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[Jeebus]

I made a previous post about rewording all Dominion cards so they're non-ambiguous and complete, like program instructions.

I've now defined a set of symbols/icons to cover pretty much everything the cards make you do. So: Dominicon. As you can imagine it's quite a lot and doesn't exactly make the game easier to play. But the cards are kind of pretty, except when they get too cluttered, which they quickly do. So far I've only finished the 25 cards from the base game. I've also made an eight page rulebook, of which more than five pages cover the symbols.

Here's the rulebook in PDF (690 KB)  (It's missing most of the special symbols on page 5-6 because I'll make those when (if) I get to those cards.)

I especially like the Witch since it has an apple, a basket and a skull on it. Other cards have those symbols too, but it was especially fitting here.



I'll post the other cards below.

[Jeebus]

                                                                                           

[Schneau]

This makes me very glad that they didn't try to do Dominion in symbols for easier translation.

[DG]

I think we should ask some ancient egyptians to decipher your cards.

[Qvist]

I knew I've seen this before

[werothegreat]

You don't have a Shelters type.

[Jeebus]

You don't have a Shelters type.

Right, I don't have symbols for Prize, Knight or Shelter. Those are only needed once each. (Only one card refers to each of those types.) So I figured I'd just write the words in the light blue box, signifying card types. I was trying to keep the symbol count down. I also only have symbols for six card names (the obvious ones). The rest I will write in the dark blue box, signifying card names.

Edit: I just realize I don't actually need symbols for Reaction and Duration at all. Oh well.

[popsofctown]

Symbols works ok in Puzzle Strike, just aesthetically.  Of course, making a symbol for EVERYTHING isn't what you want to do, just a few things

[florrat]

I like the project!

Some comments:
-Cellar discarding should not be optional (you can pick no cards if you want)

-Can't the feast 2nd and 3rd play-events be shortened to 1 event? Something like: "Gain" "from supply" "choose card(s)" "1" "costing 0~5" (similar to chapel and cellar, but then just one card, as used in bureaucrat). Same for mine, remodel, workshop

-I'm not sure if the library is correct at the moment. You should put the card you looked at in your hand if either
*it is not an action card;
*it is an action card you did not set aside.
How does one know the "else"-symbol (N in triangle) refers to both these events?

-I'm not sure if spy is correct, and I think thief is wrong. How do you distinguish in an attack between choices you make and choices the attacked player makes?
So who chooses 1 in spy?
And for thief, in the description of the "choose"-icon you write "but if the activity is done by a player instead of you, he chooses", which is not the case for thief.

-is the "[play as] the same card each time" just for Band of Misfits?

Looking forward to see more of these! :-)

[ahyangyi]

Can't imagine what Possesion will look like.
Perhaps Band of Misfits would a bit easier?

[Kirian]

I made a previous post about rewording all Dominion cards so they're non-ambiguous and complete, like program instructions.

I've now defined a set of symbols/icons to cover pretty much everything the cards make you do. So: Dominicon. As you can imagine it's quite a lot and doesn't exactly make the game easier to play. But the cards are kind of pretty, except when they get too cluttered, which they quickly do. So far I've only finished the 25 cards from the base game. I've also made an eight page rulebook, of which more than five pages cover the symbols.

Here's the rulebook in PDF (690 KB)  (It's missing most of the special symbols on page 5-6 because I'll make those when (if) I get to those cards.)

I especially like the Witch since it has an apple, a basket and a skull on it. Other cards have those symbols too, but it was especially fitting here.



I'll post the other cards below.

While I like the general idea, this appears to read:

Action/Attack: Worth two apples; all other players put a Curse in their basket of apples.

Seriously.  The apples thing makes no damn sense.  Why not a picture of a card for draw a card, a card on its side for discard, a card with an X for trash, etc?

[qmech]

When somebody made their own chip version of Dominion, they came up with symbols for the vanilla benefits.

[Qvist]

Yeah, let's be more constructive. I agree with Kirian. I like the general idea, too. But this is overcomplicating.
When things come up on 90% of the cards, just let it out and find an icon if there's an exception to the rule. That makes things much easier.
The Lightning on the flag for "when you play this" for example is really not necessary, for example. Just point out if there are effects that take place on other times.

I also agree with the basket/apple thing. This makes really no sense. Just use cards. The scroll for actions also seems weird.
The iconography really seems overcomplicated. There is also no need for a "1". Just add a number if it's more than two or use more of the same icons respectively.

Let's take Remodel. Why not use:

Trash Icon / Card Icon
Gain Icon / Cost Icon $0 - $ Trashed Card Icon +2

The differentiation between Choose and Gain is unnecessary here because it's the same on 99% of the cards.

[Eevee]

I've played the chip version IRL. It actually worked quite fine!

[Jeebus]

Some comments:
-Cellar discarding should not be optional (you can pick no cards if you want)

Thanks for your feedback!
Re: Cellar. The problem is the definition of "any" (the pointing hand in a white box). It says "any (card(s) you choose)". The point is that you choose any card or cards, but it's not apparent in that sentence that you can choose zero. Often a number is given in the white box, which tells you how many you have to choose, like on Remodel. So it was awkward wording this. For Cellar I could have put "0~" on the card. But instead I chose to use "may". Discarding zero is the same as not discarding at all.

EDIT 2015-04-17: I'm looking at these cards again and I decided to change Cellar. In the new rule book I will define "any" (the purple pointing hand) as "any cards you choose including zero". This was done to make Forge clearer. I've also changed Secret Chamber and Thief accordingly.

-Can't the feast 2nd and 3rd play-events be shortened to 1 event? Something like: "Gain" "from supply" "choose card(s)" "1" "costing 0~5" (similar to chapel and cellar, but then just one card, as used in bureaucrat). Same for mine, remodel, workshop

Maybe. I chose to have all gaining that involves choosing be two separate events. The reason was that there have been many questions regarding timing in the forums, where people have different opinions on how it works based on whether choosing comes first as a separate step. In Dominion it always does, so I thought the cards should reflect that.

-I'm not sure if the library is correct at the moment. You should put the card you looked at in your hand if either
*it is not an action card;
*it is an action card you did not set aside.
How does one know the "else"-symbol (N in triangle) refers to both these events?

It always refers to the immediately preceding event. So "if you didn't set-aside the looked-at card..."
This is true both if it wasn't an Action card, and if it was but you chose to not set it aside.

-I'm not sure if spy is correct, and I think thief is wrong. How do you distinguish in an attack between choices you make and choices the attacked player makes?
So who chooses 1 in spy?

This is a good point. The meaning is that all events not immediately preceded by the white player icon, are done by "you". That includes the "choose one" icon. But I see that the rulebook does not specifically say this. It only talks about the "activities" (white circles) and the white player icon. I need to make this clearer.

And for thief, in the description of the "choose"-icon you write "but if the activity is done by a player instead of you, he chooses", which is not the case for thief.

No, you're mixing up a "card" with an "activity", which isn't so strange because I used the same symbol, only in different shapes. I'm thinking that this probably wasn't a good idea.
All white rectangles describe card or cards. The white circles preceding them is the activity to do. So the pointing hand in a circle means "Choose" (see page 1). The pointing hand in a rectangle means "any card(s)" - which also involves you choosing (see page 2). Anyway, here it's the activity "choose", and it's not preceded by the white player icon, so "you" do it. (While on Militia the discard icon is preceded by a white player icon, so the activity (discarding) is not be done by you, but by "the player". The pointing hand in the rectangle lets that player choose which card to discard.)

-is the "[play as] the same card each time" just for Band of Misfits?

Ding! Correct!

Looking forward to see more of these! :-)

Thanks. We'll see how many I get done.

[Jeebus]

Yeah, let's be more constructive. I agree with Kirian. I like the general idea, too. But this is overcomplicating.
When things come up on 90% of the cards, just let it out and find an icon if there's an exception to the rule. That makes things much easier.
The Lightning on the flag for "when you play this" for example is really not necessary, for example. Just point out if there are effects that take place on other times.

I also agree with the basket/apple thing. This makes really no sense. Just use cards. The scroll for actions also seems weird.
The iconography really seems overcomplicated. There is also no need for a "1". Just add a number if it's more than two or use more of the same icons respectively.

Let's take Remodel. Why not use:

Trash Icon / Card Icon
Gain Icon / Cost Icon $0 - $ Trashed Card Icon +2

The differentiation between Choose and Gain is unnecessary here because it's the same on 99% of the cards.

This started as the other project I mentioned in the OP, where I made every card say exactly what was happening, including defining all triggered events. And most events are triggered when you play the card. But yes, I probably should have skipped the flag/lightning and just said that "no symbol" means "when you play This". On the other hand I don't like "no symbol" having a meaning! It goes against everything else here. Everything happening is included, nothing is left out because it's the "default". That's why the rulebook is actually short (except for all the symbols of course). Well, things happening in player order is left out of the cards, and stuff like that...

Apple and basket. I agree they don't make sense thematically. The scroll is brilliant though. It's a decree! Think of the theme of Throne Room, King's Court, Golem... Makes perfect sense. Anyway, I needed symbols for play, gain, discard, supply, play area, deck, discard pile, aside, face-up, face-down. I'm sure I could've done better, but they can't all be cards twisted in different shapes! Since deck, discard, draw, gain and supply are used so often, I thought it could work well having distinct symbols for these, even if they don't fit thematically. Deck is apple, discard pile is apple core. Draw and discard follow these. Then supply is a tree, gain is a basket. Supply pile is a leaf.

Your Remodel example doesn't say how many cards you trash, or where they are. If I omitted the "1" there it would mean "any cards", like on Cellar. So I would instead need a specific symbol for "any cards" which could not be used when the number of cards is set. But I wanted to have a symbol saying that "you choose any cards" (the pointing hand) to specifically say that choosing is what happens. The FAQs usually say this, but these cards shouldn't need the FAQs. They should always have the same symbol if the same thing is happening, even though in the text version it's very clear sometimes and unclear other times. I would also need a rule in the rulebook saying that "no number" means "1", but I think the end result would be confusion. There's a lot of different card texts for these symbols to cover. (However I have defined the activities choose, play, gain and buy as always meaning "1 card".)

Lastly, yes. It's overcomplicating. Let's just call it "my overcomplicating project", because that's what it is. But I aim to make it accurate.

[Qvist]

Lastly, yes. It's overcomplicating. Let's just call it "my overcomplicating project", because that's what it is. But I aim to make it accurate.

The whole point was a little bit different. I like your other project because it's great to have clarification if you have a correct wording to avoid confusion.
I was saying that you have to choose icons that makes it clearer. If 90% is implicit because this is basic rules, I just would let it out.

To make it clear and overaggerate it more: There is no need to make icons for "Put your hand on the top card of your hand" and "move that card that you hold in your hand to your hand" because that's simply +1 Card or +1 Apple or whatever. Gaining is implicit in your discard, there is no need to add the destination although it is basically necessary to make it clear. But it's defined in the basic rules, so you can leave it out.

So, I would define icons that make it still clear, but still keep it short and simple. I'm not saying that it's easy, but I guess it's possible.

Therefore one suggestion was to let the number "1" out and instead add "X" for any, for example, I guess that makes it more intuitive and shorter on average.

Regarding the Remodel example:
"Trash Icon / Card Icon" is clear, but still correct, IMO. I explain why. "1" is implicit as suggested because otherwise you would need to add "1" to trash too, because it would otherwise mean trash any number of times. You see that your current form is at least not coherent. The trash icon means "Trash from your hand unless otherwise stated". If you trash from your discard pile (like Hermit) just use "Trash Icon (Discard pile)". The number of cards which don't trash from your hand are so minimal that this is unnecessary IMO. And if the trash icon (without other icons near it) is implicitly defined as "trash from your hand" I can't see a problem. The same goes for the Card icon obviously. It's implicit one card and unless otherwise stated from your hand.

Whatever, I just liked to give you feedback what I would improve. It's your project and it's interesting to watch. I really like to see more. Keep 'em up.

[Jeebus]

Regarding the Remodel example:
"Trash Icon / Card Icon" is clear, but still correct, IMO. I explain why. "1" is implicit as suggested because otherwise you would need to add "1" to trash too, because it would otherwise mean trash any number of times. You see that your current form is at least not coherent. The trash icon means "Trash from your hand unless otherwise stated". If you trash from your discard pile (like Hermit) just use "Trash Icon (Discard pile)". The number of cards which don't trash from your hand are so minimal that this is unnecessary IMO. And if the trash icon (without other icons near it) is implicitly defined as "trash from your hand" I can't see a problem. The same goes for the Card icon obviously. It's implicit one card and unless otherwise stated from your hand.

Whatever, I just liked to give you feedback what I would improve. It's your project and it's interesting to watch. I really like to see more. Keep 'em up.

And I do appreciate the feedback. Thank you. I suspect the "optimal" way of doing it is somewhere between what you're saying and what I'm doing. As I said I'm pretty much translating my other list into symbols, that was the main idea. But it might have been better looking at it from scratch, defining more things as default in order to make the cards clearer and less cluttered.

So yes, trashing and discarding is per default from your hand, so that could be left out in theory.

"Trash" as an activity is defined as "trash the card(s) stated". Like all activities it's done once. But you can trash several cards at once in Dominion so need to somehow indicate how many. It's coherent since it's defined as such in the rulebook. Only when a thing can be several (like when it says "card(s)") is the number given on the card. I think the main thing here is that you suggest using a "1 card" icon, and writing "2" or "3" or "X" if it's more than one. But I don't actually use a card icon at all. See Spy and Thief for instance. I only use it when I refer to "the card(s) that were revealed" etc. But that can mean one or several, and is just a description of the cards. The white rectangle itself actually means "card(s)". So what you're suggesting is actually substituting all my 1's with a new symbol, and even adding a new symbol in front of my 2's etc. That would take more space, and I honestly don't think it would be clearer.

[Jeebus]

I made a couple of changes in the rulebook.
- A new entry under Constructions explaining about "you" vs. "the player" doing something.
- Changed the color of the "any" symbol (pointing hand) under Cards, to distinguish it from the "choose" activity. This is also reflected in the cards, some of which have been updated.

EDIT: Mistake on Spy corrected. Was missing scepter symbol.

[NoMoreFun]

You'll need a symbol for the card "Potion" for Apothecary and Alchemist.

[Jeebus]

You'll need a symbol for the card "Potion" for Apothecary and Alchemist.

As I mentioned I don't have a symbol for every card name and type, because that wasn't the point. Originally I didn't intend to do any, not even Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy or Province. But then I decided to do those, and the most common card types, since they show up on a lot of cards. Below is a list of the things I don't have a symbol for. Maybe I'll make one for Knight, since ten cards reference that type.

Vagrant: Shelter
<all ten Knights>: Knight
Apothecary, Alchemist: Potion
Tournament: Prize, Prize pile
Hermit, Madman: Madman, Madman pile
Urchin: Mercenary, Mercenary pile
Marauder, Bandit Camp, Pillage, Spoils: Spoils, Spoils pile
Card's that reference their own name: Treasure Map, Crossroads, Duchess, Fool's Gold, Rats, Golem
Embargo: Embargo token
Pirate Ship, Trade Route: Coin token

[Jeebus]

For completeness and consistency, here are the base cards. I know they're worse than the original ones in every way, but making the icons different for just these cards wouldn't really make things clearer, nor something I want to spend time on.

                       

[Jeebus]

And here are all the Intrigue cards:

                                                                                               

[toaster]

I agree with others that the apple icon is unnecessarily confusing, a card icon would work better.  For actions, I think an 'A' inside a circle would be be much easier to remember for any language where the equivalent of 'Action' starts with 'A'.  Since some cards already use letters, it doesn't seem like that's a design constraint for you.

[Davio]

Oh my, this doesn't make the cards more readable, but I'm not sure whether it's the current icons or any icons.

I once tried to make some sort of simulator, separating as much as I could for the play as a single card for a single player. Smithy only needs to know how to add cards from a single player's draw deck (shuffling if need be) and how to add them to a hand.

This works well enough for Vanilla cards, but pretty soon it was like: "Hey card, here's the entire gamestate, just do whatever you want."