give up.

While I can blame my luck here (hitting $6 + 1 Highway in a 10-card turn 15, and just missing the sixth and winning province), I did make some mistake... My deck is excellent in getting provinces quickly (5 province in 13 turns), though it would struggle to finish off the game since I basically have no economy (7 copper + 1 silver). I so much rely on the Procession-Coppersmith. With the Coppersmith gone on turn 13, and so many green cards rushing in, I should expect the stall even with the help of Tactician. Maybe a Storeroom could help here. And hey, both of us ignore Storeroom! I think Tactician-Storeroom is pretty solid with Highway as support here.

So... I am disappointed that I lose after constructing a beautiful Procession engine... but it is a great lesson.

Overall some fun and interesting games. Thank you AdamH for the games/video/comments!
Logged

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4340
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 02:42:38 pm by jsh357 »
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2833
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3879
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2013, 01:44:59 pm »
+1


GAME 3: AdamH - 30, heatthespurs - 40
Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366203034282.txt

Kingdom Cards: Loan, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Nomad Camp, Rats, Sea Hag, Worker's Village, Band of Misfits, Festival, Harvest -- with Shelters

Video link: [link]

Sea Hag with no way to get rid of Curses except for Rats, but then there's no way to get rid of the Rats. There's no draw either, so this one doesn't look like much fun. I open Sea Hag/Silver while he opens Horse Traders/Silver, which has to be a mistake, right? I feel like my strategy was more sound and focused, but I just hit $7 a lot and he hit $8, but hey I lost the game. He did comment that on my last turn I had $7 and would have won with one more dollar, maybe that's a theme for this match?

The reason for me of going HT instead of Sea Hag is the existence of Band of Misfit. Since this is likely to be a long game, I do not want another dead card (the Hag) after the curse run out. So I risk losing the curse split a bit and get a Band of Misfit (delayed "Sea Hag"). Not sure if that is a right call though...


Interesting. I wonder if that's worth it -- HT is good for getting to $5, so you're essentially trading the first curse I give you (since you just drew it with HT) in exchange for having your Sea Hag be a Horse Traders when the Curses are gone.

GAME 5: heatthespurs - 38, AdamH - 40

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1366205003575.txt

Kingdom Cards: Scheme, Storeroom, Baron, Coppersmith, Island, Procession, Bandit Camp, Highway, Junk Dealer, Tactician -- with Shelters

Video link: [link]

Don't let the final score be an indicator of who played better this game: I was sorely outplayed here and I still don't understand how I managed to win this one. Like an idiot I play essentially BM with Islands a couple of Bandit Camps, and a Tactician, and I misclick and fail to trash my Hovel on Turn 1. He constructs an absolutely beautiful Tactician+Coppersmith deck with support from Scheme and Procession that can reliably have huge turns every other turn. He has three Provinces by turn 9 and five by turn 13. He gets some more green, but on his Tactician-fueled turn 18, he's only able to hit $7 (there's that theme again). He builds some more (turns out that's a mistake) and through dumb luck I squeak ahead before he gets another shot to end it. Let this be a lesson to you -- even if you're way behind and your opponent's deck is way better and he's outplaying you, sometimes 2-7 offsuit cracks pocket Aces anyways. Never give up.

While I can blame my luck here (hitting $6 + 1 Highway in a 10-card turn 15, and just missing the sixth and winning province), I did make some mistake... My deck is excellent in getting provinces quickly (5 province in 13 turns), though it would struggle to finish off the game since I basically have no economy (7 copper + 1 silver). I so much rely on the Procession-Coppersmith. With the Coppersmith gone on turn 13, and so many green cards rushing in, I should expect the stall even with the help of Tactician. Maybe a Storeroom could help here. And hey, both of us ignore Storeroom! I think Tactician-Storeroom is pretty solid with Highway as support here.

So... I am disappointed that I lose after constructing a beautiful Procession engine... but it is a great lesson.

Overall some fun and interesting games. Thank you AdamH for the games/video/comments!

In the video I give Storeroom+Tactician a brief mention but I dismiss it because it would be difficult to play many Storerooms in one turn (to get the buys) to go with a bunch of Highways. I didn't think about how they could support a double-tactician deck, especially with Scheme to support. So many opportunities I missed on this board, but I still feel like you outplayed me.

...of course, the videos aren't even halfway done uploading yet, they're taking like 2 hours each because I didn't bother to convert them to WMV before uploading. It'll be better quality but it just takes forEVER to upload.
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2982
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2013, 02:40:48 pm »
0

I posted it a few hours ago: https://getsatisfaction.com/goko/topics/too_few_colony_games_randomized_in_unranked_games. Awaiting bets on wether the'll say it's perfectly normal.
It's "in progress" now.
Logged

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4340
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2013, 03:18:50 pm »
0

Looks like I misread the rules?  I suppose it's a draw, then.
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

Kirian

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2013, 03:28:57 pm »
0

Looks like I misread the rules?  I suppose it's a draw, then.

That's correct.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Stick In The Mud

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: +4
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2013, 05:33:43 pm »
+1

She can't say no beat stick in the mud 3- 2. Log to follow


TD Note: Posted
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 06:38:14 pm by Kirian »
Logged

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2982
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2013, 06:21:36 pm »
0

Watno - yed: 3 - 3 tie
Game 1: yed wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366224726557.txt
Game 2: Watno wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366225699283.txt
Game 3: Watno wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366226710084.txt
Game 4: I disconnect with 1 province left, but since I was far ahead, yed agreed to count this as a win for me.
He also has the log for this one.
Game 5: yed wins
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366229789237.txt
Game 6: yed wins
I forgot to save this log. But the game made me remember why i hate Minion so much.


TD Note: Posted
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 06:38:24 pm by Kirian »
Logged

yed

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 620
  • Shuffle iT Username: yed
  • Respect: +571
    • View Profile
yed vs Watno => draw
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2013, 07:09:34 pm »
+1

yed vs Watno 3-3-0 => draw.

Game 1
University, Develop, Sage, Caravan, Remake, Remodel, Junk Dealer, Fairgrounds, Grand Market, Peddler, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366224726557.txt
My lucky win with a lot of GM and Pedlers.
1-0-0

Game 2
Transmute, Duchess, Apothecary, Oracle, Mining Village, Spy, Band of Misfits, Bazaar, Royal Seal, Nobles, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366225699283.txt
Watno won with Apotherary deck vs my Nobles.
1-1-0

Game 3
Storeroom, Woodcutter, Mining Village, Embassy, Haggler, Horn of Plenty, Knights, Witch, Hoard, Forge, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366226710084.txt
A lot of mistakes on my side... Hoards are probably the bigest. Watno won with HoP megaturn.
1-2-0

Frozen game for both of us in 6th turn. We didn't count that.

Game 4
Transmute, Familiar, Bureaucrat, Farming Village, Spice Merchant, Band of Misfits, Highway, Mine, Torturer, Expand, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366229789237.txt
Close Familiar game... In the end mine Expand worked better than Watno's Transmute. But it could have easily gone other way.
2-2-0

Game 5
Lighthouse, Pawn, Chancellor, Steward, Warehouse, Spice Merchant, Festival, Ill-Gotten Gains, Expand, King's Court, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366231159962.txt
IGG... Steward buy was probably mistake on my side. In the end mine Expands was not good enough.... Watnos IGG and Warehouses easily generated 4 provinces and 3 Duchies.... vs mine 3 Provinces and 1 Duchy. Then it froze on Watno's side... but we counted that as his won since I had only theoretical chance at winning.
2-3-0

Since Watno started first game we played 6th game.

Game 6
Fishing Village, Tunnel, Village, Island, Militia, Thief, Worker's Village, Ill-Gotten Gains, Minion, Mystic, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1366232154762.txt
Minion Tunnel vs pure IGG. As I almost always hate IGG games, I liked this one.
3-3-0

Watno, thank you for playing! I had fun.
Logged

Avin

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +99
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2013, 09:28:38 pm »
0

Avin vs andwilk 4-2-0 => Avin wins

Game 1:
Tunnel, Baron, Island, Scout, Thief, Bandit Camp, Ill-Gotten Gains, Trading Post, Tribute, King's Court, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1366243951760.txt
My comment: Pretty much dominated by IGG
1-0-0

Game 2:
Haven, Vagrant, Farming Village, Nomad Camp, Talisman, Golem, Counting House, Graverobber, Venture, King's Court, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Colony, Platinum, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50804653fca2b99a1806c3c1.1366244565727.txt
My comment: I've never seen Havens used so strongly. Nice work. I missed a buy once where I bought a third Platinum instead of a colony, and had I had that colony I would have bought the penultimate colony as well ... not sure if it would have made the difference but I was definitely regretting my decision.
1-1-0

Game 3:
Pawn, Alchemist, Rats, Market, Merchant Ship, Rabble, Torturer, Wharf, Adventurer, Harem, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1366244935938.txt
My comment: I thought for sure I'd be able to pull off a double province buy to offset my investment in alchemists, but it never came together and I was too slow.
1-2-0

Game 4:
Moat, Develop, Oasis, Oracle, Village, Warehouse, Alchemist, Remake, Explorer, Mine, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50804653fca2b99a1806c3c1.1366245311594.txt
My comment: I think the biggest difference in our games was I started with a silver instead of a warehouse, which allowed me money sooner (in particular I bought a Mine mostly so I could remake it into a Gold shortly afterward, and use it a couple times until it coincided with the remake)
2-2-0

Game 5:
Beggar, Duchess, Pearl Diver, Scheme, Ironworks, Quarry, Bandit Camp, Cache, Minion, Possession, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1366246156289.txt
My comment: I was afraid you would win the Minion split early on. But my extra Bandit Camps allowed me to get more spoils faster for the late game province buying power.
3-2-0

I had played first on Game 1 so we played a 6th game.

Game 6:
Herbalist, Apothecary, Swindler, Farming Village, Moneylender, Salvager, Apprentice, Jester, Stables, Hoard, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Potion
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50804653fca2b99a1806c3c1.1366247114845.txt
My comment: My first swindler hit copper, yours hit estate. In fact you never hit copper at all (probably didn't help that I opened Moneylender with the clearly better 4/3 opening). So I think luck heavily favored me this game.
4-2-0

Thanks for the games!
Logged

Avin

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +99
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2013, 09:40:44 pm »
0

As a side note, is there any way to get Goko to create a game with the previously played card set?

We actually only had to restart one game, the last one, due to incorrect turn order, but that game had looked like a blast. We briefly considered restarting with the same set but I realized the only way I knew of to do that would be to go into the Deckbuilder, find all the cards manually (and despite knowing which Box expansion each of the cards comes from, I still don't know which Goko half-expansion they are all in) and save the set, then use it. So I just rerandomized.
Logged

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2013, 09:54:25 pm »
0

No, there's no way of replaying the same set.


One thing which I did find is the bar in the top left corner, you can start typing the name of a card there to find it so you don't have to remember what set it's in.
Logged

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: GOKODOM I: Round 1 Results and Discussion
« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2013, 06:17:27 am »
+1

She can't say no beat stick in the mud 3- 2. Log to follow
Here they are, together with some thoughts.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130416/log.50ce244fe4b0e91495e0f605.1366144464608.txt
Oasis, JackOfAllTrades, Remake, Sea Hag, Talisman, Counting House, Embassy, Mine, Farmland, Peddler, Colony, Platinum

No villages or +buy, so the only engine I see is Remake/Oasis/Talisman into Peddlers, which seems way too slow and unreliable, especially for a Colony game. On the other hand there's Embassy as a BM supporter, which is pretty good, so that's what I decide to go for. He opens Oasis/Jack, ignoring the Sea Hag, which I get together with a Silver. Maybe it should have been Silver/Silver though, with him buying Jack and this villageless board. Het gets a second Jack on turn 3, which I think is a big mistake because you don't want to flood your deck with Silvers in a Colony game. My Gold and Embassy on turn 3 and 6 allow me to buy a Platinum on turn 7, a second Embassy on turn 8 and another Platinum on turn 9. He's struggling with his economy and buys his first Colony only just before I buy my third one. I buy my 6th and final Colony in turn 20 for a 64-32 win.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130416/log.50ce244fe4b0e91495e0f605.1366145156103.txt
Hamlet, Herbalist, Lighthouse, Secret Chamber, Ambassador, Shanty Town, Ironworks, Scavenger, Contraband, Mandarin

This game I completely messed up. I intended to build an engine with Hamlet/Shanty Town/Mandarin (which isn't too great to begin with bc of the weak draw) and Ambassador for "trashing", but I got lost in the early game mess and started gaining Silvers with Ironworks, which wasn't really part of the plan. While he opened Lighthouse instead of Ambassador (getting an Amb only on turn 9), which I think is a clear mistake, he had much better focus for the rest of the game, buying a bunch of Golds and Provinces for a deserved 34-35 win when I stupidly buy the last Province.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130416/log.50ce244fe4b0e91495e0f605.1366145637655.txt
Fishing Village, Coppersmith, Ironworks, Spice Merchant, Trader, Ghost Ship, Harvest, Wharf, Adventurer, Nobles

I see Fishing Village and Wharf and dismiss everything else after a quick glance. He opens Ironworks, which I don't like because you don't need that many Fishing Villages or Silvers. I opened Fishing Village/Silver for a Wharf on turn 3 while he gets a Wharf only on turn 5. I keep spamming Wharfs, while he gets a Gold on turn 9 and buys a Province the next turn with $10, 3 buys and 2 Wharfs left in the supply. I'm happy to grab them next turn, winning the Wharf split 7-3. While he has 2 Provinces when I buy my first Province and Gold, I have the better deck so I like my chances in the end-game. He broke PPR on turn 14 which enabled me to end the game in my favor: 38-33.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50ce244fe4b0e91495e0f605.1366231944071.txt
Moat, Alchemist, Cutpurse, Fortress, Talisman, Hunting Party, Junk Dealer, Market, Mystic, Witch

He opens cutpurse/silver, which I don't know what to think of. On the one hand it can work out great to deny me a Witch on turn 3 or 4, but on the other hand you can be almost certain that it will collide with or be drawn dead by your future Witches, in which case you'd much prefer a silver. I open silver/silver. He cutpurses my $3 hand into $2 while buying a Witch, I buy an Estate to trash Hovel, but should probably have bought a Moat. He gets a second Witch on turn 4 while I get my first one, his Witches don't collide during the next shuffle, I buy a second Witch after he buys his first gold, but my Witches do collide the next hand, and the game is basically over. I get my first gold only after he gets his 4th, I lose the curse split 4-6, and he books a comfortable win (26-45).

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130417/log.50ce244fe4b0e91495e0f605.1366233294777.txt
Lookout, Quarry, Rats, Throne Room, Golem, Inn, Market, Tribute, Goons, Grand Market

I want to build a Golem/Goons/Grand Market/Throne Room engine, so I open Lookout/Quarry. I get a potion on turn 3 which was probably too early. I end up with 2 Golems in my deck before I can buy a Goons on turn 10, the same turn I trashed the Potion to save a Golem and Silver, which I should have kept because the Golems were finally becoming useful. My opponent seems to be going for an engine with TR/Market/Inn/Goons/GM, which starts running well when he suddenly buys a Province which I think should have been two Goons. He keeps buying Provinces while I don't intend to buy any and instead go for a big Goons turn and a three-pile ending (which happen on turn 20 and 22, respectively). I win 61-34, but am curious how it would have turned out had he not gone for Provinces. It would have ended on piles earlier, possibly with him ahead.

I enjoyed the games, thanks for playing Stick!
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.192 seconds with 21 queries.