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teasel

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Echoes Guide
« on: April 10, 2013, 09:49:46 am »
+1

allright,i think i've got enough experience with echoes that i feel confident enough to write some lines about it,i hope this will make more player try echoes...

Basic

1) echoes game feature five new special achievement,of those four are gotten through board expansion,echoes also feature new effect that get added to the effect of your top card when the echoes card is in the same pile and the echo symbol of that card is shown... these two things combined make board expansion and card that can tuck or meld massive amount of cards very important in echoes games

2) when you have an echoes card in hand,you can't draw more echoes card in hand... card that drew and meld therefore gains a new significance as they are the only one who are fast enough to search for specific echoes card as normal drawing is just too slow,card that let you discard and draw or score from your hand and draw also help

3) echoes card usualy tend to have less symbols overall than base card,especialy annoying are card that come with both a bonus AND an echo effect... echoes effect also tend to be more  outlandish... so the moral of the story is do not forget about base card only because there are new spiffy card to draw

4) be wary of opponent who can't score,even if you can't score you can always meld a card with a bonus and then claim an achievement with the score given by that

5) splaying left isn't usualy considered a good idea in base game but in echoes,there are a lot of nice echo effect that are on the right side of the card and therefore show up only when the pile is splayed left or up
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 10:21:54 am by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 09:49:55 am »
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Age 1

early echoes card don't tend to have great effect with some exception,but they make up for it by having very usefull echo effect,2 of these card (bell and flute) not only make for a pretty nice combo when put together but can also instantly win you the game if you draw a specific age 7 card,noodles it's also an amazing scorer given the right situation,if you use card like sailing and domestication they can help with pulling card from the echoes deck, just remember that each echoes card you draw is a card from the base deck that isn't getting draw which can delay an eventual jump to age 2

Scoring

Umbrella - Echo:Left/Up - Umbrella is sort of like a weaker Perspective... if you have a big hand full of age 4-5 card then it can be worth to give up some of them to score the remaining one,unfortunately by the time that happens Umbrella has probably been overmelded already making the card main effect useless most of the time,the echo effect is more helpfull and combine nicely with the wheel/paper giving you an effect similiar to mysticism but more controlled,it's also easy to get with just a use of code of laws,flute,philosophy or paper

Noodles - Noodles is one of the power bomb of the age 1 echoes card,drawing and scoring is huuuuuuuuuuge and many Noodles game often end up with both players drawing the whole age 1 deck just so that the other one doesn't get to use it... Noodles has a lot of weakness though,not only you have to be carefull of card that destroy castle card like the usual engineering/gunpowder but card that attack your hand like machinery are going to screw you up too,if your opponent also starts with the wheel chance are he'll easily catch up in 1 before you can do much,still when it works it's an amazing card,it's also a decent card to share as you draw two 1 to your opponent single 1

Plumbing - Echo:Right - plumbing is eh... it's a worthless card early in the game,it comes with only 1 icon and the effect is basicaly impossible to use at the start of the game (although if you share it you can force your opponent to unsplay a pile like the aforementioned the wheel/umbrella combo). Later in the game,if you get to splay your red pile and tuck some high age cards (like say... with industrialization,since it does both) then it's echo effect can be a decent scorer

Bell - Echo:Left/Up - Bell ability to foreshadow an age 2 card is frankly quite useless and in all my game i've never seen it used (although of course foreshadowing 2 means a chance of getting fermentation/math first and it also helps a lot with abusing a certain age 4 card) the echo effect let you score a card from your hand,while not really worthwhile alone,it's an amazing effect when combined with purple card that draws,Novel + Bell for example is an amazing combo (coincidentaly novel can also splay your card left)

Drawing

Comb - Comb let you choose a color, draw 4 card and then keep all the card of chosen color... so what's the best color to call? well if the game just started,then it's just a matter of personal preference but as far as i'm concerned green is the best option since all the green base card are gold,if you use comb later in the game then the best thing to do is watch the board and try to predict which color are still in the deck,if your opponent has already played three age 1 blue card then there is no reason to call blue anymore for example... while comb can find a decent card by itself i'm not a big fan of it,very few things feels as demoralizing as using comb and finding no card of the chosen color

Board Building

Dice - Dice is okay but not great,if you are going to draw an echoes card then drawing a card with Dice is a better alternative than just using a draw action,then after drawing with dice you roughly have a chance of 35% at melding a 1,a 14% chance of melding a 2 and a 7% chance of drawing a 3... the chance of teching up is pretty low (in fact i've seen the jump to 3 only once) so most of the time it just end up being a more restricted version of mysticism as you are forced to get rid of the echoes card in your hand before being able to use it again

Bangle - Echoes: Up - Bangle is the Oars of echoes,in fact it might be even worse,foreshadowing a 3 isn't that great (although the echoes age 3 deck has a lot of really good cards so i guess if you aren't in a rush of doing other stuff it can be still worth a shot) and tucking a red card is pointless at the start of the game... of course later the effect can be helpfull but the echo effect only show up when the red pile is splayed up,that's it you won't see it before Age 8,Age 7 at best and by that time you probably don't need to tuck a red card anymore,the effect isn't even optional so you might even be forced to tuck something you didn't want to tuck in the first place (although that can come help once in a blue moon into screwing with an opponent plan)

Tech Up

Perfume - Echoes:Right - the demand of Perfume is pretty simple "if you tech up,i'm catching up with you" and it's utterly annoying! you can usualy stop perfume by giving your opponent a blue card but of course most blue card itself are tech up card so you might end up giving your opponent more tech advantage... one nice trick you can do is to make the demand when the only age you can steal has it's own deck empty,then your opponent will be forced to meld a card from the next age,which you can then steal again with perfume! the echo effect is the first of many "tuck a X" these are nice as they give you a chance at extra echo effect or just more symbols but not really that great,the fact that you won't see the effect before age 4 also diminuish it's value

Ruler - Echoes:Left - Ruler is basicaly Writing but with an echo effect instead of a crown symbol,the tradeoff is pretty good and the echo effect is easy to get since a lot of the early card can splay the blue pile left including paper,drawing card with echo effect can be a double-edged sword,while more card in your hand translate into more option and more scoring when it comes to stuff like lighting/currency and the like,drawing a card can also means drawing an echoes card and being forced to interact with base card for the rest of the effect... for example if your blue pile consist of ruler + atomic theory then you automaticaly give up melding age 7 echoes card (which include some really big powerbomb) as you are forced to draw an echoes card before the meld happen,one nice thing about these sort of effect is that if you share a "may" effect then your opponent is forced to give you a free card as he's forced to draw a card and therefore giving you the free draw action,in fact shared ruler + math is a quite annoying way to quickly tech up

Ice Skates - Ice Skates isn't as powerfull as Noodles but it's still interessing enough to be put into the "notable card" list,basicaly you give up two or three cards and then keep the best 2 you pulled off your hat getting a tech up,or you give up three cards and foreshadow three 3,thus being three times as better than that stupid Bangle,returning your highest top card is a penality (mostly there so you don't just return a single card) but it can be used to your favor,if your math get covered then ice skates can remove the obstruction,and if your opponent has more crown than you but no card in hand you can share the effect and he'll be forced to return a card from his board without any positive effect at all

Candles - Echoes:Right - teching up to age 3 is nice but it only happens when you are losing,the other effect is basicaly fedaulism and nobody ever use that (although i guess since candles is an age 1 card it can at least steal opponent tech),the echo effect is worse than other draw card echo effect in that it requires a condition and it can screws up industrialization for the same reason i explained above with ruler,overall i don't like this card at all

Splaying

Flute - Echoes:Left/Up - Flute is an all around good card,it splays one of your pile,gives you a chance at discarding a card from your opponent hand and draw you between 1 and 2 card,now the non echo effect are nice and all but the real kicker here is the echo effect,all you need to do is use flute effect on the purple pile itself and presto! you can now overmeld flute and get to splay your other pile without trouble,mysticism is especialy nice for this as it melds the card required to make a splayable pile

Special

Puppet - you score 1-2 point with metalworking and/or clothing and/or other bonus then you play puppet and achieve 1 before your opponent achieve it first OR you draw it with dice and tech up to age 3... occasionaly it's a nice card to feed at card that cares at bonus value (like watermill for example) but otherwise it's mostly useless

Chopstick - Echoes: Left/Up - Chopstick is the first of the many new cards that let you make an achievement avaiable again,this one makes 1 avaiable,1 are special in that being the age with the lowest score requirement they are also the easier one to achieve multiple time... that's it,if you can achieve 4,then you can also achieve 1 four times,unfortunately while the card has a lot of potential by the time you have the score to abuse it,the age 1 pile is probably empty (although it can always be replenished by returning 1 in your opponent score pile or in your hand with pottery for example) the echo effect also force you to draw a 1 which means the deck requires at least 2 card in it before you can make use out of it... still when it works it gives you free achievement and those are great,chopsticks echo draw you a 1 and yadda,yadda,everything that had to be said about drawing card with echoes effect has already been said... oh yeah it combo's nicely with domestication as it gives you more control over it

Soap - like Chopsticks,Soap handles you free achievement,Soap is easier to use as it's not dependant on your opponent action and can be used to achieve any age as opposed to just 1 but it's still tricky to use,soap like both having a big hand and a big score,so for example something like the paper/perspective combo (though of course you'd need to hold soap in your hand as both perspective and soap are yellow) is a nice supplement to soap,occasionaly you don't care about the second effect and just want the first one as being able to tuck 3-4 card from your hand is a pretty big effect anyway,just ask reformation
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:40:46 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:01 am »
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Age 2

age 2 is mostly host of a bunch of decent but not amazing card,all of the good card like watermill and chaturanga like to use bonus in a way or another so if you still have puppet from age 1,congratulation! he's finaly going to get some action

Scoring

Glassblowing - Echoes: Left/Up - foreshadowing a card is nice when paired with another action but usualy not worthwhile when it's the only action you are taking (that's it unless you are foreshadowing card from the same age you are in,then it's not much different from actual drawing and it might save you actions) so what's the other action you get to take? you score a card with a bonus from your hand... that's nice in that it rids you of your echoes card in your hand so that you can draw another one but otherwise bell does the same and it's without limitation so it's a little disappointing,at least the echo effect is easy to get. if you don't have any 1 on board you might still consider using glassblowing as echoes age 5 has some pretty amazing card too

Scissor - Echoes: Right - Scissor echo effect take a card buried somewhere on your board and gives it back to you,this can be a good effect especialy if you are into tucking but this early in the game the chance of this being worthwhile is praticaly null and so the echo effect end's up being more bothersome than anything else as it ruins your splay and eat at your icon,then you get to either meld two card,score two card or meld one card and score one... all of this are decent but not really amazing either,as a last added effect you get to ruin paper... that's actualy decent in that paper is a highly annoying card that can give huge advantage especialy now that flute is a thing but it's also a pretty situational effect,the paper ruining effect also work if you don't have the castle lead but in that case it will be your opponent which will score it's own paper so consider that... the echo effect comes midway trough the game and as i said it can help getting you back a certain card but most of the time you are just punching yourself in the face,to make matter worse scissor can lose you the game later if your opponent ever get and use rock (age 9) as that's one of the new instant victory condition's introduced with echoes so overall i don't like it

Crossbow - it's a oars that target only one card in my hand,i can't seriously think of a worse idea,i guess at best it can stop chaturanga abuse or it can feed watermill/chaturanga so you get to jump to age 3

Board Building

Watermill - Watermill is quite a good card,you feed it a card with a bonus and then it usualy ends up tucking you 2-3 card and giving you the occasional tech up,once in a blue moon it will heavily tech you up making you jump from age 2 to age 7 in a single swoop,then all the card you tucked all counts toward powering up crossword (age 8 ) sudoku (age 10) and giving you a chance at the wealth achievement

Chaturanga - Chaturanga is sort of like watermill in that it feeds on cards with bonus only instead of tucking them,it melds them and then you draw 2 card,depending on the bonus those 2 card can be of higher age so basicaly it melds,draw and tech you up making for an all amazing combination,best of all one of the card you draw is bound to have a bonus letting you repeat the whole thing multiple times! if you don't have any card with a bonus it instead foreshadow a card based on how many color you have... i'm not a fan of just foreshadowing but as i said many times,age 3 is truly where all the echoes magic happens so if you only have 3 color you might want to consider that

Pagoda - i'll be frank,i've never got to use Pagoda in any of my games so this is all speculation,but basicaly... the more card you have,the more chance you tech/board up so i guess it would combine well with something like the wheel or if you keeped around multiple colored card from age 1

Toothbrush - Echoes: Right/Up - Toothbrush splay your card left therefore joining the team made by flute/philosophy and the other,that's a decent effect but the real prize comes with the other two one,the first effect is that it makes a 2 avaiable as an achievement again,this is not as good as chopsticks as 2 are harder to achieve (with 20 you can score two 2 but four 1) but it's still low enough that you can achieve it twice or thrice,the 2 deck also tend's to be less ravaged than 1 even tough it's still possible that it ends up empty
the last effect (it's echo effect) let you tuck all card of a single value and if you draw a huge amount of card that have all the same value with the wheel/reformation then this can be a nice way to build your board overall,as an echo effect i don't like it much for a single reason,there is no "may" before the effect,if you trigger your yellow pile and are saving a bunch of 6 you drew with physics then you are forced to tuck them all as soon as you trigger your yellow pile which kinda sucks

Tech Up

Lever - Echoes: Up - Lever is basicaly alternate math,where math discard one card,lever discard two,where math meld the new card,lever just put it in your hand... lever is overall slower than math so it's not as good but it's still quite good,as an added bonus with each use of lever you draw two 2 for the echo effect,these 2 can then be instantly traded into a 3 (so actualy if you used lever 3 times you could jump to 4 without taking a stop to 3 where playing a 3,then drawing two more 3 and using lever would take you more actions although you might want to stop at age 3) the echo effect rarely come into play as splaying your blue pile up it's a somewhat hard task and even when it does it just draws you card you probably don't need too much barring some lighting trick

Linguistic - Echoes: Up - well it draws you 2 card,one of those 2 card is of age 3 and therefore it tech you up,unfortunately the only age 3 card with a bonus of 4 is almanac so it's impossible to get to get to age 4 with it,still if linguistic is still there when you get to stuff like clock and lightning rod it's an option for possible tech up... the other alternative is that you draw one card and foreshadow a 4,this can be a decent solution too and it helps with setting up what is the best echoes card in all the game,although there is no real amazing card in the age 4 echoes deck... like with lever the echo effect is good but rarely comes into play,although i must say

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Horseshoes - Echoes: Up - and here comes the first stealing card and... it's surprisingly decent,it can steal a wide array of cards and as castle becomes more and more rare on your opponent board it becomes easier to use,of course the fact that it steals a wide array of card is a double edged sword as your opponent can just give you what he wants but most of the time you should be happy with the trade... the echo effect foreshadows a 2,personaly i love echo effect that foreshadows as they let you draw without actualy drawing therefore letting you draw big amount of echoes card but since it requires the red spile to be splayed up it comes into the game late and it can be hard to get
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 02:37:40 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:07 am »
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Age 3

as i've said many times earlier,age 3 is where all the echoes magic happen,cards in age 3 include almanac (an amazing scorer and easily the best age 3 card) deodorant (which is basicaly super sailing) and novel (super wheel)

Scoring

Almanac - Echoes: Left/Up - Almanac foreshadows a 4 for his echoes effect,then if that 4 has a bonus you get to score it and forecast a 5 or a 6,and if that 5 or 6 has a bonus you get to score it,and foreshadows a 7 or 8 and so on and on and on,if you are lucky you get to foreshadows a card with a bonus of 10 or 11 and WIN THE GAME AT AGE 3,that's how freaking powerfull this card is... even if you don't luck your way up to 10,you still score a truckload of points,as each application of almanac ends giving you between 4 and 6 points (with the occasional 0 when you have no bonus) oh and each step also get you closer to the destiny achievement,almanac like democracy also scores card higher than it's own age,the end result it's that it's totaly possible to have huge tech up with cards like canal building and translation (even though translation also destroy your score) the echoes effect is just the sprinkles on top of the cupcake

Sunglasses - Echoes: Up - well as long as you splay a pile right,then this card becomes metric system and as soon as you splay a pile up,this card becomes flight.. that's pretty nice for an age 3 card but unfortunately it needs some work,the echo effect is basicaly bell with a limitation,nice when used on top of drawing but not that good alone... the limitation is annoying but not that hard to fulfill

Liquid Fire - meh,if you get a usefull card your opponent will put it in your score and if you get a useless card it will go in your forecast,it's rare to find yourself in a situation where both choice screw your opponent so hard that it makes this card usefull,the only good part is that it's red and it comes with 3 lightbulb which makes it an oddity

Drawing

Novel - Echoes: Left/Up - Novel is The Wheel if The Wheel 1) draw you 3 instead of 1 2) drew you card even after being overmelded 3) splayed his own color left 4) occasionaly gave you a free achievement,Novel is awesome and makes for an amazing 1-2 punch if you have Bell tucked under it,even without Bell it still draws you a nice amount of card and of course since it splays itself getting the echoes effect is super easy

Board Building

Deodorant - Echoes: Right/Up - Well if you have a castle this turn into super sailing melding and drawing you 2 cards,that is huge,unfortunately doing so is bound to either cover deodorant or the card with the castle,the alternative of melding a 3 and drawing a 4 is decent too and an improvement over similiar effect so both alternative are actualy pretty good... the echo effect is a mixed bag,while it's a good effect and gives you free icon and echo effect,it risk covering a key card meaningless tough if you are sharing that means your opponent risk doing that too

Sandpaper - Sandpaper has basicaly two use,the first is that it trades your 1 and 2 for 3,this can help with scoring more points when it comes from scoring card from your hand and for searching paper,machinery and education... the other use is to trade your old echoes card that is not almanac for a new spiffy card which is hopefull almanac... otherwise it's a pretty lame card

Tech Up

Magnifying glass - Echoes: Left/Up - the echoes discard a card and draw you a 4,discarding let you get rid of an echoes card you don't want but otherwise it's pretty lame compared to other card that just draw,the effect is basicaly super lever,you discard three card of the same value and you draw one of a value two higher,unfortunately if lever was already sort of slow to abuse,this is incredibly slow,sure if you can get some abuse with stuff that draws you a lot of card like paper then by all means this card can let you do some pretty big jump in tech but otherwise it's pretty hard to use

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Homing Pigeons - Homing Pigeons is the first of many score destroyer echoes card that hits 2 card in the score pile which make them all much better than anatomy ever was,this one requires for you to have a card of the same value of the card you want to kill,it's a pretty easy to fulfill condition as long as your opponent hasn't teched up too much which makes this a decent card,as a bonus it also splays color

Katana - Katana is like engineering in that it destroy and scores card with castle,unlike engineering it also foreshadows card which actualy makes the card better overall

Special

Charitable Trust - Echoes: Right - Charitable Trust draws you a 4 so i tought of putting it into the tech up card,but if you meld that 4 you also get to achieve a green card from your board (usualy Charitable Trust itself) and actualy that's the real effect here,there isn't a lot else to say,by this point splaying right start to become possible,you already know the rest about drawing card from echoes
 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 06:43:54 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:13 am »
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Age 4

age 4 has a few decent card with clock being the best but is otherwise a huge step down from the amazing power of almanac and the novel+bell combo,at least things go up again by the time you reach age 5

Scoring

Chintz - Chintz is in the decent card group,while having an empty hand can be hard (especialy with echoes effect drawing you extra cards) the reward for doing so is scoring a 4 which is actualy a decent reward,as such chintz if you have a way to get rid of extra cards (tuck them with toothbrush for example) can be a good scorer

Tech Up

Slide Rule - Slide rule is sort of hard to use... if you have a lot of piles then chance are that one of them has a 1 on it rendering it useless but if you only have 2 piles splayed at top it only gets a single 5... still when the planet aligns and you have all pile splayed and with a 4 on top of them slide rule draws a 9 making for the biggest jump in tech you have ever done,one cool trick with slide rule,if you share it with an opponent who has the tech lead chance are it will end the game... as such you should be carefull about taking the lightbulb lead against an opponent who has Slide Rule

Barometer - Echoes: Right/Up - Barometer is a pretty sad card,transfering a 5 to your hand isn't bad but most of the time it's probably better if it stays in the forecast,the first time you do it,you do tech up which at least is usefull... the effect is also not optional so once you splay it you might end up with card you didn't want in your hand.
The actual problem is getting the 5 there,option include Chaturanga with all the color played,Glassblowing with no 1 on board,Telescope or Barometer itself when you have a bonus of 3 on your board,because that's what Barometer does,it foreshadows you a card without any other cool added effect which is pretty lame,also it gets you destiny if you have five cards in your forecast... usualy you get destiny with seven cards but surely if you can manage five of them,getting two more is usualy easy so that too is snooze-worthy

Pencil - Echoes:Right - Drawing a 5 doesn't do much but some of the echoes 5 can be pretty powerfull so this is like writing in that it's sort of worthless but could get you a very usefull card,the other effect you get to foreshadow a card,by discarding cards from your hand,the more you discard the more choice you get to pick... if you discard your just new drawn 5,you then get to foreshadow 6 and as such get a crapshot at industrialization but otherwise it's a somewhat unreliable card and i don't like it that much

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Clock - Echoes: Right - well the first thing clock does is that it splays your biggest color right,that alone would be pretty big but if your pile all have the same amount of card then clock can splay all your colors exactly like metric system but without the annoyance of sharing it with your opponent,that alone is pretty big but then comes clock second effect,your opponent draws three 10 and then you steal all the cards of age equal to the number of clock shown from his score pile and hand,this can lead to huuuuuuuuuge shift of power as your opponent suddenly has no more score or cards in hand and you suddenly have a score of 40,note that clock most probable number are 3,4 and 5 so the best scenario involve either when the opponent has tons of different value or at least big quantities of one of those three numbers

Toilet - Echoes: Right - Toilet has the chance of being as good as vaccination,unfortunately the highest bonus on your board is a quite fickly creature which changes a lot making this hard to use,not to mention that by this point that bonus also tends to not be 1 which also decrease the value of this card,the other effect let you tuck a 4 (okay) and trade a card in your hand for another (usefull for shifting through echoes card) it's good when it works but it usualy won't work and even when it works it's not as good as clock

Shuriken - basicaly it's Societies,it comes earlier but also steals castle which you probably don't want (barring the occasional fermenting that's it) it's okay

Splaying

Globe - Splaying 3 colors in a single action is nice but by this point you either have a bunch of color already splayed left or probably want to start splaying right (barring some amazing pile full of echoes effect that's it) which somewhat diminishing the value of the card... the foreshadow bonus is a nice effect as 6 is the number with industrialization and as we have estabilished in the basic section tucking massive amount of card is a huge advantage in echoes,the card also comes with factories symbols thus making the setting up for industrialization even easier

Kobukson - Echoes: Left/Up - Kobukson echo effect is basicaly flute in case you missed in the first place,by this time splaying right becomes more desiderable but kobukson also work on your opponent card and as such you can remove all their hard work by simply forcing them to splay right,the actual effect is sort of similiar to gunpowder,but they get to tuck a 4 in compensation and you get to tuck a 4 for every 2 cards removed... while i can see that number being decently high in a 3P game,in most 2P game that number will be either 1 or 0 making this card sort of bad outside of it's echo effect

Special

Telescope - Echoes:Left/Up - if you foreshadowed a lot of 2 or 3 trough ice skates,bell or err... bangle then this is your reward,telescope has the potential to let you achieve a lot of extra cards which is amazing but unfortunately it's somewhat hard and unpractical to use as a lot of the foreshadowing card pick high age card (although there is always the scenario where your opponent get to the high achievement before you of course) almanac is a nice crime in partner to telescope,get to a score of 50 then achieve twice all the 3,4 and 5 you have been pulling off... echoes effect that foreshadow are my favourite and this one is quite good that so even in the worst case the card is still worth melding for the echo effect
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 08:19:53 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:24 am »
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Age 5

age 5 has some really really good card (coke,palampore) and some really really bad stinkers (seed drill,tuning fork)

Scoring

Stove - Echoes: Left/Up - Stove is basicaly reverse coal,where coal loves to have your board full of high tech cards,stove love when you still have age 1 and 2 lying around,the scoring a top card part makes this even easier and if you keep scoring 4 and 5 it's not uncommon to get 8-9 with each stove application which is actualy pretty good,the scoring part remains with you even after overmelding the card although i really can't think of many yellow effect that synergize well with it

Palampore - well the card already comes with a bonus of 5 so if you already have a bonus of 5 this can score you 5 for free... and really that's all there is to say about this card,like machine tools it's easy to accumulate score with it and then just bring in the achievements,as an added bonus it splays your purple pile and it makes getting wealth easier

Piano - Echoes: Right/Up - well this let you draw a card from any age that is present in a player hand,the possibilities are nice but chance are you still want to draw from the highest age possible (and catch up with an opponent who teched up,the effect is not even a demand so it can't be stopped) now the reason for the first effect is to help you with the second effect,if all your top cards have different value then you score a card for every value you have... this basicaly means 15 point in the worst case (1,2,3,4,5) and 39 point in the best one (10,9,8,7,5) those are pretty big number but truth to be told i've seen piano second effect working only once! even when the effect works it's not spammable as you have to return 5 card from your score pile thus making for an incredibly situational card,the drawing part is still nice enough to play the rest of the card and it's even splayable in your pile and if you get it with bell and flute,you win as soon as you get saxophone (from age 7) so overall it's still a decent card

Drawing

Pressure Cooker - well the potential to draw a big amount of card is here much like paper,but getting a lot of bonus as top card can be hard as you can't draw a lot of echoes card and only half of them have a bonus,returning all your hand can be annoying as echoes hand tend to be bigger thanks to all the free draw actions that come from echoes effect,if you combine it with lighting rod it also tech you up... there is not a lot of else to says,when it works it's good but it doesn't work often

Board Building

Thermometer - Echoes: Right/Up - this is basicaly the retarded brother of printing press,instead of purple it's yellow,instead of two ages ahead it's one age ahead and instead of drawing it's melding oh and there is no score payment involved,printing press is a good card and unlike printing press this can be easily spammed so overall this is a good card,the only problem comes with it's echo effect which force you to meld your bottom green card,now sometimes this can be good (or you have no green pile and therefore don't care) but if you are just spamming this for the free melds you are bound to end up with a pretty messy green pile with clothing on top and metric system on the bottom... being an echo also means this annoying effect persist even after overmelding thermometer

Tuning Fork - Echoes: Right - Junkkkkkkkkkk,this is almost as bad Seed Drill,you give up multiple 5 in your hand then you have a chance at getting multiple free meld... why not just meld the 5 in your hand? or just use draw and meld card? the worst part is that if you fail you get nothing in return,the card just goes away,it can actualy hurt to use this card,the only positive thing about this card is that it turns your bad echoes into good echoes but when the card itself is a bad echoes there is not much you can do about it,isn't there? the echoes effect is laughable too,it's nice having info about what to expect but most of the time it will make absolutely no difference at all in the way you play

Coke - Echoes:Right - Coke is the power bomb of age 5,at first it doesn't looks like much,it just tucks 4 like toilet... so where's the deal you say? here is the deal,coke pulls industrialization out of the 6 deck and then pulls a bunch of factories to power up industrialization,then industrialization splay the pile right and *BAM* you get coke echo effect,suddenly you find yourself able to tuck around 4-5 per action,in echoes this is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE effect on par of massive scoring with metalworking and clothing and most of the time it will end the game by sole virtue of getting you wealth,history and heritage... like almanac,coke is one of those echoes card that can win on their own

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Lightining Rod - Echoes: Right - Lightining Rod is pretty nice,you get to tuck 2 cards and your opponent gets to return one of his top cards and tuck one for compensation,the removal part can snipe an annoying card and the tucking help with eventual domain achievements,still be carefull of opponent that only have small piles as you might risk giving your opponent a free 5

Seed Drill - most of the time Seed Drill is junk,basicaly it returns 2 and 1,at this point of the game the only 2 and 1 you are bound to see are math and fermenting and good luck making a leaf demand to a fermenting engine,therefore the demand is just plain stupid... the other effect is to make a 3,4 or 5 avaiable as an achievement again and it can be decent... these number are still low enough to be in the "almost reasonable" to score twice so the card can actualy help if you are ahead on achievements,still if you don't have the score to achieve or the 3,4 and 5 deck are empty this card does NOTHING,it doesn't even come with a bonus like puppet,can you seriously think of a worse card?

Octant - Steals a leaf or a factory,stealing factories is good,stealing leaves can stop score screwing and/or fermentation,the compensation is a foreshadowed card,way better than giving your opponent free score with banking,overall a good card

« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:13:08 am by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:30 am »
+1

Age 6

the 6 echoes deck is pretty good although if you are playing echoes you really want industrialization so you might not want to draw too many age 6 card anyway

Scoring

Hot Air Balloon - Echoes: Right/Up - ehy it's atomic theory! and it scores 7! and achieve card from your opponent board! frankly this card is amazing,the scoring a 7 part would be worth alone but when you get the tech up meld on top of it OR the free achievement you have a pretty powerfull combination,one nice trick you can pull with the card is to use it,give it to your opponent then steal it back with societies/shuriken,you get to achieve stuff and they get nothing,just be carefull that your opponent has no other card to give to you other than hot air balloon

Shrapnel - Shrapnel count both as board screwing and a scorer,it's basicaly a dumber and randomer version of mobility but well here's the thing,mobility is amazing and this card can hit EVERYTHING without looking at any red card or factory symbol,as such shrapnel it's a pretty good card

Dentures - Echoes: Right - coal with a random effect,i like coal so this is a decent card,unlike coal it can be used to meld as it won't eat from pile that contains only 1 card so it can be usefull to search for card too,decent card,the echoes effect tucks a card and it's exactly as all the other echoes effect,being yellow i guess it combines decently enough with canning

Board Building

Kaleidoscope - another atomic theory like card,this one splay random pile right,good effect all around

Loom - Echoes: Left/Up - Loom is Industrialization stupid brother,while trading 3 points (1+2) for 3 tucked cards is a good deal it is really hard to not see this card as a weaker,lamer version of industrialization,the thing that this card has over industrialization is that it scores card from your board as it tuck but as the card itself requires score to work,it's kind of a counterintuitive card... getting heritage with only 5 blank instead of 8 is a nice effect although

Tech Up

Stethoscope - Echoes: Right/Up - well it jumps you up to 7,if you have a blue card it jumps you to 8 instead,and really everything that was said by similiar card applies here,you get to the amazing 7 card first but also forfeit all the amazing 6 card,the melding echoes can be helpfull but at times it will be just annoying especialy when you are forced to meld a yellow which you didn't really wanted to meld

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Steamboat - well basicaly you have a 40% chance of being machinery a 40% of this being combustion and a 20% chance nothing happens,once again carefull looking at the board can help you decide (if both democracy and emancipation are out then you have nothing to fear for example) both machinery and combustion are good card but not being able to pick make this weaker than having both card avaiable at once,and giving your opponent a 6 can hurt especialy since you don't get your opponent card if he draws industrialization

Indian Clubs - it's homing pigeon without limitation! and it's good! if you have a hand with lot of different value it can also be a decent scorer but the demand effect is what you will use most of the times

Morphine - Echoes:Left/Up - well in some cases this can destroy a whole hand and being amazing and in other it does nothing and it sucks,if it takes a 7,it gives you a 8 (thus for example if you can somehow share stethoscope and then make the demand on your second action,it can be a nice 1-2 punch) it also scores odd valued card from your hand,by this point card are of high age enough that scoring one from your hand becomes a good way of scoring but i can't help but wonder why bell is still a better way to do so,it also splays red right if you missed all the card before it

Special

Bifocals - Echoes:Right - well it foreshadows card and then if you don't like that card,it let you try again,it's a decent card searcher but as i said i don't really like card that just foreshadows,though of course since this card foreshadows ANY age that means it makes for an amazing combination with photography which let you jump to any age you want at will... searching card from your current age (so age 6 most probably) is a decent idea but you might think of trying to search on age 7 too,that's it because age 7 features the best score stealer/screwing of all the game

« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 11:46:21 am by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:36 am »
0

Age 7

Age 7 has the second best echoes card in Elevator and another bunch of decent cards in Photography,Jeans,Telegraph and Rubber

Drawing

Typewriter - eeeehhh not a fan,if your opponent has higher tech in multiple color that probably means you are losing or got really really lucky in teching up,even when it works it's just drawing you one card as you need to discard one to get two in a way similiar to antibiotics (though at least it turns your 1 into 7) i guess in 3P games it's easier to abuse but in 2P one it's just sort of lame

Saxophone - well this card is highly dependant of having card from previous age so it tethers between "eh" and "woah!" if somehow you end up gaining bell,flute and piano then congratulation,you just won the game but... well... in all my echoes game i have never seen this happen,while bell and flute are easy to gather,piano ends up being missed most of the time... even then "draw three 7,score a card from your hand" it's a pretty amazing effect,so sure if you get at least one of the other instrument musical then this card is pretty good (especialy if it's bell) but otherwise it just splay your purple pile up

Board Building

Jeans - Echoes:Right - Jeans it's basicaly a draw and meld card,those are all good and nice but somehow the fact that this card draws and melds from lower age annoys me greatly... the other thing it does,is that it foreshadows a 9 of your choice,that can be abused with photography but even alone it's a pretty good effect

Rubber - Echoes:Right/Up - rubber tucks,score,and splays basicaly it does the same thing a lot of other card do,that doesn't mean it's a bad card,in fact it's a pretty good one but it's somewhat superflous

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Ice Cream - Echoes:Left/Up - Ice cream score from your board and well there is a tons of other card to do so,we discussed them already,this time the limitation is a card without a bonus,easy enough... the demand is that you force your opponent to meld a 1,yes just like shared sailing this demand can be hugely annoying and can stop a card that is kicking your ass  but it's pointless if your opponent has certain cards that can control his board (canning and machine gun come in mind) and pretty random in itself... the last effect is that you get to achieve a 6,7,8 or 9... by this point these number are to big to be achieved multiple times barring some fermenting/bicycle dickery so it mostly let you catch up on achievement you missed

Machine Gun - Echoes: Up - well there are two way to use machine gun,the first is that you are in the factories lead and then use the demand effect to kill all their bonus card,some bonus card are dangerous (like elevator) so the effect can be worth the use,the other alternative is that you share the effect and your opponent is forced to return all his non-red card,so in the end one way or another you are screwing your opponent board,of course at the same time you are screwing your board too and if you share your opponent is also getting free 7 in his score pile which isn't cool at all but usualy one single application is all you need,the echo effect let you score 7,it's not as easy to get as hot air balloon but equaly as cool

Elevator - ah elevator is the king of the score screwer,basicaly if you have a 1 in your score then you get to steal all the 1 and if you have a 3 you get to steal every 3,elevator steal both from score pile and hands so no place is safe,even if you evacuate all your cards trough the use of bicycle or canal building elevator will still find them,the added echoes effect of scoring a green card makes the card even more dangerous as you can just score a value you don't have in your score pile and then use that to steal opponent cards,amazing,amazing,amazing card

Fertilizer - Feh,this card is echoes statistic,just sort of pointless and stupid,at least it's not a demand effect so it can be used even when you have less leaves,the foreshadow part is identic to bifocals so the same thing said for bifocals apply to fertilizer

Splaying

Telegraph - say your opponent got flight,pretty annoying for him to have all his piles splayed up uh? well no more! thanks to telegraph you instantly catch up with your opponent as far as splaying goes which makes this card amazing,as an added bonus it ends up splaying your blue pile up no matter what

Special

Photography - Echoes: Right - Photography basicaly let you cheat with foreshadows card,if you used jeans then you now are to age 9 and if you used bifocals,congratulations for getting 10,even if you aren't jumping in tech melding a card while taking a card from the opponent board is a quite nice advantage which makes this a pretty good card as long as you bothered to forecast a sizeable number of cards

« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 07:42:14 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:44 am »
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Age 8

the Age 8 card are all good and as such it's a pretty solid age at which you can draw card,of course you might end up other bomb from the base deck (mobility for example) by drawing from the 8 echoes deck so try to consider that

Scoring

Tractor - Echoes: Right - Drawing + Scoring is pretty powerfull and so is this card,the effect is quite simply and doesn't come with any trick to it so really it's just a matter of using it,drawing and scoring... the only thing you might want to watch is that it eats at the age 7 deck pretty quickly and you risk leading an opponent into getting to 8 before you can do so,the drawing also continue after overmelding the card for all the purpouse of the card

Sliced Bread - Echoes: Right - Sliced Bread draws you two 8 if you have no cards in hand,like similiar card it's okay but not really amazing either,the other effect let you return a card in your score pile to score 2 from the previous age,and... if the previous age has no cards then this turn into machine tools,and if it doesn't then this is worse than machine tools,now machine tools is a good card and drawing card is nice too but you'd except more bang from age 8,the draw two 8 is actualy an echo effect and persist after playing the card and i guess it can be annoying to forfeit your hand everytime you trigger your green pile

Drawing

Crossword - well if you got wealth,this draws you 8 card,that's... pretty big,and the card it draws are all of different values and can therefore fed up lighting or antibiotics,even in the worst case it still draws you an 8 and another card which is still quite decent

X-Ray - Echoes: Up - i'm not going to talk over the echo effect since it's the same as many other card so let's talk about other one... it's basicaly fermenting... you don't have to be scared of having all your card stolen,but at the same time there is no good way to score them,you do get to execute any of them when you want which is actualy pretty awesome,the card also splay your yellow pile up and ehy! that's the pile with all your leaves!

Board Building

Nylon - well it tuck less card than industrialization on average but it also the potential to tuck more,as i said multiple times industrialization is awesome but i'm not sure about this card because the chance of industrialization happening before this are pretty high,splaying your red pile up is awesome,cause that's where all your industries are

Tech Up

Radio Telescope - it's empiricism V2! this one is less strict on his bulblight requirement but it basicaly requires you to remove some of the 9 cards,thus giving a purpouse to all those card that foreshadows a card of any value

Score/Board Stealing/Screwing

Bandage - Echoes: Right/Up - Bandage is weird... first of all it's the only red card you'll ever see with leaves on it,then it melds card with leaves... this can help you beating your opponent in leaves before using the demand effect but otherwise it's a pretty odd effect especialy coming from a red card,most of the card most that comes with a leaf on them tend to be yellow or purple so consider that... then it returns a card from your opponent board and one from your opponent score,so basicaly it's anatomy,unlike anatomy it returns the highest score card and it returns a card with a clock on it (so it can return elevator and rocketry) it's also the only score screwing red card i can think of,the score part is sort of weak when you think statistic does the same thing but eliminating clock is worth it,the echo effect is not optional and as such you risk overmelding your yellow pile with a junk card depending on other stuff you have on your red pile (candles for example can screw your plan)

Parachute - it's machinery but it trades the fact that it's harder to block with a somewhat annoying weakness and it comes later in the game,thumbs up i guess?

Air Conditioner - Echoes: Right/Up - yay the echoes is bell effect! why it only comes up again so late in the game? the other effect is not as devastating as elevator but still quite nasty,all your opponent score card are probably forfeit the instant this hit but sometimes depending on your opponent board (or with some help from enterprise) your whole score ends up going back,while not as good as mass media,it is at least better than rocketry
 
Special

Television - Echoes: Left/Up - the draw and meld is nice but not the main attraction,the main attraction is that if your opponent has achieved a bunch of age before you then it's finaly time to screw his board by melding card he doesn't want,remove some of his score and catch up on achievement,television is awesome and if your opponent has achieved 1 and has a bunch of 1 in his score pile then it probably just won you the game


« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 07:41:31 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:51 am »
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Age 9

Age 9 card tend to be odd although some of them let you score big a-la age 10 base card,notable one include laser (kills achievement) rock (wins you the game when the planet aligns) ATM (easy scoring) and Karaoke (not computer)

Scoring

Calculator - Calculator totaly destroys your board but it has the potential of scoring up to 20 points,and it nets you 2 bonus card,which also include 10,it's a good finisher but be carefull of not eating symbols that you might need,and remember that you can't eat from the blue pile

Credit Card - Echoes: Right - the foreshadow is a nice bonus although by this point there isn't much need for echo effect,so the other effect is that you return a card and score a card from the same value and it's more or less the same thing that coal does,by all means this it's good especialy since if you return a 9 then you instantly have a card to meld to play your new foreshadowed card but it's not as explosive as other card

Helicopter - well this count both as removal or as a scorer,if you use it to score it can score your whole board a-la genetics but to make it work so it takes a huge hand and after you're done it leaves you with no card and no board,truly a pretty lame situation,in a pinch it can be used to remove an annoying opponent card,pretty awesome

ATM - Echoes:Up - well scoring a 10 is what A.I does and it's pretty good,in a pinch when drawing a 10 would end the game,this card can also scores you something else so once in a blue moon the ability to score any card instead of just 10 can help you,otherwise scoring different value can be decent fodder for minituarization or it can help with human genome,if you are into that sort of things,the other effect is that it steal a card,unfortunately it's a pretty wide array of card so chance are your opponent will just give you his most junky card

Board Building

Karaoke - Left/Up - it's basicaly reverse computer,this card can be anything and as such it's actualy pretty hard to judge... of course the most obvious thing to do would be to pull 8 or 9 if you can fulfill either empiricism/radio telescope or collaboration/rock but otherwise you are probably going to pick just another 9,the meld effect is the echo part of card but seriously by this point there isn't a lot of chance to overmeld this card

Wristwatch - Wristwatch is basicaly super Watermill,as such the amount of card that you can tuck is pretty big but by this point it's pretty late in the game and you've already passed all the good tuck card like nylon,rubber and industrialization

Tech Up

Laser - Laser is probably the best tech up card in that it removes all the age achievements,yeeeeeeeeeeep,no more worrying about your opponent claiming 7 or 8,there are no more 7 and 8 to claim anymore,melding two 10 instantly it's also pretty good,unlike computer you don't risk fuck ups and since you draw double the chance of you finding something to win the game increase

Jet - Echoes: Right/Up - well it melds with it's somewhat superflous echo effect and then kills annoying card so thereoticaly it's all good but in truth i've rarely seen this come into play,by the time jet rolls someone has probably won the game already,really the true value of the card is the 10 bonus and how it interacts with stuff like crossword and almanac

Special

EMail - Echoes: Right - well you foreshadow twice and that's nice and you don't get to share your toys... i don't have much experience with this card but self service similiar effect rarely matters so i doubt this one is much better,at least it's target is forced so while sharing self service can be annoying i see no hurt (well except the foreshadowing 2 card part) into sharing this one

Rock - well it kills green cards but i can't think of too many green cards you want to kill (satellites i guess?) thereoticaly it can win you a game but i've never,ever seen it happens,oh and it scores card from your board... it doesn't sounds bad but so far i've never seen it having much impact on the board




« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 08:08:06 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 09:50:58 am »
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Age 10

and lastly comes age 10,age 10 features a host of insta-win card and unlike the base one these tend to not blow up in your face,the other are built so that you really end up claiming the last achievements you are missing and lastly there is a bunch of weirdo one

The Insta-Win Group

Human Genome - Human Genome wins you the game when your hand and score pile match exactly,that's it if your score pile contains only a 1,then your hand has to contain only a 1 and if your pile has a pair of 6,then your hand as to contain a pair of 6,to make this easy human genome let you optionaly score a card from any age and then FORCE you to take a card from your board,so try to have them match... human genome is probably the hardest of the new insta-win card but it's still pretty possible to pull off (at least compared to saxophone and rock) as long as both your score pile and hand are both empty

Puzzle Cube - Puzzle Cube wins you the game when your splayed pile have all the same amount of cards or you have no pile splayed,of all the insta-win card this is the easiest one,use puzzle cube,remove card from your splayed pile until you have no splayed pile,puzzle cube is probably the biggest incentive to tech up in an echoes game

Social Network - Social Network wins you the game if you suck in icons,the other part works sort of like mass mobility but if you use the effect you might score but you might not win the game,as such social network is a good pal to card that execute only non-demand effect like self service and robotics as you don't give your opponent a chance

Sudoku - up to now,nobody has ever won by sudoku,that's how hard is it to win with sudoku,the ability to meld any card is awesome but probably you are bound to meld a 10,that's it unless you already have eight different bonus value,in that case consider that most of the card have a bonus value equal of their age or one higher,so if you are missing a bonus of 6 and 7 try to pick an age 6 card for example

The Achievement One

Artificial Heart - double your score for the purpouse of claiming an achievement! straightforward,powerfull and nice all over around

MP3 - well by the time this is out the chance of there being more than two age achievement is pretty low so it's not really usefull,if you have artificial heart or sudoku on the board it can end the game though

The Weird One

Flash Drive - can actualy be much better than database,it also combo pretty nicely with hot air balloon as you score a 7 and then return another card from your score pile,also the 10 (both base and echoes) deck has no other card that can splay up other than this and cellphone

GPS - well it "draws" you three 10 and that's good but on it's own it doesn't do much

Camcorder - probably the worst 10,it's sort of like a classification that target 9 instead of card of a single color,but here's the thing... you are in age 10 now and some card in the 10 deck are going to win you the game,why still worry about 9?

Cellphone - Internet lame brother,like internet it can end the game,unlike the internet it doesn't score,i'd rather have internet but this one is not too bad,also the only 10 card that can splay up together with flash drive
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 08:27:05 pm by teasel »
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2013, 05:21:57 am »
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Base Cards to Look Out In Echoes Games

Masonry - one of the new achievements require you to have 3 of the same symbols on all your pile,a lot of age 1 card comes with 3 castle and as such is it possible to gain it simply by playing a combination of them,this combination can also be melded in a single swoop with masonry netting you two achievements with a single action

Math - Math can now be forcefull shared if you are able to splay an echo effect in your blue pile,as an added bonus there are more insta-win option and all of them are easier to achieve the more time you spend teching up and the less time you spend doing other stuff

Industrialization - tucking in echoes game is important,industrialization is the biggest tucking card of all the game

Measurement - piles in echoes game tend to get bigger as there are more cards,as such measurement can often end the game by hitting a 11+ card pile

Collaboration - Ditto as measurement

Gunpowder and Engineering - they get to kill Noodles
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 09:54:59 am by teasel »
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Hideyoshi

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2013, 06:27:56 am »
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Oh, you have written a good article, but your topic is quite similar to what I am writing...

anyway, thank for your great content!
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theory

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2013, 09:12:23 am »
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Oh, you have written a good article, but your topic is quite similar to what I am writing...

It's OK!  Write your own and then I can try to synthesize them.
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Hideyoshi

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2013, 01:07:51 pm »
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Oh, you have written a good article, but your topic is quite similar to what I am writing...

It's OK!  Write your own and then I can try to synthesize them.

Good, but I still need some time for my writing anyway. Echo is much more than base to write...
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teasel

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2013, 02:35:08 pm »
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Oh, you have written a good article, but your topic is quite similar to what I am writing...

It's OK!  Write your own and then I can try to synthesize them.

Good, but I still need some time for my writing anyway. Echo is much more than base to write...

i wrote the thing whole without thinking much but maybe a separate section for echoes effect would be better? a lot of them just says "draw X" or "tuck X" and it's annoying having to repeat each time what is the advantage and disadvantage of drawing X/tucking X
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Kahryl

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Re: Echoes Guide
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 04:35:00 pm »
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This is a really good primer on the echoes cards, I don't feel like I'm completely lost and blinking every time they're melded or drawn now!
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